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1:49 AM
Hi @onetom I didn't have include the raw stats as there were not many votes. Let me grab them.
Email!   27.30 % 3
handle!   0.00 % 0
at!   27.30 % 3
name!   0.00 % 0
person!   0.00 % 0
user!   9.10 % 1
username!   27.30 % 3
nick!   9.10 % 1
nickname!   0.00 % 0
Total Respondents 11
 
2:08 AM
still you sounded like your observation/opinion was based on some statistically relevant data...
percentages doesn't mean much in this case; just put the number before the datatype!:

3 email!
0 handle!
3 at!
0 name!
0 person!
1 user!
3 username!
1 nick!
0 nickname!
11 Total
 
% from copy and paste. Difficult to edit on a phone
 
2:48 AM
@HostileFork "wine bar in Mt Airy, Old North State winery and brewery" -- nice.
Catching up on source pulls - from 48 to 16.
Saved the best for last.
 
@rebol They apparently don't brew anymore, so the brewery title is residiual. They grow some grapes but buy others, but say all of the grapes they buy are from North Carolina
@rebol Awesome progress today, it's nice to see how much can be done in a short period of time. I do think that this dev/stable split is important, and if you want a wait-and-see attitude w.r.t. changes that get "blessed" as stable I understand, but we could really fast-track the rate of change if some more people were empowered to push things ahead. I think you would be pleased in general, most of your followers "get" what you would approve or not pretty well.
 
3:10 AM
@rebol I woke up on the chiming sound of my phone notification voice. I was a bit nervous and thinking who the hell is messaging me so early morning on a Sunday... but it turned out to be a very pleasant news and indeed relevant ;D
 
3:21 AM
I mean I was flooded with Github notification emails
 
3:38 AM
Sweet!
 
hmm... it seems we are not following here whats going on in the github repo... i guess because of the repo name change. maybe...
 
3:56 AM
johnk has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
 
@onetom well spotted. I just updated it to what I think it should be.
 
@johnk @onetom does that mean we missed the pretty news updates of Carl accepting changes?
 
@kealist yup. from #56 to #98
and my comment on the tab vs space issue
 
4:11 AM
Will this be pretty different than Saphirion's changes to R3. I'm just trying to understand what the world is like. Is Curecode mostly tracking bugs to change saphirion or the main rebol3 line
?
@johnk thank you
 
 
3 hours later…
7:42 AM
@Rebolbot I cannot sleep, better procrastinate at [Rebol and Red] chat room before heading to bed
 
@AstDerek Can you elaborate on that?
 
@Rebolbot do none
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> none
== none
 
@Rebolbot good night
 
@AstDerek good night to you too
 
7:45 AM
@kealist Saphirion's R3 is mostly mainline plus a few additional fixes. Most of the changes now merged have been merged into Saphirion's R3 already.
@kealist The CureCode instance you are most likely referring to currently tracks two projects: "R3" and "R3-GUI". "R3" is solely about mainline R3. "R3-GUI" is about Saphirion's GUI for R3.
 
of course when i want to update the DNS the freedns.afraid.org is down for maintenance... for hours...
 
8:03 AM
@onetom btw, you can use rebol3 --halt script.r to pre-load a script and use the REPL. (As long as this script doesn't use QUIT.)
 
this jekyllrb.com is ridiculous...
on the 1st try i hit a couple of issues:
1, it doesn't reread it's _config.yml in --watch mode, so when i changed the site's name, it didn't change
2, it generates links to blog posts containing spaces in their names using + but the default webserver (webbrick) doesnt seem to like it... %20 works
3, it doesn't seem to handle .txt files...
@earl thx
 
I just checked and the split behaviour does not seem to include Gregg's fix as listed in issue.cc/r3/1886. Is it easy for someone to get this into the pull list while Carl is reviewing as it would help the parse article that Brett and I have been updating?
 
i also tried the s3_website gem and it just hangs during initial setup (although it does create and configure the bucket...)
so there are clearly a lot of issues with these hyped tool and i think it would be a nice example to rake together such a toolset for rebol as an alternative
 
8:39 AM
@johnk I think one problem remaining with #1886 was a desire (expressed by @BrianH, for example, IIRC) to have the /INTO refinement renamed. Otherwise, I'd like to see it merged as well, and could prepare the pull request.
 
posted on August 18, 2013 by abolka

[Comment] I'd like to see this merged. I think there was a desire (expressed by BrianH, for example, IIRC) to have the /INTO refinement of above proposed function renamed. If I remember this correctly, are there any suggestions as to what rename /INTO to?

