« first day (1722 days earlier)      last day (2058 days later) » 
02:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

2:45 AM
posted on July 19, 2015 by klausnrooster

Does it indicate anything other than people are busy coding away?

 
@HostileFork In between doing some other things:
---------------------------------------------------------------
REBOL [
{git filter-branch -f --msg-filter 'cat > message.temp && /c/testy/r3-make.exe /c/testy/filter.reb ${PWD}' -- --all}
]

change-dir to-rebol-file system/script/args

rules: [
some [to "#" remove thru "#" skip]
]

;Debug purposes - do not use on actual
;prin what-dir

commit-message: read %message.temp
parse commit-message rules
prin to-string commit-message
-----------------------------------------------------
This will blindly remove all '#' from the repo
Note the example command line in the header.
If you want to make the script smarter, go ahead.
 
 
5 hours later…
7:31 AM
A year ago I wrote a script to automate the login to SO, at github.com/gchiu/Rebol3/blob/master/scripts/loginso.reb
I thought I'd try it to see what the issue with the new authentication scheme was.
But if I use the latest r3-32-view client from atronix, I get an error that wait doesn't have a refinement of /only
And if I use an different client, I get an error on submitting about err not having a vaue :(
is there a matrix on which gui clients work with which gui?
 
7:52 AM
@GrahamChiu Hm, Ren/C has an /only on WAIT....and it's based on Atronix...
Are you sure you're running the right executable in your path or whatever?
 
yes
 
Maybe the windows version doesn't have it :-/
But that would be strange, I don't know any natives that are conditional like that
Does HELP WAIT show /only but then it just isn't working?
 
>> help wait
USAGE:
WAIT value /all

DESCRIPTION:
Waits for a duration, port, or both.
WAIT is a native value.

ARGUMENTS:
value (number! time! port! block! none!)

REFINEMENTS:
/all -- Returns all in a block
 
@iceflow19 Cool, I will try that when I get back to that...! Thanks.
 
just downloaded it from atronix site now - r3-32-view.exe
** Build: 12-May-2014/13:35:30
 
7:57 AM
12-May-2014 (?)
That seems awfully old
 
oh, I'll try one of the development builds instead
ahh, that's better
/only now appears
would be nice if they indicated build dates by each download.
And is there a string in the /version that indicates which persons a build belongs to?
Hmm. Back to this error

** Script error: err: needs a value
** Where: actor all foreach do-actor unless do-face if actor all foreach do-acto
r if do-event do-event if do-event either -apply- wake-up either while -apply- w
ait forever try do-events if view actor all foreach do-actor unless do-face if a
ctor all foreach do-actor if do-event do-event if do-event either -apply- wake-u
p either while -apply- wait forever try do-events if view catch either either -a
pply- do
** Near: actor face :data
<sigh>
 
You're officially in the "I have no idea" territory.
That looks to be something internal to R3-gui
 
Yeah
that's why the <sigh>
 
I can clone it and look for instances of err: in the code and try to guess
 
I guess there's no other GUI around yet?
 
8:06 AM
Ren Garden is the basis from which one could build one.
 
what's ren garden again?
 
And do so fairly rapidly for all platforms
 
that's 20 mins!
what's the executive summary?
 
@GrahamChiu The executive summary is watch it, you can skip to 5 minutes in and see if it holds your attention.
 
8:34 AM
@HostileFork You might enjoy cats which have currently taken over Gitter.
 
9:00 AM
They're gone now. Oh well. Maybe they should perform maintenance more often.
 
@WiseGenius Cats do seem to take things down. Well, so have you read through the new Ren/C README.md?
 
9:28 AM
I have now. Looks like everything's going in the right direction.
 
@WiseGenius Hopefully. Do feel free to crack out your friendly neighborhood compiler and take a shot at fixing or documenting or doing something with it...
 
9:51 AM
@WiseGenius should one be able to take the LENGTH? of a word type? I don't particularly like it, because it's not clear if you want the length including the word-signal-character (is length? quote foo: 3 or 4?)
There's a bug in it with unicode handling but I feel like instead of fixing it, you should use some string-conversion routine to say what you mean to take the length of first.
spelling-of vs. to-string etc.
So if you wanted 3 you would say length? spelling-of quote foo:
And currently I'm thinking if you wanted 4 you would say length? to-string quote foo:
 
@HostileFork I don't like length? taking a word! either because I think word!s and string!s should be treated differently. to-string and to-word can always be used when needed.
 
