last day (3781 days later) » 

9:07 PM
Okay, I have made a Rebol room. Look, I am talking in a Rebol room.
 
9:34 PM
Good things are afoot in the Rebol community right now, in my opinion. Their adoption of Git + GitHub, if they really go through with it, is the most mainstream move they're making in a long time.
When we have an RSS feed of the Mezzanine checkins and comment on lines in those checkins... it really is a new world.
 
10:34 PM
Hello fellow room member Che. :)
As the Rebol community is quite small, and I'd know your name probably... perhaps you are just curious about why someone would bother to make a room about this language. It's cool though. :)
Er, hm, wait maybe I should have said @ChristianEnsel
That ties into their notification system I think.
 
Hehe.... I suggested Git a month ago and Carl created the source control group for that.
And then he forgot and created the R3 source control group!
Now who named this chat room fringe ex-Amiga ??
 
Me. :)
 
why the deprecating name? Ashamed of your Rebol affiliations?
 
Rebol is freaky, and if you're not into branding yourself (at least a bit) as a freak... Rebol's not for you.
 
I'm not a freak ...
 
10:48 PM
Admitting you have a problem is the first step :)
 
lol
You've got a problem .. don't use transference!
 
Most of the languages I use are freaky. C++? Jeez, who uses that anymore.
I programmed in Ruby for the first time recently and there was nothing new under the sun, but, at the same time... it wasn't the uphill battle that Rebol is when you want to get something done.
Despite its ho-hum nature.
 
Ok, back on topic .. I've been reading a bit about flow based programming. Is this something we can do in R2 without multi-threading?
 
Hadn't heard of it, but reference link I'm reading is of course wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow-based_programming
 
It seems each actor seems to need its own thread or process
 
10:51 PM
Reminds me of AVS modules.
 
think unix pipes and shell scripts i think
 
You'd write these boxes, and they were each run in their own processes. Color coding represents the data types on inputs and outputs.
And basically, it would kick off a box whenever its inputs were all fulfilled.
 
sort of
Chrome is so buggy ..it prevents me from cut and pasting
 
Hm? I'm using chrome, cut and paste works fine. (OS/X on this particular machine)
 
jpaulmorrison.com/fbp
well, I am having to type manually
maybe it's a bug exclusive to windows 7
 
10:56 PM
Hm. Well, I have my own programming paradigm shift which I should probably unleash to the world except that I am lately focusing on my move to Maui in Hawaii and surfing and drinking umbrella drinks :)
 
eh? going to live with Reichart??
 
I don't think people actually care so much about doing things right, from my observations.
Well, Brandyn and Garrett are there
Dunno if you know them.
 
Maui is only a few thousand k from me
Nope ...
 
But yes, I'll stay with Reichart a bit and decide if the lifestyle is for me and if I want to arrange a longer term.
You're in China? So like 3k miles ? :)
 
No ! In NZ
 
10:58 PM
Closer
 
People eventually will do the right thing if it is more productive
 
Are you native NZ? I am trying to figure out how, if I can, to work internationally.
 
that's evolution
Am I indigenous?? No, not a Maori
Our family has been here since the gold rush of the 1870s
 
I will be sure to not mention Rebol on my resume. :)
 
sad
that one actually has to have a resume!
 
11:01 PM
It is a bit sad that I'm one of the most knowledgable Rebol programmers. I am also one of the least knowledgable. :)
Such is the case with small communities.
 
maybe we can fake multithreading using custom events
 
Don't know if you saw, but Douglas Crockford, the JSON guy, recently gave Rebol a nod at a conference...
 
he based JSON on Rebol blocks
He admits that
 
Unfortunately most of us still have to deal with XML instead of JSON
 
11:03 PM
Had a personal exchange w/him where he basically said yes, Rebol is great tech, but he cares more about community and influencing the world.
 
pragmatist
 
I feel that. Felt it when I tinkered with Ruby lately. You really get a very different experience, and Rebol is like... this neat machine but you are stabbing yourself in the eye by virtue of using it and it's not a good feeling...
But this recent opening up to GitHub, I dunno, maybe it could trigger an awakening of some kind ?
 
