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6:01 AM
@giuliolunati et. al... so I'm trying to lobby Mozilla here. Wish me luck and/or join bugzilla and chime in. I don't know what's going to happen with this.
If they deem I'm not speaking sense or we otherwise can't get leverage, we may be forced into a situation where hosted Rebol is always asyncify... and if you want pthreads you must host your own copy. This isn't actually that bad, two reasons: (1) asyncify is 8x faster than emterpreter was and performs decently for most purposes. (2) no one is likely to pay us for bandwidth costs anytime soon, so if they get the faster version by hosting their own copy it incentivizes them hosting it.
rebol-server can host local on Android with pthreads as normal if we add https on the send side instead of just the receiving side, which, well it has to be done anyway.
Anyway, this isn't a catastrophe, but better to be squeaky wheel now instead of later. Note the remarks from the Qt-on-the-web folks:
> let me explain why this issue was soo dreadful for us: we are developing and testing applications and offering FF for the customer, we tell them that it is nice, reliable and pukes rainbows whenever the customer wishes. We prepare demos, show off and one morning, this whole stuff just does not work. There is not any clue why. Cloning? Context? It does not ring a bell at all. Looking up documentation? Nothing. Google? Nothing.
> If we do not test with Nightly (since it is said to be unstable by its nature) this change would have gone unnoticed to the stable release, thus all of our customers would face a morning where all of their data are not reachable anymore.
 
6:55 AM
Someone attached a complete testcase to it. I don't know if it any good or could be of any use..
 
@iArnold This stuff is getting prohibitive to test, and they keep changing it. I'm empathetic (e.g. people complain Ren-C changes, but I feel like Firefox is a different ball of wax in terms of community and commitment, easy to say that I guess). Right now since they require https...to test locally you need to set up a server with a valid security certificate, this is not convenient.
The next release will have a "low security development mode" so at least that will help a little. But, still. While I didn't want to go off too much saying "the security emperor has no clothes" in my post, I have a hunch I'm right.
 
7:13 AM
To say the least yes.
Indeed be careful what you say, all those little emperors can take it very personal. Policies like this https requirement will backfire in the long run when lots of developing will no longer be done using FF but only deployed leaving glitches to be patched later and end-users choosing other browsers with working sites over FF.
 
@iArnold Well, Alon at least has a rather good head on his shoulders... but I don't know how much sway he has in this.
Anyway, the reason it's only a minority of people being hit and raising the alarm right now is because we're in the minority of trying to provide a threaded cross-domain lib. So the other complainers are the ones also doing this.
The number of groups attempting this can probably be counted on two hands right now
I've mentioned before that this is the right time for being grateful the design is hedged in a way that the single-threaded approach wasn't dropped when the worker-threaded approach showed early promise. Designing for both has been prudent and I wouldn't be surprised if these issues with the threads are still sifting through next year.
 
Hope he can do with the Chromium guys.
I really think they underestimate the backfire on this. A lot of smaller devs and companies out there.. and when they do no longer support FF because they do not want the hassle of certificates on their development process. Most people I know today have multiple browsers installed anyway, just a preference of the one they actually use most.
 
I've read some naysayers/skeptics about WebAssembly, suggesting this is not going to be the next sliced bread, but rather another thing people sink time into and get dropped... e.g. NaCl, and people shouldn't put all their eggs in this basket.
I sure hope not, because, then we are screwed.
But right now even the worst case scenario on this doesn't look that terrible, so, meh.
 
Webassembly certainly is a very serious and desirable goal, I do agree with that allthough it is not my thing (yet). For me still the most important is the possibility of stand alone computing, no prying eyes over any communication over the net for stuff I only need locally.
 
If WebAssembly would be dropped as a container, what would that mean? That web is forever going to be html, css, js/json based? Well, I can imagine such scenario might get backed up by those fearing losing the control upon js/json way of doing things. What a nightmare for you, if new technology would emerge, replacing slowly yours truly?
Mozilla, after all, is a political organisation
 
7:26 AM
@pekr One might wonder how much subconscious (and conscious) pushbacks from stakeholders in that ecosystem there is. Few groups who by chance or whimsy get an entitlement or advantage, will give that advantage up without a fight.
 
