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12:10 AM
@Respectech we have that too in hackerspace.sg on the wall in the hallway leading towards the toilet... ;D
okay, it's leading from the toilet towards the main area..
 
12:50 AM
i just tried this on the [Cloud9 IDE](c9.io) and it worked!
curl -O rebolsource.net/downloads/linux-x86/r3-g4d9840f
curl -O raw.github.com/hostilefork/rebmu/master/rebmu.rebol
curl -O raw.github.com/hostilefork/rebmu/master/mushing.rebol
curl -O raw.github.com/hostilefork/rebmu/master/mulibrary.rebol
./r3-g4d9840f -q --do 'do %rebmu.rebol rebmu [pr"HEllO, REBmu!"]'
if im correct, it means we can do collaborative development on c9.io ... :/
 
1:04 AM
@onetom Interesting idea. It appears to be a web app development environment with an integrated linux vm. Free for use on open source projects. Looks like it can be enhanced for other languages as well. Worth a bit more investigation
 
@onetom sounds cool.. Need to check into it
 
@johnk @kealist do u want to try the collaborative mode? my email address is hermantamas at gmail. send my your emails and i will invite u in a test project
 
@onetom Mine is just this usename at gmail
 
actually onetom at hackerspace dot sg ...
hmm... and actually you can even point to your own ssh server... i need to play a bit more with this thing i think
this is the project; im not sure how to invite ppl into it, but maybe i dont have to because it's public
 
1:37 AM
@kealist or should we discuss it here?
 
@RemasAhmed Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Sadly you won't be able to talk to us at present. You need a few more reputation points on Stackoverflow to join these chat rooms. If you answer some questions, or ask some, we might be able to help by upvoting you. In the meantime, have a look at a Rebol introduction.
 
@onetom, looks interesting. I am with friends, so a little off and on, not much time to play right now
I haven't done much of the collaborative coding, but open to see what it's like
I have a lot to learn of course
 
it looks like we can have more collaborative editing, just have to turn on autosave and automerge: docs.c9.io/collaboration.html
 
1:56 AM
@rebol @DocKimbel @HostileFork Rebol and Red on Cloud9 with collaborative editing and shell access! (no syntax highlighting though)
3
 
@onetom Looks like good news. And using curl to get latest Rebmu might be an answer to the question of getting Rebmu onto anagol, maybe... the guy who made code Golf suggested I figure out how to get on that
 
@HostileFork what are your feelings toward a rebmu encapped with rebol2? :)
or can we bundle rebmu w rebol3 easily too?
im asking because im just about to work on chenyenne's contignous integration. it would in turn be usable for building a rebmu binary automatically on every commit too
 
2:13 AM
@earl is right, @pekr, though thanks for the general backup. I didn't promise I would integrate Saphirion's TLS sight-unseen. I said that it's difficult to make general strategic decisions for all involved without a timeline or being able to see the source. If we can't evaluate it then we may not know if it's the implementation we want or not.
@onetom It's already a bit difficult to keep all the Rebmu examples up to date and running as I tweak the design... and outside of general Rebol2 objections I usually have, the testing matrix of another language compatibility would be difficult and make it hard for other people to play and test the examples.
 
2:38 AM
0
Q: Interleave blocks, or make object out of two blocks (field names and values)

HostileForkInstead of creating objects by writing: obj: object [ name: "Fork" id: 1020 ] I'd like to write something like... obj: something-or-another [name id] ["Fork" 1020] ...and get the same result. An ideal solution would also permit: obj: something-or-another [name: id:] ["Fork" 1020] ...

 
@onetom That makes it sound a little better. ;-)
 
2:59 AM
0
A: Interleave blocks, or make object out of two blocks (field names and values)

rgchrisI don't believe there's a baked-in way to do this. Not difficult though: func [words values][ set words: context append map-each word words [to-set-word word] none values words ]

 
3:17 AM
@HostileFork I still think the more elegant solution (pre-encap/Red) is to run it as a shell script. Be very nice to run it from shell as simply rebmu DnowRjRkILd/7 6[pDT[adJk]]
 
@HostileFork I should have said offered to try
 
@rgchris just he proposed at the conference in regard to the QR codes
 
3:33 AM
@onetom Cool, thanks! I'll use that as a reference. Want to answer another Rebmu question first though, so there's something new and interesting to look at. Kind of running into a challenge at making my answer to creature battle interesting.
Might scrap it, but every attempt is somewhat educational.
 
3:53 AM
@onetom Good, wouldn't want to contradict the good Doctor Dr :)
 
@rgchris Well I'm all for anything that gets people to try out Rebmu, and help improve it... ! I did my "pre-cleanup" to improve it a little but there's still a lot of improving that could be done.
My hope with the interleaving was to help with the creature input of getting [goblin 50 40 35 3 2 elf 50 35 30 4 5] into an object. I wanted to write a competitive program while still being able to index the attributes by object, so taking the result of a SPLIT/EVENLY 2 (any other votes on that /EVENLY name?) as SPLE and cross it with an unmush of [nmHLsgDFacAG], for fairly literate picking of the o/nm, o/hl, o/sg (name, health strength, etc)
 
split/midway split/middle (?)
 
4:08 AM
Well, I didn't want to invent /MIDWAY... I meant that /EVENLY was my suggestion to replace /INTO.
 
