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12:00 AM
@ZoestandswithUkraine Is it a conspiracy theory if it's an extremely obvious and predictable result? I don't honestly see how that could not be the case.
 
@RyanM Because the real question is whether or not they knew
It's only a conspiracy theory if it's intentional, and knowing stack, the line between conspiracy and just plain negligence is thinner than the announcement
(and calling it negligence is just the nice way to put it)
 
Oh. I'm gonna Hanlon's razor that one; misuse of statistics in A/B testing is almost as popular as A/B testing.
 
yes, but that doesn't describe whether the misuse is intentional or not
If it's intentional, I guarantee you it's to please the shareholders. But it could not be
 
I can't imagine shareholders caring about CTR on a random module (waaaayyyy too in-the-weeds), but I could see caring about the resulting increased pageviews.
In some sense, it's a useful result: people are using the thing that they're intended to use, when they probably weren't seeing it before.
The problem is that that's probably not improving their experience because the suggestions are bad.
And honestly even with better metrics that's going to be hard to capture.
The only way they could capture that is if the suggestions are so bad that it makes no difference in the metrics, which...honestly, that's possible; they're pretty bad.
(or if they're so bad that they drive users away from the site, which could also be captured as a metric, but that seems unlikely)
 
@RyanM Yeah, and that's the consequence they can present
Because more pageviews means more ad revenue, and shareholders eat that in less time than it takes to blink half way
 
1:08 AM
@TylerH they tried to move to MIT, but decided not to
-338
Q: A New Code License: The MIT, this time with Attribution Required

samthebrand Update: January 15, 2016 Thank you for your patience and feedback. The changes proposed here have been delayed indefinitely - we'll be back later to open some more discussions. Important context for those arriving from reddit and slashdot links: The status quo is not "public domain"; attribut...

 
@ZoestandswithUkraine migration complete
Also means the power cable is much more fixed, so there should be less downtime in general
Setting up wifi in the CLI is also so annoying
And hopefully, my wifi doesn't go down for 6 hours again... It apparently died last night
I don't understand why, but my ISP is not great
Also not the first time I've been disconnected at 2
 
 
2 hours later…
2:56 AM
0
Q: Clicking on Inbox icon pops us unwanted window showing code

JasonI noticed that when I click on the inbox icon at the top right side of the site, then it opens up a small window showing some code. For reference I am attaching a gif.

 
 
 
5 hours later…
8:08 AM
0
Q: Is "Next badge" feature not working as expected?

Giorgi TsiklauriI've noticed that I have more than needed points for a certain badge, but it's still not acquired. And if I click the gear icon, it shows this: So, looks like it's been acquired, but not acquired? or am I getting something wrong? :)

 
 
1 hour later…
9:32 AM
0
Q: Should moderators be deleting seemingly valid answers without comment? Isn't this harmful rather than helpful?

Paul WheelerI'm specifically asking in relation to this question: Safari is not showing the top 1 pixel of the webpage? and the two answers that have been posted by low reputation users and deleted without comment: https://stackoverflow.com/a/75801544/229247 https://stackoverflow.com/a/75813010/229247 I ha...

 
10:08 AM
1
Q: Can you prevent users from using same content in ask question wizard?

Elikill58Some users are using the question wizard like this: Which lead of question like that: I saw multiple times question with this type of content, the same thing repeated. Few times, the title is a little different. Is that possible to add a check for this that will result in a warn that ask for ed...

 
 
1 hour later…
11:32 AM
0
Q: Array of arrays

Saurabh Singh Sengar And wanted to Pass Data like this [[0, 0, 10], [0, 1, 19], [0, 2, 8], [0, 3, 24], [0, 4, 67], [1, 0, 92], [1, 1, 58], [1, 2, 78], [1, 3, 117], [1, 4, 48], [2, 0, 35], [2, 1, 15], [2, 2, 123], [2, 3, 64], [2, 4, 52], [3, 0, 72], [3, 1, 132], [3, 2, 114], [3, 3, 19], [3, 4, 16], [4, 0, 38], [4, 1,...

