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12:17 AM
@earl Why don't you send him an email. You can try the address recorded on the REBOL4 AltME world.
 
@PeterWAWood Tried that.
But thanks!
Maybe I've mis-copy/pasted, I'll try again.
 
12:35 AM
@onetom What were you expecting?
@onetom Or an SO question about modules :)
@earl @HostileFork might have his number?
@earl can you ping me on Skype? chris-rg
 
12:52 AM
@rgchris multiple assignments. not sure why... spaces are optional in case of paren block and string and i though maybe for set-words too, but that would be ugly anyway...
 
@onetom The one @paultarvydas mentioned above that was hosted by the Toronto Lisp User Group.
 
1:14 AM
@Respectech sure, but i havent found it in the log, that's why i was asking... i thought u can easily copy paste from your browser
 
1:33 AM
@onetom Sorry. Here's the link: rfarr.github.io/bitcoin-presentation
 
@Respectech FYI I have a friend currently building a quadcopter. He is using this for flight computer. Does not have any smarts for avoiding trees, but could be a good base to start from.
 
1:50 AM
@johnk Not having to develop a flight computer from scratch will help to save a lot of time. Thanks for the link!
 
If you want to chat, I am sure my friend would be interested in your project. I know he has a side interest in AI as well. (I'll have to introduce him to Rebol ...)
 
2:12 AM
Hi, All. What's the difference between those two expression?
@RebolBot
var: 32
type? var
type? :var
one use a word "var" and one use a get word ":var", but all get the same result
 
@RebolBot
var: 32
print type? var
print type? :var
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> var: 32 print type? var print type? :var
integer!
integer!
 
@RebolBot
print type? 'var
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print type? 'var
word!
 
@qtxie in the 1st case (type? var) it is evaluating the variable, getting the value as it does in (type? :var)
if you want to use a word, you use the tick mark 'var
@RebolBot
set var 13
 
2:20 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
>> set var 13
*** ERROR
** Script error: var has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
@RebolBot
set 'var 13
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> set 'var 13
== 13
 
@kealist you mean in expression like "type? variable", use word or set word has same effect? we can use any one if like?
 
@qtxie in this case, you are evaluating it which has the same effect. if it is in a block, it may appear differently when it is not evaluated (because the block isn't automatically evaluated)
 
sorry, set word -> get word
 
2:27 AM
@RebolBot
y: 3
b: [x: :y]
print type? y
print type? first b
print type? second b
@RebolBot delete
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> y: 3 b: [x: :y] print type? y print type? first b print type? second b
integer!
set-word!
get-word!
 
@qtxie the block! b is not evaluated unless you tell it to
@RebolBot
y: 3
b: [x: :y]
print b
print x
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> y: 3 b: [x: :y] print b print x
3
3
 
@RebolBot
y: 3
b: [x: :y]
print x
@RebolBot delete
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
>> y: 3 b: [x: :y] print x
*** ERROR
** Script error: x has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
2:31 AM
@qtxie in this case, x has no value because b has not been evaluated
@qtxie the print b statement tells it to evaluate b
@qtxie confused?
 
@RebolBot
y: 3
b: [x: y]
print b
print x
if I use 'y', not a ':y', I can get the same result. Is there any situation I can only use a get word but not a word?
 
@qtxie Please continue.
 
@RebolBot
y: 3
b: [x: y]
print b
print x
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> y: 3 b: [x: y] print b print x
3
3
 
@qtxie , i'm not 100% sure what other cases there are, but if you want to give a function another name, you must use a get-word
@RebolBot
x: print
@RebolBot delete
 
2:36 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-arg.html
>> x: print
*** ERROR
** Script error: print is missing its value argument
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
@RebolBot
x: :print
x [{This is a block being printed by the function x}]
@RebolBot delete
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> x: :print x ["This is a block being printed by the function x"]
This is a block being printed by the function x
 
@kealist Got it. Thanks, that's what's I want to know
 
@qtxie in that case, the get-word prevents a function call from happening :)
Good stuff
@RebolBot
x: print 5
x
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-need-value.html
>> x: print 5 x
5
*** ERROR
** Script error: x: needs a value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
2:39 AM
Yea, doesn't really work
@RebolBot
x: does [print 5]
x
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> x: does [print 5] x
5
 
@kealist Is it meant print not return a value?
 