:P
 
split/pieces is a fair option considering the help string is split into n pieces, rather than pieces of length n
 
i would use
split/skip series 3 ; for the "length of" behaviour and
split series 3 ; for the "into pieces" version
 
@johnk It would thus need rewriting as "split into n pieces, rather than parts of length n" to distinguish between a part and a piece. But I think it's just sort of making up meanings for things at that point. What I like about "evenly" is that it doesn't involve inventing a concept that doesn't exist...
 
split/part series 3 ?
 
4:15 AM
split/fairly :)
 
that would be split/lah or split/mah around here :)
 
@GrahamChiu Except it's not fair. Some series positions don't get anything sometimes, or otherwise one position might get more than everyone else.
 
split/size series 3 ?
and just make /evenly the default behaviour
 
@onetom I like the skip idea but it "reverses the polarity", as it were. I don't think that's a problem personally but presumably it's biased the way it is for a reason. I think /evenly gets around a lot of the "size of the runs, vs the size of the final result" questions. Those are the only two that I think hold up as making sense I've heard so far.
 
@onetom Which would be more common?
 
4:20 AM
@rgchris yes :) -- as Ron said at the conference
that's where the question boils down to
 
Common vs. Expected...
 
im just proposing that changing the default might solve the problem via making the problem go away :)
or to be more precise, leave us with another problem which is easier to solve
are we planning to still support /into and change the behaviour to the usual series behaviour?
split/up series 3
 
No, /INTO has a fairly specific meaning used by operations that ordinarily return a new series but can take an argument of an existing one to put the results without using intermediate storage.
I think that /up, /pieces, /parts, /into all suffer from semantic problems that you could come up with a phrasing where you can combine it with a number and get either meaning
So you really need something asymmetric in there... like /SKIP or /EVENLY that you really can't reasonably phrase to have the opposite meaning of the behavior
Take "Split up these M&Ms evenly... 4" You kind of have to do some verbal acrobatics to get to: "Split these M&Ms into groups, where each group is evenly distributed 4 M&Ms." Whereas "Evenly divide these M&Ms into 4 groups." is natural.
(Evenly divide these M&Ms into groups of 4 is hard to get, I meant. What does evenly mean in that case?)
 
4:39 AM
split/using ... [ some rule ]
 
@GrahamChiu Dialects are clearer. But then will we someday be saying simple split that just takes a character set should be it's own function and /using is the default?
 
My inclination is split/into be default (based on expressivity, not common use). Was there a CC ticket for this discussion?
split/divide might work semantically instead of /into
 
Anyway, the real reason we got off on this tangent was related to making parse's purpose and scope of application more clear. As a tricky-to-understand but useful thing, having to explain "and sometimes it does this other thing..." got in the way of being able to say what parse does, just as /ALL was a headache. As has been pointed out, it's often the case that length of discussion does not map directly to importance of issue...
I think "not /INTO" is the only real issue of consequence. I like /SKIP personally, and I think when I say "SPLIT X 2" I usually hear that as "Split X in TWO" as in two parts, not a potentially huge number of two-sized things.
@rgchris I think CC2051 is as good a place as any
Due to this discussion I've realized a bit more @BrianH's "why not to call a reverse polarity on something like APPEND as APPEND/INTO". Because you're not taking an operation that usually returns series data and telling it to instead take that return result and put it directly in the series without intermediates. What it really is, as @Inaimathi said, is APPEND/SPLICE.
@RebolBot
my-path: quote d/e/f
append [a b c] my-path
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> my-path: quote d/e/f append [a b c] my-path
== [a b c d e f]
 
4:56 AM
@RebolBot
my-string: "def"
append [a b c] my-string
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> my-string: "def" append [a b c] my-string
== [a b c "def"]
 
So why not == [a b c #"d" #"e" #"f"] if series are spliced by default? :-/
 
posted on August 21, 2013 by rgchris

[Comment] Is it certain that `split/into` shouldn't be default and defer the current default to a `split/skip` or `split/length`? To say `split "something" 4`, it might be expected that it splits into four parts. `split/skip "something" 4` would slice into four-sized pieces.

 
5:29 AM
posted on August 21, 2013 by fork

[Comment] +1 for the switch and calling the old default behavior split/skip (as proposed by @onetom) The current default skipping behavior is pretty Rebol specific. "I split the rope in two" means something in English, and it does not mean you split the rope in many pieces of size 2 split/length has the problem as with /into... are you splitting with the intent of producing a result which wi

 
 
2 hours later…
7:34 AM
@HostileFork You wrote: "@Ladislav You are somewhat close to the issue with Saphirion. Yet on other closed source projects..." You are creating a terminological mess for the purposes known to you but the purposes don't look to me as exactly clean since you know better than that. Saphirion is not "a closed source project" at all. Saphirion is a legal person. That should show how objective your informations are.
 
7:44 AM
...yet, that Saphirion (the legal person you are trying to call "closed-source project") is following an open source project to improve the R3 interpreter and some documentation and publish these at the Saphirion GitHub and other sites. That is the truth.
 
just a note - legal person - isn't it kind of direct translation from CZ? Maybe a legal entity, or simply a commercial company, would be a better term, but hopefully everybody here can understand ...
 
0
A: Interleave blocks, or make object out of two blocks (field names and values)

endo64I wrote a similar function (Rebol2) just a few days ago: build-object: func [ "Builds an object from a block" names [block!] "Field names" /values val "Initial values" /local o values-rule name value ] [ values-rule: [ binary! | bitset! | block! | char! | date! | deci...

 
engadget.com/2013/08/20/facebook-and-others-form-internet-org - Internet.org. So - big player are planning to focus on more efficient apps, communication. X-Internet anyone, Carl was envisioning 10 or more years ago?
 