@WiseGenius Great. Fast-track Rebol Congress committee on what to do about the unicode bug in length of words has reached a unanimous conclusion. :-)
 
Haha!
 
I'm not sure about spelling-of. I assume you mean to use it in place of to-string to-word?
 
10:03 AM
spelling-of is an operation for unambiguously saying you don't want the delimiters or markers on something
So spelling-of <foo> is just the 3-character string "foo"
And spelling-of quote foo: is as well. No colon.
to-string in my current idea takes the place of FORM.
It gives a string representation but does not do construction syntax
So to-string reverse http://hostilefork.com comes back as simply moc.krofelitsoh//:ptth
Whereas source reverse http://hostilefork.com would have to make a construction syntax (where source is my double-back to source from save as mold replacement, even if people think it's too verby. length is verby too, and we don't want to say length-of because of its commonness. head, tail, etc. I think source will be used enough to warrant the "abuse" as much as those)
Of course, in NewPath reverse http://hostilefork.com is the path hostilefork.com//http:
 
So what is spelling-of http://hostilefork.com?
 
@WiseGenius I'd say it would just come back the same. So would spelling-of "abcd" return the 4-character string "abcd"
The idea of "spelling-of" being willing to stringify is an interesting one, so spelling-of [a b c] being "a b c"
It suggests that perhaps spelling-of quote a/b/c being "a b c" because you would be removing the delimiters as participants in the content for purposes of spelling.
But I don't know if it should be processing block types, possibly just a recipe for error and confusion.
 
10:19 AM
posted on July 19, 2015 by fork

[Bug] Currently there is a bug in the action A_LENGTHQ of words where it gives back the length in bytes of the UTF-8 string instead of the length of the actual word. https://github.com/rebol/rebol/blob/25033f897b2bd466068d7663563cd3ff64740b94/src/core/t-word.c#L86 While it could be changed to do a decoding and give back the unicode length, there is a question of what exactly the intent was.

 
If NewPath is to exist, then we really need a not-terrible way of writing URL string constants. @http://hostilefork.com was something I thought was not too bad, but now we've got some other hang-ups about that.
It reads almost naturally... visit our page @ http://hostilefork.com => @http://hostilefork.com
Then if you say url: @http://hostilefork.com print [{Visit our page at} url] it would say Visit our page at http://hostilefork.com. So basically the way the % works for files.
Then open up http://hostilefork.com and other paths to have a set-word! in the first slot, and their processing is to turn into a URL! constant through processing. Again, as FILE! does.
Now you have nearly the best of both worlds. If you want a static non-composable non-processing URL that isn't built out of useful Tinker-Toy parts and has all the magic of... another string type... use @http://whatever
If you want the real magic... at a cost (not so much computational cost, but seeing PATH! in the slot when doing homoiconic reflection and then having to process it to know what it "would become")... use a PATH!
Basically you have to DO a PATH! to get what it's going to be. Possible risks with that. So it's a tradeoff as to whether you should use a URL! literal instead. But that's how it is with everything else... a block of code or parens you need to run.
I feel like the importance of getting this right can't be overstated. "Hey it's another type of string" is okay but it isn't a revolution in software methodology.
 
10:49 AM
Blocks in paths would COMBINE (cough join). Parens (cough groups) in paths would, as today, evaluate under DO and be equal to their last evaluated value.
Opening up features like:
scheme: either secure [quote https:] [quote http:]
domain: "hostilefork"
tld: '.com
read (scheme)//[domain tld]
now we're talking.
The interesting bit being, this is not far off.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:49 PM
posted on July 19, 2015 by qtxie

FEAT: added support for single-line comments inside binary data FEAT: added support for base 2 and base 64 binary in compiler FEAT: added debase native function