 
12:26 PM
0
Q: How to connect my public SO account with my SO for teams of my company?

GulzarOur company just opted in for SO for teams. I would like to connect my personal account with that account, just like the SE network, or something similar. Is that possible? Couldn't find that answer on Google.

 
1:15 PM
@AndrewT. Ahh thanks, yeah I was thinking that got implemented back in the day
 
1:38 PM
-2
Q: Android studio Electric Eel cannot show download gradle failed detail

FuBao NieIn the past version, when project initial to download gradle, if the step failed, it will show failed with the download url in build sheet. but AS Electric Eel only show Failed without any other words, does someone know how to configure to show the detail just like before?

 
@ZoestandswithUkraine well, the good thing is you can probably rule out 'maintenance down the street' if it's happening at 2AM
 
0
Q: Comment rendering bug with inline code

stackprotectorI just encountered this beauty: Looks like inline code does not get rendered properly in the comments by not breaking succeeding spaces or some sort of escaping problem.

 
The first time was a security policy update. It factory reset the router
That wasn't the case yesterday
 
 
2 hours later…
4:02 PM
0
Q: Improving how we report updates and receive feedback on the Content Discovery initiative

RosieBackground As part of our Content Discovery initiative, we've undertaken several experiments on Stack Overflow, and have several more planned. For each of those experiments, we’ve created a post here on meta that discusses the experiment and links back to the initiative. While this simplifies thi...

 
4:26 PM
The newest experiment that didn't even get a meta post was also measured exclusively by CTR
I can't imagine why its graduation would be received negatively /s
Assuming it does graduate, but if they moved it to a similar area as "related", they probably saw a sufficient CTR increase to justify it. I have no insider info on this, by the way. I wasn't aware that experiment existed until just now
 
i did mention it here when it happened, but, it was such a nothingburger that there was no discussion
 
4:41 PM
@NewPosts i don't quite understand the purpose of this post?
> we're doing stuff and things because we interpreted "discoverability" to mean... increased ctr on related questions and similar modules
is about all i get from it
the original post already had a list of meta questions where feedback was being collected,
(minus the one experiment that had no post)
 
5:00 PM
We're having a chat with the team on how to do it effectively, but basically the goal is to have one post that can be more rapidly updated for smaller changes without flooding MSO with featured posts for every little thing.
The current title will be changed as updates are made to call out that there's something new.
 
But we don't even have a flood of announcements on meta. It was yet another zero information rollout, which prompted user feedback which then prompted staff announcement.
 
Eh
The plan to make an announcement was there in advance
 
I think the goal of this post is to use this post to make said announcements in a more lightweight manner.
 
Yeah. Where have I heard that. Oh right, multiple times by SE saying that going forward they'll provide more information in advance and will involve the community.
 
(presumably in response to the feedback that there were not any annoucements.)
 
5:03 PM
and there's still no answer to the feedback that this feature is rediculous. yes, data shows it was useful to the users you tested it with. Your data will also show that i've clicked on it several times.
that doesn't change the feedback i've provided
 
To be honest, I saw the A/B test announcement. I assumed that it will be for anonymous users. At no point did I expect it to be rolled out to all users. I might have offered some feedback if that were the case. But it only said it's going to be an A/B test on anonymous traffic. Then it was updated that it concluded. Then Kevin posted a screenshot of it live.
 
@KevinB data shows that it was noticed and interacted with by users, not that it was useful to them
I do hope that the feedback on metric use resonates and we see future experiments tested with better metrics
 
they've been using metrics like this for a long time now
over community feedback
Run a survey with vague questions, match responses up with conveniently relevant marketing initiatives, execute
What would the... goal be? Why would someone getting here from google who found an answer that works for them... stick around? I stuck around because I was interested in answering questions, so that's one. Outside of that... what would be the purpose? so you can read questions and answers to problems you don't have? — Kevin B Oct 25, 2022 at 18:38
 
Also TBH, the negative score and extreme low interaction with the A/B announcement is another type of feedback. Which, of course, was ignored. We see a fair few of these features where it's quite clear SE doesn't care and will push through. And there are other features where they try to engage the community early and seem to be willing to be interested in feedback. I don't know how or why there is such a huge split.
 
if you want people to stick around, give them a reason to. If you think presenting interesting questions to people will solve that problem, great! you have a plan. now lets start by deciding what an interesting question is.
 
