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15:09
When there are only 3 candidates then there is no need to make all 3 preferences, right?
wdym
preferences as in your ranked choices?
IIRC, you never have to cast all three preferences. But, if you don't, and your 1st/2nd candidate is eliminated, your vote won't be transferred - just cast into the void.
either the first preference is elected or not
correct, but don't we get to rank everyone we want to now?
15:12
there is no third choice
or did i misunderstand something
maybe for technical reasons it is easier to allow it
in a race between 3 candidates, your third choice would never be used
I think what Dharman is talking about is that there will be no transfer of votes with only 3 candidates. The one with the least votes goes and the other two get their di'mondz.
exactly
Zoe
Zoe
15:13
@KevinB unless the first or second choice gets knocked out first
not with only 3 candidates
if your first gets knocked out first, you get the 2nd
if the second gets knocked out, you get the first
No. You only have one vote.
Zoe
Zoe
oh yeah, right
and 3rd never happens because there's no scenario where your 3rd candidate would be an option without 2nd or 1st
15:15
If here are 4 candidates and your first preference goes, then (I think), your second preference is used in the next round of counting. Sometimes.
Consider this
1. I select Dharman as my first choice
2. Dharman is not elected
3. Zoe and Ryan get elected
4. No vote transfer happens.
Maybe it gets transferred to the next election?
But, with only 3 candidates, there is also no need for the second preference, is not?
right, the first round knocks out the 3rd candidate, leaving the 2 winners
Unless there's a tie? What happens then?
yes, so with 3 candidates there is Single non-transferable vote
15:17
hmm
if there's too close of a margin for 2nd and 3rd, in a 3 person vote for 2 candidates,
If Dharman wins first place, flat out, and Zoe and Ryan get the same number of 1st prefs, are the second prefs that were Dharman as 1st used to resolve the tie?
i mean, i can think of a way to handle that situation, i'm just not sure if that's part of the algorithm
... can't be, though, because that would give such voters two votes that have been counted.
if you have a clear first place, you can omit them to get 2nd
yea
that
@AdrianMole kind of, the overflow is distributed
15:20
Do we have psephologist in the house?
Zoe
Zoe
@AdrianMole probably, but the odds of that happening with the number of voters are extremely low
I'm a computer programmer. Extremely low probability events (like me getting a pay raise) are my field of expertise. :)
Zoe
Zoe
As long as it doesn't go by the alphabet in an edge-case like that, I'm happy :P
Rumour has it that, in the FIFA world cup final, if a match is still drawn after a certain number of penalty shoot-outs, the winner is decided by a coin flip.
But, here on the Stack, it's more likely that all 3 candidates would be offered the jewellery.
@AdrianMole I wish I could explain STV vote in detail but... it's kinda complex
As much as I understand, it would (in a tie) look at percentages of secondary votes
15:26
@AdrianMole Heh, I recently spent hours on meetings and clarification of requirements about how to handle what's basically an edge case that would be way, way less than 1% of the total real-life cases when the application would do something. It basically shouldn't happen but there is no concrete thing that forbids it.
@Machavity That's not helpful at all. Are the Chocolate Chip cookies Republican or Democrat?
TIL there's a Northern Ireland STV system. It probably uses sheleighleighs to resolve ties
The NI system is so complex that not even the implementers know how it works. But I think that's the point.
@AdrianMole They're probably Libertarian
15:32
I'm sorry to say this, but... The election is in the nomination phase, and currently there are 3 candidates. I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
Don't be sorry. It's what you live for ;)
Zoe
Zoe
@ElectionBot Oh no, how terrible!
Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into!
@Machavity shillelagh :-)
@TylerH Dang Googles making me look dumb again shakes fist
15:39
I only know how to spell it because of D&D
Can't watch for a while as I'm in an online training course and recording my screen + system audio :-(
16:08
@Machavity Also gazebos
who are the current mods
The current 24 moderators are: Aaron Hall, Andy, Baum mit Augen, Bhargav Rao, Bohemian, BoltClock, Brad Larson, ChrisF, Cody Gray, deceze, Flexo, Jean-François Fabre, Jon Clements, josliber, Machavity, Makyen, Martijn Pieters, meagar, Michael Myers, Rob, Ry-, Samuel Liew, Tim Post, Undo
Who are the future mods
The election is not over yet. Stay tuned for the winners!
Ah, it did recognise it!
16:39
Who is the best mod?
Samuel Liew is the best mod!!!
Who is the second best mod?
17:04
@Scratte I'll be last ...
@rene Why are you trying to make me sad?
If my chatter makes you sad then we have a huge problem
Wait.. you're a bot now? :D
You know diamonds look pretty on flowers too :)
@Scratte Did you not notice before?