@pekr you should have read some sources before trying to amend my words. "Legal person" ("persona iuris" in Latin) is a widely used legal (juridical) concept.
 
8:03 AM
I have never seen referring to a company or a corporation by using a term - "legal person", but whatever. I could understand, if Robert would be just one person, not e.g. ltd (gmbh) ... I used this meaning - simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_entity , while you might refer to this - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_personality
 
@pekr What you "have never seen" could fill many books, I am sure :-p
 
@pekr Yes, the term would be legal entity. Never heard of a company being called a legal person. We use english and not latin.
 
Yes, working in 2 big corporations around here for more than 15 years, seeing many contracts, I expect all our lawyers being ineducated not using a legal person term :-)
but that is just nitpicking, cause I really thought, that you used some kind of direct translation, not even knowing, the term legal person would exist in wikipedia, so I at least learned something new :-)
 
@onetom I've tested c9, when it was first announced. It's nice to have for doing some Red coding from Android or iOS, but beyond that, I don't see much usage for it, except the obvious pair programming case, which isn't, so far, a common practice in this community.
 
@GrahamChiu An upgrade from "never seen" to "never heard"? From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_personality - "The concept of a legal person is now central to Western law in both common-law and civil-law countries" :-p
 
8:15 AM
@Ladislav A corporation would be called Legal Persons
 
btw - as for c9, it is default dev environment for BeagleBone ....
 
@DocKimbel well, i can definitely teach people rebol/red easier remotely even if they only have windows environment...
you can also just jump in to a dev environment very easily to help debug things
 
@pekr Good point, we could use it from a RPi too for Red coding.
 
btw - BBB, uses node.js, they let ppl code in javascript.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:48 AM
@GrahamChiu I believe not. In law a corporation is considered a person (singular). A corporation has the same rights and obligations as a natural person in a contract. That is to say, in law, a corporation acts singularly.
 
 
3 hours later…
12:59 PM
@RebolBot
test: funct [] [parse "a" [copy value to end]]
test
print value
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> test: funct [] [parse "a" [copy value to end]] test print value
a
 
Generally it seems that if a dialect has a construct in it that takes a name that intends to be a value to set, it should be a set-word!, e.g. copy value: to end. It's doesn't address rules defined outside a function, but one could argue that if you defined the rule outside the function then the variable you expected to set lived in the context where the rule was defined...
 
1:15 PM
@Ladislav I'm using English as it comes naturally to me, and to say someone is "close to an issue" is just to say that it is hard for you to be unbiased. I think it is best to not get too far off topic with the language challenges. I'm happy to clarify, and if you assume goodwill, then I will too.
I am aware there is not a tremendous independent community effort in updating Rebol's C sources, or making a development roadmap, and that much of the work right now that is happening is coming from Saphirion's investment.
Yet I think this is not an ideal situation. By contrast, you may think things will proceed to your liking--on a timeline with which you are satisfied--if things continue on this track. In which case we will have to agree to disagree.
I myself stopped working on the C sources for Rebol when contributions weren't being pulled into mainline, and things seemed stalled. I felt that getting the organizational structure in shape was more important than writing small patches that would languish on a branch in my own repository. There was a good clip and feeling of progress this past weekend, and that's how it should feel more of the time (if not most).
 
Floor to ceiling boxes around here. Moving house tomorrow so not much spare time.
 
@johnk Moving is a pain. Even not having much, it's a pain.
 
1:35 PM
Looking forward to having some more space
 
1:46 PM
@HostileFork To be fair, the main reason that the append case is confusing is that it does double-duty as append and snoc. That is, you're expected to call it whether you're trying to put two sequences together or trying to add an element to an existing sequence. In the second case, append/only does the same thing as append. If you come at it with that mindset, then some of its behavior doesn't make sense.
@RebolBot append [ 1 2 3 ] 'a/b
 
@Inaimathi Can you elaborate on that?
 
Ok, how do I actually poke at this thing?
 
@Inaimathi What do you mean?
 
@Inaimathi Without a newline RebolBot assumes you are writing in its dialect. The newline (Shift-Enter) is a way of shifting it automatically into running raw Rebol code.
 
@RebolBot
append %foo. [ 1 2 3 ]
 
1:49 PM
@RebolBot "I'm famous" for Inaimathi
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> append [1 2 3] 'a/b
== [1 2 3 a b]
@HostileFork Me on StackApps
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> append [1 2 3] %foo.txt
== [1 2 3 %foo.txt]
@HostileFork Me on StackApps
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> append [1 2 3] 2
== [1 2 3 2]
@HostileFork Me on StackApps
 
@johnk RebolBot is having problems. Is the safety net up? Should I test "shut up"?
 
[+1] and [like] buttons added to Red site, that should help raise it higher in the search results, so feel free to click if you have G+/FB profiles. ;-)
2
 
It's posting multiple times because of editing. Somehow it's doing @hostilefork s message again too
 
I think that @Inaimathi made a couple of edits to his call to the bot and for some reason your request was also repeated
 
1:57 PM
@RebolBot tweet {My description has been updated for clarity and readability, someday I'll do it myself! stackapps.com/questions/3960}
 
@HostileFork Sending this as a tweet: My description has been updated for clarity and readability, someday I'll do it myself! stackapps.com/questions/3960
 
@johnk I think RebolBot help should return the Stackapps page (or equivalent). The help is too long to post in chat, and can't be formatted as well.
 
