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12:01 AM
@GrahamChiu It's not doing anything but pulling out some binary strings of various lengths out of a bigger binary blob (where the size of the strings is encoded in the blob). I don't actually think they ever are variable length in this case (the diffie-hellman /length refinement was not implemented ever)...
Would be nice if there were BigNums in the language, and nice modular parts you can pull down without needing C or recompilation. Something less monolithic; and you would box up only the ciphers you needed. But it's really a hard sell for the language as being any good when the code is that bad for something that simple.
On the brighter side, the state machine concept was a decent starting point for hte original code--a bit closer to executable spec. Then each time I have to go in and mess with it I make part of it a little better. Also it's educational to have these real world problems to look at to inform language design.
And libRebol is really good. Just... really good.
Every BINARY! allocation inside Ren-C always has an extra byte on the end, so it can be zero terminated without a new allocation. That way you can alias it back and forth AS TEXT! if you want to. And you can also allocate memory from Rebol using rebMalloc()...which you can recover into a BINARY! without doing an additional allocation... with rebRepossess().
 
12:17 AM
posted on February 21, 2020 by hostilefork

This PR brings in new C natives for implementing the cryptography math behind the elliptic curve secp256r1, which is popularly used in TLS handshakes today. (Notably the Discourse installation via Docker--as used on forum.rebol.info is by default not willing to connect to anything not using this form of cryptography.) The math comes from a small C implementation of secp256r1 from the "easy-ec

2
 
12:45 AM
@rgchris Been busy fulfilling @GrahamChiu's wishes and now he wants server side https. Do you have anything in particular on your wishlist? Is there a "most viable project which could use Ren-C" in your working set at the moment that help with would make a difference?
The filename canonization is something we can look at, but as I mentioned, I think there's kind of probably no good way to do it besides having more optimal ways to leverage directory listing to get back shorter lists of matching names via wildcarding of some kind.
Then use that to climb up as far as you think canonization is necessary; and that climbing is probably best done in usermode.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:07 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE I've been fulfilling your wish to look at a rebol based alternative to SO chat. Https would make it easier, but I can work around its absence. In the meantime elliptic curves should be a big bonus in accessing those inaccessible sites
 
4:25 AM
hey, anyone available? I need some help with lisp
 
@KasiViswanath Not necessarily the worst place to ask... Rebol is in the sort of "Lisp family group" as the chat room says. But we probably won't know. You can try us.
Rebol is better (For some definition of "better", maybe just "more interesting" is more accurate :-P)
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE I am trying to use use car/cdr recurssion on a list to find the value corresponding to the list
the thing is I am only allowed to use basic functions
 
@KasiViswanath Well, if it's a basic Lisp homework thing I imagine you'd probably find some ideas by searching the site. If you search and put things in brackets, you can filter by tag. e.g. [lisp] recursion equality
@KasiViswanath The main thing to know about asking questions on StackOverflow (if you choose to do so, which I'm now kind of on the not-going-to-do-anymore boat)... is to be sure to show what you've done so far and exactly where you've gotten stuck. See minimal reproducible example
 
4:46 AM
@GrahamChiu +1 Https server mode
 
@Atomica If you'd like to develop it, please feel free to step in (!). It seems that we have a dearth of people able and willing to accept bounties on these things.
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE And there's the problem with Rebol for the last 22 years. I argued this point waay back, and was shunned by the Greggs of the community as a nay sayer. The only reason this project exists at all is your personal willingness to dedicate the time and experience to do it. If you go, so does Ren-C
Red has plans to port Cheyenne.. one day. Which from my observations is way low on the priority list. Nenad spent a long time on that project, only to have little or no interest in the result.
I personally, like others, simply don't have the skill set to help.
 
5:03 AM
@Atomica Things move rather more quickly these days than they used to; the system becomes more agile; I said Ren-C development would speed up over time and Red would slow down over time. Seems true. And yes, it's largely a factor of whether I'm actively working on it or not, but the thing is that I have a good foundation now to make things happen faster and be solid/convergent.
It's unfortunate that there's a fundamental truth to the idea that people who value social connectedness and such would not pick Rebol regardless of technical merit (which for many is a questionable proposition, myself included). Because it means that in the Rebol community you find people like Oldes who would never be satisfied with such a language if he were a people-person.
 
