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12:07 AM
@HostileFork What are the current methods of executing Rebmu? Is there an easy way of running a Rebmu string from shell? Can we have RebolBot do/rebmu ?
Or do/mu :)
d/m
 
@rgchris We did already, I thought... but I don't know if it runs straight from github or not...
@RebolBot do/rebmu
p["Working?"]
 
@HostileFork Can you elaborate on that?
 
Well, maybe not. But Rebmu isn't so big... the invocation is described here although the examples aren't necessarily up to date with recent changes. There's debug info, counting of characters for you automatically etc.
 
12:41 AM
@earl Sorry I missed your announcement about 64-bit Rebol 3! That's pretty exciting!
 
12:57 AM
My daughter posted her first YouTube music video playing the harp. To keep this on-topic, part of the video was filmed using my Rebol-based surveillance cameras. She'd (and I'd) love it if you gave it a watch and maybe click the "Like" button and send her a comment on YouTube. :-) youtube.com/watch?v=81Lp5r7jH08
 
@Zuanzuan Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Sadly you won't be able to talk to us at present. You need a few more reputation points on Stackoverflow to join these chat rooms. If you answer some questions, or ask some, we might be able to help by upvoting you. In the meantime, have a look at a Rebol introduction.
 
2:00 AM
@RebolBot
foo9: func [/local cnt][
cnt: [0]
cnt/1: cnt/1 + 1
]
foo9
foo9
foo9
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> foo9: func [/local cnt] [cnt: [0] cnt/1: cnt/1 + 1] foo9 foo9 foo9
== 3
 
Why local value 'cnt' keep the value? I don't understand why.Can someone explain that?
 
@qtxie This is about Rebol not copying series values by default, and the general oddities related by that.
@RebolBot
foo: func [/local bar] [bar: copy [0] bar/1: bar/1 + 1] foo foo foo
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> foo: func [/local bar] [bar: copy [0] bar/1: bar/1 + 1] foo foo foo
== 1
 
2:17 AM
@qtxie The series pointer at bar: [0], regardless of being local or not, was fixed because it wasn't a primitive value like an integer. So what you were actually making local was a "pointer", roughly speaking. The pointer is the same each time you call... but what is pointed to is not. If you really want what's pointed to to be different each time you call you need to invoke a COPY.
Rebol errs on the side of efficiency for such cases. It can be a source of confusion.
 
@earl Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into fixing that tonight (unless @GrahamChiu fixes it first)
It's the first issue we ave had in a while with the greeting so we are almonst there
 
3:08 AM
0
Q: REBOL3 - How to set the initial size of a layout?

kealistWith the current bug in R3-GUI layout cropping faces on my layouts, I need to set the initial size of a layout to be viewed. How do I do that? in R2, it was: view layout/size [button] 1000x1000 There is no longer a size refinement on layout and trying to set a facet does not work view layou...

 
3:44 AM
posted on August 12, 2013 by kealist

[Comment] Edited original description and added two other examples that clearly show the layout cutting off image! edges

 
 
1 hour later…
4:50 AM
Has there been any consensus around if email! should be extended to cover @name? If not we could define a new type. How about nickname!
Other options could include handle! (which is too generic) and username! (which is not specific enough)
 
5:14 AM
Yey! Another vote for handle! :)
I think that it was generally accepted that email! be extended to include that notation and that email! be renamed to a more generic person! or some such name.
Feb 24 at 17:07, by Feeds
posted on February 24, 2013 by rgchris

[Wish] Reflects now established convention of @name notation referring to a person in web/online services. There's a strong semantic case for this as a datatype for use in data exchange/storage and dialecting. Twitter defines a handle as `["@" 1 15 [alphanum | #"_"]]` though generally longer names could be supported with possibly more characters to support a wider range of services. Does not c

 
5:38 AM
wouldnt these make sense?
a: [[1 2][3 4]]
a/1x2
pick a 1x2
it works for image!, i would expect it to work for series of series too
obviously this is more interesting when the pair! comes from a variable..
 
@HostileFork not from github because that is https, and the binary Kaj is using, a community build, does not support https
@johnk I think we have code that changes "." to "-" because this is what I have observed SO chat do to names ... I wonder if they've changed that now?
 
5:53 AM
@Respectech rebol based? not red based? nice camera movement, btw. how did you make it so smooth?
 