I bet rebolbot repeated because of the "for @" for the same user as the edited post
 
@kealist I omitted the @ sign and it just replied to me. :-/
@RebolBot alive? for @kealist
 
@HostileFork I'm a-liiiiive!!! @kealist
 
2:04 PM
Doh! Thought I was clever!
 
@HostileFork Good point. It is a nice example of code given that the help strings are pulled directly from the independent commands.
 
@johnk Even cooler if it edits its own StackOverflow apps page on a nightly basis if there are changes. :-) We could probably talk the admins into changing the ownership of that post from Graham's account to an account owned by the bot.
 
@HostileFork Nightly!? Realtime or nothing :-)
 
Hi! Title of this chat was place I first time saw REBOL mentioned. Language looks really interesting for me. My point of interest is languages like common lisp and factor, with simple syntax and flexible semantics. Rebol looks like a language with similar concepts in regard to DSLs, but different approach. Looking to dig deeper into rebol in nearest future.
P.S. Minsk is a capital of Belarus, it is not in Russia.
 
@alesguzik Heya! Welcome back. Yes, Rebol has Lisp heritage... but has dressed things up in a different way. For instance...
 
2:08 PM
Welcome @alesguzik
 
@RebolBot
value: quote (a b c d)
print [{Type of value is} type? value {and it is of length} length? value {with a third element of} third value]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> value: quote (a b c d) print ["Type of value is" type? value "and it is of length" length? value "with a third element of" third value]
Type of value is paren! and it is of length 4 with a third element of c
 
@RebolBot
value: [a b c d]
print [{Type of value is} type? value {and it is of length} length? value {with a third element of} third value]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> value: [a b c d] print ["Type of value is" type? value "and it is of length" length? value "with a third element of" third value]
Type of value is block! and it is of length 4 with a third element of c
 
@RebolBot
value: quote a/b/c/d
print [{Type of value is} type? value {and it is of length} length? value {with a third element of} third value]
 
2:10 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> value: quote a/b/c/d print ["Type of value is" type? value "and it is of length" length? value "with a third element of" third value]
Type of value is path! and it is of length 4 with a third element of c
 
@kealist thanks
@HostileFork what'd you suggest as a starting point for learning Rebol?
 
@alesguzik So you see, lexically Rebol supports some various series types which support the same operations. While Lisp doesn't really have a way of putting "flavors" on lists, Rebol does. This puts more tinkertoys in the box for your design of dialects, as you can give each of these different types meanings in context.
@alesguzik Hanging out with us, of course. :-) Well, Rebol2 was not open source and Rebol3 is, and most of the good tutorial material was for Rebol2 which I now tell people to please not install or mention. So pretend I didn't mention it. (Rebol3 is effectively the only Rebol, now.)
 
@HostileFork CLOS allows you to implement any types you want and specify any operations on it using generic functions
 
@alesguzik What's an interesting CLOS example that you think demonstrates why it is cool? (RebolBot can eval languages known to ideone, but that's not on it, unfortunately).
 
Doesn't rebolbot have an introduction to rebol command that lists good starting documents?
 
2:18 PM
@kealist I like the "talking to us" angle. More personal, helps guide development of new material relevant to the kids of today. I'd like to see most of the existing websites get forwarded to modern community-maintained subdomains of rebol.net
Once we get the emscripten online tutorial script--again community editable--I'll feel better about sending people to that as a first start.
@alesguzik Also, reading StackOverflow questions tagged can be instructive. If anything is confusing let us know and we'll go fix it.
 
@johnk Yeah, I was doing the lazy thing of <C-up> and editing for the additional expressions.
Also,
@RebolBot
append %foo [1 2 3]
 
@Inaimathi That's fine, but if RebolBot catches the edit it will evaluate again. The multiple response to my request as a consequence is a bug though.
 
@RebolBot tutorial for @alesguzik
 
@johnk Introduction to Rebol @alesguzik
 
Yes, that is rebol 2, but the majority is valid in rebol 3
@HostileFork Added to the issue tracker for rebolbot
@rebolbot goodnight
 
2:31 PM
@johnk goodnight to you too
 
@HostileFork (mapcar (lambda (e) (format nil "Type of value is ~A and it is of lenght ~A with a third element of ~A" (class-of e) (length e) (elt e 3) )) (list '(a b c d) (vector 'a 'b 'c 'd)))
@johnk @johnk thanks for tutorial
I see rebol PKGBUILD in AUR, but it tagged version 2.7.8. is it rebol 3 or rebol 2 was also opensourced?
 
@RebolBot
map-each value [
    (a b c d) [a b c d] a/b/c/d
] [
    print [
        {Type of value is} type? value
        {and it is of length} length? value
        {with a third element of} pick value 3
    ]
]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> map-each value [(a b c d) [a b c d] a/b/c/d] [print ["Type of value is" type? value "and it is of length" length? value "with a third element of" pick value 3]]
Type of value is paren! and it is of length 4 with a third element of c
Type of value is block! and it is of length 4 with a third element of c
Type of value is path! and it is of length 4 with a third element of c
== []
 
@alesguzik Right. I was drawing this as a contrast, in that Rebol allows for sort of a greater literacy, in a power-packed tiny zero-install executable (not even compressed, with executable compression or otherwise)... lots of cool built in stuff and a lot of swiss-army-knife power.
 