The Github thing is something Andreas and I have been planning a long time
I do like the idea of sharing code fragments too in that link you posted ...
which I don't want to retype
 
Well in the past, when Rebol has gotten on a bandwagon (like Twitter) I think Carl has done more damage than good by badmouthing it. So far he's not been dissing git, and I do think there's more core tech in it to the point where he won't go south on it, but you can't ever tell...
He said he liked Chrome for a while, then he reneged...
 
We even have our own Jira instance for the hostkit
but looks like doc is back to maintaining curecode again ...
I don't recall any bandwagon .. for Twitte
r
 
11:09 PM
Well, I do think that "drinking one's own wine" is healthy, but the simple fact is that Rebol has too few developers trying to reimplement every piece of software in the toolchain.
 
AFAIK, Carl still uses Twitter ... but is back to using the web interface since they enforced oauth
 
I pointed out that even the rails-based GitHub uses a python-based syntax highlighter.
 
He has to stay true to his philosophy
I see that Groove guy called complexity evil
 
Yes, well, it's part of what's kept Rebol interesting... but you mention multitasking, look at object modifying its spec block: rebol.net/wiki/Talk:Scoping_in_Rebol
The module stuff is a step forward, no doubt, but... multitasking? Rebol has been slipping deadlines and it doesn't have to be that way.
Their model is messaging, run a bunch of Rebol instances, exchange Rebol data, the end.
TASK! is doa.
 
Curious since Carl made his name writing a multi-tasking kernel
 
11:21 PM
A serious approach to multi-core, multithread programming would set Rebol 3 back at least another year, because it's just not designed for it.
And they're too timid about changing the slightest thing if it breaks compatibility, for the 10 people who use Rebol, when they should be thinking more about the millions who currently do not...
Most people who use Rebol use R2, and Rebol 3 is basically invisible to them.
The only real feature in R3 that matters to anyone who'd use it is Unicode.
 
somewhere there he says complexity will kill us all
From my POV, the main improvement I'm looking for is a decent GUI
That would be the main reason for me to jump to R3 from R2
I'm not interested in unicode
 
A month ago Microsoft looked pretty dead, whoever's in charge of their PR is doing a good job because they jumped back into relevance somehow against all odds.
 
R3 makes writing network protocols very easy which is another plus
I'm not interested in whether millions use R2/3 ... just as long as I can keep using it!
 
Well... I just see some wasted potential, sometimes... Rebol is really cool and people overlook it, and I think that's a shame.
 
another rebol chat venue! :)
 
11:29 PM
I don't need external validation of my choices
 
Especially given how much work goes into making deployments for it, you can run it on damn near anything...
 
ephemeral chat
 
R2 yes, R3 not :)
 
or is this chat being logged ?? :(
 
yeah
 
11:30 PM
It's not so ephemeral, totally logged and archived...
 
there's a "full transcript" link at the top. full transparency here :)
still a very sleek system, though :)
 
Hover over a chat message and note that among things you can do is to star a post, on the right you'll see a list of messages starred by people... click on the link and read that note in context.
 
ok, no more criticisms of anyone!
 
I'm a firm believer in the idea that society must adapt to accept transparency, and that people change, and that their opinions change. It's coming!
 
I can't star my own posts!
 
11:32 PM
fortunately! otherwise you'd spam us all :)
 
Facebook and company are pioneering that, and it's bleeding into systems like this one, and we are running into a few dangerous scenarios regarding reputation-selling (like World of Warcraft gold, etc.)
 
sell reputation points??
 
I'm sure it's happened.
 
swap SO points for WoW gold?
 
don't star me, you!
 
11:34 PM
I'm not so sure that's happened :)
 
i'll vanish again into the silence of my IRC channel
 
ok, I need to delete messages
 
where i'm the only one who's doing the logging!
 
Going to flag yourself as offensive or off-topic?
 
when are we getting on topic?
 
11:35 PM
Anyone working on any Rebol code lately?
I got an inkling to do a 6502 assembly dialect, I've gotten interested in these hacker "tool-assisted-speedruns"
 
many small bits here and there
 
So decompiling NES games, and turning them into documented codebases, as part of a reverse-engineering effort kind of crossed my mind.
 
sadly all the time
 
For fun. But this Rebol git implementation idea, given that git is a standard, has gotten me into a competitive mindset...
 
