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1:13 AM
Okay, well I guess the best thing to do here is pretty much to read the RFC. So it appears that there are multiple elliptic curves out there; I'm not exactly sure how common 25519 is or how widely supported. The curve used is not part of the cipher suite...you use a "TLS extension" in the handshake to say which curves you have.
If you don't say which ones you have, then the server will just pick one for you. I don't know if we can get away with just doing 25519 or not? :-/
 
1:31 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE ECHDE-RSA is just the key exchange protocol. ECHDE is how (and how frequently) the keys are generated, and RSA is how the keys are signed. The cipher that encrypts the actual data AND the signature algorithm that is used to authenticate the data need to be further chosen, as in the RFCs.
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE 25519 is the one recommended
 
For example, AES in GCM mode can do both encryption and authentication at the same time, see tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5116.
 
Some of the other curves may have been recommended by NIST so that the NSA could crack them
 
And it can work under ECHDE-RSA or other key exchange protocols.
@GrahamChiu So who's recommending 25519? Are you sure it is not NIST? :)
 
@MarkI David Bernstein
 
1:34 AM
From what I've read, random elliptical curves provide the best security, but at a (slight) risk of inefficiencies.
@GrahamChiu And you know he is not paid by NIST because ... ?
 
40
Q: Why Curve25519 for encryption but Ed25519 for signatures?

SimonNaCl and libsodium libraries use Curve25519 for authenticated encryption (actually for sharing a key which is used for encryption) and Ed25519 for signatures. What is the purpose of using different primitives for these operations? Why just not to use the same primitive for both key-sharing and si...

 
"Supported Named Groups secp384r1, secp256r1 (server preferred order)"
@GrahamChiu ^-- that's what the server report came back from ssllabs. Which means the curve25519 is not supported by the forum.
 
I would be wary of "chosen x-coordinate" algorithms like 25519 that provide "faster multiplication". That is simply begging to be broken.
 
@MarkI he took the USA govt to include computer code as free speech
So, he has some history on his side
@MarkI it sounds like you know enough about this to implement it?
 
@GrahamChiu Yes I do.
 
1:38 AM
@MarkI So, what are you suggesting? And are you in the employ of the NSA?
 
@GrahamChiu I would provide a way to generate your own curve, equally secure to any other curve that you generate. There is no way that that can be pre-broken by me.
 
@GrahamChiu Their secret Canadian wing.
 
@MarkI Well it's great we have math geeks here
Even Canadian ones!
 
Elliptical curves are not rocket science. But they do require a modicum of concentration, sadly lacking in most Q&A fora.
 
Well, investigations proving that basically this isn't a completely simple substitution like when you change one hashing algorithm that does N bytes to one that does N*2 bytes. They sort of slipstreamed an extension into the protocol so they could still say it was "TLS 1.2" compatible (when you put an extension into the protocol, you say how many bytes of information are in it, so if a server hasn't heard of that extension it just skips those bytes)
And forum.rebol.info does not support curve25519. It seems this secp256r1 is more of a lowest-common-denominator.
 
1:50 AM
so the forum uses whatever discourse feels appropriate
 
Well, here's a small single C file and single header file that claims to do it: github.com/esxgx/easy-ecc
It isn't parameterized to offer multiple curves, you #define to pick just one for some reason.
 
2:31 AM
Support for 4 standard curves: secp128r1, secp192r1, secp256r1, and secp384r1
snap!
 
2:46 AM
posted on February 19, 2020 by gchiu

>> rub: #{ {\ 0300002F2AE00000000000436F6F6B69653A206D737473686173683D41646D69 {\ 6E697374720D0A0100080003000000 {\ } == #{ 0300002F2AE00000000000436F6F6B69653A206D737473686173683D41646D69 6E697374720D0A0100080003000000 } >> buf: #{} count-up n length-of rub [append buf rub/:n dump buf attempt [print to text! buf]] buf: #{03} buf: #{0300} Assertion failed! Program: C:\Users\anon_

 
3:20 AM
posted on February 19, 2020 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: It turns out we probably don't need to be adding Curve25519 right at the moment for TLS. But how quick I could bridge to a short C implementation's function was really neat, so I thought I'd both save the code and show it off. What happens is it takes a 32-byte input and an optional 32-byte basepoint, both as BINARY!. Then it retur

 
4:03 AM
So that's the interfacing code?
 
 
5 hours later…
8:50 AM
0
Q: How to automatically rotate credentials of service accounts on Red Hat IDM

DedeI've been searching the documentation on - https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/linux_domain_identity_authentication_and_policy_guide/pwd-policies-how - to figure out how to automate password rotation on service accounts. Unfortunately, I cannot find any a...

 
9:04 AM
Whilst the tag <red > is annoying for us, I am curious how this person thinks the tag <hat> is helping him. :-)
 
9:47 AM
Almost always these tags are used by people without a clue.
 
10:03 AM
I experimented with the view extension again. Finally I stripped all stuff out and copied a little piece back in adapted this, compiled and it did nothing like before then I completely dummyfied it in letting my new function just return a code 404 (seemed appropriate) and finally compiling and linking got me a working r3 with my new dummy function.
Now slowly prepare for the way up again, taking it step by step building confidence and more useful code.
 