@GrahamChiu I'll have a look later and see if I can work out what is happening
 
@johnk Need some people who have . in their name to come around!
however, even if we get the name wrong, it should not keep firing
 
@GrahamChiu Yes. Maybe we should persist the numeric id as well as (or instead of) the name
 
@johnk yeah .. big change to track user ids .. but we still need to only make the one announce. So, need to figure out where the logic bombed
I guess whatever name we find is the one to keep ...
 
6:09 AM
@GrahamChiu Sounds fair. I'll be back later -John
 
I'm out of town again ...
 
 
3 hours later…
9:34 AM
@HostileFork Your hostilefork.com is still down (Error establishing a database connection).
@HostileFork I was wondering if Rebmu could be an efficient compression method for Rebol code. Would it give a better compression ratio than the built-in compress function?
 
posted on August 13, 2013 by abolka

[Comment] Do _you_ agree with this proposal?

 
10:00 AM
You actually achieved very good native compression using Rebmu. Trying to compress your Rebmu code added 2 bytes to the total. :-) — Respectech 2 days ago
@DocKimbel Yes...thanks...I know, that site is old and predates having my own virtual servers and I haven't moved it off my friend's computer, he hasn't gotten back to me yet. I think it's just that the mysqld isn't running, but I don't have superuser access to restart it.
Outside of showing off for code golf puzzles, there may actually be applications for being able to enter really small code by hand without invoking a compression step. I dunno. If you have access to a compressor on the authoring side then I'd think compression would usually win out. It's still mostly evangelism, plus it's kind of fun and a way of learning new Rebol techniques.
 
10:16 AM
@HostileFork How does Rebmu compare to compress on a big Rebol script?
 
@DocKimbel I haven't written a big Rebol script in Rebmu. You'd have to ask Dr. Rebmu about the databases and angry birds clone. :-)
There's no automatic "musher" yet, just an "unmusher"
 
@HostileFork I don't remember well, but doesn't Dr. Rebmu have a Rebol to Rebmu conversion routine?
Ah right, the "musher" is missing! :)
 
No, not yet, he only codes in native Rebmu directly.
 
If it is not a big work, it would be nice to have it. I have the feeling that Rebmu could be an efficient compression method, that would be worth having. But I would like to test it first against compress to see how well it performs.
 
Squeezing out short scripts involves using things like IL which Rebol programmers don't use, so a good musher would notice constructs such as if a < b and do the transformation. A poor musher would get something like iA < b while a good one would make ilAb.
But with such tricks then you'd start interfering with metaprogramming or assumptions about looking for if and < in the code and finding them. This isn't a problem to native Rebmu code, because it's written understanding that the call is to IL
 
10:25 AM
@HostileFork I see, so the optimizations might be costly to implement?
 
I'm not as concerned about being costly to implement as the fact that you're changing the code, and that unmushing (as written) doesn't transform "ilAb" into "if a < b" but rather actually literally calls a different function
And if you try to do the optimization, what happens on code that actually used a variable called "IL"? So you'd really have to mush with no optimizations to have a lossless compression where the code runs as originally intended.
Well, you would lose all capitalization in words
Oh, so really on that point, if a < b would actually need to compress to ifA < b. Symbols like < are a pathological example.
 
@HostileFork You could transform infix expressions to prefix ones if that helps.
 
Well, again this is changing the code, which interferes with any metaprogramming assumptions that happen to be implicit in the code.
So the most likely way to do a musher that has value would be to take code that's already written to Rebmu assumptions and uses short variable names and promises not to care that you transform if a < b into ilAb. And its application would be as a crutch for people who want to try Code Golfing but don't want to go as far as entering and debugging their programs as Rebmu.
But not needing such a crutch was a design objective. What makes programming in Rebmu in solving these challenges feasible is the ability to drop in all-lowercase Rebol wherever you want to do some probing or debugging.
I do think it's testing the limits of dialecting. And it's another example of where not being able to override PARSE's words shows that people with interesting ideas can get blocked by literal keyword inspection within dialects.
In any case, TTYL... I didn't get a lot of sleep, and am going to give it one more try...!
 
 
1 hour later…
12:02 PM
@earl Looking at the Jose error. Did you have to delete JoséL-Cardós from the visitors.r file or just add him in as JoséL.Cardós?
 
@johnk I manually deleted multiple JoséL-Cardós from the visitors.r file, and added one JoséL.Cardós.
 