5:39 PM
Looking at this very optimistically (probably undeservedly so), this A/B test has produced a useful result: there could be a return on investment in improving the related suggestions.
 
Would be great if the Related suggestions are in the same ballpark. And, here is a radical idea, they should change based on things like somebody linking a question. Like, I don't know, closing it as a duplicate. If the suggestions took this into account, then that would be a huge step into making them more useful.
Of course making them more accurate in general should not be ignored, either.
I don't know if they ever change after the question is posted. I've never verified if an answer update the suggestions, for example. I suspect they are mostly based on title and tags of the Q.
But perhaps taking into account answers is also something to be considered.
 
determining relatedness is also genuinely hard
 
I don't meant to imply it isn't. But I do want to heavily imply that right now the relatedness seems to ignore a lot of useful information.
I'm pretty sure the list of suggested questions you get while asking is more accurate.
 
Makyen's answer also implies it's not taking tags into account
 
It must be. I don't see, say, C++ questions related to JS ones.
However, it most definitely isn't taking them into account enough.
 
5:48 PM
Probably the easiest way to do it well is to run the title and tags through a web search API with site:stackoverflow.com. But that might be, well, expensive.
 
It seems to be the most "major" tags. Mostly language but also big frameworks might show up in Related. Angular or React, for exampe.
But here is a quick example of how ridiculous the Related are. If a question is closed as a duplicate and the title is a very close match, then it won't be added into Related.
Yesterday I spent some time trying to find if perhaps Linked questions are removed from the Related section. Perhaps that's why a duplicate didn't show there. No, they aren't. I found one older question closed as a dupe against a very clear match. The clear match was also a high profile JS question. It was third from last in the Related section. And I can only assume it was there because it was a popular JS question. All the other Related links were popular JS questions.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:48 PM
there are no metrics that they have currently that can be used to determine what a relevant question is
accurately*
even their possible duplicate bit in the ask wizard misses more than it hits
manual dupe search rarely ever turns up what you're looking for
if we can't find it ourselves using their querying tools, how tf are they gonna do it automatically
the best case scenario for improving "related questions" is to not call it "related questions"
 
8:02 PM
0
Q: Why did I just get randomly logged out?

usertitle-says-it-all™. I don't know if I got logged out of other network sites (is the login shared?) after I logged back into SO, I was logged into MSE, but I didn't check if I got logged out of MES before logging back into SO.

 
@KevinB I may have left a comment...or five about this on Makyen's answer. Because I think all metrics proposed and most that can be done are fundamentally flawed. Here is how I go about searching for information: I type in my query in a search engine and open the first several links that seem relevant. I gather some information from them, then try to refine the search query and try again. Repeat until I hone in on a solution.
I do not want to imply all users do that but it seems to be at least one common way to search for a solution. I've witnessed other people do the same unprompted. As in, I've not tried to guide them to act like I do.
So, with this search pattern you'd probably see a lot of visits without any engagement. Even if it probably helped guide me to a solution. I might even visit a Related link because it sounds like what I need. But I might ultimately jump to another tab as well.
Since I'm searching and opening a lot of tabs, visiting a link and leaving might just mean "Right, I have this already open in another tab" or similar.
Or that I've seen the information already outside of SO. I'm not just searching SO, after all.
And that last part is rather key. But also my "breadth first search" type of visiting links. The metrics proposed all only seem to make sense if a user performs a "linear search" and only limits it to SO. Puts in a search query, lands on an SO Q&A, perhaps visits a Related Q&A, then either bounces or stays.
One of the suggestion was for "voting" to measure usefulness. However, I'm not sure enough users do vote. We have to remember most won't be logged in. Either they don't have an account or just haven't bothered logging in. I know we keep track of anonymous votes but I still suspect very few anonymous users vote.
Many won't even try as they would expect that you need an account to vote. Some would have tried voting but saw the score count didn't change so they stopped bothering. So, this metric is rather weak.
The suggestion to track copies has a bit more merit. But fails hard on questions which don't have code. An explanation of a problem or behaviour or a concept needs no copies. And one of the senior software engineers at work often goes to SO to search for such information and shares it. He keeps bookmarks in the browser or emails/IMs the links. Or at times just shares his screen in a shared code to show them.
That involves no copies. And to the best of my knowledge, he doesn't have an SO account. Which excludes him voting or bookmarking or even sharing personalised links (he posts the URL from the browser).
So, I hate to be just criticising proposed metrics without offering any alternatives but IMO, there is no metric that can work to show how "related" a question is based on user behaviour.
Or how much a post helped somebody.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:32 PM
@KevinB well thanks, now I have a lot more comments and answers to flag for deletion
unfortunately the window.location.href solution in the accepted answer of the target wasn't added until some time in 2015, so there are several less-useful answers which predate it, meaning I can't flag them for mod deletion :-(
 
