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18:32
@Simon you would run your test electron app from a terminal (like git bash) but electron doesn't give you a terminal
I thought that might be the case. Hmm seems a bit inconvenient
Then again it's easy to make a GUI in Electron so why bother with a terminal.
A funny thing is that Windows has a really crap built in terminal so I have to install git bash just so I can work but A big part of Ubuntu is the terminal so on ubuntu I don't even have to install a different terminal, the built in one is quite good
I don't understand what you mean with why bother with a terminal, Electron is basically just
sticking a web page in a browser (and a few other things but that's the main one)
Built on Chrome or something
why bother with a GUI when you can do everything from a terminal?
2
I almost tried with Electron before I realized the executable are gigantic and I gave up with it.
18:40
most GUIs are clunky, hard to use, unresponsive and hard to debug
It's almost as if only a crappy company like Microsoft would make one :thinking:
I really don't understand
I'm putting on a Windows user :P
Electron is not for making GUI's
electron is for eating up your ram
Why so negitave toward Electron guys?
Its only 50 MB
but you can do some pretty cool stuff with it
18:42
you meant negative, but do you really want to know why? because we'll be here for hours if I go through the reasons
and no, you can do even cooler stuff without electron
So how would you go about building a program that can work with all 3 platforms without duplicating the code?
here's where your argument falls apart, where the strict assumption of not duplicating the code exists
because in most cases, maintaining cross-platform support with electron is just as much work as having multiple codebases
so you would write 3 separate copies of code?
Why wouldn't you? It's worked before, during, and after electron's existence.
In most cases yeah, but not with electron
Plus its way faster to build it with electron since your basically just writing HTML and electron sticks it in a window for you
18:53
Sorry I just disappeared. I was having dinner (6:53 PM here)
@Mike In C standards 50Mb is HUGE. Compared to 1MB if built with platform dependent tools
Probably someone competent in C could do the equivalent in under 500kb
Wow
that's tiny
Yep, then there is ram space. My machine crashed running an electron app.
strange, It never crashed for me
You are not using what I am
but if you think about it 50 mb isn't alot to download just alot compared to other things
18:59
You will find you have limited capabilities compared to a language like Perl/Python/C/Java/Rust ect as well.
Yeah I have a friend that does C and he can do crazy stuff
but Electron was the easiest thing to use for what I'm (was) working on
Data analysis, speech recognition I doubt Electron can do those.
Also using a terminal means the possibility of executable 2kb in size (C/ASM). Python executable are quite large, 10-15mb but still quite smaller than electron.
Yep it's easy but not that powerful for some things
When your working on electron you can just launch it from the terminal without creating a installer or compiling it but when you need to make a .exe for other people then its 50 mb
also when you say speech recognition do you mean detecting who said it or detecting what they said?
Yep but ohboy some high level languages can do a lot.
50mb is a lot smaller than I thought it was actually.
I'm still young, haven't really looked into much languages aside from php, js and node js
19:08
>1MB if built with platform dependent tools
that's... huge
you could pack a few game engines in 1MB
I guess
Also it is possible to build HTML apps on Windows without Electron.
@Unihedron Sorry.
Really?
how?
Just a second. Just preparing a demo.
That's cool
19:17
A Windows thing called an HTML Application or HTA en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_Application
It's built in running off one of the browsers, Edge or IE not quite sure.
I never use this because it's not cross platform in any way, and they have their own weird form of JavaScript.
Ah bad code that should be
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<HTA:APPLICATION ID="HelloExample"
   BORDER="thick"
   BORDERSTYLE="complex"/>
<TITLE>HTA - Hello World</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<H2>HTA - Hello World</H2>
</BODY>
</HTML>
I'm pretty sure a build-specific renderer is used, but it's neither edge or IE
just like when you're in ubuntu the help pages render html, but it doesn't load a browser
well, it's windows, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did load a browser (ffs lol)
The HTA engine (mshta.exe) is dependent on Internet Explorer. Starting from Windows Vista, a user can remove Internet Explorer from Windows, which will cause the HTA engine to stop working.
Check the link I game Mike.
wikipedia?
wikipedia also says that the holocaust isn't real
If it says it runs off the browser I certainly believe it. On Windows nothing surprises me.
Currently I am reading the battery level in Python. Windows has the lovely Win32api. Linux it's just a file :/
speak for yourself
I'm often surprised by windows, i.e. the fact that it even works
19:30
I can't say I like Windows I'm stuck with it at the moment.
hiding your masochism with innocence? well, fine
OK. I love Windows I start up my machine and I am greeted by 6 fatal error messages, it takes ~2 mins to turn the thing on, I open Chrome I get another error message then I wait another while for it to load, then you tell me I enjoy this. Very likely story.