@Atomica good to know. Another useless attack
 
@Atomica I dunno about people not being able to help. So much is in userspace now, whether it's the console or whatever. I could certainly see how in the R3-Alpha days one would puzzle over how to make improvements to the system, no one knew how to change anything. It's different now, though, almost everywhere.
 
@GrahamChiu If you looked at your server logs, you may have a problem sleeping tonight.
I would imagine there's an attack every few seconds
 
I realize that a lot of guys in their 50s with other things on their mind may have trouble finding the time or energy. <shrug> I wander off, too. But I guess I'd just rather hear it phrased as "don't have time" or "don't have interest" than "don't have the skill".
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE "don't have the skill" and "questioning whether I'm willing to commit the required time to obtain the skills" goes without saying.. In fact, I said that in the post, and then deleted it.
 
5:17 AM
@Atomica I doubt you'd lack the skills to muck with the server-side TLS stuff, it's going to be all usermode. And if you can read that Illustrated TLS it's most of the picture. Just see it from the server's point of view.
Anyway, I can assure you I didn't get up and go "oh, boy, elliptic curves--what a treat". To me a lot of this stuff is lacking that timeless element; because you can already see that they just keep obsoleting the old one and it becomes a junkyard of chaotic protocols more insecure due to implementation failures and the rush to change than any actual mathematical threat.
One reasonable quantum computer and all this falls apart, so that's pretty far from timeless.
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE As they say in Quebec "exact"
 
5:40 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Right. You can't argue that either view is better than the other. I have spent so much of my life trying to convince people if you just do this, your life will be so much better, including yourself, Graham, Carl, Nenad...
 
@Atomica You tried to convince me to quit programming and move to Columbia? Hm, I don't remember...
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE You asked yourself the same question in your blog. Not sure about the Colombia part :)
 
@Atomica There is an example that Nenad gave which is actually reasonable in the question of "is Rebol for everyone, and if not who", you may have seen it, but I quote it here: forum.rebol.info/t/…
What I look at is the language question of what is reasonable to expect to work when people are using this model of evaluation to do that kind of kneejerk abstraction. I know it's unreasonable to expect deep magic...the medium is too weak compared to something that has stronger semantic awareness. But given some of the feelings of success people have had despite the limitations, it's interesting to ask if there's a sweet spot of "knowable" mechanical advantage if the evaluator can up its game.
And, I've found a number of neat points. I write about them. I prefer to look at that because to me, the project isn't really interesting if it's only a tool for "getting things done". I can get things done with anything.
 
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Right, but only from your perspective, perhaps others, but it wouldn't be the exact same perspective... that would be impossible.
 
5:59 AM
@Atomica Sort of tangential, but in the "what were they thinking" department: observer.com/2020/02/blue-apron-disaster-silicon-valley
 
I came looking for Rebol 3, I stayed for the philosophy.
 
@Atomica There's an intersection of philosophies so it's a bit hard to pin down.
 
Which is why we pick and choose.
 
I've wondered about the C89 and if it's time to say C99 is for pretty much all practical purposes fine, but the thing is there's really only one feature of C99 I really care about and that's the variadic macros so the API calls don't need rebEND.
 
6:21 AM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE The most interesting part of this article is how recent it is. It's a dot bomb story set in 2020, where no one seems to have learned anything at all.
 
Gotta run... anyway, tomorrow's another day... interested to see how people might chip in if they want to. Serious about this SE alternative for chat and Q&A so interested to see where @GrahamChiu and I can take that. Nite!
 
6:38 AM
Later!
 
 
13 hours later…
7:26 PM
Cool, so I'm able to read the https forum again
because we now have secp256r1
 
 
1 hour later…
8:47 PM
posted on February 22, 2020 by gchiu

>> random/secure n ** Error: /SECURE relied on SHA1, which is now in the Crypt extension and not the core build. Speak up if you need a workaround. So, does this mean the /secure refinement needs to be removed from help?

 

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