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12:13 AM
@rgchris I think that's similar to a class property in OOP
 
 
1 hour later…
1:26 AM
Wait just one second. If functions inside sub-objects aren't rebound, then doesn't wrapping the function in an object solve @ShixinZeng's problem instantly? The sub-object isn't copied, no memory is consumed, right?
It would effectively make the function cloning a no-op, just as @HostileFork suggested!
 
 
2 hours later…
3:27 AM
@MarkI So "class: make object! [foo: does []] instance: make object! reduce/no-set [class: class]" would be effectively achieved by "instance: make object! [class: make object! [foo: does []]]", right?
 
3:49 AM
0
A: Parsing string input for keywords followed by content

johnkHere is another variant. str: {HEAD stuff here GET more stuff here POST other stuff here GET even more stuff here PUT still more stuff here POST random stuff} results: ["HEAD" [] "GET" [] "POST" [] "PUT" []] possible-verbs: [ "HEAD" | "GET" | "POST" | "PUT" | end ] parse/all str [ some [ ...

 
 
3 hours later…
6:54 AM
I have some R2 scripts that use ODBC to read excel spreadsheets. They work fine on win 7, but on Win 10 I just can't get ODBC to work against Excel 2016 32bit. No problems accessing SQLite via ODBC on Win 10. So I'm at a loss as to know what the issue is. Anyone using ODBC on Win10 with Rebol?
I suppose it could some incompatability with an updated Excel driver. I have tried ms query with no problems accessing these sheets. Don't think I have anything else to test with.
 
7:19 AM
There is a R3 host-kit ODBC extension but it will need some updating to work with Ren-c.
 
@Brett just curious, what updating?
 
@rebolek I think the code uses funct, which does not exist in ren-c.
 
@Brett I see, that could be done with simple replace I guess.
 
Yes, I assume it can be ported.
My scripts are pretty clunky and I should have a better approach, then again porting this odbc to ren-c might be useful as added testing (don't know).
 
 
1 hour later…
8:35 AM
@Brett I don't know when I'm actually going to be able to sync my branch into master...so why don't we go ahead and get your header conversion run when you are ready. The one thing I suggested changing was setting it so that it had the file meta information up top before the Apache license text.
This probably means folding those first two lines in as the first two lines of meta information somehow. Project: (...) and Homepage: (...) maybe?
 
 
3 hours later…
11:27 AM
@MarkI The goal remains, I believe, to push as much the model of being any specific thing away from the core...and keep it shapeable. If someone wants to make an OOP-styled thing with this pointers and inheritance, or whatever idea, you should be able to make it.
 
11:47 AM
@ShixinZeng That is indeed exactly the idea.
@HostileFork Yes. And as far as paradigms go, I recognize that prototype-based object systems lack the maturity of class-based ones.
That is to say that in some senses they are still "evolving". Okay, most senses. Maybe all of them.
 
>> append [a b c] []
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [a b c]
 
>> append [a b c] any [if 1 > 2 [d] false]
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [a b c none]
 
Knowing that's supposed to be a NONE! value and not the word none, should the non-append/only behavior of APPEND consider a NONE! value to mean "don't append anything" with needing /only to add it? Is a NONE! at least as "I don't want to add anything"-like as an empty block?
With a nicer visual notation for the literal as _, probably best to consider it purposeful. You can always say append [a b c] opt any [if 1 > 2 [d] false]
 
12:03 PM
@HostileFork Even though there are many places where none is equivalent to [], notably FIND, I'd hesitate to maximally extend that.
Mostly because it features prominently in Rebol documentation that "Rebol is not Lisp. The empty block is not NIL.", but there are other reasons.
 
>> find [a #[unset!] b c] ()
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [unset! b c]
 
Bleah. Well obviously that's changing. Regardless of what it's named, I guess I'm preferring to think of _ as BLANK!.
A thing that is a valid item to use in dialecting and whatever, but which just so happens to be conditionally false.
So find [a _ b c] _ => [_ b c]
 
>> find [a none b c] none
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== none
 
12:08 PM
Uh, that's ... wrong, I think.
 
>> find [a #[none!] b c] none
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [none b c]
 
Ah.
>> find [a none b c] 'none
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== [none b c]
 
So, not wrong. Just hard to read :)
Hrm. So #[none] is OK as the first argument to FIND, where it means "nothing". And it is OK as the second argument, where it means "something".
I love nothing! It is so easy to reason about!
Well, if nothing else, find [a none b c] none could be a nice instructional example for the use/mention differentiation in some Rebol intro doc.
 
12:16 PM
I think the _ literal form helps a lot with that particular confusion, which has been perpetuated by the poor molding behavior.
 