@HostileFork why path! is considered a collection? that looks strange for me
 
2:37 PM
@alesguzik It's not a file path, for which we have filename.
@RebolBot
length? %/foo/bar/baz.txt
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> length? %/foo/bar/baz.txt
== 16
 
It's an abstract "path". Just another kind of series. What you use it for in your dialects is up to you, but by default Rebol sort of makes it do triple duty for picking fields out of objects... array indexing... specifying additional arguments to functions...
@RebolBot
foo: [a [b [c d] e] [f g h]]
probe foo/2/2/1
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> foo: [a [b [c d] e] [f g h]] probe foo/2/2/1
c
== c
 
@alesguzik In that case, the evaluator decided that when it saw a path and recognized the first element was a block type, it interpreted the later elements in the path as an intention of picking an item out of the block. That kept going. As the first element of the second element of the second element of foo was c, that's what you got.
The evaluator would have made different decisions if the first element of that series was a function, or an object, etc. But these are really tinkertoys; in an unevaluated context, you can make it mean what you want; it's just data.
If you're used to code-as-data, this makes sense. If you're used to the rules of how the evaluator works being simple and fitting on one paragraph of lambda calculus... well... that's not how things work in Rebol.
 
@HostileFork cool stuff! never thought of pathes in this way.lisp is not much about lambda calculus, but more about macros and code-as-data.
 
2:47 PM
@RebolBot
value: #{DECAFBAD}
print [{The type of value is} type? value {and its length is} length? value {and its third value is} third value]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> value: #{DECAFBAD} print ["The type of value is" type? value "and its length is" length? value "and its third value is" third value]
The type of value is binary! and its length is 4 and its third value is 251
 
@RebolBot
type? hostilefork.com
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> type? hostilefork.com
== url!
 
@RebolBot
copy/part read hostilefork.com 80
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> copy/part read hostilefork.com 80
== #{
3C21444F43545950452068746D6C205055424C494320222D2F2F5733432F2F44
5444205848544D4C20312E30205472616E736974696F6E616C2F2F454E222022
687474703A2F2F7777772E77332E6F72
}
 
2:49 PM
@alesguzik Those are the first 80 bytes of reading from my website. It's UTF-8 encoded data. The read function "sniffed" the parameter it got, knew it was a "URL-flavored" string, and thus dispatched to the http protocol to get it. In this case, you see the PATH! of length 2 having a behavior because the first element was deemed to be a function, and so the second element being PART it used that to realize I didn't want a full copy of the data but rather to have a second parameter.
 
@HostileFork why haven't it returned UTF-8 string?
@HostileFork and how to manage it to do so?
 
@alesguzik Because Rebol has a native type for binaries and sometimes that's what you want. The TO operation converts between datatypes.
@RebolBot
copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 80
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> copy/part to string! read hostilefork.com 80
== {<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.or}
 
@alesguzik One of the real Rebol killer tools is a dialect called PARSE. If you want to start having fun with Rebol right away, and making it useful in your day to day, I think it's a good place to go. You will scream bloody murder if anyone makes you write a RegEx after that...
@RebolBot
parse "aaaaabbbccc" [some "a" 3 "b" 3 "c" any "d"]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aaaaabbbccc" [some "a" 3 "b" 3 "c" any "d"]
== true
 
2:54 PM
Some (non-zero) number of letter a, followed by exactly 3 b and 3 c, then any number of d (zero is okay). Reach the end of the input stream by the end of the match rules, you get true. If not, false.
 
@HostileFork this looks alot like github.com/ryan-endacott/verbal_expressions
 
But there's quite a lot more in there. For instance, if something is in a parentheses, it is evaluated if you get to that point in the match rule.
@RebolBot
parse "aababab" [some ["a" (print "found a") | "b" (print "found b")]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse "aababab" [some ["a" (print "found a") | "b" (print "found b")]]
found a
found a
found b
found a
found b
found a
found b
== true
 
@RebolBot
parse #{FFFFFFFFDECAFBAD000000} [some #{FF} copy value to #{00} (print value) to end]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> parse #{FFFFFFFFDECAFBAD000000} [some #{FF} copy value to #{00} (print value) to end]
#{DECAFBAD}
== true
 
2:58 PM
@RebolBot
rule: ['apple | 'banana]
parse [apple apple banana banana orange apple banana] [some [rule | 'orange (print "orange ya glad...")]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> rule: ['apple | 'banana] parse [apple apple banana banana orange apple banana] [some [rule | 'orange (print "orange ya glad...")]]
orange ya glad...
== true
 
@alesguzik Yes, except, that's not cool and doesn't fit in under half a megabyte cross-platform zero install with network protocols and encryption and... :-)
...work on symbolic structures as well as binaries or other series, permit variable substitution composition for rules, in a homoiconic language where the rules themselves can be easily built and reflected with meta-programming.
Otherwise pretty similar. :-)
 
@HostileFork :)
 
If you're interested in another cool effort, check out Red.
3
 
@HostileFork is there some way to debug or watch how code got interpreted/evaluated? For example you have said that pathes may work different depending on types. How can I track that behaviour?
 
