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18:00
@rlemon I can, for mysql, but not linux...
@Mr.Alien @rlemon does not only help with JavaScript, but can also help you with filing your taxes.
Does he do laundry?
@crypticツ ohh really? does he? ...
aaa this poor kid went to fast for an answer..
@Mr.Alien He has 21k rep.. o.0
yap..
18:03
@Mr.Alien IDs can start with a number in HTML5
FYI
anyways all make mistakes ... @BillyMathews
@rlemon yea, I have asked a question on that as well, though he has dupe ids
well yea dupe id's are still stupid
but I just read your comment.
@rlemon heresy!
18:09
@rlemon but why?? =o(
is there a help attribute on elements?
!!google html5 help attribute
@crypticツ why wouldn't I be allowed?
the restriction made no sense to begin with
!!> var 5stupidId = 2
@kwak "SyntaxError: identifier starts immediately after numeric literal"
18:11
thats really sucky thing, infact I don't like few points HTML5, they allow attribute values without quotes, this id thing
attribute values without quotes??
CSS, yes, HTML, no?!
@BillyMathews you can write something like <p class=thissucks>Hello</p>
No way?!
That does suck
but why?
22
Q: Do you quote HTML5 attributes?

ryanveAttribute quotes are optional in HTML5. What are the pros/cons to quoting them? id=example <!--quotes optional--> href=http://example.com <!--quotes optional--> class="example example-1" <!--quotes required due to space--> href="http://example.com/p=47" <!--quote...

wait what?
you are saying quoteless attributes are introduced in HTML5?
18:15
@rlemon yap, were invalid before
I think they did it so to make it easier for crap developers to port their crap unquoted HTML to HTML5
exactly, instead of making it stricter, they are making it worse and worse
they were not recommended, however afaik they were always valid
@mikedidthis, you seeing this?! ^
18:17
there are legit use cases for no quotes.
save bandwidth
think of a site like google that gets hit a few million times a second
@BillyMathews <tag id=1> =oP
18:18
@rlemon I don't think the doc was validated though...
then don't laugh. I've calculated it out before, 1char on the homepage saved was like 5gb a day
@BillyMathews seeing what? My dinner?
@Mr.Alien according to the w3c spec it should be valid
That is true.
18:18
are you sure it didn't warn on it ?
@rlemon and that's why google uses <font> tag..
yup
@mikedidthis This discussion.. you don't need quotes around attribute values
@rlemon XHTML fail, strict dtd fail, loose sucked anyways
google does a bunch of seemingly stupid things, until you think about how much bandwidth they chew through and most of these things are for that
18:19
@BillyMathews correct you don't. Also you don't need to wear a condom during sex...
2
@rlemon but they really matter, if you recollect few days back we had a discussion over this, even a single character matters there...
@mikedidthis ahahahaha
@mikedidthis Good comparison
@Mr.Alien yea, I was in the convo.
I know they matter.
@mikedidthis so what you are saying is... no quotes feels fantastic?
@rlemon it may feel fantastic now but in 9 months...
If Google really wanted to save on bandwidth <form><input name=q><input type=submit>
18:22
@mikedidthis cross that bridge when I get to it
@crypticツ if you use docs, kinda excel, they have defined so many attributes, they have arias defined for each action, not sure why as the docs are only accessible after authorization..
@rlemon already crossed it, its not an easy crossing :D
eh, I'll just pay someone to carry me over.
Also, what happens when you do this by mistake: <div class=classid=help></div>
i'm lazy
@mikedidthis what happens when you make any mistake in programming?
unexpected results happen. thats right. because you didn't do what you wanted to do.
don't blame the language for not understanding your fuck ups
3
18:24
it comes real dirty when you have something like <div class=class1 class2></div>
@rlemon blame the game?
and you endup with invalid attribute name
@Mr.Alien well you can't do that because of the space.
again, this all leads down to 'not understanding'
yea exactly, it fails...
Again, its preference.
18:25
just like introducing errors with == because you don't understand how type coercion works.
For the sake of clarity, I will stick with " "
@mikedidthis it's idiotic....
don't black list ==, just make sure people know how it functions before they use it
@Mr.Alien nah its preference.
@mikedidthis weeeeell... class equals classid, and classid equals help, so logically classid would equal help, but that's just how it works out in my mind.
18:26
@crypticツ worked out better than my attempt.
we are talking about quotes and no quotes, crap, we love fancy quotes class=”parent-element”
I wonder what will be the next doctype... <!DOCTYPE html6>
well according to whatwg, like CSS3, HTML5 is the 'last revision'
but it is a living standard, meaning modules will be upgraded but the 'standard' HTML5 is the last revision
meaning, there will be no HTML6
just enhancements on the HTML5 modules.
can only find a good link about css, not html :/
I have a feeling you are correct.
useless branding, they should've sticked with HTML & CSS...
> In more length: The term "HTML5" is widely used as a buzzword to refer to modern Web technologies, many of which (though by no means all) are developed at the WHATWG, in some cases in conjunction with the W3C and IETF.