@qtxie I am not sure, you can try this:
@RebolBot
type? print 4
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> type? print 4
4
== unset!
 
@qtxie someone else here may be able to tell you what an unset! value is, but I'm not sure
@RebolBot
if unset? (print "test") [print "Nothing was returned"]
 
2:46 AM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> if unset? (print "test") [print "Nothing was returned"]
test
Nothing was returned
 
@qtxie I guess it means nothing was returned if you get an unset! value
 
@kealist I understand, Thanks very much :-)
 
@qtxie you're welcome! enjoy reboling!
 
@RebolBot do ? unset!
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> ? unset!
unset! is a datatype
It is defined as a no value returned or set
It is of the general type internal
 
3:25 AM
@qtxie If you want to return a value of type UNSET! from a function, use EXIT instead of return (earl told me this recently, I didn't know, I thought you had to use "construction syntax" of an unset literal)
@RebolBot
foo: func [] [1 + 2 exit]
type? foo
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> foo: func [] [1 + 2 exit] type? foo
== unset!
 
im also missing a flatten function regularly... is it just me again?
 
3:45 AM
@HostileFork or you could even do return unset!
@onetom I have wanted a flatten in the past and each time I come up with a new solution ...
 
@johnk well, im forced to...
 
@onetom It would make a good SO question
 
but it's not exactly helping rapid development
 
@RebolBot
probe type? unset!
probe type? #[unset!]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> probe type? unset! probe type? unset!
datatype!
datatype!
== datatype!
 
3:48 AM
@johnk Okay, I think I remember that this is a problem area for RebolBot, but use the interpreter and there is a difference...
 
@HostileFork Yes, my mistake. Thinking cap on the wrong way around today
 
i can't include charset definitions into the parse rule directly, right? like:
[some complement charset "^- " some charset "^- "]
 
@johnk sure, i know, i just don't like it's not part of the base toolkit
but thx
 
@Respectech Your camera angle has provided valuable editing opportunities but I must condemn you, because if you hadn't provided that, then it would be more limited and the whole editing matrix would be much simpler. :-P
 
3:53 AM
but since r3 can operate on international text, i guess we shouldnt use this approach anymore
 
@onetom Not that I have seen. A possible approach would be parse "aaa" [ (a-rule: charset "a") some a-rule ]
 
@onetom compose [some (complement charset "^- ") some (charset "^- ")]
But why?
 
just for quick prototyping
 
Cool. So the bitset! is ok but charset is a function with no corresponding parse keyword.
 
why parse/all "1" [not " "] is false?
 
4:04 AM
hmm
no good reason.
NOT just inverts the match status of the rule.
 
that's what it supposed to do, yes... according to rebol.com/r3/docs/concepts/parsing-summary.html#section-12 at least
 
@HostileFork sounds like you're working on the next video?
 
I guess it is inverting the match status but not advancing the input position.
Sort of like AND
 
@RebolBot do parse/all "1 " [?? thru " "]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse/all "1 " [?? thru " "]
thru: "1 "
== false
 
4:10 AM
@RebolBot
parse "1" [not "2" skip]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "1" [not "2" skip]
== true
 
@kealist Yes, but I sort of made a mistake of sorts by picking the most "important" videos to look at first. I'm taking stock of what I've got. And every time I said something, it turned out to be right. I'm now paying for not listening to myself... that's why the audio in Carl's talk wound up so bad... I used the stereo mix instead of the left/right channels and doing the work with that to process it...
And I told @DocKimbel to hit the keyboard, not the Styrofoam cup. But he hit the Styrofoam cup. Now I have to make the editorial decision of if I think that's funny or just to clip around it. :-)
I wanted the mic inputs to go directly into my computer, timed to the screencast recording of the presentation, and give Max the output from that to mix and figure out as he would. Instead I wound up downstream of the mix... or so I thought. But not really. I found out later I actually got more or less what I wanted, the feed I had was almost as pure as how I'd done it... I just didn't think it would be, so I edited using the mixer output.
 