 
9:04 AM
@rgchris I fear your pull requests RSS feed needs to be updated for the changed Github URL (rebol/rebol instead of rebol/r3).
 
9:20 AM
errr... im trying to do a simple line oriented processing. surprisingly enough, this is how it works in rebol 2:
$ echo -e 'asd\nprint 1' | rebol -q --do 'print input'
asd
1
and in rebol 3:
$ echo -e 'asd\nprint 1' | r3 -q --do 'print input'
asdprint 1
 
R3's INPUT is still rather simple-minded (read: broken in many circumstances).
As an immediate workaround, I'd suggest using read console:// directly, to get the raw input data, and then process as desired.
 
im trying to do this:
$ echo -e 'asd\nprint 1' | rebol -qw --do 'while [i: input] [print i]'
asd
print 1
hmm... read/lines is broken too? as i recall it worked just the other day :(
 
echo -e 'foo\nbar' | rebol3 -q --do 'parse to-string read console:// [any [copy line [to newline skip | to end] (probe trim/with line newline)]]'
 
well, i would use split instead, but still it kinda sucks
 
There are several more annoying issues for CLI usage.
 
9:31 AM
this works btw:
write %x {asd^/qwe} probe read/lines %x rm %x
 
Yeah, READ/lines from console:// seems to be not implemented.
Errors are printed to stdout instead of stderr.
With just redirected stdout, R3 halts at the REPL with an error. Which of course you'll never see (missing a --quit pendant to --halt). So the process is effectively crashed, but still running ...
No way to write to stderr from user code.
Etc.
 
any docs on this console:// scheme?
 
No idea.
That's just what is used for system/ports/input and output.
Doesn't look like we have the missing READ/lines for console:// on CureCode yet. So don't hesitate to file a bug :)
 
aren't we migrating to github issues?
 
Yes, that's the plan. But it's not done yet.
 
9:38 AM
@johnk I also prefer to keep the community edition for rebolbot. If @HostileFork needs to implement https, we can do it that way.
@johnk it could be that I just copied my search version to EC2 without first pushing to Github, so if it's way shorter.. it's because it publishes the findings to Cheyenne now.
@onetom Yes, Rebolweek was a project of mine with quite a few helpers but they've all fallen by the wayside! And I've been busy with family stuff.
@HostileFork ... regarding your video, personally I would prefer not to have kept switching to see Carl talk, but would have preferred to have seen the code listings with the voice over ( or, the much more difficult PIP ) as it was difficult to follow the code which was only on screen for a few seconds at a time before switching back to Carl.
@johnk if we have the altme instance running on EC2 now, we can create "live" feeds of the world public groups. The ones maintained on rebol.org are done manually and are always behind.
And I think we can onebox Rebol4 world announces here by first posting them into a separate ( dummy room ), and then rebolbot can link to them. Linking to another chatroom oneboxes I think.
 
@GrahamChiu I think just creating an RSS feed for the announces would be even simpler.
 
@earl You have code for this?
 
@GrahamChiu You have code for posting the announces?
Should be easy to do with Chris' RSS scripts.
 
@earl Sure. rebolbot can post into a different room ... we do that for debugging
 
@GrahamChiu Chris has ready-made RSS emitters.
They generate half of the RSS feeds you see passing by, here.
 
9:50 AM
@earl Ok, guess it's up to whoever implements the feature first :)
 
@GrahamChiu Please implement it as RSS feed emitter :)
Is your AltME on EC2 running now?
 