> The WHATWG work on HTML is all published in one specification (the one you are reading right now)
18:35
you can't even distinguish if some or the other tags or css properties will be deprecated, like deprecated at what version?
from WHATWG
take a read at The Truth About HTML5
Hey mike
Hey billy
Could you help me with a tiny little css issue
seeing as you have the details for my site already
18:40
I can try
it's a z-index issue. I have pulled the first slide up and it's overlapping the header, and I can't sort it.
screenshot as i can't replicate it
I can give the section z-index: -1 but I feel like that really shit.
I don't want that section under everything, I just want the header over everything
what browser as I can't replicate it
Chrome
does the #top section have negative top margin?
you might need to clear your cache as I added it recently
18:45
#header {
position: relative;
z-index: 1;
}
Thanks
I totally forgot that it needs relative positioning to use z-index
I don't get why it shouldn't work on static elements
@BillyMathews won't make sense as you cannot move static element using top right bottom left
@Mr.Alien No, but they can still overlap, as I have just proven ^.^
using negative margins
or, potentially from overflow
I might want any overflowing text to go on top of the element below, for whatever reason
@BillyMathews you don't position elements that way.. margins aren't used for positioning stackoverflow.com/questions/20719109/…
18:52
+1, sorry using the margin to overlap is a nasty way to do things.
you can position elements that way
If margins aren't for positioning, what are they for?
Spacing
NO, and you shouldn't
Again its preference.
You are totally right, though, I'm not sure why I didn't use relative positioning
18:53
@mikedidthis thanks bro.... @BillyMathews next question will be why not padding instead of margin.... learn CSS Box Model
I use padding for a lot of my spacing, margin is more for aligning to a baseline / child elements
@mikedidthis not preference, but concept, positioning is a big concept, if you just get it right, you can treat the layout like a master...
The thing with CSS / HTML / JS. There are a lot of ways to achieve the same effect.
padding is counted inside the element when margin counts outside, so if you want fat menu items, you will need padding.. margins, well, to space up elements
I put my socks on before my boxers, you put your boxers on before your socks. We are both wearing underwear.
2
18:55
hehee
Who puts their socks on before their boxers though?
and the other one is me
Weirdo.
:P
:)
So at the same time, using negative margins is weird to me :D
18:56
Thanks, but I know how positioning and CSS box model
@mikedidthis I've seen many using margin: -300px;, margin: 500px; ... insane, the moment margin goes out of 50px I smell dirt
I'm just forgetful and short sighted XD
@BillyMathews nah, I wouldn't say that at all. Just remember to KISS.
@BillyMathews so you can no way debate on margins and positioning...
18:58
@BillyMathews its like position: absolute many misunderstand it, but its such a useful property.
I agree
What is browser compatibility like with absolute positioning? (If you know)
yea, many of them thinks its dirty to use, but infact I use that the most... they just don't like it cuz the miss to wrap that inside relative
@BillyMathews CSS was born with those, as far as I know
I don't understand why it gets so much bad press then
cuz people don't get it how that works, using position: absolute + nth gives me real power to design layouts
If I have multiple containers with each one a canvas, should I initially put a `<canvas class='canvas'></canvas>` inside and then fetch it
or more simply, create that canvas from js
19:02
@mikedidthis I would really love to work with position: sticky;
@Mr.Alien yeah its from the dawn of CSS. It works everywhere.
@kwak urm @rlemon maybe the best man to ask.
He does laundry, too!
@Mr.Alien I am still hurt from position: fixed.
@mikedidthis that's waste one for me, I end up using position: absolute by nudging the top value using JS onscroll, as using fixed kills the kitten if user scrolls horizontally...
@kwak doesn't make much of a difference tbh
the element has no meaning without js
if you tell me the higher level need maybe I can advise better
19:06
@Mr.Alien yep, I just don't use or simulate it :D
ok let me finish one version first
I shouldn't use fixed position?
@mikedidthis its good to use, kinda scrolltotop > 200px -> show an element else hide ;
@BillyMathews you can, again as mike says, it depends..
@BillyMathews feel free to use it. The second the page touches a mobile device. Cry.
19:12
What will happen.....?
I added to the list of shit I can't use in a design.
It doesn't work properly and renders differently on a wide range of devices.
its not about rendering, horizontal fixed positioning sucks...
!!google brad frost position fixed
Seems like she is sleeping ^^^
Fixed position in mobile browsers: bradfrostweb.com/blog/mobile/fixed-position
19:20
gonna take a look in a min..
my boss is rushing me to make some changes before he leaves
//me off to play games... nyt..~ ~
and now im being rushed to leave as the last guy wants to leave too.. Will read when I'm home
19:40
Fuck yeah! Phonegap is pretty sweet
Managed to get a rough prototype of my NodeJS app going
Very rough, but there's enough right now to satiate me and let me study
@SomeGuy good job!
 