@onetom Check out NOT in the parse project
It has been specifically designed not to consume input.
 
@Brett ok, thx
im getting some console output fuckup too:
>> parse/all "1 " [?? to " "]
to: "1 "
== false

>> parse/all "1 " [?? to " "]
to: "1 "
== false

>> parse/all "1 " [?? to " " ??]
to: "1 "
en: : "
== false

>> parse/all "1 " [?? to " " ??]
to: "1"
en: : "
== false
same in both iTerm and Terminal
 
Looks like ?? has a bug
 
4:23 AM
that's a different ?? than the one i see with source ??, right?
 
Yep, ?? inside parse is a dialect keyword interpreted by parse
 
@RebolBot
_: [some [sp | tab]]
x: [some [not sp not tab skip]]
parse/all {bleh ^-^- } [?? x ?? _ ??]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> _: [some [sp | tab]] x: [some [not sp not tab skip]] parse/all "bleh  ^-^-   " [?? x ?? _ ??]
x: "bleh  ^-^-   "
_: "  ^-^-   "
end!: ""
== true
 
it just took half hour... not bad... or is it? :/
 
@onetom Well it works so that's good, and you just taught me something too. I hadn't realised that unicode would require this sort of approach.
 
4:36 AM
@RebolBot
_: [some [sp | tab]] x: [some [not sp not tab skip]]
parse/all l: {1-3 ^-^- Holiday} [x change _ " {" to end insert "}"] l
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> _: [some [sp | tab]] x: [some [not sp not tab skip]] parse/all l: "1-3 ^-^-  Holiday" [x change _ " {" to end insert "}"] l
== "1-3 {Holiday}"
 
i've just thought about the unicode issue now too. this is the 1st time im trying to use rebol 3 for parsing and i might have to deal with some chinese chars too...
as u can see from the example, im trying to parse a school calendar description
im curious how others are designing dialects but im finding it regularly that having a simple space/tab/newline/double-newline separated and indented text file pretty natural and easy to explain to people
but it's not so obvious to parse
 
I'd like to see a dialect library we could all learn from.
 
@Brett i have one dialect which i've used for a year every other day while i was doing sysadmin work: hub.darcs.net/onetom/ssh-grant/browse/SPECS.txt#103
 
5:22 AM
another thing im missing from rebol is to start the interpreter with some script loaded
 
@onetom - can't you do it via user.r?
 
well, i dont want to do it all the time
just when im testing a script
something along the lines of:
r3-gfc51038 --do 'do %generate-calendar.r throw 1'
just simpler
 
3
Q: What configuration files are there for Rebol R3 and how are they loaded?

rep_test_userIn Rebol 2 there was a user.r as well as the rebol.r file for adding code which would be loaded during startup. How has this changed for Rebol R3?

 
@onetom It looks like you are on linux so could you just use an alias in bash?
 
something like:

$ echo '$a = 1; puts $a' > x.rb; irb -r ./x.rb
1
2.0.0-p247 :001 > $a
=> 1
2.0.0-p247 :002 >
well, i still should define the alias in this fucked up way...
 
5:32 AM
@qtxie print returns #[unset!]
@RebolBot
type? print ""
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> type? print ""

== unset!
 
@onetom Stdin seems to work echo "print 123" | ./r3-gfc51038 -q
 
5:50 AM
ah, now the usual problem again... i did a read/lines %x and after fixing up the lines, i want to load the whole thing as one block. but there is no join/with nl...
so there is no direct way in parse to say #"0" - #"9" ?
 
6:07 AM
@onetom I'm advocating for functions letter, digit, symbol, whitespace... with refinement availability (e.g. letter/uppercase or digit/hexadecimal) available out of the box, and modifying parse to allow such calls as it allows blocks that can be changed out from under parse.
Carl said that seemed a reasonable application of function calls from within parse, justifying the feature, that had seemed perhaps frivolous to him before and not something to encourage.
 
