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12:02 AM
Question I asked in ChatGPT just now:
"What is your opinion about Stack Overflow banning answers given by you (ChatGPT)?"
Answer: "As an AI language model, I don't have personal opinions or emotions. However, I can understand that Stack Overflow banning answers generated by AI models like me might have been a decision made to maintain the quality and credibility of the answers provided on the platform."
"Stack Overflow is a community-driven platform that prioritizes answers that are accurate, comprehensive, and up-to-date, and the decision to exclude AI-generated answers may have been made in order to ensure that only the best answers are being presented to users. However, it's also possible that Stack Overflow may consider incorporating AI-generated answers in the future, as technology continues to evolve and AI models become more advanced."
 
12:39 AM
Honestly ChatGPT would do well on Meta.
(not a suggestion)
 
True, interesting.
"However, it's also possible that Stack Overflow may consider incorporating AI-generated answers in the future, as technology continues to evolve and AI models become more advanced.". Really?
 
1:08 AM
Honestly, like, having ChatGPT try to answer the question before you post it might be useful
 
Or well, maybe have a pair-programming/debugging season with ChatGPT...
 
 
1 hour later…
2:12 AM
0
Q: Anaconda Navigator can't create Jupyter Notebook

Jonathan LeviUsing macos Ventura: When I try to use the Anaconda Navigator to create a Jupyter notebook, it opens a Terminal window, where the command fails: $ /opt/anaconda3/bin/jupyter_mac.command ; exit; Traceback (most recent call last): File "/opt/anaconda3/bin/jupyter-notebook", line 7, in from noteboo...

 
2:54 AM
0
Q: My closed (duplicate) question had nothing to do with the duplicate

dcromley(SO# 75152969) I asked a javascript question and didn't get any answer in a few days and I put a Bounty on it and got a great answer. Later that day, it was closed [duplicate]. The referenced answer was about "disable scrolling", which was not in my question. The great answer did not mention "di...

 
3:40 AM
@VLAZ I rather like the look of it, actually. Why would you think that is not intended?
 
 
2 hours later…
5:55 AM
Hey, look, it's not just Stack Overflow anymore!
 
 
1 hour later…
6:56 AM
@CodyGray I don't know if it's intended. It's high contrast dark mode, after all - it's not like many intentional changes are made. And I don't really remember how it looked before, to be quite honest. Seems "new" to me but I might be misremembering.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:32 AM
@CodyGray OK tried it in all modes. Seems intended. In light modes, the dialog has dark background, in dark modes it's light. Apparently to contrast the background on the page. I still can't remember if this was the case or not before.
 
1
Q: Rename [google-maps-styled] to [google-maps-styling]

MrUpsidownThe google-maps-styled tag has no usage/wiki but it is about the styling options that are available when displaying a map with the various Google Maps APIs / SDKs. I would therefore suggest to rename this tag to google-maps-styling as this is the way Google identifies this functionnality. I'll be...

 
Coming back to this discussion the next day, and in light of the sob-story you've posted to your profile, I feel like the intention was never to help people or contribute meaningfully to Stack Overflow. You just wanted somewhere to experiment with your (frankly crap) AI and are upset we don't want to be your guinea pigs. — Pranav Hosangadi 1 hour ago
 
All the recent comments on that are good:
Although in my very honest opinion, the main core of the problem is another type of "stackoverflow is toxic", when new contributors wanted to accomplish what they wanted to do disregarding the rules. — Alvi15 6 hours ago
 
> He thought to himself, why not allow the AI to respond and post it then if something doesn't work for the original poster he would himself update and fix it. This is what he did, when it was brought to his attention.
Didn't the account have 2 answers? Or maybe 3? How often did that happen, exactly - once?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:09 AM
Bring me the world's smallest violin for this bio.
 
Never have I liked reading random bold. It's gonna drive me insane. Bolded characters give more weight to the word, so you end up reading it with emphasis.
That's a lot of random emphasises and nobody talks like that.
 
10:28 AM
All of this to say they wanted to do things their own way, and everyone else be damned.
 
10:42 AM
@VLAZ ... i hate you, btw The Game :(
 
@AndrewT. We know the game, and we're gonna play it
 
 
1 hour later…
11:54 AM
-1
Q: Why did I get cookie notice for SO only, but not for other SE sites?