@TylerH There is one answer from the year of our lord 2022 where the author decided that what we were missing was location.href
 
which definitely already exists in at least half a dozen answers
feel free to snag that as a mod flag for deletion, I've already flagged about half a dozen across those questions
 
Also an answer where the author decided that while this is tagged JS and also jQuery and even mentions jQuery in the title, what really was missing was a JSTL solution. Which is of course very relevant. If you have a Java project and are writing code in a JSP page.
 
Java is just the basic core part of JavaScript right
 
Right - it's in the name.
Why would they name it "Java" if not because it's related to JavaScript?
 
9:44 PM
@VLAZ we literally gave them this feedback on the opening post
 
Seriously, we're having the Java vs JavaScript discussion again? It's obviously the other way around...JavaScript is the scripting engine for Java.
@RyanM I decided to try asking the new ChatGPT-based Bing to try to do this... so far it has successfully found one duplicate that is not exactly straightforward to find mechanically, but its ability to be good at this is somewhat hampered by its tendency to, uh, invent links to questions that aren't real.
 
my opening comment on that post directly proposes the, "Why is this important?" question, why are we interested in getting users to browse questions they don't have and read answers they don't need?
i can understand caring about this if you're strictly trying to improve sales/ad revenue
from that angle it makes perfect sense
How do you increase ad impressions? you take the 85% of your traffic that only views a single page and get them to view 2.
 
@KevinB One view here might be that the question they land on is not necessarily the question they have, but instead a similar one.
Certainly I've landed on plenty of questions and gone "ugh, no, that's a different problem"
 
possibly, though they'd ofc need to do a lot more than moving related questions around to do that, ;)
 
Well, yes, the related questions would need to be, well...related.
 
9:50 PM
and... of course, the other changes in this initiative don't track with that
moving the blog around isn't getting people to similar questions
I can't help but see this as nothing more than a marketing initiative
Why else would they only implement it on SO
if it had a positive outcome for SO visitors, why would it not have a positive outcome on literature?
 
Well, the blog isn't particularly related to literature.
 
it's often not related to programming either, but i mean,
the sponsored post right now is server management.
 
It's still about software development, at least
 
@RyanM Look this can't be true. JS must be way older than Java. So far it has embedded into popular culture. For example, if you startle somebody they are likely to exclaim "JSus!" or "JSus Cries!" instinctively reverting to a deeply rooted fear and respect of JS. This has been observed over generations.
There is even an old series of books where the main character is actually named "JSus" and is a personification of the programming language to show off its capabilities. Like type coercing water into wine or memory leaks that produce endless copies of fish.
I don't remember reading about Java in 2000 year old books.
 
10:08 PM
0
Q: Javascript AI make stupid moves - minmax function in Tic-tac-toe

kozubaI am struggling for the second day what is wrong with my minmax function in Tic tac toe game. Even spending two days on code I can not found the Codepen function bestMove() { let bestScore = -Infinity; let move; for (let i = 0; i < 9; i++) { if (board[i] =...

 
how about that javascript AI
 
10:22 PM
Top quality - very artificial.
 

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