6:39 AM
This is an example inspired by Andreas. The principle is to *not use* any Rebol interpreter and think what would you expect as the results in place of the question marks. Only after writing down your expectations, run the code in R2 and in R3 and compare the results you expected with the results you obtained:

x: 1
y: 2
a: make object! [x: 3 f: func [] [reduce [x y]]]
b: make object! [y: 4 g: func [] [reduce [x y]]]
c: make a b
c/x: 5
c/y: 6
c/f ; == [? ?]
c/g ; == [? ?]
 
 
3 hours later…
9:28 AM
Hundreds of earthquakes this afternoon ... 11 over Richter 5 :( Strongest 6.6. Fun and games!
 
@GrahamChiu Are you ok?
 
9:58 AM
@Ladislav Good puzzle. I disagree with both the answer in both r2 and r3 :-| (or my logic is incorrect)
 
@johnk Your logic is not incorrect if you disagree with both R2 and R3 in this case, thanks. BTW, it is not a puzzle, it is rather a poll trying to find what is the desired behaviour, and you just signaled to me that a better alternative should be found
 
@Ladislav Yes, it seems surprising that this hasn't come up as an issue previously (or maybe it has)
 
@johnk Hmm, I call this a "multiple inheritance case", and the fact is that it is not needed very often Some programming languages supporting object oriented programming don't support multiple inheritance because it is complicated.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:46 AM
posted on August 16, 2013 by Ladislav

[Comment] In the core-tests suite.

posted on August 16, 2013 by Ladislav

[Comment] In the core-tests suite.

 
Red has been Reddit-ed again... Now you can see why I want Red to stay under the radar until we're ready to "sell" it efficiently.
 
12:34 PM
@DocKimbel there are only 18 comments; that's nothing. i wouldn't worry
 
I'm waiting for @HostileFork to show up in order to post a few replies. I know that there will always be naysayers, we just need to ensure that the Red image is not damaged in any way.
 
I would answer the following image to the "What will be the relation between Red and open source Rebol? Are there plans to unify these languages?" question. There are strong ties between the 2.
 
@onetom Good one ;)
 
 
1 hour later…
1:49 PM
@onetom Haha, no. It is more like this gesture: robertcarlsen.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/dsc03390.jpg
 
 
1 hour later…
3:18 PM
@DocKimbel Hm. I don't use reddit, I don't even think I have an account. I got reddited once and it caused a lot of traffic. where printf rubber meets the road but I agree this is not a big deal and most of the comments will probably be from people here.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:32 PM
@HostileFork Sorry about that. That's why I always preferred the Video Toaster (youtube.com/watch?v=zyGCYoZ5Nlk) approach where you can produce a finished product live.
 
I used to play with a video toaster when I was a kid
We would record musicals at church, I think one time we used the transition with the ball and bullets to blow up the pastor...
It actually wa an accident, but it was a live recording
 
4:58 PM
@AstDerek well... u have to practice it more to look legit even at avatar size :)
@AstDerek you have a nice name, btw. Mr. Abstract Syntax Tree :)
 
5:54 PM
@rebolbot recent links by @rebolbot
 
@AstDerek No links found in the last 200 messages.
 
@Rebolbot recent links by @HostileFork for @RandomId
 
@AstDerek That's very interesting.
@AstDerek HostileFork in the last 200 messages wrote the following links: where printf rubber meets the road;
 
@rebolbot recent links by @Ladislav
 
@AstDerek No links found in the last 200 messages.
 
5:56 PM
Only one link? :-/ I think I've linked more than that.
 
Only one link in the last 200 stored messages
 
Hm. So RebolBot only started listening to chat recently, did anyone write a scraper so we have the whole history in the database?
 
6:26 PM
@AstDerek in case you haven't seen it: programming languages ranked by expressiveness as measured by RedMonk. (No relation to Red. :-P)
Weird study, but hey, if the data looks good for you... take it, I think.
 
7:15 PM
To begin parsing a yEd diagram, I need an xml parser (r3). Is this a good place to look reb4.me/r3/altxml ?
 
Pretty stoked. Just got my ODROID-U2 :-) zdnet.com/…
 
7:38 PM
@paultarvydas Yup, that's @rgchris's ... you can ask him if you have questions. Note you can run rebol scripts direct from web, if you like.
 