@earl It's johnk's
 
I have a personal AltME web publisher running reliably for a few months now. I guess I could as well adapt it, to just emit web-public rooms. And maybe also RSS feeds :)
 
And I haven't checked .. been MIA for the last week
 
posted on August 18, 2013 by Ladislav

[Comment] In the core-tests suite.

 
10:03 AM
@earl @GrahamChiu Altme on ec2 is still not quite running for me :-/ It starts and runs over X, but with Xvfb it does not seem to update the chats. @earl if you altme ->web up and running already maybe we can help to do the RSS feeds and integrate that way?
 
@johnk @GrahamChiu I'll try to publish the publishing script in the next few days.
 
@earl Great
 
@johnk Here's how I run AltME itself:
 
@HostileFork i like how this guy is "trolling" youtube.com/watch?v=csyL9EC0S0c -- Programming is terrible—Lessons learned from a life wasted.
 
#!/bin/bash
export DISPLAY=:1
exec bash -c "cd /path/to/altme; exec ./altme"
@johnk And for running AltME under Xvfb, you also need a (basic) window manager. Somehow, AltME doesn't like running without.
So something like fluxbox, or twm, or ...
I think that's how I launched the Xvfb instance:
#!/bin/bash
export DISPLAY=:1
Xvfb :1 -screen 0 1024x768x16 &
fluxbox &
 
 
1 hour later…
11:23 AM
@earl Looking at the split examples, I could live without into if it meant we can get it in the build. The naming makes sense to me.
@earl I'll try altme with a wm running - thanks for the tip
 
My 1st entry on my new blog: Interpreter Startup Times
 
@rebolbot goodnight
 
@johnk goodnight to you too
@Tomi87 Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Sadly you won't be able to talk to us at present. You need a few more reputation points on Stackoverflow to join these chat rooms. If you answer some questions, or ask some, we might be able to help by upvoting you. In the meantime, have a look at a Rebol introduction.
 
11:45 AM
@Tomi87 if you post a question on StackOverflow, it will pop up here on this chat too
@Tomi87 because we are monitoring an SO RSS feed, so we will notice and respond quite fast.
 
@onetom First arguing about tabs and then not even getting the tab-based indentation on your own blog right :) ?
@onetom On a more serious note: the R2 results are very interesting. Definitely not only measuring interpreter startup here, but also some overhead in R2's CALL.
@onetom I'd also add at least the precise versions of the interpreters being tested, otherwise you could just as well anonymise the results.
@onetom For comparison, some results from my box (the R3 test, only. No PHP, but two Pythons):
| awk | 0.452196 | awk 1 /dev/null |
| bash | 0.459334 | bash /dev/null |
| Perl | 0.350214 | perl -e 1 |
| Rebol3 | 0.811616 | rebol3 -q --do 1 |
| Rebol2 | 1.084499 | rebol2 -qw --do 1 |
| Python2 | 1.08194 | python2 -c 1 |
| Python3 | 2.775345 | python3 -c 1 |
| NodeJS | 1.619252 | node -e 1 |
| Ruby | 2.237109 | ruby -e 1 |
(awk 4.1.0, bash 4.2.45, Perl 5.18.0, R3 2.101.0-g264bb4e (current mainline), R2 2.7.8.4.2, Python 2.7.5, Python 3.3.2, NodeJS 0.10.15, Ruby 2.0.0p247)
 
12:14 PM
@earl these are all default settings of jekyll and that fucker converts the tabs to spaces... ;P
can i include your results too? what is the machine u were running on?
do u have a script to generate the versions?
 
@onetom Then it may actually by Mr. Hyde's fault? ;-)
 
@Ladislav :) how would u call a similar static site generator which is written in Rebol?
jeRkyll? :)
or in the spirit of canada, maybe Jerky, like the beef jerky?...
@earl so if u dont mind i would include your results too, just tell me more about your config
article updated
 
12:38 PM
@onetom No, Jekyll, is already perfect, as the classic book describes.
 
