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10:48 AM
@giuliolunati Great! Would you like to document the steps you followed in the wiki? I created a page for it github.com/r3n/ren-c/wiki/… You can see I am clueless again with this non-intuitive file version monstrocity ;-)
 
 
4 hours later…
3:06 PM
Added some blah blah to that wiki.
 
 
4 hours later…
7:19 PM
@iArnold Done. Please trust me: git is worth to learn it!
 
 
1 hour later…
8:32 PM
@giuliolunati Super! Now everybody can do this when the need is high.
Yes I just use it too little to get git into my system. I managed to do those other repo's for a while but I had those in different terminals and as my system did not get significant updates I practically never had to restart the machine.
I also made some wiki docs for dezcribing the build process.
Wondered why the View is conpiled in the default config.
 
9:17 PM
posted on January 22, 2020 by Oldes

Current behaviour: >> make vector! [unsigned integer! 32 4] == make vector! [unsigned integer! 32 4 [0 0 0 0]] >> make vector! [signed integer! 32 4] ** Script error: cannot MAKE/TO vector! from: [signed integer! 32 4] ** Where: make ** Near: make vector! [signed integer! 32 4] I believe that it would be better to allow signed word as well, and so instead of the error have: >

 
9:27 PM
@iArnold Just to keep things tested, but I'd be okay making it not in the default config but built on Travis. I just kind of like knowing if things are breaking. Whether those pieces are important or not, they present design challenges and are extant client code...so...maintaining them is informative.
I've said about Red that starting from complete scratch has advantages--to be sure--but it also means you're likely to miss things which were problem areas that pushed limits previously. Can be good to have a big hairy codebase that is mature so that you at least have a map of the territory, vs. having to rediscover everything.
 
9:45 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE your comment about copying any new binaries to a stable name?
to ease linking to the latest binary
 
Makes sense.
 
@GrahamChiu I'm not opposed to a /latest binary copy...if it's not a redirect then it's not a redirect... I'd rather a redirect. We could just write a HTML file instead of making the copy and have that html file do a redirect.
But I really will re-state what I've stated already. There are not resources established at this point in time to build desktop binaries to suit users for any metrics they want. People have to get their hands a bit dirty and the more streamlined that process is, the better we are testing the principle of "you can build it".
The Travis binaries are for kitchen sink debug understanding, not showing the best "distribution" that can be made.
 
that html redirect probably won't work with a R3 binary
 
I am really disheartened about the direction StackExchange has taken, and so we have to weigh that in now. :-/
 
so I think it needs to be a copy
 
9:51 PM
I'm a bit shocked Joel would let this happen.
 
so upgrade just looks for the filename, and then compares the file dates
SE is another company's issue
We just use their chat
We can move away if it helps
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE in that case why are we saving binaries at all?
 
@GrahamChiu I wasn't the one who started that!
If you really want to do it, and do it right, the configurations shouldn't be the random ones we have now.
If you really want to take ownership of the complaints and what not of the desktop distributions -- something you do not have time for -- then you need to get involved in the build process and selection of attributes
What I think is that we really only take responsibility for the web build.
And the rest is just proof of concept for those interested.
Not enough people to support more than that.
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE well, I'll look at the script and see what I can grok
 
And the Wasm build has a big multiplier. Last thing we want is to try and argue with antivirus software or what not.
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE except I don't know of anyone apart from @giuliolunati using it
 
10:03 PM
Well, I'm not super thrilled about maintaining things that people set up and walk away from. Andreas started the Travis matrix and walked off. You started making uploads and walked off. Now you're back. From outer space. I should have changed that stupid script, I should have made you leave your private key...
That build is complex because it is cross-compiled, and again, that's something Andreas set up that not many people want to maintain.
So it's a major liability to even try and keep it going.
But, it's educational in the sense of "lowest common denominator" building; it keeps the Amish cred going.
But if I had to collapse it down to the one build I am interested in right now, it's Wasm. That's the relevant one.
So I think the fact we can do that via Travis and do an asyncify and threaded build, and have it come up through the loader, is our most significant accomplishment
Really, that's ahead of the curve, and the rest is... nice, but a distraction.
There's like six people who care right now, and I'd like those six people to be capable of doing their own builds...and I do not want desktop end-user customers. As per Tim Ferris, sometimes you have to fire your customers.
It's the web customers we want.
Red can have the classical Rebol desktop market and serve those people, I'm totally cool with that now.
If someone can't build or help build what we've got, and wants a desktop deliverable, do not pass go and go deal with Red. Let them give you what you need. If they ever can.
Even that seems to be in question.
"Can Red take a decade to make a 32-bit Rebol2 equivalent that has TLS 1.2?" => Jury is still out on this.
Also, Apple killed off 32-bit. What now?
@GrahamChiu Anyway, I guess my point is, please focus. If you need something then speak to your need, narrowly. The web build is the only external facing build in which I have interest at this point, the rest is for developers who are handy with a C compiler only.
A couple of Windows builds are failing due to a TCC dependency that has been introduced into pthreads which should not be necessary; I would guess I can probably fix it by tweaking some build setting to say "no C99 threads please". But that will take a day to look into.
 

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