@earl Thanks
 
12:19 PM
@GrahamChiu @earl Found the bug and added a quick fix
@AstDerek I pulled in your change to the main bot script as well and restarted her
 
1:00 PM
@KeithRobertson Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 307 so chat away!
 
@johnk :)
 
Hi, sorry, I should fix up the config file handling in the twitter module. The error msg is not very helpful and the halt even less so :-/
@AstDerek I agree it should go into the send-tweet command, but getting it to work is beyond my current knowledge
@KeithRobertson Hi. Have you heard of rebol or red?
 
@johnk Can you elaborate on that?
 
1:19 PM
It seems the bot wants more interaction
 
1:38 PM
@GrahamChiu @earl the real Jose fix is here Ignore the previous msg
@AstDerek I'm half asleep |-)
Time to stop for the night
 
go to sleep
 
@rebolbot goodnight
 
@johnk goodnight to you too
 
 
1 hour later…
2:51 PM
posted on August 13, 2013 by Ladislav

[Comment] R3-GUI tickets allowed now.

 
3:18 PM
0
Q: Parsing Blocks of Data in REBOL

dtechplusI have (games scores) data in this format: Hotspurs Giants 356 6 275 4 442 3 Fierce Lions Club 371 3 2520 5 0 4 Mountain Tigers 2519 2 291 6 342 1 Shooting Stars Club 2430 5 339 1 2472 2 Gun Tooter...

 
 
1 hour later…
4:24 PM
0
A: Parsing Blocks of Data in REBOL

draegtunHere is one example (using Rebol 3) of how this could be done: club-data: map [] ; store data in hash map is one option foreach line read/lines %games-scores.txt [ fields: split line space take/last fields ; split always leaves a empty field at end of series? ; lets take last 6 ...

 
4:39 PM
@vamsi Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 70 so chat away!
 
thanks @RebolBot
 
4:55 PM
@Respectech was some non-standard codec used for this video? I'm having trouble getting uninterrupted playback at 720p. Could be my connection at this time, but it's been relatively OK when my kids have watched other clips.
 
5:36 PM
@vamsi The RebolBot only answers to messages addressed to it as the first word. But it can do code evaluations and more!
@RebolBot
print [{"I'm useful for teaching Rebol," said RebolBot to} reverse {ismav@} {-- "so do come chat with the room if you'd like to learn a bit about the language."}]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print [{"I'm useful for teaching Rebol," said RebolBot to} reverse "ismav@" {-- "so do come chat with the room if you'd like to learn a bit about the language."}]
"I'm useful for teaching Rebol," said RebolBot to @vamsi -- "so do come chat with the room if you'd like to learn a bit about the language."
@Boeckm Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 984 so chat away!
 
@Boeckm Ah, powershell. I don't know much about it. Ever tried Rebol out? Would be happy to discuss the differences, I might learn something.
 
@HostileFork Just exploring, thanks though :)
 
@Boeckm No problem, but it is a very different sort of language from most anything else out there... download is zero install, under half a megabyte, cross-platform. More than just batteries included in there... date arithmetic, network protocols, literate metaprogramming. Rather addictive.
@RebolBot
print 12-Dec-2012 + 20
print copy/part to string! read rebol.com 80
print {"It's nice to have {asymmetric} string delimiters, as matched pairs are fine."}
 
5:52 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print 12-Dec-2012 + 20 print copy/part to string! read rebol.com 80 print {"It's nice to have {asymmetric} string delimiters, as matched pairs are fine."}
1-Jan-2013
<!doctype html>
<html><head>
<meta name="generator" content="REBOL WIP Wiki"/>
<
"It's nice to have {asymmetric} string delimiters, as matched pairs are fine."
 
6:09 PM
When you call some business to get something taken care of, and it's something you want to ensure is all done and wrapped up, and they give you a "confirmation number" and you write it down, it is not "confirming" anything.
It is a tracking number in their system of the transaction. You can't take it to court and go "but I have a confirmation number!" and have them say "nope, not in our system".
 
@rebolbot
expr: [term ["+" | "-"] expr (print "e1") | term (print "e2")]
term: [factor ["*" | "/"] term (print "t1") | factor (print "t2")]
factor: [primary "**" factor (print "f1") | primary (print "f2")]
primary: [some digit (print "p1") | "(" expr ")" (print "p2")]
digit: charset "0123456789"
parse "1" expr
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> expr: [term ["+" | "-"] expr (print "e1") | term (print "e2")] term: [factor ["*" | "/"] term (print "t1") | factor (print "t2")] factor: [primary "**" factor (print "f1") | primary (print "f2")] primary: [some digit (print "p1") | "(" expr ")" (print "p2")] digit: charset "0123456789" parse "1" expr
p1
p1
f2
p1
p1
f2
t2
p1
p1
f2
p1
p1
f2
t2
e2
== true
 
I really wish they will learn a lesson although I'm skeptic.
Hi. Is it possible to show unicode characters in Rebol 2 GUI?
I know Rebol 2 "does not support" unicode. Is it possible anyway?
I need other languages beside western.
 
