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1:07 AM
I watched part of the Huawei Mate 30 Pro release in Germany last night
Amazing bit of kit
Had to use a VPN based in Germany so I was getting ads in german :(
But no google services supplied
So, Huawei have a 1.5Bn war chest to attract developers over to their platform
We must have someone who wants to write apps for Huawei's app store using ren-c??
How about a bible app? Or a Quran app?
 
 
2 hours later…
2:56 AM
@GrahamChiu I'm all for it if you are the one spearheading it, and we set up the Travis CI so it is testable. I hate to be becoming a stickler, but if I am to drive this whole thing toward success...I have to switch modes to being that guy.
No one has--yet--complained about my newer stricter attitude.
 
A spear has multiple components. I can be the spear tip but I need the shaft, the glue and the momentum.
 
@GrahamChiu Well, as non-paying-customers whose every whim gets indulged, you're kind of the iceberg tip of that. I was just thinking about the drone I have in my car. Can we build a reproducible UDP launch for the drone? I wanted to demo it at the conference, and that didn't happen.
 
@HostileFork I had no problems with launching the drone from rebol and controlling its movements
The issue was grabbing the video feed
 
@GrahamChiu I want to launch my drone from Rebol. Let's do it, or, let me throw the thing out so it's not in my car.
 
@HostileFork I did publish code for that don't you remember?
to show that we were in control
As I recall we got stuck because we needed a separate thread to send a poll to the drone
 
3:02 AM
@GrahamChiu Well, I haven't controlled the drone from Rebol yet, just the cell app. Anyway, I don't know if that's super important, but, I'm trying to make a point that I need people to commit. If you don't care in 2021 then I cannot sub-allocate time for it.
 
and for some reason that was needed to get the video feed
so the drone project stalled
I can't point you to my repo with the code since github is blocked
 
@GrahamChiu I can do it. Did you follow the upgrade of the httpd server? I can fix this stuff... travis-ci.org/metaeducation/rebol-httpd/jobs/586148992#L682
@GrahamChiu Eh, you'll be home in a bit.
 
Well, I'm talking in the present
 
@GrahamChiu Well my point is just that I have a drone under the front seat of my car, and I have yet to launch it with that code.
 
@HostileFork not my issue. I posted the code
 
3:05 AM
We need focus. If that's important let's get all the documentation and everything down. If it's not important, I should probably throw the thing in the nearest bin and move on.
 
@HostileFork not sure what i'm looking at
there's a line saying the client hung
 
@GrahamChiu I built a stress test that deliberately hangs up in mid-communication to the server, to try and make sure the server is robust to arbitrary hangups. The server was not robust to that.
 
@HostileFork yes that was a bug I picked up a while ago
 
So, the under-designed port model got a slight improvement.
 
AFAIK I thought you were trying to make the port full duplex
 
3:08 AM
@GrahamChiu Yes, well, we're close to that, it's not far now. I can probably do it in a few days, but the main thing is that when you create such things you need tests to prove you accomplished what you said you set out to do, and then try to keep said tests working.
 
Regarding the drone thing, this port improvement is also going to help, right?
 
I can probably do full duplex ports in about 2 to 3 days time.
 
Which is also part of the puzzle
 
Now that I know what I'm looking at.
 
And we needed a way to turn this into a apk
And then create a drone toolkit to control any drone
so Rebol becomes a drone control language which was my initial aim
 
3:09 AM
I don't want to control any drone, I want to control the drone that's under my driver's seat!
We have to focus.
 
There are multiple bits in play here
 
Well I see one major question at play right now.
 
So, started looking at vuejs
 
Do we target mobile or do we target desktop. Same tech in play, but the question is how much to pander to the APK and all the ensuing questions.
 
And then we needed a UI to control the drone
forget desktop
just target mobile
 
3:11 AM
Well there's a voice and a trend in the favor of "forget desktop"
 
but mobile needs a UI
desktop can be CLI
 
Says the Chinese fellow who WeChat doesn't ban as a dissident.
 
WeChat works fine for me
I'd like to write a plugin for WeChat
 
@giuliolunati has set up a thing. I decided it was important, and I dug up the code, and that's why I built the stress tests
For something that I really didn't want to touch
 
@HostileFork I can't really follow any of that until I break out of the Great Firewall
 
3:14 AM
@GrahamChiu Well you know Rebol PORT! was crap, and you know that when I sit down and attack things they get fixed. Connect the dots.
2
 
I really don't know how doc managed to work in China so long
 
@GrahamChiu By not accomplishing anything notable.
 
didn't he manage to sell 30M in his crypto currency?
 