3:13 PM
@RebolBot
trace on
print [reverse {kizugsela@} "there are some tracing abilities, but that granularity for the evaluator would require loading the interpreter into a C debugger."]
trace off
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> trace on print [reverse "kizugsela@" {there are some tracing abilities, but that granularity for the evaluator would require loading the interpreter into a C debugger.}] trace off
<-- trace == unset!
 3: print : native! [value]
 4: [reverse "kizugsela@" {there are some tracing abil
    --> print
     1: reverse : action! [series /part length]
     2: "kizugsela@"
        --> reverse
    <-- reverse == "@alesguzik"
     3: {there are some tracing abilities, but that granul
 
@HostileFork output looks pretty sane.
@HostileFork looks like all-in-one binary does not include gui package:
>> Demo
Fetching demo...
Script: "R3 GUI - Development Test Script" Version: 0.1.2 Date: none
This R3 release does not provide a graphics system.
The demo cannot be shown.
 
@alesguzik Yes, there is some long history behind the project. It was open sourced in December of last year after 15 years. The Gui redesign in Rebol3 did not reach the maturity of the one in Rebol2.
The current offering which has a Gui is a binary-only provided by a commercial sponsor of Rebol development. I don't use it, and some controversy you might see in the room here is me vetting the "contract" as it may exist between the fledgling open-source community and their interests and schedule. It's a touchy subject.
So I prefer to focus people on the interesting language features independent of the Gui, and sticking to keeping the outreach efforts on a tool we can stand behind as fully open source. But it is only my advice. If you want to disregard it: http://development.saphirion.com/rebol/
I personally never cared much for Rebol's Gui strategy, with statements like "Hey the 80's called, and they _don't_ want their cash register back. They said keep it, but asked if we knew how to send them back some native UI widgets."
 
3:36 PM
@HostileFork I'm perfectly comfortable with cli-only tools and I can't remember any proprietary tools I use
@HostileFork what is the situation with 3rd party libraries in rebol?
how does libraries are shared? I mean, something like gems in ruby, quicklisp in common lisp, pip in python.
 
@alesguzik That is being hammered out, although since Rebol has HTTP native in the interpreter, if you pass a URL to "DO" it will download the code and run it. DO is Rebol's eval, and you can pass it various types. If that type is a filename (begins with %) then it will go to the local filesystem. If it's a URL it will use the relevant network scheme. If it's just a block of symbolic code, it runs it as is...
@RebolBot
do [1 + 2]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do [1 + 2]
== 3
 
@RebolBot
do reb4.me/r3/altxml
weather: load-xml/dom weather.yahooapis.com/forecastrss?p=19143
weather: pick weather/get-by-tag <condition> 1
weather: context [temp: rejoin [weather/get #temp "°F"] sky: weather/get #text]
? weather
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do reb4.me/r3/altxml weather: load-xml/dom weather.yahooapis.com/forecastrss?p=19143 weather: pick weather/get-by-tag <condition> 1 weather: context [temp: rejoin [weather/get #temp "°F"] sky: weather/get #text] ? weather
WEATHER is an object of value:
   temp            string!   "80°F"
   sky             string!   "Partly Cloudy"
 
@alesguzik So at least we have that feature. A local module package manager is still being hammered out, and another thing I want us to work through is a better module curation where you can know if you're using something that those in the know have "blessed" or not.
Note also we have a TAG! string flavor, for things beginning < and ending >. Notationally, these little touches do make for nicer code.
 
3:52 PM
@HostileFork about tags, in factor I can do
"one two three" " " split
[ [XML <item><-></item> XML] ] map
<XML <doc><-></doc> XML>
xml>string .
And it will output <?xml version=\"1.0\" encoding=\"UTF-8\"?><doc><item>one</item><item>two</item><item>three</item></doc>
And it is library routines
 
@alesguzik I don't know factor, but Rebol tends to be biased against any building in of XML-ish stuff based on the idea that it is not going to last...
@RebolBot xmlflawed? for @alesguzik
 
@HostileFork Was XML Flawed from the Start? @alesguzik
 
It's just an example of embedded language
another example:
LIBRARY: foo
FUNCTION: void the_answer ( c-string question, int value ) ;
"the question" 42 the_answer
The answer to the question is 42.
this will load foo.so and call the_answer C function via libffi and return the answer. all with type conversions and propper memory management
in this case void is return type, so it won't return anything, but you got the idea
 
@alesguzik Rebol's parse rules are fixed, so if a language doesn't support Rebol's syntax you start having to either put things in strings or map them. There's no way to override semicolon as a comment character... for instance.
 
@HostileFork in example above you referenced reb4.me website. Are there anywhere collection of links to sites which has useful libraries?
 
4:00 PM
While there is a C importation mechanism in Rebol, Red is trying a lot harder to wedge itself into other toolchains.
@alesguzik Not the good one I would like, I'm afraid. We were doing a scrape of rebol.org to take it down and archive it, redirect all the old links, and replace it with modules.rebol.org or somesuch.
 
@HostileFork rebol couldn't have anything similar to reader macros?
 
@alesguzik Had to look up what those were. Well.
@RebolBot
v: func [stuff [string!]] [do load reverse stuff]
v{"iH" tnirp}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> v: func [stuff [string!]] [do load reverse stuff] v {"iH" tnirp}
Hi
 
"Sky's the limit when you're willing to delimit". But the Rebol parser is not itself extensible. Interestingly, it can nest braces in its string syntax...
@RebolBot
print {"You know," said {Fork}, "it's kind of silly in those languages that have two string expressions, one with quotes and the other with apostrophes, because both come up a lot. Better to use something rarer and asymmetric you usually refer to in pairs.}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print {"You know," said {Fork}, "it's kind of silly in those languages that have two string expressions, one with quotes and the other with apostrophes, because both come up a lot.  Better to use something rarer and asymmetric you usually refer to in pairs.}
"You know," said {Fork}, "it's kind of silly in those languages that have two string expressions, one with quotes and the other with apostrophes, because both come up a lot.  Better to use something rarer and asymmetric you usually refer to in pairs.
 