@SoleSoul Something I saw once was that Jerry Tsai did some work on that.
 
6:22 PM
@HostileFork Thanks. But the article does not leave any clues about what happened with this work.
 
6:36 PM
@SoleSoul It's all I know about. :-/
 
@HostileFork Yeah, Thanks.
I didn't find any more about that on Google yet.
Rebol 3 lacks systray support, and Rebol 2 lacks unicode.
Is my little first project blocked?
 
@RebolBot

digit: charset [#"0" - #"9"]

rule: [some digit (print "found some digits")]

compound-rule: [[rule rule (print "found 2")] | [rule (print "found 1")]]

parse "1" compound-rule
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> digit: charset [#"0" - #"9"] rule: [some digit (print "found some digits")] compound-rule: [[rule rule (print "found 2")] | [rule (print "found 1")]] parse "1" compound-rule
found some digits
found some digits
found 1
== true
 
@PaulTarvydas My mistakes in reducing the example aside (would be easier with a multiline Rebol 3 terminal to type in...!) does this distil down your implied problem?
 
@SoleSoul Maybe you can just get by in Rebol 2 by passing along strings properly encoded in whatever the native layer expects. That's probably UTF-16(LE) for Win32.
 
6:48 PM
@HostileFork I think so. I'm pondering/trying to understand recursive descent parsing vs. parse. I conclude that parse doesn't memoize, and, it fires actions on the way down before the parse succeeds.
 
@SoleSoul Or, you can just implement basic systray support for R3 :)
 
@earl In my first application I'm trying to learn Rebol with? :)
 
@SoleSoul Sure! :)
 
@earl And I'm not sure I understood your first suggestion. Assuming a particular unicode string could be represented using an ASCII encoding with zulu extensions (255 chars. Made up the 'zulu'), can I tell Rebol GUI to treat it as a zulu text? Is that what you suggested?
 
No idea about the GUI, sorry. I thought more about the systray.
 
7:02 PM
bbl
 
@paultarvydas It could make a good stackoverflow question to take my reduced example and ask if there's any techniques in parse to get actions in the inner rules to only fire if an outer rule is completely matched. @earl or @Ladislav may have ideas. The only ones I have are the obvious. TTYL
 
@paultarvydas Are you familiar with parsing expression Grammars (PEG) / packrat parsing / top-down parsing languages (TDPL)?
PARSE is in the same category. And has the same operational behaviour: top-down, left-to-right, with backtracking.
So actions are executed whenever they occur next in line (left to right) on a so far successful branch. (And they are re-executed when backtracking upon failure.)
@RebolBot
parse [a x] [
'a (print "a1") 'b (print "b1")
| 'a (print "a2") 'x (print "x2")
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse [a x] ['a (print "a1") 'b (print "b1") | 'a (print "a2") 'x (print "x2")]
a1
a2
x2
== true
 
 
1 hour later…
8:44 PM
@RebolBot
expr: [(append/only bt tail t) term ["+" | "-"] expr (append t 'e1 remove back tail bt) | (clear last bt) term (append t 'e2 remove back tail bt)]
term: [(append/only bt tail t) factor ["*" | "/"] term (append t 't1 remove back tail bt) | (clear last bt) factor (append t 't2 remove back tail bt)]
factor: [(append/only bt tail t) primary "**" factor (append t 'f1 remove back tail bt) | (clear last bt) primary (append t 'f2 remove back tail bt)]
primary: [(append/only bt tail t) some digit (append t 'p1 remove back tail bt) | (clear last bt) "(" expr ")" (append t 'p2 remove back ta
 
@onetom The cameras run both Rebol 3 and Red, but for different purposes. Red is used solely for the motion detection.
 
The result would look as follows:
[p1 f2 t2 e2]
[]
I guess that is what @paultarvydas wanted
 
@Adrian I uploaded the video in mp4 format, so it shouldn't be a problem.
@onetom The editing was done by "aSongScout" in Adobe Premier. He used a stabilization algorithm to make the camera movements smoother.
 