@VLAZ Nobody expects a flowery bot.
17:40
Nobody expects the Danish blurry position
Zoe
Zoe
Nobody expects the Danish archer
Sterling is running this year?
That joke went straight over your head and into the wall :p
No apples?
Zoe
Zoe
@Nick At least you got it :p
17:52
As the bot would say ... Time, Will Tell!
I would not.
@CodyGray ok sir
And now for something completely different - The election is in the nomination phase, and currently there are 3 candidates. I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
If an election is declared, and nobody nominates, does it play a sad trombone sound for community managers?
18:09
No. The only places with audio cues are in chat.
Just keep pinging those community managers.. ?
I actually got fewer chat pings after being hired than I did before.
Though, that's not really particularly surprising. When I was a user, I was in chat all day. Now I have to do actual work occasionally. ;)
That's because you claim that you don't bite.. ;)
18:33
@Catija if you want more chat pings, we can indulge you :)
Heh. I'm sure you can.
18:50
@VLAZ LOL!
@VLAZ 0.1 cent for every 1 rep. An amazing deal. Almost 2000 dollars. ;)
@KevinM.Mansour It's 20 dollars. Unless you're Verizon
Don't worry. dots a confusing..
Not sure if I understand.
0.1 cent per rep for 20 000 rep is 20000 * 0.1 = 2000 cents. And that's 2000 / 100 = 20 dollars.
There was a somewhat famous case where Verizon had a rate of 0.002 cents charge but then actually billed 0.002 dollars thus inflating the total by 100. One person documented that at "verizonmath.com".
19:06
I think the missing link is that 1 dollar is 100 cents.
LOL!.. That name :)
If you feel your blood pressure is too low, you can also listen to the recording of the poor guy trying to explain maths over the phone to the Verizon representatives.
19:46
@VLAZ I've the listened for the whole call. Pretty complicated for them. Is there a difference between 1 dollar and 1 cent, "Definitely". Half dollar and half cent, "Definitely". 0.02 dollars and 0.02 cents, "No".
i mean
I actually never thought of the difference between 0.1 cent and 0.1 dollar.
i just wanted to say best of luck to @Dharman
@KevinB You mean what?
right? like, it's really easy to see .1 cents and assume it's 10 cents
because it's very rare to see US currency presented in that way
19:49
thanks
you don't say .50 dollars
@KevinB I agree it's easy. But it's also easy to see why that's wrong when somebody points it out.
you say 50 cents
@KevinB Yeah. Quite complicated but that guy explained it quite well.
but you present it as 0.5
19:53
Hello and welcome to the election night special! The election is in the nomination phase, and currently there are 3 candidates. I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
@ElectionBot Is there an open bar tonight?
What we've got here is failure to communicate.
@ElectionBot help
Examples of election FAQs I can help with:
- what is an election
- how to nominate myself
- how to vote
- who should I vote for
- how is candidate score calculated
- what is my candidate score
- what are the moderation/participation/editing badges
- what is the election status
- when is the election starting/ending
- when is the next phase
- how many positions are elected
- who are the candidates
- who are the current mods
@ElectionBot who are current mods
19:54
May the Force be with you.
who are the current mods
fail
The current 24 moderators are: Aaron Hall, Andy, Baum mit Augen, Bhargav Rao, Bohemian, BoltClock, Brad Larson, ChrisF, Cody Gray, deceze, Flexo, Jean-François Fabre, Jon Clements, josliber, Machavity, Makyen, Martijn Pieters, meagar, Michael Myers, Rob, Ry-, Samuel Liew, Tim Post, Undo
@Good There's a missing "the".
oh
nice
this site has been here for less than 24years right?
19:56
yes
so do elections happen twice a year?
What does that have to do with it?
Elections happen when they happen.
they are not on a timeline
ok cool
also not always 1 position, like this election is looking to select 2
19:57
@Good Once a year but I'm not sure about 2011.
@KevinB oooooh
who are the candidates
Currently there are 3 candidates: Zoe, Ryan M, Dharman
We've had two in the same year before... at least twice that I can think of, I think.
2011 and 2015, it looks like.
20:02
Why are there no more nominations?
There are so many users who would be good moderators
@Dharman Ping them. ;)
We have a new nomination! Please welcome our latest candidate Shree!
18
That's... Convenient timing.
@Dharman well, you got your wish :)
@Dharman They might take some time to write their questioner answers, I think.
20:06
ok, let me repeat
Why are there no more nominations?
come on, another one
who are you expecting to nominate themselves?
wish-granting has a cooldown period, give it some time :( We should probably update the rate-limiting guide
3
sadly this time your wish didnt work
Why not ?
is the min rating 3k?