1:18 PM
@onetom Feel free to include them; I'm glad if they're useful. What config details do you need?
 
1:48 PM
@earl processor / os; anything u think is relevant from performance point of view. however the relative performance seems to be in the same ballpark
 
2:26 PM
@onetom yes, relative performance is similar
@onetom even R2 is similarly slow for me :)
@onetom 2.9ghz core i7 lenovo t430s, linux; don't think it matters much :)
 
@earl sure, but in case anyone has some ideas how to explain the results, it might be useful to know these extra details
@earl 64bit linux, i guess, right?
 
yep
 
 
1 hour later…
3:52 PM
@rebolbot last 20 links posted by ladsilav
@rebolbot delete
 
4:13 PM
@rebolbot help
 
I respond to these commands
Note: [] means optional input or shows expected datatype, (|) means choice:
(do|do/2|do/red|do/boron) expression "evaluates Rebol/Rebol-like expression in a sandboxed interpreter"
(hi|hello|goodnight|goodbye|bye|[good][night|morning|afternoon|evening]) some-text "returns a greeting to the user who greeted bot"
cc id "retrieves curecode data"
delete [ loud ] "in reply to a bot message will delete if in time"
do/ideone which-lang [word! string! integer!] expression "evaluates a source expression for the specified language"
 
4:25 PM
keys
@rebolbot keys
 
I know the following keys:
0-based indexing "PICKZ and POKEZ functions for 0-based indexing."
About "About Rebol (and Red)"
Aggregator "Rebol SO tagged questions"
alive? "I'm a-liiiiive!!!"
AltJSON "JSON utils by rgchris"
AltWebForm "URL Encoded Forms Utils by rgchris"
AltXML "XML Utils by rgchris"
BadMoney "Currency designator for money datatype"
binaries "Experimental builds for R3"
blog "Carl and Shadwolf's blog"
bot-source "RebolBot Source"
cc-source "Sources to Curecode"
chatmod "SO Chat Modification Script"
 
Rebmu is amazing. Is there an interpretter written in a language other than Rebol? — primo 11 hours ago
 
how can i run r3 so it quits when it hits an error?
 
@onetom Can't, that's one of the annoyances I mentioned earlier. If you don't have input: "echo q | r3".
 
@earl okay, that workaround is fine for now, thx
this is exactly why i registered a #rebol room on irc.freenode.net around 2004-5...
 
4:30 PM
So you registered that :) ?
 
i was hoping to have this kind of lively help environment
@earl why, you wanted to register too? :)
 
How about checking by on Freenode and adding me as a room owner? I've been idling in #rebol for the past several years.
 
:) great...
 
Yeah, had to register #rebol3 as well, because #rebol was taken.
 
:))) ... great. have you been to the 2005 conference?
 
4:32 PM
yep
room topic changed to [Rebol and Red]: Now at github.com/rebol/rebol (!) rebolsource.net/go/chat-faq [dialect] [interpreter] [json] [lisp] [rebol] [red]
 
@earl is there any proposal about how should the command-line interface look like for rebol?
 
@onetom I propose that abbreviations like Q, if they exist, only exist if asked for when running in the command line mode.
Or if you really don't like typing, run rebmu.
 
5:21 PM
@RebolBot
code: [1 +]
append code 2
do code
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> code: [1 +] append code 2 do code
== 3
 
I really think that should just say:

== 3

and be a reply to what I said. If I want to see the code I'll hover and see what it's a reply to.
The execution could have a debug mode that repeats the source it thought it heard.
@RebolBot do/ideone ruby puts "working?"
 
RebolBot uses http://ideone.com (c) http://sphere-research.com
uts "working?
 
@RebolBot do/ideone ruby
puts "what's"
puts "going"
puts "on?"
 
RebolBot uses http://ideone.com (c) http://sphere-research.com
uts "what's" puts "going" puts "on?
 
