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1:13 AM
input currently accepts text! as data. I wonder if there's any value in having a refinement to accept only specific datatypes?
input/value - any valid loadable rebol value
or input/decimal to only allow decimal values
or even, be able to pass a parse rule to input?
that would be the most flexible
input/rule [any-number!]
 
@GrahamChiu It fits in with predicates. input .any-number! Could take a parse rule predicate as a block. input .[some any-number!]
I don't particularly like calling it INPUT though.
If we were willing to take the word INPUT, why not also take OUTPUT. When one realizes the reason not to do the latter, one sees why not to do the former.
ASK is better.
 
input is from BASIC?
 
I guess.
 
I'd be happy to replace input with ask, or, a predicated input with ask
 
I'd been meaning to do something about it but just haven't
 
1:26 AM
so, at present I'm having to do something like
cycle [ prin "Gimme valid number: " i: input
if any-number? load i [break]]
 
ASK should be a dialect, like ask ["Problem was encountered" <A> Abort <R> Retry <I> Ignore]
It may be that ask text! is a good way of saying "ask for just generic text of any kind"
And if you want a prompt and get text, then ask "This would mean that"
 
ask [integer! text!] .. 140 Washington Drive
 
We'd have to find a way of mixing parse rules into the dialect. Maybe any BLOCK! inside is assumed to be a parse rule.
 
yes
 
Anyway, as I say, it's an area I've thought to pay attention to but have not. If you want to start spec'ing it then great. I want INPUT taken back as a generic variable name, like, yesterday.
I like the idea of using TAG! to give some case insensitive keys to type for prompts, It seems it would be nice to be able to use plain WORD! but that's contentious with other meanings so you probably have to use strings. Although, maybe <(A)bort> <(R)etry> <(I)gnore> .. you could put the whole thing in a tag.
Plan -4 says that should be legal, but historical Rebol thinks you mean < (A)...
I still basically believe in Plan -4 though, so I think those should be TAG!s.
 
2:01 AM
@GrahamChiu What do you want ASK to do to loop vs. give back an error? If you say anything but ASK TEXT! should it be assumed you want validation, and on failing keep asking?
until [ask integer!] it should be easy to do a loop yourself. Failure can give NULL.
 
I think loop back until the user fufils the criteria.
hmm. Perhaps we need to provide an error message
People are not all geniuses
 
@GrahamChiu There's the issue of the error message and then the issue of the looping, they're separate. I'm just saying that I think it's better to do it with a loop like that instead of ask/loop or ask/noloop or similar.
ASK could try and make its own error message from what you gave it, but if there was logic like parse rules that could be difficult.
 
but not impossible
 
2:16 AM
Well you could mold out the dialect that you got, so it's not impossible to give something that someone might reverse engineer to figure out what you wanted. I argue the impossibility is doing a general solution that would be coherent to the average reader.
Anyway, a key invention here that I hadn't thought of before is the idea of getting the unfiltered input with ask text!. I wasn't happy with how ask _ or ask blank or ask [] looked, but I think that's nice, and means we can drop INPUT. It can give an error message for a while pointing you to ASK, and we can start not feeling bad about using it as a variable name.
 
posted on March 20, 2019 by lkppo

A build using a binary compiled with commit 4a01d0e fails with the last commit on: $ ./r3-openbsd-x64 make.r CONFIG=configs/generic.r OS-ID=0.9.40 [ [M32 ARC HID NPS PIE NCM UFS NSP PIC WLOSS] [M32 ARC PIE HID DYN CON S4M] [LP64 LLP64 BEN LEN LLC SGD SG? W32 UNI F64 NSEC PIP2 NSER] [M DL LOG W32 NWK]] ** Error: Unused flags in %systems.r specifications ** Where: fail if use do catch eit

 
I should go ahead and incorporate r2warn.reb into the console.
And then people can add patches to it as they find things they can imagine warnings for. Ren-C has a bunch of tools for doing detections and variadics and various magic to help with this. e.g. being able to tell the difference between x: func [y] [compose [(y)]] foo x 10 and foo [10] without quoting.
I don't generally prescribe using all of these features liberally in one's designs, but when it comes to doing linting and validation for things like r2warn.reb, it's useful.
 
3:02 AM
@Adrian no luck on the avatar post, eh? :-/
 
posted on March 20, 2019 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: I have been wanting ASK to become more clever than it is today, e.g. to take a dialect: >> ask ["Operation failed." <(A)bort> <(R)etry> <(I)gnore>] Operation failed. (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)gnore? A == #Abort That’s an imaginative idea which would let you use TAG! to signal things to prompt for, and give you bac

 
@HostileFork, no, not yet - spent a bit of time yesterday trying to restore them by running a ruby script in the container, which supposedly cleans the avatar cache, but it didn't seem to do anything
After an initial quick reply on the question of fixing the upgrade, a further question re. the avatars and favicon got no replies, on the metadiscourse forum.
 