 
1:04 PM
Ren/C++ patches to work with Ren/C are now in with tests passing, still have to figure out what's making Ren Garden unhappy.
And it seems HTTPS is broken in some way that the Atronix build is not broken, so with Ren/C++ changes in I will now make figuring out why that's happening the first order of business.
I wonder how much Rebol would be hurt if there were no lit-words or lit-paths, and you had to use quote like for everything else... then apostrophe were repurposed for something more interesting.
Just as a thought. Because while quote x and 'x are different in the sense that one requires the evaluator and one does not (so you can use the latter one in dialects and get the literalness gloss within one token), it might be that when push comes to shove a more interesting usage for apostrophe exists that a dialect would appreciate more.
I have no idea, but it just occurs to me in the space of "well why isn't there a LIT-SET-WORD!", and it becomes this very selectively used thing that probably reads better a lot of the time as the full word "quote". Certainly easier to see.
scheme: either secure [quote https:] [quote http:]
domain: "hostilefork"
tld: quote .com
read (scheme)//[domain tld]
Is that truly worse ? In a different universe, would this be better?
scheme: either secure 'https: 'http:
domain: "hostilefork"
tld: '.com
read (scheme)//[domain tld]
Language-wise, whether something is quoted or not could be a property of anything when you put an apostrophe on it. So it would still be whatever type it was, but you could ask "but is it literal" as a second question. quoted? plus word? would mean what we think of today as a LIT-WORD!, but you could test for the two properties independently.
Then give that property to all types to do with in the dialect as you wish, including to ignore it.
'{string} could mean something different from {string}. Hard to see with '"asdf" so never mold it out that way, even on short strings...
Or perhaps disallow quoting on non-word non-any-block types.
Literal blocks could override the evaluation on things like IF so you don't need to use IF/ONLY. code: if condition '[print "Hello"]
COMPOSE could do a mutation step so that it would evaluate non-literal parens, but turn any literal parens it found into ordinary parens.
compose [(1 + 2) '(3 + 4)] => [3 (3 + 4)]
I guess literal? is probably better than quoted?, because it would be confusing to say x: quote thing and then have quoted? x come back false.
Backwards-compatibility could be mitigated a bit with an operation for lit-word? that would check both literal? and word?. Other backwards compatibility could actually benefit from the switch from type? to type-of... e.g. type? would give you the word LIT-WORD!.
It wouldn't be a datatype! any longer, so if you really relied on that you'd be out of luck.
Seems a shame not to offer it on all types as a marker. Just because Rebol wouldn't have any particular cleverness to apply to a "Literal Integer" doesn't mean someone else might not think of a meaning for that which is interesting.
'100
It may be the case that this should take double-quote, and strings single-quote. When jostling between single and double quoted strings in languages that permitted either, I found that I liked the look of the code better when single quotes were used. It seemed less 'noisy' somehow
code: if condition "[print 'Hello']
Eh. Double quotes also look too much like two single quotes in a row.
I'm feeling a little bit moved to seriousness by noting the compose trick above. That would be... very helpful. Composing parse rules is rather bad right now.
@MarkI feel free to throw in opinions from the lexer side
 
1:41 PM
@HostileFork Working on it
 
I might say that prohibiting the literal form when you use double quoted strings would be all right to do.
So you'd have to use braced ones if you wanted a literal "bit" on it.
 
There are some difficulties
 
Because I don't want people writing '"foo" and me having to figure out if they slipped a literal in there.
 
I think we have to emphasize visual coding, and de-emphasize character coding
So I would be against expecting anyone to be able to tell the difference between "' and '", for example
 
Also, if you write block: '[a b c], is that block literal?
 
1:45 PM
What about quoted lit-words?
 
If not, then the only way code: if condition '[print "Hello"] can do anything different than code: if condition [print "Hello"] is if it quotes its body argument.
That means it would be taking responsibility for evaluations in general, e.g. if you passed it a paren... the paren would have to be evaluated by IF.
@MarkI There wouldn't be lit-words, is part of the point.
 
I think it is a mistake to call 'abc a quoted word.
 
Just a word? that is also literal?
I don't think there's anything wrong with if/unless/either quoting their code block parameters and doing something different with '[code] than [code]. There's already parallel cases, and it seems it might be genuinely useful.
@MarkI Yes, literal? is better
 
A lit-word is a thing, a "real object", not an evaluated form
So if you want a "quote-like" thing that applies (evaluates on) to anything, then either it has to apply to lit-words or lit-words cease to be a thing.
 
I don't really understand why a lit-word would need to be a thing when you have literalness that can be applied to anything, including word!
As long as it is atomic and can be passed around, and tested for literal? and tested for word?, you haven't lost anything interesting. That being my argument.
 
1:51 PM
I am not making myself clear, sorry. You can tell because I am using the word "thing".
 