αλεχολυτJust got cookie notice on stackoverflow.com, but not for any other SE site when I'm participating (even didn't get it for meta.so): Why did I get this notice for SO only? Especially interesting because in sentences is stated about "Stack Exchange" (as far as I understand it relates to the whol...

 
12:20 PM
ugh, the Q-ban algorithm is even worse than I thought.
 
I probably don't disagree. However, can you be more specific?
 
I just realized that I could be inadvertently, indirectly contributing to Q-bans for well-meaning people who want to improve their Qs and are acting in good faith, by trying to improve their Qs (by editing).
 
> deletion itself counts against questions less than 30 days old when deleted if others have invested time into answering or moderating (editing/reviewing) the question.
Huh. I was under the impression that deletion always counted. But deleted negatively scored were weighted more.
To be honest, I'm kind of in favour of deletions counting more anyway. I mean, while there are lots of deletions that happen, the reason isn't arbitrary it's not THAT easy to get content deleted. If you tried to submit something useful and of quality.
With that said, I also do think that users who had, say, a rocky history in the beginning shouldn't be punished many moons later. Like, somebody who posted three bad questions five years ago, came back and tried to post a good one shouldn't really have the old ones weigh them back. Water under the bridge and all that. I know Ryan has opinions on this as well.
Still, for you I think you shouldn't be discouraged to try and polish the questions. The Q-ban algorithm shouldn't be a shadow looming over any attempt of improvement. I mean, it kind of is, sure, but shouldn't matter. Don't let that motivate your actions.
> the system expects the user to un-delete the question and improve it, even though it is a duplicate.
FWIW - I am pretty sure duplicate closures don't count towards Q-ban. Negative scored ones still do but for the negative scoring part.
So, a user with, say, 10 questions closed as duplicates, each of those scored zero, shouldn't really face a much harder time than most other users.
(Well, probably would face as much difficulty as a user with just 10 open unanswered questions scored zero)
 
 
2 hours later…
2:21 PM
@VLAZ okay, but that's silly, because whether a duplicate actually gets downvoted is even more arbitrary and capricious than usual.
primarily it depends on whether the first viewer is someone who has seen the question a million times but doesn't have a gold badge.
as well as other factors, like mood.
@VLAZ we're talking here primarily about self-deletions, perhaps in response to the first downvote and/or a comment
or to just realizing a typo or some other simple issue
if you get content deleted by others, commonly that comes with a -3 score, since otherwise one would have to wait for the roomba (which will also not cooperate in case of FGITW)
 
Deletions also happen by Roomba for most questions scored zero and unanswered. Especially closed ones.
The system also sees deleted zero scored, unanswered, uncommented questions as negative. And...well, they kind of are. Even hard questions that may be unanswered for years, tend to at least get some comments.
Something that fails to get any traction tends to be rather mundane question.
 
I think I would have to write an actual post on Meta to clarify this properly.
separately, though: I feel like self-answered questions that weren't answered simultaneously with the question, where the answer is accepted, should get some kind of review, especially if they're from newer users. I have found that these answers often indicate that the problem was caused by a typo, and the answer is simply describing the typo that OP found after taking a couple days to think about the problem and, you know, actually debug
 
@KarlKnechtel As in, what does the Q-ban algorithm consider or not? If so, there isn't a satisfying answer. It's unknown and, AFAIK, unknowable. From observation, it also seems it changes occasionally. But can't really be sure.
 
no, I mean, to describe exactly what I think is wrong about the observed in-evidence things about how it works, and propose changes
 
@KarlKnechtel Yeah. Often somebody dumps details about an error, then the next day they come back and go "Yeah, worked today. Don't know why". Or "I actually had an error in a completely different place not at all obvious from the question." or even "I was actually running the wrong code". All variations of the fact that the question is essentially unanswerable.
Not with the details listed. And even if you were to properly clarify it, it becomes useless "Why do I get different results to my code, if I'm not running my code at all?"
 