I'd prefer such literal forms not be in lexical conflict with words. Perhaps #_, we could stipulate that issues/refinements can't begin with _.
Then we could have semi-literate literals #_true #_false #_unset, which IMO are easier to see than their blocky versions.
 
It's not a lexical conflict if you say that _ isn't a legal word. 1 isn't a legal word either, but a1 is.
true and false remain as irritants, to the point of making me question if the logic! type is really that necessary or if one can live without it. :-/
 
@HostileFork Maybe I meant visual conflict. It's a conflict anyway, you have to give me that.
 
So is 1 and a1.
 
No, 1 and 11 would be. And A and AA. Or at least it is a different kind of conflict IMO ...
But the reason I brought up # is that we have more freedom in the issue space, they are new in Rebol 3.
Whatever, just an idea, feel free to dismiss it with your usual amount of prejudice :)
 
12:30 PM
I think _ is a valuable part to have in the box. It's nice to have it not be ugly to denote one of the basic types, and to turn it into something that can find uses in dialects.
True could be :-) and false could be :-(
Which works in Plan -4, because :-(a b c) isn't legal.
either :-( [
    print "yay!"
][
    print "oh noes."
]
>> true
:-)

>> false
:-(
I've actually seen :> used in places and mistaken it for a smiley.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:53 PM
> Upon closer examination of the data, a trend emerges: Developers increasingly prefer spaces as they gain experience. Stack Overflow reputation correlates with a preference for spaces, too: users who have 10,000 rep or more prefer spaces to tabs at a ratio of 3 to 1.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:27 PM
 
@ShixinZeng Ah. Interestingly enough, I deleted that optimization on my current branch as part of a simplification, based on the idea that "that sort of thing" could happen!
Without noticing that thing in particular.
Feel free to do that.
 
You mean to just get rid of the "goto" line?
 
   if (IS_END(f->param)) {
        //
        // There are no arguments, so just skip the next section.  We
        // know that `param` contains an END marker so the GC
        // won't crash on it.  The Dispatch_Call() will ovewrite both
        // `arg` and `refine`.
        //
        goto function_ready_to_call;
    }
Whole thing, and you can probably get rid of function_ready_to_call: the label too
 
I am curious why not every functions with zero parameters hits this line
 
Definitional RETURN: and LEAVE:
The FUNCTION [] / FUNC [] / PROCEDURE [] / PROC [] may have no arguments, but there is a local RETURN or LEAVE word in the frame.
a MAKE FUNCTION! [[][...]] would hit it, as would a FUNC [<no-return>]
 
4:36 PM
Got it, we have such functions in the application
We did this because we save some of the GUI in a file, and load it when it starts
In the saved file, they are all "make function![]"
And because the file is saved from a R3-Alpha, there would be no "return:" or "leave:" in there
 
I see. Well, as you probably know not everything can be serialized like that... you lose bindings.
(Even if the mold worked all the time, which it doesn't quite.)
 
You mean losing bindings as in inner objects?
 
well just that when you mold out [a a] and load it back in, they might have been different a's but it won't know. Note also that because of the way the returns work, the version of the function you load back in won't be getting the "native boost"
From Ren-C if you look at the source of a function, it gives the appearance that there is a return function defined inside them.
It acts like that, but when you use FUNC (or function, which uses func) then it does it in an optimized way. There's nothing that scans LOAD-time patterns for it and uses the optimization if it finds a match
Though there could be
 
    REBOL []

    recycle/torture

    crash: make function! [[]
    	  print "didn't crash"
    ]
    crash
The code above crashes the interpreter by hitting the goto line
So dumping code using 'mold' is not a good idea?
 
@ShixinZeng Well, it doesn't work in a universal or generic sense...and I'd be surprised if there were all that many scenarios that were sufficiently self-contained to the point where it would work.
But that's true just of molding anything
Rebol code is a data structure created by an imperative process of juggling bindings around, and it quickly gets "annotated" beyond its source form if you're going to execute it.
The bindings are part of that annotation, and they don't mold out
 
4:52 PM
I think it worked for us because we basically only dumped objects
It still crashed after removing the goto lines, I will take a closer look after lunch
 
'k, thanks for looking at it!
 
@ShixinZeng You'd still need /ALL of course
 
@ShixinZeng Hm, well it doesn't crash on my branch, but there are a lot of things different on my branch.
 
5:28 PM
Found it, it was a NULL dereference in my changes
 
 
3 hours later…
8:48 PM
Fixed some bugs in Emscripten build! Please find others ... ;-)
 
9:19 PM
@giuliolunati It looks like b:[/dup] b/1 works, did you figure out what was happening there?
 
9:47 PM
@HostileFork yes! Passed wrong NULL pointer as out in in Do_String, but without SAFE_HEAP=1 Emscripten doesn't check segfaults. Now fixed.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:56 PM
@HostileFork I'll have a look at it.
 

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