Well you'd have to show me a compelling case where something important is lost. While I realize that removing a type loses you a part out of the box, and then you come up with a modifier that applies on all the rest of the parts with that part missing you may have "lost something"... the motivator for the proposal is saying the thing wasn't as useful as what emerges from this process of replacement
 
Let us say we now have your "atomic passable" type that can be tested for literal and for word.
What happens if you quote it?
What is its textual (external) form?
 
@MarkI Nothing, same as today on lit-word.
It keeps its value and is not evaluated.
 
''a = 'a?
(That's two single quotes)
 
If you're going to talk about the world I'm talking about, there simply is no ''a.
You can quote 'a as you can today, and get back a value that is both literal? and word?, thus bypassing what you get in the evaluator from 'a which would be a value that is word? only
 
1:54 PM
So ' is an operator that can apply to anything but things it already applies to?
 
There's only one literal flag in value. It is either set or not.
By default, it is not set.
Lexically you would be able to write in source code a value that has the bit set by preceding it with '
There may be programmatic ways to flip the bit on and off of a value you have in your hand without copying it
set-literal x true and set-literal x false perhaps
 
I think you might have some difficulties with evaluated types like function
 
I could very much use a literal function value.
Something that when encountered, x: (literalfunctionvalue) would not call the function
Rather, it would put that function value into x without the literal flag
Not being able to do that kind of screws Ren/C++ in a few places.
 
That's what get-words are for, aren't they?
 
It's an actual function value, produced by C++ code. It's not stored in a word. I'm trying to put it into a word.
 
2:00 PM
Well, that means I've lost the context for this discussion. I was talking about Rebol code.
 
But all that I can do is call it. The workaround is x: quote (literalfunctionvalue) but I don't always have two slots.
You can create the same situation in Rebol.
If someone gives you a block where they have put a function, let's say compose [(:print)] and that's all you have...
You've got a block with a function value in it. Now get it out and store it in a word.
 
Anyway, all this stuff about what things can be, or when things are, evaluated or quoted, needs MUCH more formalism BEFORE it can be discussed IMO.
@HostileFork Erm, first doesn't do the trick for you?
 
Okay not quite the right example, but there is an example, didn't get it right off the top of my head...let me look it up when I wrote it up
1
Q: How to avoid function invocation in COMPOSE-like circumstances?

HostileForkIn the following code, we can assign the result of a GET-WORD to p through a SET-WORD, and then use it under the new name: p: :print p [{Hello} {World}] But what if you are using COMPOSE, and you find a situation such as this? do compose [p: (:print)] p [{Hello} {World}] That gives an err...

Anyway, I think I'd like to try the idea out to see what the ramifications are. I've already mentioned some of them, namely that lit-quoting a BLOCK! or any other evaluator inert thing doesn't do anything unless you pass it through in a quoted context... or it's part of some block being looked at as a dialect and you use the quote as some "bit" to decide reaction.
Having a literal form for GET-WORD! and SET-WORD! and PAREN! (cough GROUP!) would be useful additions, and we already know that WORD! and PATH! need it so they'd have it and act as they do today.
For everything else it wouldn't mean anything to DO, if allowed.
 
We should probably be using the same terminology as @earl in his responses to the above.
Specifically, you are talking about a literal form for inactive get-word, set-word, and paren values.
 
This will mess with the changes of IF/ONLY some, because it means that if condition '[code] is to come back with [code] then it must quote its argument. That means no more if condition 1 + 2 coming back as 3.
Well if condition is true, it will come back as 3...
And if it's false it will try and add none + 2
 
2:11 PM
Which I believe is exactly what quote is for, and tick is not. Lit-words are not inactive values.
Though you are trying to make them that way!
 
I don't know what you mean by your "what quote is for and tick is not"
 
Quote turns active values into inactive values.
Tick turns words into lit-words.
Claro?
 
Um. Okay? I don't really see how it has bearing on the above. Anyway, if/only already has the if situation solved arguably pretty well, so doing that with tick isn't necessary.
But I was just reasoning through what the implications would be if you wanted IF to be able to react differently to literal blocks vs non, and since blocks are inactive it can't distinguish unless it gets them inside a block or quotes them.
So it's kind of how quote 3 and 3 aren't any different as far as do is concerned, but if you're writing a dialect you could see the quote word and do something different.
 