@GrahamChiu I thought it was $13m
 
before it all crashed and burned
 
3:15 AM
I thought the pre-burn figure was $13m-ish
 
I thought there was a 3 in it somewhere
 
Well, he comes from a background of strategy gaming
Online strategy, so.
 
hopefully it was poker
and he managed to cash some chips in
 
It was a deal, trading on his citizenship, to leverage the reputation, outside of countries that had ICOs illegal (US, China). His leverage was dual Montenegro/French citizenship, so he was a convenient vessel for the Chinese people from the VCs.
^-- true story
I think they must have been constrained on cashing out
 
so it was a hack to take money from greedy people
 
3:19 AM
I think he would have strategically cashed out ASAP once he thought he could fund the work he wanted to do, if he could.
Hence, I imagine he couldn't cash out, else he'd have money and wouldn't be scrambling to bill themselves as an AI bridge or what not.
 
AI bridge?
 
There must have been some handcuffs in the deal
 
there's an effort to build the "Java" of quantum computing on right now
 
e.g. the people doing the pumping for the ICO arranged a thing, where he couldn't cash out right away.
If I'm wrong, people can correct me, I'm just trying to guess. This is very much not in the know, outside guesswork.
It's not my field. Scamming is like, it's own industry. I'm an engineer...sorry.
 
Anyway, the drone project requires a full duplex port, apk generation, UI, and multi threading
 
3:23 AM
@GrahamChiu Well I said, it's under the driver's seat of my car, we have the code, but I asked everyone something rather specific. will you still care in 2021.
 
well, you're in the drivers seat
I can only work with what we have
so if all the pieces fall into play then I can restart work
not entirely sure about the multi-threading. Maybe just needed to send a heart beat
 
@GrahamChiu Well, I think my question is the question to ask. Can we fly that drone? Sure. Do you think flying that drone in 2021 matters? Then I want us to set up a travis installation and... well, maybe that's an unusual testing case, but I guess maybe we'd have to have a verbal agreement. Like one of us goes outside once a week to test it.
 
I flew the drone using R2 code
I can fly it using Renc
What I want is the video stream
otherwise I have to control it by watching the drone
which is no fun
 
@GrahamChiu After my very frustrating (and now, semi-open secret) turning-down-of what I considered an insulting full-time job offer... I'm back and, so, I'm back proving I can kind of do anything. BUT the fact that I can do anything must be balanced against time and space and what is worth doing.
 
@HostileFork so what's the current priority list?
 
3:29 AM
@GrahamChiu Well, @giuliolunati has been rather loyal, and built some cool stuff for the conference, and he's been showing up for work. So, I tended his concerns last week.
 
@HostileFork anything that helps Giulio is good for me too
since his stuff is all web server and apk
which is ports
 
@GrahamChiu You're loyal but... YOU HAVE TO PICK. We can't have every ADD choice you make derail me.
Pick a focus, pick a project, let's put it on Travis.
I think, listening to you, that is probably vue.js
That's where your heart is.
 
That's where I was last at
The GUI side of the equation
 
@GrahamChiu Yes, well, @ingo is now learning the ropes too
 
before I get derailed by a rather time consuming job
 
3:32 AM
And BrianOtto was getting pretty deep, but, he has life and kids and what not
 
we all have those
 
I only have the what not
Anyway, like I said above, I hope people think me becoming a stickler and demanding process-oriented person is good.
It's the right thing to do.
I'm still going to be the awesome and radical thought leader you have all come to know and love BUT... I'm going to have to start laying down the law.
 
I guess I'll go back to reading vuejs docs
which are still accessible through the firewall
 
If I don't become more strict, there will be no project.
 
though chat is barely available
@Xiaomeng are you here to study us? :)
 
3:35 AM
@GrahamChiu You're not going to be there in a month and a half, stop worrying.
@GrahamChiu Anyway, take your vacation time seriously, hear me out. I want to turn this into process and you have to pick ONE thing. ONE.
I don't want to dictate what that is, but I think you want a WASM/vue.js GUI
 
no console
 
It seems to be where your heart is. And it's a tall order.
 
@HostileFork yep
@HostileFork the lack of a GUI has been a show stopper all along
 
@GrahamChiu But the thing is, like I said, maybe I pull the drone out from under the driver's seat and toss it in the nearest bin, so we can actually accomplish something in this lifetime.
 
@HostileFork I got as far as I could with that
 
3:39 AM
@GrahamChiu I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, I'm trying to explain that I cannot write all the code in the world.
 
they have a swarm model
that would be cool
We're having a communication problem
you seem to be talking half duplex
 
@GrahamChiu No, I'm very clearly telling you, that you have like 50 projects and as a volunteer open source robot I can't support all of them, so you must prioritize.
 
