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12:03 AM
Well, it's interesting I suppose if you can talk to MySQL over a network connection to have a pure usermode driver. That is distinct from ODBC. Not a bad thing to have and study.
@rgchris I went ahead and on the non-stackless branch did the SET changes. I guess the next thing to decide is on the GET-WORD! and VOID! issue. I'm game to say that's an error as in Rebol2 and have people who really intend to deal in VOID! use GET/ANY, though for performance we might want to make GET* a native that does the same thing...so you're not paying for path processing.
I think the fact that GET-WORD! would let you get UNSET! went under the radar for many (Rebol2 users seem surprised it does that in R3-Alpha/Red) and I don't see any issue where the change was debated.
@MarkI or @kealist or @Edoc or anyone around who wants to weigh in on it please do so now
I'll give it a shot and see what it messes up, or fixes.
 
12:52 AM
FWIW, Ren-C booted without incident given the change. GET-WORD! of VOID! is not something the boot process is apparently contingent on. So there is a data point.
It's a lot of code.
For completeness, the console needs to be "full bandwidth" and it had saved the last value as last-result: :v. But changing that to last-result: get/any 'v is not particularly problematic. It's better than set/any 'last-result get/any 'v, and having to be very clear that you know you might be doing a typo is good.
We've discussed that ideally, the best way to avoid typos is to use module-style rules, where typos are actually unbound.
 
1:18 AM
        ; print the first 20 lines of the first 2048 characters of mold
        ;
        pos: molded: mold/limit :v 2048
        loop 20 [
            pos: next (find pos newline else [break])
        ] then [  ; e.g. didn't break
            insert clear pos "..."
        ]
        print [result (molded)]
^-- that is pretty cool, and one of those nice comforts of voidification.
Doesn't actually need molded as written, could just print [result (head pos)], but I think it makes it clearer to separate them.
 
1:59 AM
Hrm. If array/initial [2 4] 'foo is [[foo foo foo foo] [foo foo foo foo]], then what should array/initial [] 'foo be?
Right now it's an error, but an array with no dimensions being NULL seems sensible.
Whereas array/initial [0] 'foo would give you [], array/initial [] 'foo giving NULL seems better than erroring. It also helps in terms of a base case of the recursion that the routine uses (which is why I'm mentioning it).
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE I'm good with what's proposed
 
It's looking good to me so far (trying it out, looking at what broke).
So far the breaking situations are cases that can be more clear when rewritten.
 
2:29 AM
    rest: if block? size [
        next size else [return null]
        also [
            if not integer? size: size/1 [
                fail 'size ["Expect INTEGER! size in BLOCK!, not" type of size]
            ]
        ]
    ]
So this is interesting, because it ordinarily sets REST to NEXT SIZE, but if the block was at the tail, it returns NULL... and the ALSO clause is like a THEN clause which runs the code but evaluates to the non-null value that triggered it...
That means this code is the same as:
rest: if block? size [
    next size else [return null]
    elide (
        if not integer? size: size/1 [
            fail 'size ["Expect INTEGER! size in BLOCK!, not" type of size]
        ]
    )
]
Or if you aren't trying to plan for the future by giving places to put more statements:
rest: if block? size [
    next size else [return null]
    elide if not integer? size: size/1 [
        fail 'size ["Expect INTEGER! size in BLOCK!, not" type of size]
    ]
]
And the nice bit here is that REST gets set to NULL in the case that you weren't dealing with a BLOCK!, as that's the failed conditional result.
rest: null
if block? size [
    rest: next size else [return null]
    if not integer? size: size/1 [
       fail 'size ["Expect INTEGER! size in BLOCK!, not" type of size]
    ]
]
That's the boring version, which is probably clearer. :-)
But, nice to look through various possibilities that can come in handy when you actually need them.
    if block? size [
        rest: next size else [return null]
        if not integer? size: size/1 [
            fail 'size ["Expect INTEGER! size in BLOCK!, not" type of size]
        ]
    ]
    else [rest: null]
Multiple returns should hopefully make the "FIRST+" style less ugly. In fact, it could just be a refinement to NEXT seen as an output. [pos value]: next pos. If you don't ask for it, you don't get the value at the last position, but if you do then you get it.
But FIRST could go the other way, e.g. you use the NULLity of the return to terminate the loop, and get the position after. while [value? [val pos]: first pos] [...]
If you're sure your data has no #[false] or BLANK! in it, you could omit the VALUE? (e.g. NOT NULL?) test.
 