20:08
@Shree Welcome to the club and I wish you do well :)
Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into!
@Shree Best of luck!
@Good yes
also requires a badge
@Spevacus Thanks.
20:10
what are the required badges? cc @Good
The 4 required badges to nominate yourself are: Civic Duty, Convention, Deputy, Strunk & White. You'll also need 3000 reputation.
oh, 4 badges
hmm
btw, if SE ever decides to shut down elections, they can just make Sportsmanship the required one :)
@Dharman Thanks and best of luck. I never forgot your motto delete every thing :)
20:15
A quick message from my sponsors: The election is in the nomination phase, and currently there are 4 candidates. I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
@Shree In your response to question 7 "efforts at answering rather than genuine responses." do you mean asking a question instead of answering?
@OlegValter Heh, I actually have it. But it seems quite rare: "Awarded 3114 times."
@JeanneDark Nop, you know better what I mean :)
Shree, you have 20k+
4
:)
20:23
to be clear, I didn't get to read even your latest answer before someone else gave you an upvote
@Dharman He got an upvote from 2 minutes.
why did the code golf message got removed?
Because we don't talk about code golf here
The first rule about code golf is...
5
:-)
20:26
@VLAZ you know what to do, right? :)
How often do the blue "Candidate Score" cards get updated? Shree's still shows 19k and 37/40.
what is the candidate score of 965146?
@OlegValter The candidate score for user Shree is 38 (out of 40). The user is missing these badges: Investor, Sportsmanship.
I love the brevity "I am Shree nothing more or less."
@AdrianMole ha, bot's quicker to update the cards than native features!
20:28
again, missing sportsmanship
Hmm. Investor and Sports ... he needs to buy some clubs to play Code Golf?
4
Investor is just that offering a bounty, right?
@Dharman "I am Shree. Hear me moderate!"
@BhargavRao ... on someone else's question, IIRC.
Yeah, should be a simple badge then ;p
20:30
@BhargavRao On a question you don't own
i mean you gotta give it to a question that deservers it, not just random
Sportsmanship isn't that hard either, if you've got a lot of answers
Takes a few days (100 votes) if you haven't even got part way.
i definitely opened a bounty just to get that badge
20:31
What's the Silver version called?
@KevinB lol
actually
no
I dont have that much reputation to throw on a bounty
the only bounty i offered that wasn't on my own question, was on a question asking something i needed
Didn't realize Copy Editor was so rare.
20:32
OK - My bad: Sportsmanship is silver.
@ouflak Yes, it seems weird.
what is my candidate score
@KevinB Your candidate score is 36 (out of 40). You are missing these badges: Copy Editor, Marshal, Refiner, Steward. Perhaps consider nominating in the election?
what is my candidate score
@Good You are not eligible to nominate yourself in the election as you do not have at least 3000 reputation. You are also missing the required badges: Civic Duty, Convention, Deputy, Strunk & White. Your candidate score is 2 (out of 40).
20:34
lets goo 2/40
I offered a bounty on a question I actually was looking for an answer to (and I had already posted an answer on it, so the minimum was raised). I think that was the last feather in my Candidate Cap ...
@Good I'd vote for a Good moderator :P
@ElectionBot what's my score
@AdrianMole Wow! You have a maximum candidate score of 40! Please consider nominating yourself in the election!
don't think i'll get refiner. the rest will come with time
20:35
@ElectionBot Only if you promise to shut up.
Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into!
Is a 40 candidate score all it takes to be encouraged to nominate? By that bar they'd let in a lot of rif-raf.
no, i was encouraged with 36
@VLAZ i am glad my name isnt bad
Heh- Shree's Blue Card has been updated.
20:37
gtg guys nice talking. bye!
@ElectionBot What is the candidate score for user 965146
@IanCampbell The candidate score for user Ian Campbell is 40 (out of 40).
That's not what I asked.
ok... Here we go, repeat after me :)
20:40
@ElectionBot Please answer a random question.
16 hours ago, by Oleg Valter
@DanielWiddis I hate to sound like a broken record, but: the command is quite API-heavy (when it comes to requesting scores for other users because the bot normalizes the user id by getting the correct account from the list of their accounts) so it makes sense to keep it restricted to privileged users. It might be a good idea to introduce caching for account ids, though, then I suppose it can be revisited
reticulating splines
@OlegValter So what you're saying is.... RTFM?
who are privileged users
what is the candidate score for 965146?
20:41
@OlegValter The candidate score for user Shree is 38 (out of 40). The user is missing these badges: Investor, Sportsmanship.
15 hours ago, by Oleg Valter
RTFM :)
I know your thoughts.
@IanCampbell :)
No excuse for me, you kindly provided the manual for me yesterday (or Tuesday?).
