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12:00 AM
It would be more entertaining to work a bit on that than what I've been working on :-/ but y'know, I think it somewhat admirable it only took me a couple of days to get the ECHDE running. And I can only do that because of the infrastructure work that's been ongoing. So please be aware of that.
I like the idea of going in and ripping some of that console code up and getting more parity across Win32/POSIX/Wasm... but for now I am trying to finish this CR LF thing (where I am happy so far with the compromise I have designed, which is far more sane than what we've seen).
 
how does the console work at present?
is there an ask text! going on?
console: make action! [ [
    {Runs customizable Read-Eval-Print Loop, may "provoke" code before input}
    return: [integer! sym-group! handle!] {Exit code, RESUME instruction, or handle to evaluator hook}
    /provoke
    /resumable
    /skin
]...native code, no source available...
 
@GrahamChiu The C code is needed to do some basic trapping and otherwise, but what you want to read is EXT-CONSOLE-IMPL
@GrahamChiu see also top of that file for why the separation is done that way:
> The HOST-CONSOLE Rebol function is invoked in a loop by a small C main function (see %main/main.c). HOST-CONSOLE does not itself run arbitrary user code with DO. That would be risky, because it actually is not allowed to fail or be canceled with Ctrl-C. Instead, it just gathers input...and produces a block which is returned to C to actually execute.
> This design allows the console to sandbox potentially misbehaving skin code, and fall back on a default skin if there is a problem. It also makes sure that that user code doesn't see the console's implementation in its backtrace.
Where it says HOST-CONSOLE it means EXT-CONSOLE-IMPL at this point, I guess. Note that the console has been moved to being an extension vs. being some kind of requirement in a main. This means you can build an executable with a console or without, and if you build with a console you don't necessarily need to run it in advance, just whenever you feel like it...which we hope to use in the web apps.
But yes, today's console you can think of being completely blocked on reading one line at a time; until that line is read or canceled, there's nothing it can be doing. We need to find a way to change that...even if it just means reacting to things like the tab key for completion.
But building some interesting demos like some kind of timer countdown that will only give you a certain amount of time to enter your command--like in a game--would be interesting. And then, being able to get a line of chat but preserve your in-progress input on Windows or POSIX with termios or Web, that would be an accomplishment.
 
 
3 hours later…
2:50 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE The most important thing is to put as much of it as possible in user-land. That's a design question, and those can take a while to get right. I'm game for it though!
 
3:31 AM
@MarkI Interesting to think about the contrast with the old host-main.c loop. People simply underestimate the difference under the hood, all the quantum leaps...
 
 
3 hours later…
6:29 AM
@giuliolunati Regarding your string proposal... do you think perhaps it should be biased the other way, where it is the { } form of string that is literal? Consider wishing to bracket large amounts of content, where that content might somewhere in it have a ^ that you didn't notice. Might that be more likely than an unpaired brace?
This would prevent you from having to worry about the strange doubling of quotes for your strings. {"x^2" + "y^2"} would just work, vs. the more cryptic """x^2"" + ""y^2"""
Not to say that might not be a more useful feature in the long run than making it an error; it still might be all right for doubled double quotes to mean a single double quote but not end the string. :-/
 
6:47 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE I always put a space between urls and punctuation because of this problem. Not sure wether needing it here would be good or bad, though.
 
@ingo You could try it for a while and see what you think. I feel like I'd be bothered by the asymmetry of [a b http://example.com ] leading to wanting to say [ a b http://example.com ] so it feels like a slippery slope.
Because this stuff arose so organically, I think the mission should be to look for whatever the long tail of the organic evolution is. Be friendly and convenient for the winners of that evolution, and put the burden on those who pick the formats that won't be around in a while.
 
7:17 AM
posted on February 28, 2020 by gchiu

>> https://www.youtube.com?test=(snippet=1) ** Script Error: snippet=1 is VOID! ** Where: console ** Near: [snippet=1 ~~] ** Line: 1

 
8:11 AM
>> elide file: to text! read rebol.com

>> err: trap [loop 20 [append file file ""]]
Assertion failed!

Program: C:\Users\anon_\Downloads\rebol3\r3.exe
File: ../src/include/datatypes/sys-series.h, Line 780

Expression: SER_TOTAL(s) == size
I need more ram!
 