I can't talk to you about what IF should do with literal blocks if there were literal blocks. You can guess why, right?
 
Uh. If it doesn't quote its arguments...it wouldn't know the difference?
 
2:16 PM
:)
 
if/only is the more general solution and doesn't wind up with weird quote semantics. Perhaps prior to if/only (and the related change to not requiring blocks) one could argue "it always takes a block, so why not quote?"
 
Since there are no literal blocks, we have to agree on what they are before we can talk about what IF should do with them.
 
They're blocks with a flag on them that is completely meaningless to the DO dialect, yet other dialects may ascribe meaning if they wish.
Don't you think the compose idea is fairly compelling? We've had this problem where you can't compose things very easily if they have parens in them.
If there were a literal? paren, compose might (by default) turn them into ordinary parens as it goes but not evaluate them... while it evaluates the non-literal? parens...
A behavior you might turn off if you want to do some kind of multiple compose pass, leaving the literals alone each time.
(Until the last pass where you say, okay this time don't protect them)
The idea of making it part of compose just allows for performant behavior, and common scenario. Turning literal parens into parens could be a separate operation
deliteralize/deep/types [...] [paren! word!]
 
I run into this all the time with you. You make assumptions, then reach conclusions, then extend those conclusions, then propose something based on those extended conclusions, then ask me whether it makes lexical sense. When I respond negatively, and give careful reasoning, you change one of your assumptions and thereby not only make my response look ridiculous but also all the time I spent reasoning about it.
So forgive me if I like to define terms before I can talk about them.
 
Nothing ridiculous said here imo.
 
2:22 PM
I understand it's part of debate, and I love it don't get me wrong.
 
My proposal is mechanical, and can be understood under the mechanics of the formalism.
 
I just prefer debate to be as solidly grounded as possible.
 
Mechanical step 1: Get rid of types LIT-WORD! and LIT-PATH! (some ideas or legacy support of them and their named routines is possible, let's not get that in the mix yet)
Mechanical step 2: Reserve a bit in every value type... a bit in the header... for whether that value is LITERAL?
In the evaluator's Do_Next for any time it hits a value with the literal? bit set (in the block it's evaluating...not fetched via word), then evaluate to that same value without the literal bit set.
(Should the value be fetched from a word or the result of a function, its literalness or non-literalness is irrelevant. It is passed as-is.)
Mechanical step 3: Add literal? function for testing this bit, and presumably some functions for setting and clearing it.
So now our question lexically is how to say you want a source token, when loaded as a value, to have the literal bit set...without having to run some operation on it to load it plainly and then mutate it.
 
Now we're getting somewhere. You are talking about new evaluator behaviour, I didn't get that before.
Because what you are describing is *not* how DO works on lit-words and lit-paths right now, you do see that right?
 
Well, having worked on the evaluator, I'd disagree and say that is how it works.
For the types that implicitly encode this bit. It obviously doesn't have a bit, just an idea of two types that encode it as part of being that type.
LIT-WORD! and LIT-PATH!
 
2:29 PM
DO of a LIT-PATH! is a LIT-PATH! right now.
 
What DO the native does vs. what Do_Next does are different; so conflating DO with "the evaluator" is not quite correct.
DO is "the DO native" and Do_Next is "The Rebol evaluator"
Given the macro discussion and motivation, I want us to go back and figure out why RETURN/REDO was killed.
 
@HostileFork I know why, and I heartily disagree.
 
With the ` \ ` expression barrier
I think some of the objections to having variable arity functions are fixed a bit
 
If the "expression barrier" ever stops being purely semantic sugar then all hope is lost.
As has been said before (by @earl IIANM), might as well end all lines with semicolon and bracket every function call.
I think it is cool that we can simulate expression breaks, don't get me wrong, but I would never use it.
But back to the quoting discussion for a brief moment:
>> x: 'x do/next 'a/b x
Oops, forgot bots are on strike. But when I try the above, I get == 'a/b.
 
You don't have to use it. It's just a literal unset.
 
2:41 PM
@HostileFork I know, but it sounded like you were going to use it as an argument for resurrecting /REDO.
 
Hm. I wonder if quote could default to not taking unsets unless you said quote/any
 
I want to resurrect /REDO, but not if I have to use expression barriers to do so.
 
@MarkI No, you don't, but see Ladislav's objection here:
4
A: Why does return/redo evaluate result functions in the calling context, but block results are not evaluated?

