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7:09 PM
@Morwenn It's... ok. Odd video template. On my playlist of late: Delta-S, Cesium_137
 
@HostileFork I find the kicks too loud. After listening to it a few times, it gets better but it's better to think of it as another song, not as a remix :)
The second video you linked isn't available.
 
@Morwenn Works here. Alternate
 
The first song sounds a bit like indusrial electro, but less loud.
 
@MarkI Rebol is supposed to be a populist language, and throwing in words like morpheme are not going to be good for accessibility.
And even worse are things like kwatz! from "World" which only take the crackpot associations the language has and fly it like a flag. :-/
 
@HostileFork Wow, the intro is great :o
 
7:27 PM
I wonder if we could get away with replacing word! with bare-word!, and have word! be a typeset.
Just a thought, no doubt easily shot down.
 
@Morwenn Frenetic and Hallucinogen-ish, there are some people who make a lot of that. :-) I tend to not be able to focus with that much going on. (Since the videos generally don't add a lot image-wise, if you want to share a link to music put them in Markdown links so they don't take up as much pagespace...)
 
Right, I'll keep that in mind.
 
@MarkI There may be a solution where word! is the class and foo! retakes current word, but bare-word! isn't the name we're looking for.
 
I still need "morpheme" to talk about the lexical structure, though. I hope you're not objecting to that.
 
Other synonyms for the class... term!?
 
7:32 PM
I suggested that, jokingly, above. It's ... very bad.
Worse than token, even.
 
7
Q: What is the exact definition of "Token?"

pencilCakeI have problem to catch the real meaning of the term 'Token.' In terms of software development, can you define it generically? (Does it have different meanings in terms of different contexts and languages?) Thanks!

Token isn't a terrible compromise if symbol? is going to be a test for a unicode character category.
It probably wouldn't get used all that often.
At least, I don't have a lot of occasion to use ANY-WORD! or ANY-WORD?
 
One problem with both token and term is that they are too comp. sci. domain-specific.
But, that problem is actually all over Rebol already.
It's just the language that has that problem the least :)
Which is why I am trying to throw some spoken-language terminology into the mix. Gets the brain off that track, at least.
 
Well if we went further into the lit-bit universe, then it's just a word with set or get attributes.
:(foo bar) becomes a get-paren.
 
Some number of set and get attributes, you mean :)
 
But then ISSUE! as symbol lacks a category.
::(o _ o)::
I think that would be a case where it would be bare, get, set.
 
7:41 PM
Speaking of ISSUE!, I just realized it has exactly the same properties as REFINEMENT!.
Why was that functionality duplicated again? (I know the real answer.)
The only difference is that an issue can go in a path currently ...
 
7:53 PM
Anyway, let's continue with the theories but also with an eye (or even a MarkEye) towards making sure what's there works as advertised in the first place.
I think the SERIES! and POSITION! distinction might be considered more seriesously
 
8:09 PM
Seriesly?
 
It seems that "POSITION! is a SERIES! plus INDEX" is reasonable, the only question is whether series are reified as a type. There may be value in doing so.
It may not be a good day-one idea to expose SERIES! as something you'd get if you--for instance... said s: '[a b c]
But it would cover some situations where implementations require what you passed in to be the head of something.
Or just conceptually you wanted to talk about something while being position-agnostic about it.
But all under the umbrella of "it should be easier to try out ideas"
 
8:41 PM
@Maarten I should mention, if you didn't notice in the code yet, that FFI is disabled by default and replaced with a little "stub" implementation so that we can catch casual errors in the rest of the code that may screw up ROUTINE!/STRUCT!/LIBRARY!
If you are going to link against the "real" ffi then you will need to either follow the directions in the FFI library to build it or get a premade package that lets you say -lffi. I'm not sure what steps that would entail on a mac. And once you've done that, you'll need to -DHAVE_LIBFFI_AVAILABLE in your compiler switches so that it gets used.
Shixin is thinking about what it might take to "extract" the FFI code, at least enough of it to build on the platforms in which we are interested without needing to deal with any third party build configuration. This is how everything else has been done and why the build is so self-contained.
And I will mention that you would be the first to use the FFI lib on the mac should you get it to work.
 
Just a quick Q @HostileFork, does r3-g25033f8 support ROUTINE! and friends? IOW, did my TCC build build such a beast ...
 
@MarkI The only support you'll find for ROUTINE! and friends is in the Atronix builds for mac/windows...or in Ren/C in theory if you did the library installation and modifications to the build process to link in libffi.
 
@HostileFork Thanks, that sounds ... hefty.
 
And in Rebol2.
It's not terribly hefty
The code itself, at least, is fairly small. Problem is it uses GNU autotools which suck
You might be able to get a precompiled FFI library from somewhere
@MarkI did you see @earl's test numbers for the build times?
 
Yah. Funny.
 
8:53 PM
I've got a little bit of thunderstorm time here where I turned the desktop OFF and am wireless and unplugged to not code for a little bit. So I wonder, what it might look like to use generative C programming in Rebol.
Just because Rebol is self contained in terms of the TCC binary, it still needs to be able to find the headers and such. Would it fetch the headers out of a compressed embedding in the executable?
Presumably it would, so there'd be no stdio.h on your disk...but it would be in the EXE and the embedded TCC would know that
Then have an option, if you wished, to extract the environment to a directory so you could edit and override the files.
But as with Red, the clean solution would be to be able to do the whole build in memory...so your program produces a STRING! of source and then the compilation and all its steps just go into series and such without touching the disk.
I guess that building to a temporary directory and using the ordinary dlopen/loadlibrary is probably the best way of making the actual code-load "invisible". Building to a binary! and then loading it is one of those code page / data page security issues that you can't get away with these days.
 
9:57 PM
@HostileFork getting some zzzz time, but as far as libffi goes - don't underestimate the power of HomeBrew on OSX to have people set up, well basically everything (especially dependencies)
 
@Maarten If you know how to use such things, then great. If you know C coding and build configuring along with Rebol, even better... as we'd like to really get a Rebol-built-with-Rebol-only going here soon.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:07 PM
@MarkI I keep saying Mac/Windows when I mean Linux/Windows. I'm not used to putting Linux/Windows together.
 
11:32 PM
@earl Dangit. Can we just rename that ENDIAN_LITTLE and ENDIAN_BIG to LITTLE_ENDIAN and BIG_ENDIAN? :-/ Unless we're trying to appeal to a Spanish developer audience...in English...we don't need postfix adjectives.
 
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