 
1 hour later…
9:28 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Interesting idea!
BTW, if we require space around string, then maybe we can prefix them with a ^ or a \ to choose the escape char, while unprefixed strings are always raw:
five-char-string: "a^b\c" = \"a^b\\c" = ^"a^^b\c"
(the same for {...})
xor we can prefix raw strings with r: r"x^2" = "x^^2"
 
 
5 hours later…
3:03 PM
@GrahamChiu May not help. You're likely past the 32-bit address boundary there. There are internal limits regarding 32-bits even in 64-bit builds. (Iteration 19 works for me but 20 crashes.)
We should be catching such errors vs. asserting, so it's legitimate as a bug. How important is it in the scheme of things right now? I dunno. I'd like to approach each such topic with systemic vetting.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:19 PM
posted on February 28, 2020 by hostilefork

This commit tries to build on Rebol's historical concept of unifying strings within the system to use LF-only. But rather than try "magic" to filter out CR LF sequences (and "magically" put them back later), it adds in speedbumps to try and stop CR from casually getting into strings. Then it encourages active involvement at the source level with functions like ENLINE and DELINE when a ci

 
 
1 hour later…
6:45 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE It's not important for me
 
7:18 PM
posted on February 28, 2020 by gchiu

>> elide file: to text! read http://www.rebol.com >> err: trap [loop 20 [append file file ""]] Assertion failed! Program: C:\Users\anon_\Downloads\rebol3\r3.exe File: ../src/include/datatypes/sys-series.h, Line 780 Expression: SER_TOTAL(s) == size

 
 
1 hour later…
8:40 PM
@giuliolunati do you want to see if you can register for rebol-chat?
you'll need to install gpg on android though
 
9:05 PM
@GrahamChiu yes please, give me instructions!
 
@giuliolunati The instructions are being rewritten each time people reach a pain point
but try from console do <chat>
 
9:24 PM
Getting pretty acquainted with the C source using gtk functions now. I guess it is about time to go explore the GOB! type and how these should be related coming from a declaring "VID" block and then translated through the GTK in some sort of binding.
 
@iArnold hey @iArnold you can make a gui for the rebol-chat!
 
@GrahamChiu All I do now is hard code the thing inside the RENC core (within the View extension)
Could become an extra extension.
(I can almost hear @HostileForksaysdonttrustSE his thoughts and doubts about this now). I am a strong believer that the reason R3 never was accepted was the lack of a proper GUI and it being closed source at the time .. long monologue .. now I am taking the microsteps in trying to get it built
3
I am really surprised by the fact that there are such common usecases that this ginormous framework GTK is completely ignorant at.
Like no built in function to get an item by its name or id. It is like yeah everybody is uing this gtkbuilder thing and you can set an id in that and use that. No function to set the ID, lucky one for setting a name.
 
9:41 PM
@iArnold well, in that case one is just trying to do what Red is doing
R3 failed because Carl gave up on it
He was somewhat unreliable
but after 20+ years of making very little money, who can blame him?
Wasn't there a demo already of how to use GTK ?
Using the FFI
 
It is like the devs of Haiku saying why a new language we got C and Python already (that is what it basically comes down to) and the freebsd guys and linux devs on various topics 'why would you want to have a gui? we only use terminal anyway' ;-)
 
@giuliolunati any luck registering?
 
@GrahamChiu Kaj had a R3 binding for GTK iirc. Must have that somewhere. But the standard bindings contain pretty much every function and afaiac most of them are rubbish.
 
10:01 PM
With the ffi basically being the make routine. right?
 
10:12 PM
@iArnold It loads the gtk library and creates the GUI on the fly
as far as i know
 
It is an interesting approach, cant get it to work for me just yet, I am still continuing my way keeping it in mind. I think that a minimal documented GUI will attract skilled guys that can come help out also with the wasm and other things.
 
@iArnold I think I tried it the once a long long time ago
 
(I am interested in that but it is of low prio for me atm, still too much hassle)
that is the why of the microsteps. Lots of frustrations but also many rewards in micro successes.
gotta run (well sleep)
 
@iArnold sleep run?
somnabulating
 

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