 
3 hours later…
1:09 PM
This is sensitive stuff! No where near "modify with confidence".
 
@iArnold Depends always on who is doing the modifying. If you would like to compare the API interaction I posted above with trying anything remotely like it in R3-Alpha, please do.
 
Yes I saw that, it inspired me to do the changes here. Got it compiled but I changed a detail and now back to the strat position restarted a terminal but the
 
@iArnold not only is it fairly incomprehensible to interface with R3-Alpha, as you see there in the old Saphirion code that Atronix inherited, but more relevantly... it's not remotely safe. Very vulnerable to all kinds of rampant GC problems or memory issues.
 
-o objs/view/mod-view.o ../extensions/view/mod-view.c
../extensions/view/mod-view.c: In function ‘N_VIEW_open_window’:
../extensions/view/mod-view.c:35:3: error: ‘VIEW_INCLUDE_PARAMS_OF_OPEN_WINDOW’ undeclared (first use in this function); did you mean ‘INCLUDE_PARAMS_OF_UNWIND’?
VIEW_INCLUDE_PARAMS_OF_OPEN_WINDOW;
^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
INCLUDE_PARAMS_OF_UNWIND
../extensions/view/mod-view.c:35:3: note: each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in
where it once worked :-((
 
@iArnold It is the MAKE PREP step that makes those macros. It reads the comments for the definition of the native, and then it makes some #defines so you can refer to the arguments by name instead of by number.
Extensions have the name of the extension in front of the macro so you can give extension natives the same name as other extensions (or ones in the core)
So the VIEW_ on the front of the macro is expected.
@iArnold You have to include a header file to get those macros that make prep generates. So you should have the line #include "tmp-mod-view.h" up at the top of the file somewhere.
We use the convention that any files generated by the build process start with tmp-xxx. (except for rebol.h, which is special)
 
1:22 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Check. Also threw /objs and /prep folders away (even though the process itself does this)
 
@iArnold Sometimes if you introduce an error in the code for the native in the comment block (like not closing a string properly) then it cannot LOAD the native description. You might have missed an error go by (another unfortunate aspect of having so much spew go by in the make prep).
If you miss the error, then you might not get the macro for that definition (or it may leave a stale file in the prep directory).
 
Worst case scenario is me downloading a fresh (and up to date) version of the repo.
 
@iArnold It's good to know what you've changed and why things are happening. If you use the version control, you should be able to do things like say "git stash" and it will save all your changes. Then you can try building. Then you can say "git stash pop" and get your changes back.
While you've resisted the idea of becoming proficient with these mechanisms, those who have learned them find their life to be easier. <shrug>
 
You never could have guessed what did this!
I had:
// "warning: implicit declaration of function"
//
// export open-window: native [
// ]
//
REBNATIVE(open_window)

Instead of:
// "warning: implicit declaration of function"

//
// export open-window: native [
// ]
//
REBNATIVE(open_window)
Now it worked again! "<shrug too>"
Now I am going to stash it!
 
@iArnold Yup, well the rules on how the comment block has to be formatted are pretty specific...and while Brett did quite a good job on making it all happen, he had other things to do after that...so like many pieces of the system (e.g. R3-Alpha, rebmake) it got to a certain point of functionality and stopped... unless I do something about it.
I put usermode Rebol pieces kind of low down on the priority list relative to the core, because supposedly other people know how to improve Rebol code.
 
1:38 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Where are these rules defined? In the source where it gets all collected I guess.
 
@iArnold Brett actually did something interesting and complex, he made a PARSE-based C parser: github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/blob/master/tools/c-lexicals.r
At the time I thought "hey, that sounds pretty neat, we could use a hookable C parser for lots of other things"
But really, this task of reading the Rebol prototypes out of the comments in the files, and getting C function prototypes, is far simpler than that...
We'd probably be better served by a very short simple bit of code, more like what R3-Alpha was doing, just with our new formats.
I've realized a bit of a problem with my LET concept mixed with multiple returns. If you say let [x y]: some-multi-return-thing, you might want some of the return values to use the existing binding, e.g. x is a variable you already have defined but y is a new one. :-/
So we need some syntax for saying to exclude a variable from the LET process. let ['x y]: for instance, or let [@x y]:
There was a similar "hey don't make a new binding" question where for-each 'x [...] [...] was tried to mean that. That is contentious with a concept I have brought up in which for-each 'x is always used when you want a binding and a variable, but for-each [...] ... means you don't want a variable -or- you are providing a function that will take the values as its parameter
for-each [1 2 3] x => [print x] or even just for-each [1 2 3] :print/only
I am, incidentally, feeling like there's something right about print @x being required if x is neither block nor text, where that is a shorthand for print/only x.
Rebol has this curious "special" treatment of blocks...where blocks can either be thought of as a collection of values or a single value. I've struggled with the existence of routines that default to thinking the meaning is a collection, and how often that polymorphism bites new users (and experts) alike when hidden behind an abstraction.
My famous example of value: [format hard drive] and then time passes and you get to the part where you want to see the value and you say print value. But you want blocks to evaluate by default in PRINT...that is kind of integral to the convenience of the language. So the best tradeoff I can think of is to make it so you understand that's always what plain PRINT does, and you never get lulled into the sense that PRINT X is the right way to print out inert values generically.
Of course, we should make it possible for people who disagree to choose other conventions. print: adapt 'lib/print [if not block? :line [only: true]] It can't be too much more difficult than that to override my idea.
 