LadislavWhile the question originally asked why return/redo did not evaluate blocks, there were also formulations like: "is cool because you can do things like tail call optimization", "[can write] a wrapper for the return functionality", "it seems to be getting more and more useful the more we think abo...

 
Sorry, I meant >> x: 'x do/next quote 'a/b x above.
 
Anyway, oh where was I. Right. Fixing HTTPS... I should return to it. Well, let the lit-bit proposal simmer a while. I find that there's often no quicker way to understand the ramifications of a proposal than to try it and see what it breaks.
 
2:45 PM
@HostileFork If you are saying "expression barriers might make it more clear to the programmer where the variadic function call ends" then I agree.
 
So if Lit-Bit were implemented but not adding any more source literals, so it really was just lit-bit on WORD! and PATH!, then it would call out places that would not be able to accommodate that...if there are any
 
But IIRC the reason /REDO was scrapped was because it permits variadic function calls AT ALL, not just hard-to-parse ones.
 
Well, since we're here talking about it and I sort of missed it, let's look and see what happened.
Here's Carl being glad it's gone: github.com/rebol/rebol/commit/…
Here's BrianH explaining: curecode.org/rebol3/ticket.rsp?id=2121
 
Which IMO is a joke, because you can't know if [a b c] is a(b(c)) or a(b) c until you look at a's spec.
 
Well I think the argument is "adds additional uncertainty on top of that minimal certainty which you get by reading the spec"
Basically, "it's already hard enough, and the one anchor you have is the spec" which could reasonably be (in an intelligent IDE) applied to give you some hinting.
There's little an intelligent person or IDE can do to help you when the arity can go arbitrary through re-evaluation.
I suppose I can be sympathetic to that. But it sounds like the macro pushers want exactly this kind of uncertainty.
If they are to get it, RETURN/REDO is one of the simple implementation methods for getting something along the lines they want.
 
2:53 PM
IMO static code analysis can only go so far. For example, it goes as far as the call to parse, then fails miserably after that.
 
@rebolek You see the idea above about turning literal? into a bit set in the value header that could be applied to anything, and then changing it so you can do compose [(1 + 2) '(3 + 4)] and have it evaluate non-literal parens but turn literal ones into ordinary parens? e.g. [3 (3 + 4)]? That could be useful...
 
@HostileFork So you would have lit-paren! type?
 
@rebolek Nope, you'd have PAREN! and then you could test it for literal? and get back true or false.
Perhaps there could be a refinement on the type check like PAREN?/ONLY
Or bias it the other way with PAREN?/ANY
 
Hm, interesting...I have to think about it.
 
IOW static code analysis + interpreted language = disaster. But I've said that before ...
 
2:57 PM
Well, maybe the thing to do before getting gung-ho on reviving RETURN/REDO is to wait-and-see what the macro pressures and thinking wind up doing over on Red.
 
@HostileFork Good idea.
 
So I've added a pre-commit hook to Ren/C++ to keep tabs out of it.
I guess Ren/C needs one for now that keeps tabs in it. :-/
 
@HostileFork yep, that will be my first contribution.
 
Yawn... Morning folks!
 
@iceflow19 Yip.
@moliad Do note what I suggest, which is that we can get a lot of IDE files if we can just get it to do CMake.
 
3:10 PM
@HostileFork Did you give my script a test run?
 
don't know about CMake.
 
@iceflow19 I starred it so I could find it when I get back to that task item... looks like there's a HTTPS problem and it blocked @GrahamChiu from getting the bots going again, so that's my highest priority besides killing LIT-WORD and LIT-PATH and making a Lit-Bit on anything.
 
I had ran it over a test repo I put together from some of shixin's commits.
@HostileFork Understandable.
 
@moliad CMake has a bit of a rebol-ish attitude in terms of it's one executable built for lots of platforms, and a lot of projects use it because it does much of what GNU autotools does but better. It has a clunky syntax which makes a poor first impression since it's old and clunky, so doing a RMake Rebol reboot of it would be nice. I've investigated that.
But once you have a CMakeLists.txt file in the wonky CMake syntax, it has a lot it knows how to do with it. Including building IDE projects for several IDEs
 
nice.
 
3:13 PM
And it does a bunch of package auto-finding and configuration
For an example, see Ren Garden / Ren/C++:
@moliad Did you ever watch the Ren Garden video?
 