@Adrian Yet again, the "software is too complex" problem...
Discourse isn't sequencing DNA or doing rocket telemetry.
 
yeah
I'll add to that post and say what I did - maybe that'll trigger further input
 
3:20 AM
@HostileFork Yep. But can you do anything worthwhile at all that isn't complex?
 
@GrahamChiu There's complexity inherent in lots of things. SSDs are complex. But when you're working with complex things they can present a usage surface to you (e.g. a filesystem) that is designed in such a way that it matches your needs of it. I think programming hasn't really been able to insulate people well enough from concerns, this is just another example.
 
It's isn't complex to use .. once it's working
but the upgrades ... or, if something goes wrong .. even the authors can't fix it
because you're relying on 3rd party "stuff" which isn't up to snuff
 
I'm sure they can, but they do sell their services so they'd sooner do it that way
you can see the upsell here - meta.discourse.org/t/…
It's understandable - they need to feed their kids too.
lots of people having problems - can't help them all
 
@Adrian not a good sign for robust software
like a phone that needs upgrading every year
@Adrian teach the kids independence!
 
Yeah! Get out an earn a living, you little rug rats!
 
3:33 AM
They should evolve to sustain themselves off the air, like a breatharian. Or at least off the air pollution. Might be easier.
 
I did a ./launcher rebuild last time it perished, and it just made it worse
so I had to get the top guns in
 
well, the data is on the host so a rebuild of the container doesn't harm that - at worst you can blow it all away and just re-install from scratch
 
Maybe we should take a leaf out of rebolforum's book?
@Adrian the data is all on S3
 
the docker setup uses shared volumes
 
it's backed up daily automatically
 
3:36 AM
well, it's also on the ubuntu host, as opposed to being state in the container's internal filesystem
so that's why you shouldn't be afraid of rebuilds losing everything
if you look at app.yml in /var/discourse/containers, you can see what the host/guest mapping is
 
@Adrian Hmm. I assumed that the postgres stuff etc was all in the container. But the container is able to access the local FS?
 
yes, as shared volumes
set in app.yml
/var/discourse/shared, IIRC is mapped to inside the container
 
Ah, okay.
 
under shared, you'll find the avatars and other images
 
@Adrian and they're encrypted protected or something else has happened 2 them?
 
3:45 AM
the upgrade did an optimizing pass on the images, IIRC
and something went off there - but the originals still seem to be around - just might need to be put in the right place
 
do we need to upgrade again to see if it fixes things?
:)
 
there's a tombstone dir involved, as well - haven't really read too much about installing discourse, but probably that would go into what these are all about
could try it, but then the optimized images might be copied into the originals dirs and the real originals might be lost then
well, unless you would restore from S3, though I'm not quite sure what exactly is backed up there aside from the messages (and I suppose embedded images)
I mean I'm not sure if the avatars are backed up there.
I haven't given up hope that someone who knows will step in and pity us.
 
@Adrian It seems to me the "Access Denied" is probably the root of the problem
I can't upload a new avatar
So presumably file permissions are at play--the files are in the right place but not with permissions to the Discourse
Maybe some chmod'ing is in order
 
I was able to add a 512x512 icon for Android use, from the web UI
 
If you change the file permissions to global anyone can read or write with chmod do they pick up?
 
3:51 AM
haven't tried
 
Well, maybe try that
And then, if it works, pare back the permissions until whatever it is that Discourse can do
Whatever account ID it's under.
 
4:09 AM
Ctrl-T for "open new tab" and Ctrl-R for "refresh" are dangerously close, considering often one of the reasons you open a new tab is "I was working on something I want to keep, please open a new thing so I don't lose it". Ah, the world of mindless designs.
 
4:19 AM
So I think if you COMPOSE a GROUP!, it should look for BLOCK!s when doing its rules.
 
@HostileFork to use load-r3.js the browser must support Promise. Are there any interesting browser with Promise but w/out WASM?
 
    >> compose '(1 + [second [a (b +) c]] + 2)
    == (1 + (b +) 2)

    >> compose '(1 + [[second [a (b +) c]]] + 2)
    == (1 + b + 2)
@giuliolunati Probably not... I guess we can just say no if there's no WASM, give a message pointing to browsers that have it...
^-- I think that if COMPOSE would do this trick, then it would be more useful for mixing with Z3 Theorem Prover or similar.
It could also be COMPOSE/BLOCKS, and if you find yourself doing that a lot you could locally redefine COMPOSE as a specialization, or make BCOMPOSE, or otherwise it's your job to come up with a name for it. That's probably the best thing to do.
 