2 hours later…
21:18
-1
Q: jQuery ajax, trouble keeping htm page inside div

Slev7nI'm retrieving a html page using jQuery get function and then append it to a div, every thing's fine, but when retrieved html page inside a div, redirects to another page (after few seconds), redirected page jumps out of a div and displays all over the document, like a normal html page. I WANT IT...

21:54
so.. not much happened since I left work 2 and a half hours ago
What, am I the life of the party?!
@SomeGuy My uncle was trying to get me into phoneGap.. what's it like?
height: 100% - 50px;
I wish
jsbin.com/afiMEWa/7 there flexbox
use calc().
for the layout?
No, for this: height: calc(100% - 50px);
oh great
!!mdn calc
When did calc() come around? Because I only found out about it the other day
Late 2011?
using flexbox with canvas, is shitty, canvas are expanded, but I can't get the mouse position accurately now
Sadly I haven't used flexbox. @Wes maybe able to help
It sounds intriguing.. I'm going to read into it now.
22:21
ok mike, I believe it's more a js problem, have to scale coordinates to the container width
ahh ok.
Got bored.. moving on..
with calc or flexbox?
yeah it boxes my head
22:32
I can't stop watching this
Hilarious
it's a comedy?, can't be real...
I'm not sure but I think it's real
oh well USA then :)
hmm the characters at the end looks russian
@BillyMathews you're trolling me, at the end there's an advert
For this website.. dozhivi.ru
and it has a picture of an actimel..
russian are crazy
22:39
Hahaha
russian driving videos are the worst
maybe related, the most smoking country: who.int/tobacco/surveillance/policy/country_profile/rus.pdf
there are no laws..
£2.35 billion?
Our government made £9.5 billion on tobacco tax alone in 2012.
lol @ the "smoke-free environments" table hahaha
Schools? Nope. Buses? Nope. Trains? Nope. Hospitals?! NOPE!
it's important
speaking of tobacco..
22:50
that makes me want to go in UK
23:18
looks up how many people are in england - Holy Fuck!
dayum, that is some figure.
Its scary when you look at the tax gained from smoking vs the money spent on stop smoking campaigns.
my lines are wiggly. fuck ms paint.
and I think we are getting a little packed together over here. I can't even imagine where you guys find space to even have a country-side
we have some, just no where near as much as you.
That is a pretty insane difference on a visual scale.
I feel like about 90% of our population works inside the capital
Just judging by the sardine-tin like tube carriages
I struggle with London. Its almost foreign.
23:33
lol, Ontario is bigger than your entire country :/
imagine how it feels going to a new province.
travelling from Ontario to BC takes days.
It took me 12 hours to ride up to Newcastle which is about 50% of the length of the entire country
You came from London right? :D
Getting past Birmingham is a chore in itself
from where I am to Vancouver BC
> Drive via Trans-Canada Hwy · 4,513 km 48 h
48 straight. :/
23:38
@rlemon I went to Spain in less than that on a bus.
iirc thats 4/5 countries. I may have slept through one.
lol
as someone who lives in all of this space but not in a rural area.. I can't imagine how such small countries handle all of the people
given images like the one above.
go vertical.
Literally
The building next to my office is being knocked down to make way for a new, undoubtedly tall one
23:41
!!google toronto apartment buildings
we have them as well.
Which makes for a great atmosphere
23:42
@rlemon private?
condos
ours a goverment built. Called council flats / houses.
in my city ^
@rlemon I mean, do the government build / give you / rent you one of them?
23:43
no they are owned by property management groups or private owners
^^This is the window next to my desk
you apply, but if you don't have shit credit you will get in (if there is something available)
^These are all council flats, in Roehampton
about 5 mins for me
and I believe it is the biggest estate in europe
that's not all of it
council flats aren't new builds / private. They are these estates the government built to house our growing population.
Toronto is full of that kinda crap
23:46
free housing
but all nestled into the core, the GTA is a crap shoot
downtown Toronto
I gotta say, I love the view of London
picture is 6/7 years old now (Kitchener, down town)
lots has expanded in that time (we've got a lot more buildings down town because of tech companies coming here after RIM took off)

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