2:41 PM
indeed
every now and then there's a non-trivial "why do I need to write it this way instead of that way? what does the wrong code mean fundamentally, that's different from what I want?" sort of question - but those are better written from scratch, if they have any value
and they would only have value because multiple people write something analogous to "it", and fundamentally have the same wrong thought about how
(i.e., the same as any other typo question)
... incidentally: is there any kind of standardization for the sort of pseudocode used in CS textbooks?
 
Also, in fairness, there are a lot of questions that eventually get a self-answer where the question was answerable. But nobody did before OP did. Just because OP is investigating the matter anyway. Future users occasionally also manage to chime in with other answers.
 
I have a particular language-agnostic, common logical error I've been considering writing a canonical for
@VLAZ yes; that's why it would be a review, and not an automatic action
 
A portion of these self-answers end up in First Answers queue. Well, when they happen to also be first answers, of course. But nothing really covers self-answers in general. NATO sometimes shows these. Low Quality queue, too, if they happen to get flagged. Some are caught by Smokey or some of the other bots like when the author says "I'm so stupid..." as it's considered rude.
 
(ah, of course there's already an old, closed as POB, question about the pseudocode thing)
 
3:17 PM
> we saw a 20% year-over-year spike in questions and answers with AI-related tags following ChatGPT’s release, which reversed an overall AI-related tag decline of 12% YoY.
Wow, that's 20% from mostly December.
 
I tend to agree with you on qbans... but at the same time, there's people who post 20+ low quality questions before they get banned, like, how can you go through 20 questions and not, iunno, improve a little bit
and then there's people are are really trying and get qbanned seeminly much faster than that
 
And of course, five or six digit rep members who can post all the bad questions they want and won't get q-banned.
 
^
i'd prefer deletion to lessen the effect of the post rather than make things worse
it's so counter-intuitive
they're being punished for cleaning up their mess
 
The q-ban algorithm manages to be both over- and under-inclusive in which users it hits.
It's just generally Not Good.
 
@KevinB yeah, definitely a lot of room for improvement there
 
3:26 PM
@KevinB or at least not make things worse in cases that aren't "get answer and immediately delete question to hide that it was asked"
 
i'd just like it to be a bit smarter
if you delete a question that received an answer in the last day, it's added to a counter.
 
@VLAZ OK, fess up, was that you, Makyen? Or Dharman? :-P
 
reach 3 and you get a mod flag + throttle
 
the "most active moderator handled 104k flags alone"
 
directly address the problem they're causing
 
3:28 PM
@TylerH Or Martjin?
 
possibly
 
4:11 PM
It would be particularly impressive if it were Dharman or I given that we weren't moderators for the whole year...
 
wow, 104k flags. That's extremely busy
 
how many of them were automated
 
We're not allowed to automate mod actions
Also assuming that the past year of flags is reasonably representative of 2022's flag-handling count, I'm gonna say that the 104k flags were not all on one site.
 
I misinterpreted that as flags raised, not handled, sorry
(though, i suppose they still needed to be raised)
i'd assume the 104k was zoe and mostly comment flags
 
I've handled 30.6k in the past year, which has me in third by that metric for that time period on SO.
@KevinB a reasonable guess but no: the vast majority of those comments weren't flagged; she found them herself
 
4:17 PM
through... querying sede?
 
I think so
Or maybe DB dumps
 
Same difference, right?
 
my point is effectively, these numbers out of context sound impressive but a lot of them are just finding ways to work around lack of mod tools to work more efficiently
 
isn't finding ways to work around lack of mod tools to work more efficiently itself impressive?
 
it's sad
 
4:19 PM
also yes
 
sadpressive
 
particularly frustrating to me when the staff uses these numbers as a marketing tool, while spending years not improving our ability to deal with the content problems on SO
 
to their credit, they are finally starting to invest there
agreed that they spent years not doing that, of course, and that is indeed frustrating
 
@RyanM That's a good point. When did Bhargav resign again?
 
@TylerH After the election 2021. So November-ish or so.
 
4:31 PM
Ah so he was gone the whole of 2022
@RyanM you referring to the weekly published data dump? Or do mods get access to internal DB dumps with more information now?
@RyanM Yeah, for a start they could just spend some time integrating the tooling that mods use via userscripts. That'd probably be a huge boon
and the logic is already largely written
 
@TylerH Yeah, the public dumps (whatever frequency they happen at) though I'm sort of speculating since I'm not sure what she's doing.
 