2:46 PM
In other news: I think that nested BLOCK! inside of a PRINT or UNSPACED should probably follow the historical rules of not printing any brackets and not evaluating at the nested level. This gives you control in branching constructs of giving back more than one element to splice, as well as control of whether there is evaluation or not.
The counter-argument would be to say that those who wish to splice should take care of it with compose. Hence instead of print ["a" if true [["b" "c"]] "d"] you'd have to say print compose ["a" (if true [["b" "c"]]) "d"], and get the splicing that way. Failing to COMPOSE would give you the literal output a ["b" "c"] d.
Note that in today's world you can write print compose ["a" (if true '["b" "c"]) "d"] thanks to soft-quoted branching, which is nice.
 
3:33 PM
Too much shorthand and cryptic use and we are back at regexps ;-)
 
3:45 PM
@iArnold Not seeing any particular overlap there. x: 'foo sets the precedent of "I want x to be foo, don't evaluate it". So x: if (1 < 2) 'foo gives you that freedom and fluidity to spend your delimiters where you want them. Most freeform language ever designed => your choice. x: if (1 < 2) ['foo] if you want a lot of delimiters. x: if 1 < 2 ['foo] to bias it classically. However.
 
3:59 PM
I mean that it will be hard to remember or use. Certainly hard for the regular person to come to that level of skill. The only thing I try to do is keep the feet a little on the ground, and on the other hand ventures like these must be possible too.
AND I got a window on the screen now!!!!
2
user image
3
 
@iArnold Well, that's good.
Anyway, we might go ahead on the view module and set it up to use the C99-and-above form of the API. That means you won't need a rebEND on the API calls.
I haven't tested the file picker stuff lately, but it was supposed to be just using the libRebol API and not the core API.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:24 PM
The null refinement change and nulls not being considered errors in WORD! access is about to be pushed. I mention that having had two months to look at it, that I like it. It has the strange side-effect of basically accepting Rebol2's model for typos as being bound to an "ornery" value as opposed to being bound to a non-cell.
 
6:35 PM
I've written exhaustively about the decision matrix, and how the power of suggestion of compose [a (#[unset!]) b] in Rebol2 being [a b] and the name "unset" led to the idea that "true unset" would not be a value at all.
But I think hindsight shows there's something very different about compose [a (if false [<notspliced>]) b] and a typo situation like compose [a (:some-varable) b]. Silent vaporization shouldn't be happening in the typo case, but we've come to put high value on silent vaporization of the failed branch case.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:37 PM
@iArnold Good start.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:05 PM
@iArnold It's good to see that you're tinkering with it, and whatever you learn can be good testing... but... be forewarned that we're not going to be going down the path that Red is...of embracing a GTK-based view contribution. So any PR that is based on extending our codebase into something that invests more in GTK is likely to be rejected.
What I do want is to be able to package a libRebol up in such a way that it is easy to write C (or C++) programs that use it, whatever it is that you feel like doing. You should be able to download a rebol.h with a librebol.a file from the web just as you can download the webassembly build, and link it in your C programs.
 
10:20 PM
@MarkI I had a bit of an unfortunate thought in my universal-INTEGER! theory where you either fit a platform integer into series cells -or- have a flag saying it points out to an integer node somewhere...the unfortunate thought being that while [not tail? s: next s] [...] on a very long series where you'd exceeded the platform integer index would be making a new node on each NEXT :-(
Thus arriving at kind of the same question of operations mutating by default; should next s actually mutate s. But then COPY does more than just copy the index out of the series, it copies the data. So you can't say next copy s the way I've proposed that add copy 1 2 would be able to work, and semantically 1 + 2 would finesse that without the copy.
 
11:05 PM
We need a modifier for vaporizing NULLs in the API. :-/ Something where rebValue("[a", rebXXX(nullptr), "b]") would come back as just [a b]. Solve for the name of rebXXX().
As nulls cannot be put in blocks (by definition) the default behavior is to error if you have no modifier. If you are in an evaluative context you can quote it, which means it will evaluate to null. But a lot of times you probably did not intend to have a quoted null in the block, and you'd rather just nothing be there.
 
11:23 PM
Pardon my periodic tendency to be a broken record, I've been wondering wondering if we should treat :(...) as "inline this", and perhaps :(( )) as "splice this". 1 :(([+ 2])) being 3, for example. This could be a lot cheaper than COMPOSE for evaluated contexts.
When you think about :(word) being a synonym for get word and (word): being a synonym for set word, you're not really getting a huge benefit out of something like that in terms of characters saved or performance.
get word
:(word)   ; saved one whole character, and not obviously more clear
 
11:45 PM
@iArnold This might be a better target for a GUI opensource.com/article/20/2/wasm-python-webassembly
 

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