@Respectech aha. very nice project. :)
 
9:10 PM
@Respectech must be a problem on my end
 
@Ladislav I briefly wondered if there was a generalization as a parse keyword where you could "push" code instead of executing it, and unwind if not. Like compound-rule: [defer [rule rule (print "found 2")] | defer [rule (print "found 1")]]]. The parens for RULE would be kept in a queue and only run when the rule was finished. Works for print statements, but not much else. Seems like a case where if you want another kind of grammar/productions tool you need a different dialect.
 
@HostileFork "Works for print statements, but not much else." - I think it works for anything
 
@Ladislav Well, "works" but I mean that contextually a lot of times the sub rules capture parse positions and have other things that are expected to be "in the moment"... you can't still run that if the moment is lost... it's hooking into imperative programming. So I wonder how useful it would be.
 
@HostileFork "you can't still run that if the moment is lost.." - you may not understand what you are saying - if you want to wait until the whole rule is finished, you simply have to wait until the whole rule is finished
...and it seems to be possible, so what?
 
@Ladislav What if it was rule: [s: some digit e: (value: copy/part s e)] and you have two in a sequence in compound-rule which tries to defer [rule rule]. Waiting would get you the same value twice, based on the latter execution's assignment.
Predictable execution? Well it would do what it did. Useful? I dunno.
 
9:24 PM
@HostileFork Not necessarily, it simply can be done.
with just a little care
 
If you capture the state of the context at the time the paren was first seen... but I just sort of operate on assumptions like that if there exist primitives like NOW then it's only generally possible if you capture the state of the universe. But Rebol is free to not be a functional programming language, so it doesn't have to "think like that"
 
@HostileFork " if there exist primitives like NOW" - does not matter. I can transform my example so that it prints not only the trace but also the time when it was matched, in Rebol it is quite trivial, in fact.
 
@Ladislav Well I wasn't saying your example didn't work, or couldn't be made to work. I was talking about an idea parse trying to generalize it with a keyword like DEFER that rather than executing paren code immediately saved it in a stack until the end of the rule being matched... then ran all the saved parens at the end of the match.
It would require sensitivity in the sub-rule to the context in which it was run. But I guess that's already the case, usually.
You'd have to save a fair amount of state to make it useful, and even if you saved state (like variables containing parse positions) so that the code could do the captures as intended, you'd be foiled by modifiers. Basically the whole parse system you were using would have to know about the DEFER and not do anything to mess it up
 
@HostileFork Well, I can do it in a way that looks sufficient to me.
 
@Ladislav It could be interesting. I don't know if it would please attribute-grammar-functional-programming purists who are perhaps most looking into the feature. But they might not be the audience anyway.
 
9:37 PM
However, @paultarvydas may well be just unaccustomed to Parse needing some more experience to find out that it can do nearly anything (Turing complete, and highly convenient/addictive, as I see it)
 
@Ladislav I'm getting to know it better, I don't recall if you saw my rewrite of Rebmu to use parse but I did have a question about the binding situation... I tend to want to use BIND but wind up using LOAD. LOAD works and I can't figure out a way to do it without.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:06 PM
@HostileFork , Something I think should be in the works, a set of parse exercises to solve in a tutorial aimed at building up a more complete understanding of the power and flexibility of it.
I'm quite limited with it, but would love to have something guided like that to work through
It would be a great teaching tool
 
@kealist @brett sounds like something that you might be interested in
One of the aims of getting the emscripten build going was to do something like the ruby school
 
11:29 PM
@johnk @kealist It's a good idea. Ages ago when I was going through my learning curve with parse I did a tutorial (Rebol 2). I think when the learning curve is fresh in your mind, you have a good idea what other people will want to know.
 
@johnk I remember that part of it, I guess I was thinking something more like CodeKata type challenges to work through
@Brett I used your tutorial back in 2009 when I was writing some parse code, but I have since not used parse.
 
11:47 PM
@brett @kealist As a starting point it would be great to update your tutorial to rebol 3 parse. I copied and pasted the page into etherpad which allows collaborative editing (with history)
 
@johnk Let me paste in the source form (makedoc), should work right?
 
@brett Ah - even better. Just overwrite my notes
 
@johnk Why is it all blue? Never used this before.
Should mention, it's my variant of makedoc, I think I added a =url keyword...
 

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