4:11 PM
We also prefer not having to hit shift to get a ( or a ) and stick with the non-shifted [ and ], though I don't know about Minsk keyboards.
 
@HostileFork am I right that {} returns just a string it encloses, then you reverse it and eval. This way it won't work with closures, as place you eval the code is different from place you write it.
@HostileFork most keyboards are absolutely the same as any european/american. Most people just use 2 keyboard layouts: qwerty and russian. I use typematrix 2030 keyboard and use dvorak layout for typing in english
 
Hello, @alesguzik. I was just in Ukraine last summer for three months. I have a friend who lives in Belarus as well. @HostileFork mentioned something about Minsk, so I assume you live in Belarus.
 
@Respectech yep, I am. Nice to hear it. There even may be a change I know him. What's his name?
 
@alesguzik As I said, never heard of reader macros. Rebol's concept of "binding" is a bit complex regardless, and if you figure it out explain it to me. @Ladislav has a document for Rebol2 famously called Bindology. @BrianH wrote a summary of changes in Rebol3 as a StackOverflow answer
I'd encourage you to do some tests to see if you can get what you want, and ask Q&A. We need more exploration of what's possible. I've got my hands full with the likes of Rebmu... :-)
 
@alesguzik Andrey Ryzhkov
 
4:30 PM
@Respectech sorry, haven't heard of him.
@RebolBot
DnowRjRkILd/7 6[pDT[adJk]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/script-no-value.html
>> DnowRjRkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]
*** ERROR
** Script error: DnowRjRkILd has no value
** Where:
** Near: try load/all join %/users/try-REBOL/data/ system/script/args...
 
@alesguzik His wife is Inna Ryzhkov. But there are millions of people in Belarus.
 
@Respectech sure. Just thought I may have met him at some local IT conferences
@RebolBot
do https://raw.github.com/hostilefork/rebmu/master/rebmu.rebol
DnowRjRkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]
 
@alesguzik What do you mean?
 
@alesguzik You'd need to use a URL and unfortunately the current open source Rebol doesn't support https, which GitHub uses. One sec. I should probably host a copy anyway.
 
4:34 PM
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
; rebol.com/r3/docs/errors/access-no-scheme.html
>> do raw.github.com/hostilefork/rebmu/master/rebmu.rebol DnowRjRkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]
*** ERROR
** access error: missing port scheme: https
 
@HostileFork anyway Rebmu looks really cool. Reminds me of Kona language
 
@RebolBot
do http://metaeducation.com/media/shared/rebmu/rebmu.rebol
rebmu [DnowRjRkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do metaeducation.com/media/shared/rebmu/rebmu.rebol rebmu [DnowRjRkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]]
** Access error: cannot open: %mulibrary.rebol reason: -3
** Where: read either read-decode case load -apply- do catch either either -apply- do try do either either either -apply-
** Near: read source if find system/options/file-types type [data: de...

>>
 
Hrrrm. How do I get scripts to do path local, regardless of http or file? :-/ Never done this. @respectech, @earl?
The includes I used are currently by file, but I want to just use the stem of wherever the script came from, for relative paths.
 
You don't with a remote script—you need to specify the full network path.
 
4:41 PM
@rgchris :-/ Fundamental, unfixable problem? Or bug/wish?
 
Relative files only work when you 'do from a directory you can CD.
@HostileFork Definite wish.
 
Grumble grumble. Ok.
 
I include full paths on my dependencies, eg. in this script reb4.me/r/rest-curl
 
I think it requires integers to be entered from keyboard
 
@RebolBot delete
Oh, right. That was written to take standard input.
 
4:45 PM
Have to go, guys. Nice to meet you and see you later. Bye!
 
@alesguzik Sure, cya later! Thanks for stopping in!
@RebolBot
do metaeducation.com/media/shared/rebmu/rebmu.rebol
rebmu/args [DnowJkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]] [J1 K2]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do metaeducation.com/media/shared/rebmu/rebmu.rebol rebmu/args [DnowJkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]] [J1 K2]
0:00:00.000015
 
It's not the weekend, so it works. :-)
I need to make an option to fake input from stdin
@RebolBot
do metaeducation.com/media/shared/rebmu/rebmu.rebol
rebmu/args/stats [DnowJkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]] [J1 K2]
 
Could include a do/args option for the rebmu script as well.
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do metaeducation.com/media/shared/rebmu/rebmu.rebol rebmu/args/stats [DnowJkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]] [J1 K2]
NOTE: Pass in Rebmu as string, not a block, to get official character count.
Rebmu as mushed Rebol block molds to: 26 characters.
Unmushed Rebmu molds to: 35 characters.
0:00:00.000015
 
4:49 PM
The args would either be straight Rebmu or a dialect that includes the script, args and options...
 
@RebolBot
do metaeducation.com/media/shared/rebmu/rebmu.rebol
rebmu/args/debug [DnowJkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]] [J1 K2]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do metaeducation.com/media/shared/rebmu/rebmu.rebol rebmu/args/debug [DnowJkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]] [J1 K2]
Executing:  [d: now j k il d/7 6 [p dt [ad j k]]]
0:00:00.000016
 
do/args %rebmu.rebol {DnowJkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]}
do/args %rebmu.rebol [{DnowJkILd/7 6 [pDT [adJk]]} [J1 K2] stats ...]
 