@HostileFork so I am going to work on vuejs
that's all I can do on my holiday
everything else is blocked for me
I can't even reach the wiki where I kept notes on the rebol wasm stuff
 
@GrahamChiu I give the drone as a very tactile example. I do have the drone, I bought it because you kept asking me questions about it... and... it seemed easier to answer the questions if I had the device on hand.
 
so annoying
 
3:43 AM
And I think we can totally control it, sure, it's a way we could spend time.
 
@HostileFork I don't think you should make that a priority
full duplex control of the tcp port yes
 
@GrahamChiu But I'm not kidding, like, if I pulled it out from under my driver's seat and threw it in a trashcan a weight would be lifted from my shoulders.
 
@HostileFork why?
Just send it to me
 
@GrahamChiu Because there's all this UDP stuff and it's very annoying, but, like I said, I just went and did work on the TCP... I did not say these are easy questions.
 
anyway we seem to be in a forever loop
 
3:46 AM
I want to fly that drone with Rebol on my phone, it seems a cool thing to do.
So I'm not so keen on just giving up.
And, we know it works
Why not tape it? Why not show people?
 
let me get onto the vpn to see if I have the code still on github
 
@GrahamChiu Well I'm forcing everyone on Travis, you see my remarks of no path forward if we do not enforce accountability.
If people won't be accountable, I'm out.
I gave 2021 as a metric. If you don't see your code being relevant in 2021, I cannot help you.
I'm being grumpy and blunt but, I think there is an element of having to be cruel to be kind--we have to focus.
And I think people should be happy I'm taking this turn.
 
A more hostile hostilefork will ultimately improve the health of this project. A lenient hostilefork will just allow a sort of... milieu that dissolves.
 
I think that's the link but I can't go there
 
4:00 AM
@GrahamChiu I was thinking the next Travis thing would be me getting on @Edoc's case. It's midnight by my clock and a bit late to dig out the drone. And your internet is intermittent. But, fine. I can work tomorrow on the drone software.
Tomorrow, will be drone day. I've been a bit of a machine lately, just "well, whatever you say". So tomorrow I'll work on the drone code.
 
and these are the commands you can type dl-cdn.ryzerobotics.com/downloads/tello/0228/…
so there's no problem with controlling the drone
ok, nite
 
@GrahamChiu BUT you are going to have to come back and tend to bugs on it. I will make it work...and sure, if I get into it we can muck with the camera and even do decision making.
 
12 pm for me
I'd better go out for lunch
 
@GrahamChiu I will give you ONE DAY of making sure the drone is workable. But after that, one of my big pushes with "reality" is, you better be into drones.
 
I'm not buying another one!
actual drone work will have to wait until I'm back in NZ
 
4:03 AM
@GrahamChiu Well, I haven't seen mine launched from Rebol yet
So, I should do so, else it's the most pointless purchase ever
I can fly it from the app
 
@HostileFork it works from Rebol
what else can I say if you don't try it?
 
@GrahamChiu I said, tomorrow, I will.
 
@HostileFork ok, report back
 
@GrahamChiu Will do.
 
tally-ho
 
4:06 AM
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@GrahamChiu So it goes.
 
 
11 hours later…
3:03 PM
rebol-server is now deployed at .../travis-builds/rebolserver/
cc: @HostileFork
 
3:25 PM
@HostileFork unfortunately, r3-console doesn't work :-/
 
 
3 hours later…
6:09 PM
@HostileFork the pre-installed r3-console doesn't work, but after reinstalling (from apps/ index) it works!
 
7:28 PM
How do i use the returnvalue of reb.Value inside a js-native? (contrived and shortened example:
js-native[a]{alert(reb.Value( "do", reb.Spell(reb.ArgR("a")))}
I always seem to get the pointer back.
 
 
4 hours later…
11:19 PM
@HostileFork Cool!
 
11:49 PM
@HostileFork There's something I'm not clear of in your port! critique: for sure the TCP scheme is flawed—you've found plenty of work in evaluating HTTPD alone. It's likely the file scheme will have similar glaring flaws if the tires are kicked sufficiently. I don't know too much about the serial port scheme/extension (is it even a scheme?). STD-IO is unresolved. We have a few other higher-level schemes with various degrees of love and care.
Does your overall crap verdict extend to the PORT! datatype structure itself, language quirks pertaining to naming (per aforementioned event names) notwithstanding? I've built a few schemes for Rebol 2 and 3 over time and I do tend to like the concept of these malleable interfaces with their tight association with the core verbs and the url!/file! types (it's possible I'm biased given my own investment in that way of thinking).
I do believe scheme authoring could benefit from much more transparency and documentation—there's still a degree of mystery as to the specific mechanics (particularly when building schemes on top of the TCP scheme). In general though I see ports/schemes as being in that small set of Rebol's core and compelling distinguishing features.
My confusion may just come down to the terminology used, but I'm open to the prospect that this view is misguided and that perhaps ports are an attempt at oversimplification of complex systems.
 

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