5:30 PM
Oh, right, has to be in a string
 
 
1 hour later…
6:44 PM
q is too universal to be replaced. less, darcs, vim uses it... it's safer than pressing control-d (which also should work imho)
on the surface it sounds good to only define 'q in interactive mode, however i dont see a lot of benefit in it. especially if the default behaviour is to drop into the 'do prompt when an error occured during script execution.
q really never got into my way so far
i was fighting with pygments now. it replaces the tabs with spaces and i can't find it where.
it's impossible to debug, because a ruby wrapper is running a python bg process and communicates w it via stdio, so i can't simply just print debug info from pygments.py and im not that familiar w python loggers to quickly setup something...
i also tried sys.stderr.write("xxx") but that didn't work either...
even with sys.stderr.flush() ...
it's really very sad how entagled everything is. just not really hackable even though the sources are there
i dug really deep and the commandline version works:
---==| ~/.rvm/gems/ruby-2.0.0-p247/gems/pygments.rb-0.5.2/vendor/pygments-main |==---
$ pbpaste | ./pygmentize -l rebol -f html | xxd
pbpaste | ./pygmentize -l rebol -f html | xxd
0000000: 3c64 6976 2063 6c61 7373 3d22 6869 6768 <div class="high
0000010: 6c69 6768 7422 3e3c 7072 653e 3c73 7061 light"><pre><spa
0000020: 6e20 636c 6173 733d 2263 223e 0961 776b n class="c">.awk
0000030: 0909 2671 756f 743b 6177 6b20 3120 2f64 ..&quot;awk 1 /d
 
In pygments it appears:
comment [
;-- some comment
]
mucks it up.
Also seeming fail on:
;-- blah blah Rebol blah blah
 
the github guys are also using pygments, right?
 
Yup
 
7:16 PM
Built and testing current github rebol/rebol master. There's a bit of instability in the result. Anyone else notice that?
Since this is essentially a subset of other repos (like community), I'd assume the instability is in those builds as well.
Perhaps it's been there a long time... and no one noticed. Just makes me a bit nervous, because the first build came up with error 1009. But, all runs after that are okay. Not a good thing.
I'm running a debug build now... with some mem checks and chaff fills. Recycle tells me we've got one errant block... not terminated, and dumping it, it's full of NONE!, even at the terminator. Plus, the dump triggers a stack smash abort.
Curious if anyone else is chasing down errors like this?
 
The tcp error is also stopping
 
Hi Graham. What error?
 
Can't recall the error number but it occurs in core, and gives us a malformed event
@rebolbot search 8109
 
@GrahamChiu What do you mean?
 
@rebolbot search "8109"
 
7:28 PM
@GrahamChiu sorry, 8109 not found so far
 
no luck
If you figure it out, let me know.
 
@rebol Tried valgrind? I did a bit of that.
IIRC I fixed whatever the problem was it found at that time, but that was a while ago.
 
So, there is a fix floating around somewhere?
 
@rebol I was just suggesting that Valgrind can be a good way of catching Heisenbugs. Do you have a repro case, something that always fails?
 
I think Valgrind a good idea, and we should see what it flags, and we should run it often. But, it's not as likely to catch the kind of mem mgmt error (unterminated block)... because it's not an external type of error.
 
7:43 PM
@GrahamChiu I rewrote RebolBot's stackapps page to make it... um, good. But my edits are in a review queue as I only have 101 points on Stackapps. I don't know if you can approve the edit or if someone else has to do that.
It would be nice if the bot did its own StackApps page maintenance for the command list, etc.
@rebol BTW, on the spaces vs. tabs debate, I know where you're coming from. But did you ever see USCII? The generator was written in Rebol, BTW. :-) USCII encoder
 
Found the stack smashing problem. The raw internal dumpers aren't meant for large items. Easy to fix.
 
@HostileFork does this look good? any immediate impressions? i beautified it a bit
http://onetom.rebol.info/2013/08/18/Interpreter-startup-times.html
 
@onetom Nifty!
 