@rgchris CC ticket in existence for this, and proposal for how to work? It requires some context, and specifiying a filename or a URL is sort of loading the question... maybe a new thing is needed like using a not-currently-tolerated type. do <mushing.rebol> ?
 
@HostileFork Here's one: issue.cc/r3/1204
Well, almost...
 
5:02 PM
@rgchris Well I think it would be nice if there was a relative-path-oriented DO. Maybe TAG! is too clever and C #include-y, but off the cuff it seems interesting.
 
@HostileFork It'd be nice if it were relative to system/script/path by default and that system/script/path included URLs as per ticket 1204. Of course I haven't thought out all the implications to that...
 
@rgchris If you want to write something that works equally well locally and on the server, though, then should do %foo look on the local filesystem or consider it to be patched onto a URL? If a script is run from a network address, should it simply be assumed that you never mean to run a script on the local directory of the running interpreter?
 
@HostileFork Hm. A definite tradeoff here between intuition and pragmatism. In your case, you understandably expected 'do to be relative. But does that go for every relative file reference—if your remote script wants to save a file in your working directory?
Am conflicted.
The Needs header I believe is relative though...
 
Well, it certainly seems like a module system question, but then there is still the question of what's done by pieces of code that aren't part of that when they don't have complete paths.
 
5:24 PM
Needs isn't just for modules, it'll 'do a script before the current script.
 
5:44 PM
@rgchris, sorry I missed the window for working on Cheyenne/QM integration, I will try to find some spare time next weekend to do it.
 
@DocKimbel No worries, am consumed also—we'll get to it :)
 
@rgchris, for the Red site, my #1 issue is properly entering/formatting inlined Red code...it's a nightmare each time... When you'll have time to give a look at the site CSS, please have a look at that issue first.
 
@DocKimbel Will do.
 
@rgchris Thanks! :)
 
6:31 PM
@RebolBot do join %asd none
why?
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> join %asd none
== %asdnone
 
@RebolBot do join "asd" true ; doesnt make much sense either
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> join "asd" true
== "asdtrue"
 
@onetom I believe the logic is that if you join something with a string, you get it joined with the to string! conversion.
@RebolBot
print ["that extra spacing" prin {} "around things that return unset has annoyed me in Rebmu, when I try to use functions that return no values in mid-print to cause some side-effect"]
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print ["that extra spacing" prin "" {around things that return unset has annoyed me in Rebmu, when I try to use functions that return no values in mid-print to cause some side-effect}]
that extra spacing  around things that return unset has annoyed me in Rebmu, when I try to use functions that return no values in mid-print to cause some side-effect
 
6:46 PM
I would rather an unset not be considered a "space-causing" value.
 
6:58 PM
@HostileFork thanks. it makes more sense, although not totally practical.
@RebolBot
print type? first [#[none!]]
print type? first [#[none]]

print type? first [#[unset!]]
 
@onetom Please continue.
@onetom Please continue.
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> print type? first [none] print type? first [none] print type? first [unset!]
word!
word!
word!
 
how is that possible? im getting this locally:
>> print type? first [#[none!]]
none!
>> print type? first [#[none]]
none!
>> print type? first [#[unset]]
** Syntax error: invalid construction spec: [unset]

>> print type? first [#[unset!]]
unset!
 
7:34 PM
@onetom I'm guessing there's an intermediary step converting your literal types back to words.
@rebolbot
do {
print type? first [#[none!]]
print type? first [#[none]]

print type? first [#[unset!]]
}
 
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do {   print type? first [#[none!]]   print type? first [#[none]]      print type? first [#[unset!]]   }
none!
none!
unset!
; Brought to you by: tryrebol.esperconsultancy.nl
>> do {   print type? first [#[none!]]   print type? first [#[none]]      print type? first [#[unset!]]   }
none!
none!
unset!
 
@alesguzik The Rebol 3 modules I have on reb4.me are here: github.com/rgchris/Scripts
 
 
2 hours later…
9:40 PM
Two whole hours?
 
 
2 hours later…
11:47 PM
@YuShen Welcome to the Rebol and Red room. See our FAQ. Cool, you have a reputation score of 145 so chat away!
 
Just want to re-pick up Rebol. Please suggest Rebol 3 or Red now. Is Red ready to be used as a scripting language. Thanks,
 
@YuShen Red is still missing many key features although it is progressing at a rapid rate. Rebol 3 is much more feature complete (although there are still some features which are only available on Rebol 2). If you want to re-pick up the language then rebol 3 is the way to go at the moment. The most recent community builds are over at rebolsource.net
 
Thanks! I'll give it another try.
My modest attempt is to try to use Rebol as an alternative to Bash script, as I'm not proficient either of them.
 
@YuShen Rebol is still the more complete solution for the moment, although Rebol3 is basically just for console mode programming at the moment and is missing some things. We're here to support and answer questions you may have.
 
Any comment of my attempt?
John and all helped!
I meant thank you all for your help!
 
11:58 PM
@YuShen One of the most important bridges to unimplemented functionality is a good CALL implementation to be able to call out to the OS for things that haven't been implemented within the platform abstraction... and that is on the verge of being done better. There is a basic one now, but not as good as Rebol2's yet. Definitely worth a look though, and there is support here for questions if you hit a wall.
 

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