I have SDK licenses, so I could easily encap rmake.
@HostileFork nope. have not been in the public for almost 6 months.. have been working like a mad scientist in a cave on very complex stuff for work.
 
@moliad Ah, well, you might find it interesting. :-)
As you do C (C++?) as well, you might want to watch from the beginning... I tend to skip the beginning for Rebol audiences.
 
concerning Cmake, I could just do a big dialect for it which takes in Our own dialect and spits out a Cmake file which it automatically lauches .
@HostileFork will look at it later. I am considering using C++ in parts of my other projects, though I really hate most of the OO and operator overloading stuff it adds to C. I do like a lot of the C stuff it improves though.
am just doing a drive by while I have a few minutes... will have a bit more time tomorrow... (i.e. I'll actually get around to starting a new project and compiling the latest distro)... might look into Cmake, to get it to build the msvc files, if it can do so.
 
@moliad Cool. Well, here's the place to be for all that for now
 
@HostileFork I already have a debugger system built for R2, which includes run-time function metric compilation, (function use count, fastest/slowest time delta for every function), which you can inspect at any time.
 
3:27 PM
@moliad Given as many things as I'm looking at ATM, I haven't tried doing a visual debugger yet, but I have some ideas for putting one into Ren Garden.
 
I want to add a lot of functionality to it, but first step is to convert my entire and massive library and dev tool (such as slim/slap/configurator/slink/etc to R3), Then I'll have to convert my elemental tools such as liquid/stone/steel to get them R3 compatible.
2
 
Good times. :-) I think possibly the best Rebol3/Rebol2 "porting guide" out there is the list of SO questions I had while porting Red to Rebol3: github.com/red/red/pull/421
If you find something, even if you can find the answer yourself, asking as an SO question (again, even if you answer it yourself) gives an opportunity to put up more institutional knowledge
 
@HostileFork its very easy to do in Rebol since you can redefine every part of the language, even function creation. without it affecting the source it runs. just adding a hook in my slim debugger, would allow me to do interactive code stepping and break points... something I could implement in about one or two hours, if the rest of the environment is done (the gui and app).
@HostileFork yep.
gtg, will be back late tonight, or tomorrow. I really hate this non threaded chat room ... even if I like its actual chat engine.
 
@moliad It's something one can get used to, and the good news is that you can ignore most of it. (But star things if they are important enough to point out.)
Or if you just like what someone said, which is probably what most of it is. :-)
Or if, as with @iceflow19's code above, if I want to bookmark it for later.
"If what you're saying is important, you should probably say it somewhere else."
"Or say it here, and then after deciding it's important, say it somewhere else."
 
btw, one thing I will NOT use in R3, is the current library MODULE! system. I see no actual benefit to it. it replicates a dismal non modularized C like global header engine, which only adds automatic search path to loading. no code hiding, no code protection, no barrier, no real technical advantage AFAICT.
unless its been enhanced... which I doubt.
see ya l8r!
 
3:39 PM
@moliad I've been asking for someone to do a write-up of the module system, as I don't really know what it was supposed to do or what it does or doesn't. @rebolek found it frustrating, but then came to terms with it thinking it wasn't so bad. I'm still none the wiser.
Later.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:12 PM
I would like to apologize for my earlier rant HF.
No-one but me makes my arguments look ridiculous.
Please take it simply as me feeling inadequate at not being able to keep up with you.
I am going back to my lexer cave now.
I plan to have some serious contributions and well-formulated questions for the group soon.
@moliad I thought this room was threaded.
There's (the equivalent of) in-reply-to, what more is required to support threading?
 
@MarkI No worries, I can't keep up with me either. :-) Half my ideas turn out to not work anyway (if we're counting ones I just sort of think out loud about, way more than half). But when they do, they can be pretty good.
Though speaking of getting back up to keeping up: @Morwenn ....aaaaaand ... ...weeeee're... ... back!
 
 
2 hours later…
7:05 PM
First pass at a cURL (shell) wrapper for Rebol 3: reb4.me/r3/curl
2
(requires curl in your shell path, natch)
 
@rgchris Nice. :-) But you know what @GrahamChiu says about functions with that many refinements...
(should probably be a dialect...)
 
curl rebol.info
curl/full rebol.info
curl/binary rebol.info
curl/as rebol.info "Ren/C"
curl/method/with rebol.info 'post "Some Post Data"
curl/ etc...
@HostileFork Could be—though could be an option: if you curl [...] then it assumes a dialect. One to consider...
 
