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1:04 PM
@iArnold Would that it was
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE Well, helps to be handy with hacking the interpreter then — indeed, doesn’t change the sentiment though
 
 
1 hour later…
2:20 PM
@rgchris I empathize; in particular with the burdens of maintaining piles of legacy in the face of change, where the mire makes programming no longer a recreational activity and you want to move on. Most have indeed moved on (and those who haven't appear to have talents in self-delusion.)
 
Consider it this way: I'm productive in Rebol, but Rebol 2 is outdated and of diminishing capability. The options open to me are Red, Ren-C and R3C, the issues facing Red are exhaustively covered here. Ren-C is a moving target and moving away from what I like about Rebol—my participation seems to have little bearing on that. R3C is obviously contingent on my own endeavour which is not currently in abundance. I don't think it's unreasonable to despair from time to time.
 
2:45 PM
@rgchris Ren-C is a moving target and moving away from what I like about Rebol - you keep saying things like this and having what I consider to be a particularly thin basis for it. I try to work on challenges, but working on them requires a lot of attention to detail and more than a 20 second attention span.
You say "I don't like <*>" and then completely skip over the explanations, offering nothing for why something you wouldn't even have to use--and which supports your general belief of the value of TAG! as an inert systemic type over giving up more tags for non-inert WORD!--is bad. When it's quite good.
As evidenced by me trying to solve the voidification thing--which I don't particularly like either--I think anything you stick to a long and rational discussion about will result in one or the other being convinced of what the right answers are and what mechanisms are needed for it.
As for whether you need to say something is a method vs. a function, this is again something that we can hammer through the combination of needs of the implementation and the needs of the user... but it takes time.
I don't want to hear "but it takes time" glibly condensed repeatedly into "moving in a direction away from your beliefs"
Your participation has plenty of bearing, and I'm not going to sit here and listen to you say it doesn't.
And things such as not liking that /FOO is a PATH! instead of a form of WORD! is really being on the wrong side of history. I think you need to recalibrate with where that's all going.
@rgchris You have a dedicated audience and attention to any code sample you post where you have to write it and go "I don't like having to write it this way". You are not giving those examples and mentioning a few complaints that I am thinking about.
If you stuck around and fleshed out the FUNC/METHOD debate we could make a form of MAKE OBJECT! that does the Rebol2-style "binding pollution" I've warned about, and it would be bad, but you didn't stay long enough to really explore the reasons why I think it's bad.
The best default is usually "none of the above" and that... takes... time.
 
3:01 PM
I agree—the problems you're trying to solve will take time. I may or may not agree that they are problems I share, I don't know. I don't have a problem participating if I can continue to be productive. However, my path to productivity is still Rebol 2 and that is increasingly untenable.
 
I'd be soundly surprised if someone in your position got a better offer than me saying "okay...let's together make whatever you're working on a showcase project...we'll hammer through it line by line until we're both happy with it, and put it on Travis and keep it alive and working".
 
3:34 PM
@HostileForksaysdonttrustSE I'm not knocking it, and will likely take you up on it. Even so, it's a big undertaking and I need to be sure I'm well-placed to follow through (which I haven't been as yet)
 
My opinion is that the design for Ren-C is far along enough it is worth seeing through. I am committed to some form of that follow-through, assuming I don't die before that happens.
And hopefully I'll be able to resume traveling next year, but at the moment, I'm kind of stuck doing just this (and a couple other programming explorations just to break the monotony)
 
3:49 PM
I'm still grappling with the general proposition that I find programming inherently unhealthy. That some of my more productive sessions consume a lot of consecutive hours after which I do not feel great—even when balancing the mental health benefits of solving problems, ordering thoughts and getting things done. It was something that was easier to roll with when I was younger and would bounce back quicker. I've not yet found continuity in shorter sessions with more physical activity in between.
 
@rgchris Yes, well, I've given it up for a while at various stretches in life.
But like they say about artists. They'd do it whether there's money in it or not; because they can't not do it.
 
Yep
 

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