@HostileFork Nice link, thanks. The plot shows confidence ranges! (well, percentiles) a lot of web devs would just plot the average of 1000 commits
@HostileFork I had a bit of a headache with the context of block words. I get the overall idea about using different contexts for the same block, but I still haven't understood how to tie a block to a particular context
 
@AstDerek Example?
 
using a function causes the block to lose its context
 
@AstDerek By the way, Rebol has UNLESS as a replacement for IF NOT.
@RebolBot
unless 10 > 20 [print "Only runs if the condition is untrue."]
 
@HostileFork thought unless needed two blocks
 
7:50 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> unless 10 > 20 [print "Only runs if the condition is untrue."]
Only runs if the condition is untrue.
 
Ah, low symbol counts. Rebol's true purpose was to bring Rebmu into existence. :-)
 
@RebolBot
do http://reb4.me/r3/altxml
weather: load-xml/dom http://weather.yahooapis.com/forecastrss?p=19143
weather: pick weather/get-by-tag <condition> 1
weather: context [temp: rejoin [weather/get #temp "°F"] sky: weather/get #text]
? weather
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do reb4.me/r3/altxml weather: load-xml/dom weather.yahooapis.com/forecastrss?p=19143 weather: pick weather/get-by-tag <condition> 1 weather: context [temp: rejoin [weather/get #temp "°F"] sky: weather/get #text] ? weather
WEATHER is an object of value:
   temp            string!   "79°F"
   sky             string!   "Mostly Cloudy"
 
@AstDerek either takes two blocks. Unless is just the anti-IF
 
if the file is loaded as a module, something: does [ ... ] is visible without export, but something: func [ ... ] is not, why is that?
 
7:58 PM
@AstDerek Sounds like a good StackOverflow question on a reduced case. As I said, I just draw icons. The Rebol3 module system is something I have not, yet, delved into very far.
 
8:11 PM
@AstDerek The transition Rebol is undergoing between Rebol2 and Rebol3 based on assumptions about, um, "scope" (let's call it that, regardless of it not being how Rebol works)... reminds me of the issues you face in taking Javascript intended for the web and then running it under Node.JS ; I hope that sensible decisions can be made within a reasonable amount of time. @BrianH is the point man on that initiative.
 
8:34 PM
@Respectech what are you planning to do w the odroid-u2?
 
@onetom It's for a number of my projects that need more processing horsepower.
One purpose is to act as the file storage intermediary for installations where I have numerous cameras, plus indexing those videos for quick retrieval.
Another purpose is for an on-board computer for the quadcopter project (if it gets approved).
I'm sure I'll find a lot more purposes for it. :-)
 
9:20 PM
So my sound teacher in film school did the audio for "Sling Blade" with Billy Bob Thornton in it
And when they had a meeting about the sound concept, Billy Bob insisted on no fake crickets and otherwise in the mix for the outdoor scenes. He wanted all real audio, captured for real on set.
The sound guy ignored him completely, but to this day I think Billy Bob may still believe they actually went around recording crickets in the forest for the audio during the shoot.
In any case, often the stars of the show don't know the sacrifices made behind the scenes. :-P
 
9:38 PM
@HostileFork Isn't there union rules about this type of thing too?
 
@rgchris Sound editors union, or actor-slash-director union saying you can dictate insane ideas that won't work in the mix and make your work look bad? :-) I don't know, I haven't been in any unions.
 
9:50 PM
Well, exactly—I guess someone like IATSE(?)
 
10:10 PM
We need to form a Rebol/Red volunteer union. We demand our rights. :-)
 
10:37 PM
I used to dislike the term "beat" when used in directing and editing. But I grew to like it. I think more people should learn what that means.
 
11:11 PM
Oh, my roommate works with some industrial designers, and there's this $5,000/yr subscription program where each month they send you samples of weird as-yet-undeployed materials. It's called "active matter". Anyway, he borrowed a box. Neat stuff. It's like wine club, except you get odd new materials.
 
@paultarvydas yEd also exports in a format called GML which appears to be very parse friendly
 

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