I am starting to think it is a good idea to add it to a list of commonly asked questions, though
or that maybe we should prepend a "you can't request the score of others unless privileged"
20:43
Sort of related, but seems like nowadays the F is pretty much always used. I used to see RTM often in the past (like 15-ish years ago) but seems to have died down.
just remove the command
ez
Or we could just hammer the star board with such an announcement
i can't see anything past the two pinned messages in the starboard
@KevinB Make the bot respond with "RTFM" to the command, when used by an unprivileged user.
I like the idea :)
20:48
Welcome to the election chat room! The election is in the nomination phase, and currently there are 4 candidates. I can answer commonly-asked questions about elections (type @ElectionBot help for more info).
@AdrianMole I agree that Texan is not English (I used to live there, so I can say that).
Is it bad that I dream of the time we had double digit mod candidates and had to have a Primary... even though I don't actually like the primary system.
Why is it that we don't anymore
Was there a sudden "cut off" point at some election? (After the shenanigans, maybe?)
Many of them have or have had diamonds now?
20:50
This is only the second that I've been around to make fun of enjoy participating in.
It was slowly dropping but I think that we have had fewer than 10 since Shog stopped running them, so it's clearly my fault.
Talking of which - when will Shog nominate? It just doesn't seem right, seeing his name with no diamond.
He won't.
He's never been a mod and I don't think he wants to be.
I thought not.
@AdrianMole He explicitly said he wouldn't do that because it would be awkward to the Community team
20:53
Meh. I wouldn't find it awkward but I guess I'm not the only member of the team, either. :P
@Machavity I vaguely remember someone hinting at that, last time around. Although staff have said (in a Meta.SE post) that they wouldn't stop him.
@VLAZ Surely, that was "Release To Manufacturing"? I've almost never seen "read the manual" without the F...
OK, so do a poll of the workplace, then show Shog. Problem solved.
there would be more participants if users understood why they should dedicate their effort even more - this is the core issue, @Catija. Solve this, and you will have elections booming with candidates
... or offer payment? ;-P
20:54
@Machavity Is it awkward that Tim is a mod? Not sure I see the difference.
I'm not going to pester him to run as a candidate on a site run by a company that treated him that way after so many years of hard work and strain.
10
are moderators paid?
Elected ♦ moderators is an entirely voluntary role, and they are not paid by Stack Exchange.
If the salary was $500,000 USD a year, I'd nominate.
Tim was a mod before being staff, though. And he left voluntarily.
20:55
@CodyGray Tim wasn't fired. Nor did he set tons of policy
@IanCampbell jeez you are cheap
$2 billion for SO though, yes?
I am cheap.
@CodyGray Dunno, perhaps it was the corners of the web I went around where it was used as "read the manual". Granted, not often but it was still at least on part with RTFM.
So we must be worth something.
20:55
@Machavity He also had being a mod again should he ever quit as a stipulation on his hiring.
@Machavity The former, I can agree with. I'm not sure about the latter. Tim was in more of a director-level position, at least towards the end, and even before, definitely was involved in policy-setting. He was less of a prolific writer on Meta sites, if that's what you mean, but... If being a prolific writer on Meta is awkward... I have a problem... :-)
Wow, forward thinking. Great example of always needing to think about the golden diamond parachute.
@VLAZ Nickelodeon.com?
@Catija Oh, wow.
@CodyGray Heh
@OlegValter Some sites have done things like having a Meta post that was, essentially "What is a day in the life of a mod" or "What's moderation really like" that sort of thing... to kinda demystify it and also show people that it's maybe not as scary/hard as they imagine. That said, being a mod on SO is hard, so I'm guessing that here people are more likely to underestimate it. :P
20:58
Haha, yeah, I think people underestimate it way more often than they overestimate it
That said, I don't think it would be terrible to help people see that being a mod is ... not altogether terrible?
Biggest problem is new-ish users who just don't know how to estimate it, up or down, and they end up thinking that people become mods for the "power" or whatever. Which is completely untrue.
There are many, many great contributors to the site (we all come across a section of them in the specific tags we follow), who do a huge amount of curation but have never run as moderator candidates.
@Catija I also think the current functioning of the candidate score might be a barrier to some users who don't have high-thirties scores, especially in a more contested race. If there were a dozen candidates, I wouldn't expect enough people to read what I wrote instead of looking and seeing that 32 is less than 38-39.
In a four-person race...well, I'm hopeful :-)
@CodyGray We know that mods are in it to just suppress new users.
20:59
@CodyGray I think there have been some who wanted to run ... for the diamond... like... as silly as it may sound, being a moderator on SO seems like something someone could brag about in certain circles.

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