19:48
Windows is a giant slug, daily I have some issue with some unfriendly, undocumented, heap of trash that they call an api. Their compiler is paid and what I did (that was 7 years old) try of their "products" takes 5 mins a go to write a file, before I realized there is an obscure distinction of C and C++ , where I am supposed to start renaming files and following special instructions if I want to compile C.
...
use g++?
There is no distinction of g++ and gcc, rename the file and hope for the best stackoverflow.com/questions/20821416/…
This is decided by VS
oh
yeah I keep forgetting that windows actually treat file names as "file types"
Lucky you. I can't. All my tools are open source MinGW, Python I will never touch what what they call a "programming language" last I heard it took 10 years for them to fix a bug in their latest set of compilers.
And now I'm getting a message popping up saying Edge is faster than Chrome and Firefox. Half of what works on Chrome and Firefox won't on theirs
* previous set of compilers
and you're still paying for windows? :thinking:
19:59
No it came preinstalled on my PC and they updated it to Windows 10 last year.
As I said my favorite tools are open source. I have never paid for anything by Microsoft nor will I ever.
well, windows machines requires a windows license to run
5 mins ago, by Simon
No it came preinstalled on my PC and they updated it to Windows 10 last year.
probably an illegal copy which is good
Windows is fine. Occasionally annoying, but oh well
you misspelt "always"
20:07
uni tone your uniness down to 5
do it yourself
@JacobGray What do you program?
WELL YOU'RE NOT WRONG
But I generally work with web dev(html, css, js, php, whatnot), then sometimes other stuff
Yeah web-dev the only thing that is possible on Windows.
20:09
not true xD
Try a hello world in assembly on Windows. Then try it on Linux, see which one you find easier.
isn't assembly based on your architecture, not system?
asm x86 is vastly different to asm4004 for example
Yes but just running Windows also makes a huge difference. Because of what it gets linked to.
The same could be said for C# and the like. Just because developing it with linux is harder than on windows doesn't mean linux is super limited
@JacobGray Agreed C# not that terrible. What they want you to develop it with is. VS once again
20:20
@JacobGray agreed, both assembly and C# are impractical
C# is better than java :P
please stop with that java argument, everything is better than java
java should had died years ago back when applets were botched
"object-oriented" programming is a mistake
OH LOOK SAM IS NOT DEAD
ayyo
TPC reunion
just need fox now
Sam
Sam
I didn't realise this room was still a thing. lol
Thought it died ages ago.
20:22
SO tavern did
Sam
Sam
Yeah, I remember that :(
rlemon still lives there though
I have tavern bookmarked still and when that once in a blue moon when I want to join a SO chat I see him lurking there
Sam
Sam
lol
he's in quite a few frozen rooms I used to regular in, actually
also JamExchange :0
Wow
This is almost like a reuniting of the old crew.
2
20:25
except fox is still missing
yeah, and a few more
haven't heard anything of him within the last year, I'd say
Sam
Sam
Same
"a few more"
tfw you can't remember any of the few more
Sam
Sam
I think he dropped the odd message in discord.
last message from fox is last december when I made him code golf with me :thinking:
Sam
Sam
20:28
oh o_o
on discord
there is e.g. michaelpri
oh yeah jack and michael
rishav
jack as you said
rishav moved to his own room tho
20:32
which died
well, so did this one
peeking at the list of owners Gabriel, bjb, Ahmad (why does he have specific write perms?)
also it isn't dead as long as it is not frozen
it will eventually be frozen at this rate
remember when this room was active for at least six hours every day and when I put out the advent of code announcement it would just fly by because everyone was too busy chatting to care? now that announcement literally stays as the "last message" for months
I disagree about Java. Because of Android it's vital.
android runs on c and c++
the UI and API are written in java, but that's their mistake
20:51
If you hate it so badly why are you in the Java room. And why are you answering Java questions?
because I own the room
So? 8 other people do as well.
Just because you disagree with something it does not mean that it is wrong/incorrect.
Just because I think something is wrong or incorrect doesn't mean it is wrong or incorrect, either
yet you're confidently asserting it
21:04
Am I?
Where?
21:24
I guess I am.
I think my darker self is active today.
 
2 hours later…
23:23
I took a trip to the SO Tavern and rlemon was there, I guess he must have really enjoyed himself.
Once when the room was active.
23:38
hi
Hello.
@Simon the irony is that out of all the rooms I own, the only room that I care the least about is still active
:(
in case you're confused, I meant java, not this
I don't consider this active
23:49
@Unihedron Yeah I was not sure.
True it is debatable if this room is really alive.
active not alive ;D
whether it's alive is debatable, whether it's active is... kinda obvious...

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