@RyanM Why, magic, of course.
 
4:53 PM
of course
 
5:41 PM
Q: How to find common substring between two strings?
A: Check if the common substring can be found in both strings.
Answer has +4 / 0
Me: *facepalm*
 
i mean
the answer is correct
 
The answer doesn't even address the question of how to find that common substring. Yes, if you have it, you can check if it exists in both other strings. But that's not really useful as it should be self-evident that a common substring is, by its very definition, found in both strings.
 
just check it
 
It's not there. The question is for how to find if such a substring exists and what the substring is, if it does.
 
red check or green check?
 
5:53 PM
Dunno what a "red check" is, so maybe decide for yourself
 
"View More Companies" on the companies ad uses the MSO logo
 
How very meta
 
Thinking of the checkmarks my teachers used to give me. All in red pen...
 
6:24 PM
 
6:48 PM
-2
Q: suspend for 7 days cause of using ChatGPT's answers

Jason0011In last days I was on suspensions for 7 days, because of I used ChatGPT answers to on our community, Yes the answers was in theoretical but its help users to understand the problem and they appreciate my answers too.. this suspension was unexpected, I read policy their not mention rules or AI gen...

 
7:05 PM
@NewPosts Brings up a good point. If only there was any way to find out that ChatGPT is temporarily banned. But alas, this is kept secret. Maybe one day there would be a way to broadcast such policy on literally every Stack Overflow page. Perhaps in some sort of side bar. I can only dream of this ever becoming reality.
 
0
Q: Collectives: The next iteration

BertholdThe Collectives product is moving into a new stage of iteration and development. This post and the companion posts linked below are meant to offer a holistic view of Collectives, why it’s a focus for Stack Overflow, and how we’ll be working closely with the community on how it will keep evolving....

 
> a Collective is a developer conference that is always going on.
 
0
Q: Collectives: Looking back

BertholdNote for context: this post is part of a series about Collectives on Stack Overflow.  To read the full series, begin at this primary post. This is a post that’s certainly overdue. As we look ahead to the evolution of Collectives, taking a candid look back is important. The desire for a level of s...

0
Q: Collectives and sponsorship

BertholdNote for context: this post is part of a series about Collectives on Stack Overflow.  To read the full series, begin at this primary post. This post is to provide detail and clarity around the commercial vision for Collectives™ on Stack Overflow, which has been at the core of the community’s conc...

 
Are the Borg trying to assimilate all of Meta?
 
>Ok bro, I'll buy you a coffee. You can go now :)
I'm so relieved, I can go...
 
7:18 PM
0
Q: Collectives: Overview of features and community management

BertholdNote for context: this post is part of a series about Collectives on Stack Overflow.  To read the full series, begin at this primary post. In this post, we’ll be: Doing a brief review of Collectives features. Detailing updates to articles that will arrive with the next release. Outlining how t...

0
Q: Collectives: How did we select the initial collective topics for launch?

BertholdNote for context: this post is part of a series about Collectives on Stack Overflow.  To read the full series, begin at this primary post. As announced here, there will be two new collectives launching in the coming weeks, focused on: R – a programming language CI/CD – a methodology Many of y...

 
I feel like I'm sat at a conference and keeps on going.
 
ugh, why are they spamming Collectives questions
 
Do you want my conspiracy answer or the non-conspiracy answer?
 
both?
 
Non-conspiracy: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Conspiracy: I've noticed that most Collectives announcement try and deflect any potential points raised against Collectives. Earlier announcement would have a completely misleading title. Or would be announcing a thing, then asking "What's your experience with X" which is barely related to the announcement. But a good excuse to ignore any feedback. SE has been called out on each of these. Now they are flooding with announcements, so it's hard to accurately read and respond to all of them.
 
7:34 PM
> A collective brings developers together in a more focused space, to collaborate and learn from one another, as well as connect with other subject matter experts from the community.
Still making it up I see
 
Resistance is futile
 
Collectives: the Next Generation Iteration
 
Are we next gonna have people with 200k-700k rep deciding what posts are recognized and what articles are good?
the same users who routinely fail to close duplicates/offtopic questions because the asker can be helped?
Teresa Dietrich on February 01, 2023
Now you can discover relevant online courses from Pluralsight® and Udemy® on Stack Overflow.
More ways to learn! oh, wait
it's just the same paid platforms offering the same old tutorials
Are we promoting puralsight and udemy now?
 