@HostileFork thx
 
URL-wise, my advice is to drop ".html"
FFFFFFFFEFFFFFFFFEFFFFFFFFEFFFFFFFFE
FFFFFFFFE8C63F8C62001D18C5C001F0707C
213E4214401004210861084211C001D1FC1E
FC21E8420001D18C5C002D984204212A6292
000000000010042108001F0707C000000000
001C17C5E00231AD54001D1FC1E001F0707C
001D18C5C00375AD62001D1FC1E000006110
000000000213E421448421E8C62010042108
001F0707C000000000010042108001F0707C
0000000001148E2108001C17C5E001F0841E
213E42144FFFFFFFFEFFFFFFFFEFFFFFFFFE
FFFFFFFFEFFFFFFFFEFFFFFFFFEFFFFFFFFE
 
7:50 PM
@rebol it's a #9910 error. See cyphre.mysteria.cz/pics/error9910.jpg
 
@rebol :-P Anyway, the point being that I over time have thought that the small "semiotic" value of tabs is somewhat misleading. In a philosophical sense, if you are going to accept the medium of text and work in it, there's a sort of troubling element of "invisible" information where you can't really tell the difference between a space and a tab just by looking.
 
@rebol Cyphre thinks "the problem is that the system port recevies event! where event/port value is "invalid" from some reason. then the system ports calls WAKE-UP on that invalid port and the assertion is triggered"
I can get that error code from running a console session from a few mins to an hour
 
In a world without tabs, where spaces are spaces, it's like you are embracing the constraints of the medium for being "what it is". As someone who believes programs are better edited as graph databases and then projected... I used to hate text for programs. If I rename a variable which is referenced 1000 times, why should the versioning system think I am touching 1000 reference sites? It seems too many touches to the version history for one change.
 
If you look from chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/10600102#10600102 where I did some testing, I got a different error on linux
Anyway, it's a show stopper for long running tcp code
 
@GrahamChiu If you hadn't noticed, chat messages can be oneboxed...
Jul 15 at 8:09, by Graham Chiu
I've started another run to see how long it takes to see this error in windows and then I'll run it on a linux vm
Anyway, my point about tabs and spaces is that I think that yes, it's pretty silly for people who have different indentation tastes to "flatten" the "intent" of a tab into spacing. But I also think a lot about storing programs in text files is silly, but it is a medium...very historical, very concrete. you can hold it in your hand, you can print it on a piece of paper and frame it and that's all there is.
 
7:57 PM
@rebol Robert reset your password to the rm-asset AltMe. I sent you a Skype msg.
 
@HostileFork indeed, that would be nice, however that's what i get out of the box, plus it allows the content to be hosted almost anywhere. for example it's on s3 now, so it can guess the right mime type based on the .html extension
 
Tabs, being this fractional preservation of "un-flattened" intent, are a holdover of one idea that isn't a bad idea, but if you believe in that then you might be using the wrong medium. And we see in the web medium that spaces are just far more predictable.
 
@earl has anyone logged this #9910 issue except here in chat and on altme?
 
@rebol Didn't notice an instability so far. What kind of instability, and how do/did you notice it?
 
you mean if you use space _not_ as semantic delimiters _but_ as visual effects, to do character graphics, simulate spreadsheets, indented text outlines, then yes, u can use spaces as a predictable tool for positioning IF you are using monospaced fonts.

but i think you wouldn't pass a word processing exam if you would use such techniques for document formatting... and specifically on the web it's not encouraged to use content to encode visual aspects of a document, right?....
 
8:09 PM
If one sees any of my students' word processing work, one would know that spaces are almost always unpredictably wrong.
 
@HostileFork i totally agree that text is not very good for representing code. in fact just the other day i was talking to an ex-google guy who is the creator of the Panda programming language and he shares the same opinion. although he still doesn't have a really good idea about what should be the alternative....
 
@onetom If he's not aware of the Intentional Software stuff, you might want to send it his way. I think it's pretty much the answer to what to use instead of text, but it only answers part of the problem, and as I've mentioned I think there's a big difference between complexity management and complexity elimination.
 
I keep pondering that actually Ron's database could be the base of such a programming language. But the actual UX is still a big question...
 