I can admit, I know only a little about how WebAssembly is integrated into a browser. I do expect, you have the means to talk to html/css/js/dom stuff from inside your app?
But - can your Webassembly app be a completly separate thing? I mean - a Rebol app, which uses browser only as a display, plus a distributin/networking/security layer?
 
@pekr Model is that there is a large pool of memory...addressed by numbers. When JavaScript talks to WASM, it calls functions by name and can only pass some amount of numbers in and get a number back. Any communication done when JS calls wasm must be by the actual value of the number (e.g. wasm_print_integer(5)) or by address, where the JS pokes values into the memory heap and then sends the integer as where it wrote the numbers.
For the moment, going the other direction (wasm calling JS) is similarly limited in that the wasm can only pass numbers to the JS. If you want a DOM manipulation, you have to ask JS to do it for you.
Again, that could be (js_print_integer(5) or js_print_string_at_address(12383900)), but always the currency is integer, for now.
@pekr The thread most relevant to answering this question is: "What will Rebol on the Web Look Like", so please direct further comments there.
 
7:43 AM
Well, my quesiton is rather simple - no DOM, no JS, just a browser as a container for a Rebol app :-)
 
@pekr @Pekr is using the browser as a top-layer to outsource all the functionality we lack in current Rebol :-D Nice thought!
 
Why? Think of old Flash plugin - a complete platform which did not eventually require anything html/js/css/dom related. I am not sure why I should bother with that stuff. So yes - browser as a means of always available, installed, distribution platform.
If WASM is not allowing exactly that, then I missunderstood its purpose and it becomes kind of irrelevant to me as such.
 
@pekr It is nice to be able to take snippets of JS when you have something JS-like you want to do, and use them directly. Look for instance at this copy to clipboard function. Being able to do inline javascript is kind of like inline assembly in a compiler.
But I think in the "#1, #2, #3" scenarios I laid out that we are more or less downplaying the "#1"... e.g. the JavaScript developer who wants to build their whole app out of JS and then call Rebol as a service library now and again.
So the primary customer focus, to the extent there are customers or analysis of this kind, is someone who is writing their app starting at Rebol. They use Rebol routines that have to call JavaScript to do things, but that's usually written by someone else.
Until you find something you want the browser to do that you have JS code for, at which point, you bite the bullet and escape into a bit of inline JavaScript.
Right now we are struggling with a bit of downtime on the pthreads build, and it looks like this is going to be a bit of a fight...so I'm going to downgrade us to asyncify on all builds tomorrow but keep badgering them.
So demos should be up again, just not quite as fast as they should be.
 
I will read the link you posted. Quite longish and I am actually at work, so later today ...
 
8:49 AM
0
Q: How to call https from SpringBoot

KinkarFrom my Spring Boot application, I wanted to call Red Hat Decision Manager kie server rest API using the below code String serverUrl = "https://server:host/services/rest/server"; String username = "username"; String password = "password"; But I am getting below error java.la...

 
 
8 hours later…
4:59 PM
@HostileFork WASM is here to stay. No question. Biggest reason: it has formal semantics, unlike NaCl or indeed anything else in the computing world.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:14 PM
@HostileFork debugging rebol-server, I got an error "wasm stream compile failed: Type error: could not download wasm module"
 
@giuliolunati On the asyncify version?
 
7:31 PM
yes
then all freezes
 
@giuliolunati Urg. But asyncify is working in a plain browser?
 
8:20 PM
@HostileFork dunno, I'm using the phone ;-)
 
@giuliolunati On the phone with shared array buffer turned off (no threading) what do you get when pulling from the website (not served by httpd.reb)
That works for me
 
@HostileFork for me also
But the same files don't work when served by webserver.reb+httpd.reb
 
@giuliolunati Ok then...well as I said, I think we just have to disable the threaded build until further notice; there is flux going on, and emscripten just bumped their release version to the one where threads are broken, and I'm sorry to say I haven't figured out how to fix it yet.
@giuliolunati I still wonder if that's the https factor; that the browsers changed.
I do not really know how to set up a local https server to test that theory; I never have
The error reporting and diagnostics for all of this is... bad.
 

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