7:50 PM
ayup
 
8:01 PM
@KevinB Incidentally, just posted basically about this. As I find very often, me and Kevin seem to be on the same mind about collectives.
It's on one of the questions. Erm, they all blend together, so not sure which one. Something about community.
 
you tend to be a bit more nuanced than me in presenting the point tho
i do appreciate teh additonal curation tools they'll finally be adding, years later, but it's still rather unclear what would make an article off topic.
For example, there's an azure article that explains how to perform a server management task. Is that on topic? There's certainly tags here related to all of the tools it is using
it doesn't involve writing any code or doing any form of programming
Will articles in these new collections be glorified documentation posts explaining getting started topics? regurgitating information available elsewhere?
seems like that's specifically what they're designing it for
All of the articles thus far are exactly that
Will they remain single-author?
creating a mad dash to be the one who's name is on the getting started article?
is it just me, or does that comment reply just have a bunch of words that don't say anything
> The friction, debate and (hopefully) eventual consensus is part of the process, right? We're certainly interested to see how the groups work together and we'll be guiding the conversations where needed. These processes (curating, answering) are happening already, so the idea is that if some/many of those people have more visibility into one another's activity, and can even connect/collaborate in some way, the processes will work even better. Less close/reopen wars, more understan<too long>
this tool doesn't provide us a way to work together
 
"Amount of problematic flags" is a bit of a catch-all term, and we're looking at flags for behavior (spam/abuse), in addition to suspensions. Essentially focusing on users who are "in good standing". — Berthold ♦ 1 min ago
^ Also confirmed. The metrics favour the most prolific users.
They rarely would have flags against them as they tend to post an answer and leave.
 
it's just going to create a secretive clique that runs the collective from a private SO team
 
My fear as well.
It's sort of like SOCVR, however, SOCVR is very heavy on transparency and accountability.
 
8:36 PM
-2
Q: "This question already has answers here": [question asked three years later]

Patrick McElhaneyA small quibble with the word "already". A question I asked a long time ago was closed because it's a "duplicate" of another question. It comes across as a little accusatory, suggesting that I failed to find existing answers before asking a duplicate question. When in fact my question was asked a...

 
 
2 hours later…
10:07 PM
@KevinB Wasn't me, no. The bulk of the noise isn't flagged, because there's just so much of it
I switched over to handling more comments at the expense of flag handling, so I did like around 20k (says 17k in the past year, but that excludes january last year now)
Even half of 107k would require around 2 users flagging 136 comments daily all year, and that I handle the comment flags daily, neither of which hold
But this year, I aim for around 1500-2500 comments per day (because I have a backlog of 1.4 million comments to delete, plus the daily influx of around 500-1500 comments)
 
10:24 PM
0
Q: How can I appeal against deleting my answer?

EvgenyI accidentally wrote the answer to the wrong question, then I replaced it. Then I write the answer to the right question. It was accepted and had 2 upvotes. But moderator deleted it for no reason. Message says that I wrote exact answer for 2 different question. But it is not true. This was absolu...

 
> and as for the 1 downvote, my frustration comes from this being like my 5th account cause no matter how much or how little information i provide [...] my posts still get trashed [...] and the solution to removing said block is a complete n utter joke
A pretty clear way of saying they are unable to contribute positively, so the only thing that's left is to contribute negatively.
 
> I'd suspect users with reputations in the tens of thousands are exceptionally intelligent and, unlike me, may be vulnerable to an oversized ego. It leaves me wondering to whom they are accountable. Are their checks and balances in place for grumpy moderators, neglected by their parents, whose only consolation in life is identifying imperfection in others, culminating in a rash of unwarranted downvotes?
> unlike me, may be vulnerable to an oversized ego.
 
That part in bold seems to be overlooking the Dunning-Kruger effect.
 
@KevinB I, too, am the most humble person IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!
 
10:58 PM
i can't wait for this to go live and just be entirely inundated with articles re-treading existing ground for rep, SO Docs style
 

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