@GrahamChiu I think we have only rather vague reports so far: like issue.cc/r3/2032.
 
If you're not eliminating complexity, then in a design sense, you're part of the problem.
 
8:13 PM
@GrahamChiu I don't know of anyone having found a reliable way to reproduce this #9910 error so far.
 
@earl well, I can always produce it .. just not in a set time
 
@HostileFork ah, these hungarians everywhere... intentsoft.com ;)
 
@earl Answer: I built the current master. As soon as I ran it, it crashed.
Crashed on boot. But, it only crashed once. After that, did not crash again.
However, if you turn on CHAFF in the mem pools, you'll see an error on GC.
 
@rebol Haven't seen that with current master so far.
@rebol Just -DCHAFF?
@rebol Ok, with CHAFF I see an #1207 assertion as well. That's what you get as well?
 
@AstDerek BTW, if you're not aware, @rebol is Carl Sassenrath. :-) Carl, @AstDerek is a new Rebol programmer who's been working with RebolBot.
 
8:26 PM
@earl That's one of the problems, but I think I'm past that one.
 
@rebol Bisecting that one, seems that one has been there right from the start. (From the initial open sourcing, that is.)
 
@earl good info, thanks for checking.
 
@GrahamChiu If you have a reproduction that I can run unattended, then time is no big problem, for starters.
 
why dont we have 'build-tag in rebol 3? :(
 
@earl Here's info on the bad series I'm tracking down:
bad termination Series #0902B040 "make": wide: 16 size: 1024 bias: 0 tail: 57 rest: 64 flags: #00000110
0000: 0000002C 0902B028 00000000 FFFFFFFF
0001: 00000002 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF
same thru terminator
 
8:32 PM
@rebol if you tell me how you build, i can try reproduce that here as well.
 
@earl Quite a few changes at this point to enhance mem debug. Since it's all compile def'd (so doesn't affect normal operation) I'll check it in sometime today for you to build.
 
@rebol I fixed one bug which was series termination related.
But that only added terminators, so ...
 
@rebol Ok. Did I get it in the pulls or do you know where I can find it?
 
@rebol Did you check if the problems you are observing are also present in earlier versions?
 
@earl Yes, I got that pull.
No, didn't check... because did not accept any pulls that were deep enough to cause serious issues... at least that's my reasoning.
And BTW, the 2C type above is a frame.
So, this is an object with 56 values. That length sounds vaguely familiar. (Been too long away from the code!)
hmmm...
 
8:50 PM
@HostileFork Thanks @HostileFork, and glad to be introduced to you @rebol. didn't expect it though :)
 
>> ? system/catalog
SYSTEM/CATALOG is an object of value:
datatypes block! length: 56
actions block! length: 56
 
@rebol Just wanted to say: current num of datatypes :)
 
@AstDerek good to meet you also.
@earl It's probably manually constructed in the boot... so may not have been properly terminated.
@earl look like it's built with Append_Frame, but that terminates.
 
bad termination Series #08DCF0A0 -: Wide: 16 - Bias: 0 Tail: 57 Rest: 64 Size: 1024
08D95DD0: 0000002C 08DCF08C 00000000 FFFFFFFF
08D95DE0: 00000002 FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF FFFFFFFF
Can reproduce.
 
that's it
 
8:56 PM
Ok, at least it's not caused by the pull I mentioned.
Originates from the forced recycle at the bottom of Init_Mezz.
 
(I wonder if it's ok to get so technical here on SO. Maybe we should move to skype?)
 
(Ok.)
 
9:26 PM
@rebol no, please stay
in fact if you can throw in more commands, we all can learn and later we can help fixing such stuff or at least produce more helpful bugreports
 
9:37 PM
I would also like to attempt to understand your discussion, would be nice to have here
 
@rebol Agreed w/others, we like the technical details. :-)
As we've shown, SO chat is an odd beast, but it's rather indexable... open... has the starring for calling out notable points, all permalinkable. If something is transient, this is the right place for it. Once it becomes more defined, it belongs as in issue tracking or Q&A... speaking of which... @earl, how about that GitHub migration for curecode? :-?
 