3:07 AM
array/initial [] 'foo could also be just foo. e.g. "make it a point of data, not an array at all"
 
3:27 AM
I'm going to keep array [] an error because I can't decide what it should do and I guess I'd like to see a compelling usage scenario for it. The error message says "file an issue if you think of a good meaning for this". But I'm making array _ return null.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:46 AM
posted on July 16, 2020 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: I feel comfortable with the step ahead (well, technically step back to Rebol2 semantics) on GET-WORD! of a VOID! raising errors. So GET-WORD! really is dedicated to the defusing of ACTION!s so that they do not run. With that hardened association, it makes me wonder if an associated concept might make sense...which is to cue people t

 
foo: func [x 'y '(z)] [
    print ["x:" mold x "y:" mold y "z:" mold z]
]

num: 1000

>> foo num num num
x: 1020 y: 1020 z: 1020

>> foo (num + 20) (num + 20) (num + 20)
x: 1020 y: (num + 20) z: 1020
I think the 'arg as literal parameter and '(arg) as escapable literal isn't bad. I wonder if there should be meanings for greater quoting levels?
foo: func [''x '''y '''(z)] [
    print ["x:" mold x "y:" mold y "z:" mold z]
]

num: 1000

>> foo num num num
x: 'num y: ''num z: ''num

>> foo (num + 20) (num + 20) (num + 20)
x: '(num + 20) y: ''(num + 20) z: ''1020
Not sure how useful the added quoting levels are. But, anyway, I do like the semiotics of the "it's quoted" juxtaposed with "groups play a part"
 
 
9 hours later…
2:51 PM
@rgchris This seems to do some encrypted connection to a MySQL dbase using Go, not the connection itself.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:05 PM
@iArnold Not so much, it's just for hashing credentials. It's just not clear why Doc's Rebol 2 code would work when it seems slightly at odds with the expected 32-bit bitwise behaviours. It's entirely possible I've just ported some code that contains workarounds that work around it actually working.
Though if I don't mind saying so myself (and hat doffed to Mr. Fork), it's a whole lot cleaner.
2
 
@rgchris Let's keep pushing the limits on what can be done...no ugliness left unquestioned!
 
5:40 PM
Cryptocurrency speculation has to be the most vacuous pursuit on the planet. It's all the banality of regular currency speculation, without any of the cool graphic design of bills or actual coin collectibility.
Even Beanie Baby speculation is more fun.
@rgchris I'm really interested to see your experience with using TRY. The subject came up in Red chat recently of the argument about why not to let NONE! pass through things like INDEX?, and I really do believe that the concept of NULL as "soft failure" combined with BLANK!-in-NULL out finesses this.
There's an optimization that if a parameter is marked as <blank> (name still debated) then the function is never called at all if that argument is BLANK!. The parameters are evaluated but it never gets executed...the evaluator just replaces it with NULL.
People constantly ask for a way to do this, and I think this strikes a very good balance.
 
6:31 PM
@rgchris "hat doffed"? as "Hats of to Larry"?
It is a lot cleaner.
 
6:59 PM
"developed in realtime" may be the wrong characterization of a language that was started in 2011 and still lacks fundamental features like I/O and isn't bootstrapped. Maybe "developed in bullet time" (as in the filming technique where a bullet moves so slowly you can watch it sort of inch along past you without any conscious change of direction, despite the world stepping quite cleanly out of its way).
Anyway, will be curious to see how long this follower lasts, it's interesting to watch.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:01 PM
from rebol/rebol or rebolsource/rebol? I think I did not even get Dc's version on R2 to work ;-)
Looking for a suitable R3
 
8:29 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Nice they found my videotutorials too! So Red could be called abandonware.
As soon as I got the MySQL working and the new name in use I will thank him for the reminder.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:01 PM
The Clock of the Long Now, also called the 10,000-year clock, is a mechanical clock under construction that is designed to keep time for 10,000 years. It is being built by the Long Now Foundation. A two-meter prototype is on display at the Science Museum in London. As of June 2018, two more prototypes are on display at The Long Now Museum & Store at Fort Mason Center in San Francisco. The project was conceived by Danny Hillis in 1986. The first prototype of the clock began working on December 31, 1999, just in time to display the transition to the year 2000. At midnight on New Year's Eve, the date...
 
@Edoc I saw the San Francisco prototype twice, once at the store, and they took it to a maker fair also.
 
11:48 PM
Another argument for using common terms NULL and VOID instead of NONE and UNSET... society already has to account for these terms and reserves them, due to problems like people getting the license plates NULL and VOID.
 

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