Sure. Why not?
 
Really the intent is for prototyping while the HTTP(S) schemes are being hashed out.
 
Looks like Ren/C has buggy handling of HTTPS and can't do things the Atronix build can... and... if I stop messing with other things and get back to it... I'll at least fix that.
Just fixed Call on Windows for @Adrian, had a bug that Ren/C had introduced.
 
7:21 PM
@HostileFork The one issue with a dialect is that most likely the dialect would need be composed/reduced/collected with moderately complex options. Could get quite messy.
 
@rgchris Well if dialecting is too messy to get involved with, and it's the heart of the language, we might should worry (!)
You could use parens if you need evaluation.
So I don't know how different it would be than passing arguments via refinement
We need to think more on this question of variable and keyword overlap. I still feel PARSE shouldn't have taken set-word and get-word for the parse position, and kept that at MARK/SEEK
Being able to have the backup of a get-word for overriding the dialect if it adds a word you'd used as a variable seems helpful
And using the set-word to indicate a variable you want to be collected as local is good too, to distinguish copy x to rule from copy x: to rule
 
Using CURL as a function with refinements is only really a problem if you need to use a lot of them. I don't see it as an area where dialects particularly excel as it's a function generally designed to be used within the context of DO.
(or whatever we call the 'Rebol dialect')
 
Well I don't know, but it would be rather hard if someone wanted to use them all to sort it out. curl/method/with/header/as/user/full/binary/follow/fail/secure/to/error/timeout‌​/local ...
 
I agree.
 
At least when using curl you can see the function you're requesting next to the parameter you want.
So maybe curl url works, but then you do curl/options url [method: ... user: ...]
Take an object, but if you get a block then make object! on it
 
7:30 PM
curl [rebol.info post 0:0:10 secure as "Ren/C" binary content-type: "text/plain"]
Might work better.
 
If it always takes a URL I don't see a problem with that being a first argument
 
@HostileFork The Ruby approach then :)
 
Well a dialect design would be better. But even with a dialect you can have a parameter outside. PARSE doesn't put its input inside the block... it could, but doesn't
But yes, a dialect processed by parse with some rules, that would be neat to see.
Maybe your /with could be used to say you have a dialect to add vs. current purpose.
curl/with http://rebol.info [post 0:0:10 secure as "Ren/C" binary content-type: "text/plain"]
Or just accept curl http://rebol.info []
If you thought wanting options is more frequent than not (especially if the HTTP/HTTPS stuff worked properly...)
But crazy designs aside, just happy if it helps and you can get more work done. :-)
Donations accepted... of time helping me sort out the stupid CSS on hostilefork.com :-/
StyleTalk port, etc.
 
StyleTalk is included in Lest :)
 
Well that doesn't mean I know what to write in it!
 
7:39 PM
Fair enough!
 
Which isn't so much not being a problem with being able to map CSS into StyleTalk, but more a problem of not knowing how to do the CSS stuff Google wants me to do.
I wanted a very, very ordinary looking website that wouldn't cause trouble for search engines/etc.
 
Yeah, that's an area where I'd like StyleTalk to paper over all the bad design choices in CSS—though even then that doesn't address the way that you still have to declare certain things in HTML. M. e. s. s.
 
posted on July 19, 2015 by rgchris

The following is interpreted as a path to a command: >> call {curl http://rebol.info} ** Access error: external process failed: "No such file or directory" ** Where: call ** Near: call "curl http://rebol.info" Tested on 3.0.99.2.5

posted on July 19, 2015 by earl

A small assortment of minor build-related fixes. See the commit titles for an overview (and the messages for more details, where necessary).

posted on July 19, 2015 by earl

A small assortment of minor build-related fixes. See the commit titles for an overview (and the messages for more details, where necessary).

posted on July 19, 2015 by rgchris

CALL breaks if an empty string is passed as input: >> call/input "ls" "" ** Access error: external process failed: "Bad file descriptor" ** Where: call ** Near: call/input "ls" "" Tested on 3.0.99.2.5

 
First Ren/C feed items :D
2
 
02:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

« first day (1722 days earlier)      last day (2058 days later) »