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12:50 PM
Yes working now!
rebElide("loop 2 [print {This doesn't get you unstuck?}]", rebEND);
Beautiful.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:06 PM
@iArnold Good. Well, the API is non-trivial, but I think it outshines basically any other language binding in its class. I guess if you haven't used others you wouldn't know the difference, but if you compare it to libRed... the libRebol design is orders of magnitude more robust and forward-looking.
@iArnold We should change the View extension to not require the rebEND, that is only needed to build under C89 and we won't be running that View code on any platforms that can't do C99 or C++ at least.
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE A minor concern at the moment. For now I am a bit playing with the various items one can use in a view. Still very much staying close to the example code found. Now building an entry field trying to set a label from the input.
(And then how does one determine which label to set) Slowly getting to a point where a transition toward a more API style of calling functions is coming and rereading some R2 View and VID docs to set the stage of what information can be used.
 
3:53 PM
Bad news: my Laptop died about 2 weeks ago, and so far I haven't been able to check my backups.
Good news: I have compiled ren-c on my old netbook by now. Make.sh really works great.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:02 PM
@GrahamChiu yes, install Termux then pkg install gnupg
 
@giuliolunati Good. We have android covered then.
 
Hi people, I need a way to incorporate a "^" in a string without doubling it, so this is my proposal/wish:
1. Keep the {...} syntax as it is.
2. Change the "..." syntax this way:
2.1 Every char but " itself is literal, also newline
2.2 Incorporate " in a string doubling it: "foo""quoted""bar" = {foo"quoted"bar}
How do it feels?
 
6:18 PM
@giuliolunati In my case, it's much more frequent to want to put quotes in strings than carets, so this would make my code messier.
I have wondered if there is some kind of out-of-the-box thinking about escaping we could throw in, to make Rebol even more unique, than by just having the asymmetric string delimiters.
@giuliolunati You could also replace a character in a string with caret. So str: replace/all "abc@def@ghi" "@" caret And if you do that commonly you might specialize it. caretize "abc@def@ghi".
We might argue that all ASCII-range characters are too important as literals, and use a UTF-8 character for escaping.
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE But you could use "{...}" for that
 
@giuliolunati Oh, so you are saying escaping would continue in the { } as it is today?
 
6:33 PM
Absolutely. (Point 1)
 
I see, point 1.
It's an interesting idea.
@ingo Cool that make.sh worked, yeah it's worked on mac and linuxes that I tried it on...
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE useless for me.
 
@giuliolunati It sounds like it could work out. Would be a bit tough for Redbol, but there are probably ways to bridge compatibility by changing LOAD itself with some kind of hook or post-processing...since what is loadable would be a superset.
 
@giuliolunati Hm. So you are disallowing all non-printable characters AND doubling double-quotes (quadruple-quotes!) just to avoid doubling carets?
Also, adding newlines significantly harms usability. One of the benefits of not allowing newlines is early detection of strings that are missing their closing quotes ...
 
@MarkI You can't put any unescaped quotes in "..."-style strings today, so that's a new-but-tangential feature to have the ""
 
6:40 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE My point was it is removing one kind of doubling by adding another.
Escaping is a nightmare no matter what language you are using. Especially English ...
 
I'm wondering if TEXT! should disallow non-printable characters altogether (besides newline), and we just get more clever about how BINARY! works. We get efficiency possibilities with UTF-8 Everywhere on that.
When you think about software being direct and visceral and having less crevices for vulnerability to hide, catering the datatypes to what the vast majority of software wants and needs is an advantage.
I really feel that stopping the embedded 0 bytes is a good start on this, so you can work with APIs like rebSpell(...) that just return a char*. Then if you want bytes of a binary you say rebBytes(&size, ...)... this makes the distinction clear and you are more likely to use them correctly.
And for that matter, I've wondered if the best answer to case-sensitivity in map keys (for instance) is to store them as BINARY!. Because we now can alias back and forth at no cost. (Well, the first time you AS TEXT! on a BINARY! that has never been validated as UTF-8 it checks it, but every time after that the aliasing is more or less free).
My essay on case sensitivity raises a lot of good points, I think in favor of the idea that text is most logically and practically thought of as being caseless.
did parse "Aa" [2 "A"] => true
did parse as binary! "Aa" [2 "A"] => false
^-- we can do this efficiently, and we might argue that visualization tools for "seeing the text parts inside a binary" (e.g. how hex file editors work with the split view of bytes and rendering) might make up for any perceived disadvantages.
 
@MarkI obviously, just in case you need ^ and " in the same string.
Otherwise, you can use {..."..."...}
Some examples: "x^^2 + y^^2 = 1" => "x^2 + y^2 = 1"
"This is \"literal\"" => "This is ""literal""" (But also: {This is "literal"})
"\"x^^2\" means \"x square\"" => """x^2"" means ""x square""" (or {"x^^2" means "x square"})
 
7:11 PM
@giuliolunati I think it sounds like an interesting idea, to further leverage the distinction of the two string types. And being able to use the spacing requirement to extend the string format is the kind of thing I was talking about being able to do... which lets us know that "a""b" and "a" "b" are different.
 
Exactly, the "..." type would be a quasi-raw string
 
@giuliolunati So if you want any newlines in your strings at all, you don't use "..." ? You must use { } and then either have a physical newline or an escaped one?
 
...And if the space around strings (and blocks and groups?) was mandatory, that would open other syntactic possibilities
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE in my proposal newlines in '''-strings should be allowed, like now in {}-strings
I don't see why currently they are forbidden.
Another way: make space around strings mandatory, then introduce one or more syntax variants e.g. "..." stay as it now but r"..." is a raw string, so "^^" = r"^", à la Python (but I don't like that...)
 
@giuliolunati Just to make errors easier to find, I imagine. @rgchris has often wished for TAG! to span lines.
Something I've been fairly unhappy about is how you wind up with indentation on your strings when they span lines.
 
7:29 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Me also!
 
@giuliolunati Looking at what other languages do is good, and I think exploiting Rebol's unique properties (more than one string variation, the space-significance) for the notations should give us some options others don't have. Let's bundle this all under a "review string formats for any better ideas"
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Good!
 
@giuliolunati In related news, see what I've said about CR LF handling in strings... I think we should be making some of these "long bets" that will give an ergonomic edge.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:48 PM
Is there an example of using ren-c async read of http sites somewhere?
@Feeds ... and now I can access my own installation of matrix using ren-c :-)
 
9:06 PM
@ingo prot-http.r is async
 
9:37 PM
@GrahamChiu Thank you, I'll have a look at it again.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:05 PM
@ingo that's why it doesn't block the GUI when used with RebGUI
 

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