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3:47 AM
^-- I was reminded of this "bizarre" bazaar graphic. Wanted to put it on imgur where it might last longer.
 
4:19 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Don't forget we also need to better handle self-including structures: a: [a] | a/1: a | a = first a => #[true]
 
@MarkI That particular one seems to work in Rebol2, Red, Ren-C...
Panicked a bit because one of the more crazy tests broke in stackless. Less panicked now that I've narrowed the problem to just (elide 1) y: 2.
Something going on wrong with groups that turn invisible followed by SET-WORD!s. :-/
I liked that Golden Layouts site for IDE tabs/etc., but they point out a few other interesting ones, like PhosphorJS and wcdocker.
 
 
4 hours later…
8:29 AM
Some R3-Alpha code is really... urg. The WAIT native is implemented in terms of Wait_Ports() and Sieve_Ports()...
 
8:40 AM
Then Wait_Ports() is implemented in terms of Awake_System(). When you untangle all of this you find these are used nowhere besides WAIT. Really, it can all be folded together in a single straight-line native that makes it much more likely to be understood.
All that is pushed out so it's not included in the javascript build (it's the "life support" Event module for desktop) but it's still around, so unwinding it is something one either does or network code stops working. <shrug> Anyway, I've done so and simplified it and now it makes sense.
 
 
6 hours later…
2:49 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Yes. That particular example works. It is in fact practically the only one that does, though. Almost any variation fails miserably, like b: [[b]] b/1/1: b b = first b.
But I was really only talking about molding them better, because if a structure refers to two different parts of itself, they both get shown as "...." which is not great.
And I am not asking you to do the work either; I am only concerned that we don't do anything that would prevent or make more difficult such improvements.
 
3:47 PM
@MarkI Ick. Well that one seems to work in Red at least. If you can, come up with a list of these (or find their tests that cover the topic, if they've already done it) and I think it makes sense to go ahead and bear this in mind so long as these things are getting revisited.
 
4:08 PM
@MarkI Ren-C has a series "color" bit which could be used here... but if there is an error during the copy, you'd need to run what amounted to a GC to visit all the series nodes and clear the color bit out...as it wouldn't be cleared by the natural unwinding process.
 
4:36 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE I was thinking something like [a b c [duped] e f g @4 i j k] would be the result of a: [a b c [duped] d e f eighth-place h i j] | a/8: a/4 | a instead of the existing and misleading [a b c [duped] d e f [duped] h i j].
With concommitant @<1 2 7> or whatever for deeper self-references.
And the current form is more than misleading, it cannot be correctly read, which is what I am trying to fix here.
(Needless to say, MOLD/ALL does not do any better :)
So my original example (actually, both the a version and the b version, which create identical structures) would show as the concise [@].
Hmmm ... may have to think more on whether a and b are in fact identical. If not, b would show as [[@]], obviously.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:07 PM
@MarkI Hm. So you are suggesting something that could load in cyclical structures from text. The conventional wisdom on this is that if this is your need, you'd have to use a "binary" format...and you accept the imperfect nature of the textual projection. Because even if you solve cycles, you still aren't persisting binding.
 

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