@HostileFork does this error from the browser console make sense?
Loading mixed (insecure) display content “forum.rebol.info/uploads/default/original/1X/…” on a secure page
how is the image, loaded using https mixed/insecure content?
 
@Adrian Hmm
@Adrian It may be that it's getting redirected, and showing you the original link not the one it wound up fetching?
 
4:35 AM
yeah, that's what I'm thinking
 
Well the browser doesn't seem to redirect it
 
4:57 AM
I think that with UTF-8 Everywhere coming along, the value of being able to transform a string into a BLOCK! of characters is actually pretty high. It's neat to think that to block! "abcd" would give you [#"a" #"b" #"c" #"d"], and then you could do algorithmic surgery on it to put in other parts like [#"a" _ #"c" "hello"], then TO TEXT! on that and get "achello".
With GET-BLOCK!, I think you should be able to say n: 1 | to text! :["foo-" n] and get "foo-1". If you use GROUP! in a GET-BLOCK!, I think it should allow that... so n: 1 | to text! :["foo-" (n + 1)] to get "foo-2"
But if you just say to text! ["foo-" n] you'd get "foo-n"
Then, if you want to transform a string into a block of code, that might be better as make block! "[<foo> #baz 'bar]" to give you [<foo> #baz 'bar]
This is in the spirit of thinking about TO as being more about steady-state equivalencies, and less "processing". I've mentioned that TO shouldn't use binding information (so no looking up variables from words), and just generally be "lighter". The amount of processing of invoking the scanner recursively for LOAD-like behavior isn't really a suggestion of the kind of equivalency for TO, but MAKE it could be all right. e.g. MAKE (as we have seen) calls the evaluator when making objects.
Anyway, TO TEXT! can't be "mold" because I've kind of laid out the rule that TO <type> of something of that type is identical to COPY, and that seems to make sense to me as a pin in the ground. It probably shouldn't be FORM. For that matter, FORM should probably just be spaced .quote [...]
Where by default the predicate for SPACED would be EVAL.
Oops, I should have said spaced .lit [...] or spaced .literally [...], because FORM wants the items literally, not to evaluate them and then add a quote level. We need to start using the terms "literally" and "quoted" correctly.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:30 AM
posted on March 20, 2019 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: Much of Rebol’s appeal lies in its diverse collection of parts. One of the parts that has been coveted for a while is @foo. Questions have arisen on what to call this. AT! has been suggested, though this can get a bit confused with the AT operation in the language. (TO-AT also looks kind of strange). Other concepts have been to r

 
 
8 hours later…
4:42 PM
I've written about the idea that func ['foo '(bar)] [...] potentially be the notation for "literal arguments" and "escapable literal arguments" (so that would be the new way of writing what was formerly func [:foo 'bar] [...] I'm also leaning to saying that soft quoting only works with GROUP!s, and that GET-WORD!s (e.g. for-each :x ... [...]) would indicate you tolerate ACTION! and VOID!.
We could bias it the other way to func ['(foo) 'bar] [...] where the semiotic presence of the GROUP! says "I also quote GROUP!s at the callsite, so don't let them perform escapes", which would be more compatible. And there was presumably a reason why soft-quoting took plain 'bar in the first place, the idea that more people want quotes to be escapable than not.
But an interesting thing to note about the refinement-is-argument plan, this all works with PATH!. '/foo, '/(bar), :/foo, etc. Just pointing out that another reason refinements and arguments may have been separate before was that there would then be no notation for a quoted refinement argument, but now there can be.
 
5:03 PM
Also, I've been thinking if you use a multi-element path (or a tuple?) it would be a way of saying you want to use a different name for the argument in the function. foo: func [bar /any/foo-any] [...]. Or foo: func [bar /any.foo-any] [...] This way you can have lib's ANY in the body, but still have the parameter name. This is a real pain to work around right now, and having a standard solution would be good.
 
 
5 hours later…
10:19 PM
posted on March 21, 2019 by Giuseppe Chillemi

Hi,   which hosting providers do you suggest for REBOL in 2019 ? I wish to have a web page with a REBOL engine.

 
11:05 PM
@giuliolunati Look at this, does it work for you? With that Blob API we could generate files in Rebol and make download links...! Zip files, PDFs, text files, etc...
So maybe have a virtual file system but when you ls the dir make them be hyperlinked, so you you can download them...
 
@HostileFork I recall I've tried something similar some time ago, but failed on phone... let me check it tomorrow
 

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