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5:10 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE github.com/ahadik/git_mover looks potentially useful if you want to move issues + labels between repositories
 
 
3 hours later…
8:17 AM
Another battle? This would depend on your expectations too. Will the community grow fast once the new project is launched? Fossil can export to git and import as well. So anytime there will be a growing demand from the community slash potential contributors to go to git this will be possible. The strategy would be to 'own' the github username too off course and have that repo explain how to use the fossil.
(And indeed I know Kaj used it, that is why I know about its existence.)
This boy has the right mindset, striving for minimal solutions youtube.com/watch?v=N_ttw2Dihn8 perhaps he could learn about Rebol and rgchris' work on markdown.
And about git, yes I would understand sticking with that.
Poll: community members, do you find working with git and github easy?
 
 
2 hours later…
9:59 AM
@johnk It's possible to transfer repositories in GitHub to another organization, and they can be renamed. As you're the current owner, you should be able to do this in https://github.com/rebol/rebol-issues/settings.
While it's up to you, I feel that the existence of Oldes's copy means the only other person who's used the Git issues in all these years has a place for it...and it would be more favorable to transfer to get links forwarding, as well as not contribute to the impression that there's some Carl-endorsed place to submit feedback that no one is monitoring (rebol/rebol is enough trouble for that)
 
 
2 hours later…
12:03 PM
To whom it may concern: I've done some minor patching to get the FFI demos working again. I was curious how broken it was and it turns out it wasn't very broken, not much fixing needed.
There is an issue in having so much C code in these extensions with the stackless build, which is that the more things you try to do in C, the more responsible you become for making natives state machines to be stackless. Whereas if you are willing to break up your routine into some usermode prep that then passes control to C at the last minute to do the parts only C can do... you get stacklessness in that usermode code for free.
For instance, if you look at the WAIT command, it takes a BLOCK! that it wants reduced. amount: 1:00 | wait [amount] will thus work as intended. But if the native for WAIT is responsible for this reducing, it has to get its hands dirty with stacklessness. Alternatively, you can have a low-level WAIT* that expects the block to be already reduced, and then make WAIT a usermode ADAPT which pre-REDUCEs the block, and save the C code the trouble.
I mention all this because the FFI is an early example of a lot of code written to process a complex spec block in C, and it's the kind of codebase that is dependent on "stackful" routines that really should be gotten rid of.
In contrast, look at how the C99 COMPILE command for TCC is structured. You have a lot of maintainable usermode setup which only calls into C at the last minute with a COMPILE* call.
I mention all this because I'm on the fence about taking some time to do the same reworking to the FFI, vs. punting on it. Given that the FFI is working and I am familiar with it, it seems like it may be worthwhile...it's also a body of test code for advanced extension features. It's probably worth the day or two it should take to rewrite the excessive C code as easy usermode preprocessing.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:46 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE I'm not sure I understand completely. A native can't just call DO?
 
 
3 hours later…
4:34 PM
@MarkI That wouldn't be "stackless", you can't unwind past that. e.g. once you do that, you cannot yield from inside it, because you've got C stack frames that didn't go through the trampoline.
Writing a stackless native really is like making a state machine; you have to keep track of what you're waiting on in a state value somehow, push a frame to run, then C-return a signal for a continuation that runs that frame and calls back in to re-enter the native.
 
I find working with git very easy, once you get the logic and the commands become like reflexes. In my experience, contributing to someone else's project is far less intuitive than working yourself on your own project, though.

And about git sites, I favour *much* gitlab, rather than github, for two main reasons: gitlab is (from what is said, I didn't check myself) really free software.
 
4:50 PM
@Pierre According to Stallman, it wouldn't be "free" as in "freedom" due to MIT license, as it permits people to make derivatives that aren't themselves free: docs.gitlab.com/ee/development/licensing.html
I made a suggestion that at one point someone else made and seemed to be taken seriously... that FSF be changed to "Foundation for Software Freedom", instead of the more ambiguous (and probably intentionally misleading) "Free Software Foundation"
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Yes... Some argue that this is actually taking away the freedom to make something not free...
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE misleading?
 
Well I think there was a bit of a wish to "re-take" the word "free"--despite knowing its connotations, to try and make people stop equating "gratis" and "free"
 
The use of the «Libre» term is therefore more appropriate, although maybe it is a little bit less purely English.
 
5:22 PM
I think Stallman wanted people to start a conversation that whenever someone said "it's free" to make people come back with "but is it really 'free'"... but it never caught on, it was a lost cause that distracted from the mission. Accepting the loss of that word and moving to "freedom" or "libre" would be wiser.
When you have to keep correcting people with the ever more puzzling things like "free as in freedom, not free as in beer" (wait, is free beer a bad thing?) you should know you're likely barking up the wrong tree.
 
6:19 PM
With bit-tricks I think I can get up to '''@['''integer] in a single cell... if type of 10 comes back as a read-only @[integer]. Different trick than what I'd been planning on before, but similar.
 
6:58 PM
posted on July 09, 2020 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: So DATATYPE! and TYPESET! are historically strange. DATATYPE! has a very obvious rendering ambiguity: r3-alpha>> type? integer! == datatype! r3-alpha>> block: reduce [integer!] == [integer!] r3-alpha>> type? first block == datatype! r3-alpha>> type? first [integer!] == word! There is a proposal on the tab

 
7:17 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE There is no thing as a free beer... (or was that lunch?)!
Like the difference in 'freedom of religion' (in the constitution) vs 'freedom from religion' (not a fundamental right).
 
 
4 hours later…
10:50 PM
red>> s: ""
== ""

red>> loop 1000 [append s "["]
== {[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[...

red>> loop 1000 [append s "]"]
== {[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[...

red>> b: load s
*** Script Error: PARSE - stack limit reached
ren-c>> s: ""

ren-c>> loop 5000 [append s "["]
== {[[[[... (longer default print length)

ren-c>> loop 5000 [append s "]"]
== {[[[[... (longer default print length)

ren-c>> b: load s
== [[[[[[...
"Stackless" scanner. Which is actually not hard to do, I imagine Red could do it trivially; they probably just set an arbitrary limit for the sake of not making things too deep that the rest of the system wouldn't handle what got loaded.
In Rebol, PARSE was recursive at the C level, so takes a little bit more doing. Anyway, just getting rid of another un-catchable-in-Wasm mechanical stack overflow situation.
It's probably not a bad idea to set some default "are you sure you want to do that" limits in the environment for how deep a structure you want, or how deep a stack you want. But if you have the memory and it's what you want--you should be able to override it. And the interpreter should be able to gracefully handle the out-of-memory situations.
 

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