Has Carl managed to push anything yet?
Can he delay till Chaos 1 ?
 
11:37 PM
today is A110 bugfix day (afaiu)
 
Dunno if you guys saw my "whitespacers"but I think Rebol can totally win here: github.com/hostilefork/whitespacers
 
basic git impl would be really fun to do
the hard thing is a CLI, though
as in really really hard
the vast majority of the git codebase is user-facing ui stuff
and then there's the question if you want to re-invent an incompatible CLI, or stick to mainline git wherever possible
 
what's the point of rewriting the cli stuff in R2?
 
If people would just pull together and each take on a part of the implementation and work as (gasp) a team... I think a Rebol git would come together quickly.
 
that would go against the grain
 
11:40 PM
And the interesting bit would be to compare the byte size of it, and I think git users would be impressed if Rebol just followed through with its design
 
you're not understanding what's left of the rebol community
 
people who are attracted to rebol are individuals who don't work in groups :)
 
Yes and I've gotten in angry tirade rants about this with Kaj etc.
 
not necessarily. but the interests in this group are extremely diverse
 
People who just do not want to compromise in any way and work through things with logic and a broader sense.
 
11:41 PM
too few users and not enough with intersecting needs
 
precisely, graham
i, for example, could not care less about the whole R3 gui stuff
 
In the meantime, look at how fun it is to be in all these other communities. This StackOverflow chat site, sure is nice... but... uh, AltME? Seriously?
 
NIH ...
 
And said by someone who wants to lodge at Reichart's place in Maui!
 
still, i sense an opportunity in the whole altme-fetish
 
11:43 PM
Reichart agrees :)
 
if someone would write an open altme-style frontend to, say, irc in R3, that would stir some people's interest
 
Eh? His company started the Altme thing
safeworlds
 
The AltME thing comes from people who want a full Rebol stack, Qtask and StackOverflow and whoever else say "we don't care, send it to an iPhone" which is even more pragmatic than I.
SafeWorlds is as I understand it a joint venture and the story is more complicated if you know the peeps involved.
 
Altme allows us to keep private chats which can be zapped!
 
Whether you want them to be or not :)
 
11:46 PM
we need to zap this as well :)
SO overlords help us!
 
All languages, doesn't matter which one... C++, Python, Perl... you name it... the people pushing forward the designs have disagreements.
 
@HostileFork ..and Amiga isn't?
 
@PeterWAWood Isn't what?
 
@HostileFork: click on the small arrow link and you'll see :)
 
Ah, using, the features of the system. Tricky.
 
11:51 PM
Anyway, if anyone has some ideas on how to do a FBP implementation ....
 
I'm trying to figure out how to make you guys room administrators, and I... dunno if I can't find the function or if there's some rep issue
 
this is beta or alpha?
 
@HostileFork I replied to your earlier post - it seems a reply sin't any different from a new post.
Freaky
 
I only just heard of this yesterday.
It's good for "something I just saw" but I imagine they've been messing with it a bit to get it here, so whatever they're calling it, I'll say beta.
 
In fact I personally find all the Amiga cult stuff in Rebol much more freakish than the language.
 
11:53 PM
The Amiga stuff is distracting, but it is part of the cultural identity in a sense.
 
It allows some of us to identify as a sub group within the slightly larger rebol users group
 
I had an Amiga 2000, acquired for free long after its heyday, but it was a nice machine.
Just a curiosity when I got it though
 
So, we can say "Carl, you did multi-tasking 25 years ago on Amiga, how come we don't have multithreading yet?"
 
So that frames my picture of this idea that it might make a resurgence, I'm kind of like "uh, really?" It seemed like every other old computer.
 
because you're in the wrong context
 
11:56 PM
Games and graphic demos were ahead of their time, sure.
Is my context "wrong", though? I mean, pac man was a great game... and still is... iconic. But we have moved on.
 
When the IBM PC XT was reigning, and hercules sceens common .. we had the Amiga 1000
 
Well the market is persnickety. $10 MSRP difference can make a big difference, you have to have the right product at the right time at the right price with the right network.
I'm disappointed at what the market has chosen, but at the same time, we are seeing certain kinds of evolution.
 
If only they had memory protection it could have gotten a long way further into the business market
 

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