 
1 hour later…
11:04 PM
@HostileFork Currently paused. Next steps are lined out on the Trello card. Hope to be able to resume it soon.
 
Whoops, so I guess we shouldn't have moved. Well, didn't miss that much. We tracked it back to an odd object, a sort of appendix yet to be used (a prependix?) for user datatypes.
Most of the discussion was Andreas filling me in on cool git features.
 
@rebol It would be good to get split updated issue.cc/r3/1886 - There is an outstanding decision on if /into should be renamed. What would be your preference for the name?
 
But, I will point out that during the deep debug session, I added more robust series labeling. This is a feature gurus can use during debug. Define SERIES_LABELS, then when you type STATS you'll see all the series listed, along with labels where appropriate.
But again, guru stuff. Most of the time this isn't something you need.
@johnk checking on it, 1 min
 
posted on August 18, 2013 by abolka

[Comment] Pull request submitted: https://github.com/rebol/rebol/pull/129

 
@johnk So, just catching up... generally, is everyone happy with split? Does someone want to post that new code as a pull-request to the master? Then...
Regarding /into... has there been any discussion on it?
Words like part, parts, sections -- come to mind.
 
11:17 PM
@earl pointed out that @Brianh was not entirely happy with the naming of /into. Unfortunately I don't think Brian is around to explain.
 
I'm not sure where /into came from. We should query Gregg on it.
I should find a way to publish all the prior notes/altme/chat on rebol 3 development.
I'm sure it's on my drive somewhere.
 
:-( No Gregg or Brian here ATM
 
@rebol Split is a pretty good word, but in a sense, I think the main thing is that parse needs to "focus"... yes, yes, I'm always on the marketing angle. It's easier to understand Rebol PARSE if we can nail it down, and it's such a killer feature, that diluting the explanation is a bad idea. Also we have some unimplemented things, like REVERSE, to tend to...
To me, the split conversation is a different one from Split-ting the "simple parse" functionality out so that parse becomes easier to model in one's mind.
We are finding strong receptiveness to parse here, and I think we should be emphasizing that with the javascript build as a web tool
See for instance RegEx Pal. We can mop the floor with that.
 
Those are good points on parse, but there's also the principle of helper functions in Rebol. Various mezz functions are there just to make code more readable to the more casual coders.
 
@HostileFork split is critical now since parse/all has become default. We need a clean way to deal with " " sperated strings. eg parse split "the dog" " " [ "the" "dog" ]
 
11:26 PM
parse/all is the default parse in 3.0
 
@johnk Do remember there is space. I side with Dr. Rebmu, and clarity is key here. :-)
 
This is broken as split "the dog" " " returns [ "the" dog" "" ]
 
We don't want the ending empty string.
Is that an artifact of parse or split implementation?
 
@rebol Split implementation I believe
 
Well the only dog I have in this race is "hey, parse is really complicated, we will help people by defining it as taking a series and then a block of rules". What split does is new and should get its own subcommittee... just saying parse shouldn't fake out the whitespace and it is best understood as a block-based rule dialect.
I don't like the /ignore stuff, it's too semantically tricky.
These aren't very controversial positions, and @rebol, this has been one of my gripes lately... which is, how do we make things we basically all agree on "happen".
Bugfixes good. Regressions bad. :-)
 
11:35 PM
@rebl @HostileFork As a possible work around I have just removed the /into functionality from Greggs split. I'll paste the updated function into curecode. That way we can fix the basic split but and discuss the semantics of /into when Gregg and Brianh return
(what is the syntax for curecode to markup code?)
 
11:53 PM
posted on August 18, 2013 by johnk

[Comment] As the naming of /into is still in debate I have quickly removed the /into refinement so we can get it into the build. I hope this is ok with you Gregg and Brian. Modified version split: func [ "Split a series into pieces; fixed or variable size, fixed number, or at delimiters" series [series!] "The series to split" dlm [block! integer! char! bitset! any-string

 

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