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8:00 AM
lol...
 
> All it does is convince me that SO is being run by curators who have no sense of what made it successful in the first place
OK fine, the success is in letting everyone ask and answer everything. You heard it firsthand!
 
I can literally do this all day! There's heaps of material that calls out on that BS
2
and they are all left in conflict of interest
not once have they commented on another user's answer
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine What about #4?
 
That one was already disqualified because it was not requesting an accept.
 
@RyanM oh, that one wasn't really an accept request as discussed - I picked a bad example
ahem, "request"
 
8:06 AM
But yeah, I think a lot of this stuff would be rightly banned under my proposal
That said, replying to this wouldn't:
Awesome, thank you very much. Tried to upvote your answer but I can't since I'm new here :/ — user14988248 Apr 5, 2021 at 5:40
 
and that list of now 8 comments omits the more mildly worded comments, but again, all I open are under their own answers, because duh, of course
^ ab-so-lute-ly no pressure
 
Ugh
 
Yeah
Not to mention the cluelessness
These people try to claim they're helping new users learn to use the site, but... they're not.
 
Yeah a lot of these are, IMHO, already very clearly not okay. Even under existing recommendations.
 
What they're telling people to do, those people can't even do it.
Someone needs an education in how to use the site, but it doesn't appear to be the new users.
 
"Do you understand that... you are supposed to..."
Ugh
Also, wow.
My bad I choose the other answer, sorry. Though I will earn some rep to bring yours up and to everyone. — user1903782 Dec 15, 2012 at 2:24
 
And note that they've moved the accept to jfriend's answer!
 
Yeesh. Remind me in a few days to go through and delete all these once they're not part of a discussion.
Or Zoe, she's good at that :-p
 
The thing is, they're always part of this discussion, each and every time we have it.
I think that's Zoe's whole point.
If not, it'll be mine.
 
8:12 AM
oh, I had a recent "discussion" on MSE where someone claimed that upvotes should be moved once the technology updates
 
...moved...where?
 
To the new answer, which I post myself, of course.
 
to a newer answer, duh!
 
I...see.
 
Why do you even need to ask?
 
8:13 AM
it's the one that said "history is irrelevant"
 
The votes should be moved to the blockchain, of course!
 
For bonus points, plagiarize the existing answer and include it as an afterword in your new answer: "On older versions:"
 
Then we have decentralized, transparent goodness.
 
In fairness, there's some truth that under the current sort order, moving upvotes would basically be the only way for newer, better answers to gain ground.
 
Why hasn't "blockchain is for blockheads" caught on yet?
 
8:14 AM
...however, that's definitely not actually the right solution.
 
No, of course not, because it's not spelled e-d-i-t, and it doesn't look-ie like a "wiki".
 
@RyanM True. Historical voting inertia tends to favour older answers, even if not optimal.
 
ehhhhhh I realllly don't love the idea of edits to existing answers that change what they suggest.
 
I've seen too many people try it and just be wrong.
and then their wrongness has +100 score or whatever.
 
8:16 AM
@RyanM append?
 
What a mess, please stop bringing dirt into the chatroom. :[
 
"it's your responsibility"!
 
@RyanM Me neither. It's not what the people voted for. Piggybacking on the votes cast for something different seems wrong.
 
Even still, you're granting a solution that was not ...what VLAZ said ^
 
There is, I suppose, one thing to say in their defense: they've gotten better over time, not worse.
Either that, or mods have gotten better at deleting the more recent ones they've left, thus obscuring them from Oleg's observation.
 
8:17 AM
Reminds me of those who say it's a civic duty to explain your downvote.
 
aaand a final one (going to stop there, as the amount of trash is, indeed, overwhelming):
 
@CodyGray Nah, I checked and I concur with your assessment that the worst stuff is older.
 
> you've just convinced me to abandon any future visits to Meta and perhaps even abandon my free contributions on SO
 
Given that a civic duty arises out of allegiance that citizens owe to their government... yeah. Nope.
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
8:20 AM
 
@E_net4 They're going to start charging now. $1 for every comment that demands acceptance of their answers.
 
@E_net4 mission accomplished then. Less answers to mega-dupes, less wasted time of everyone on Meta. Win-win.
if anyone's interested in further "fun", here's the query. And that's only one of the combinations!
 
We all have our share of fun with queries.
 
Just a question: What will all of those people who spend their time flagging questions as unanswerable do when people stop asking questions? Walk the dog? Do the dishes? Spend time with their wives? "Oh, you didn't format your question correctly - we need to block you" What happens when people realize that asking a question gets them blocked and decide to go elsewhere? You have invested much to get Google to put you at the top of their search list, then !@#%-!@#& the people who click on the links. Is there nobody in charge watching, deciding what your @#$% purpose is? — Hippo Potamus Jan 24, 2016 at 22:37
 
SEDE's so much fun.
 
8:24 AM
@HippoPotamus - This place is largely moderated by the community via upvotes, downvotes, closevotes, etc... There are official moderators, but it appears that most of the work is done by the community. It generally works. It is far from perfect though and one of the larger perfections (IMO) is around this very topic. Questions that could get very good and useful answers are closed because others think the question asks for too much opinion and they vote to close. Over time, you will learn how to phrase to avoid this issue and dealing with a closed question is part of how you learn. — jfriend00 Jan 25, 2016 at 4:28
@HippoPotamus - Once your question is closed, it rarely does any good to edit it to try to get it reopened. It pretty much just doesn't happen. Once it's closed people just don't really see it any more. So, if you really want to reask a question about this that won't get closed for these reasons, then you can post a new question phrased differently. FYI, your question also has major issues about being "too broad" too. You need to ask much more specific questions here. Answers should be possible in a few paragraphs and/or a little code. — jfriend00 Jan 25, 2016 at 4:32
 
aaaaaaaaargh
 
Yes, definitely, I see that they are doing exactly what they said about teaching new users how to use the site.
 
Cody are you trying to cause me pain
 
I'm trying to convince you that you're wrong, and assuming constructive/benevolent intentions on the part of people who leave these comments is, at best, misguided.
Pain is only a side benefit.
If I was going for all-out pain, I'd break out the coconut cake.
 
Ugh, I just imagined that.
I really do not like shredded coconut. It ruins good food.
 
8:26 AM
there probably are those who post out of good intentions, @CodyGray, but I have no doubt they are as rare as unicorns
 
And they likely do so so few times that we would never notice.
 
So, for all practical purposes, this "policy" does not apply to them.
 
I'm not assuming constructive or benevolent intentions. I'm trying to construct a framework in which we don't have to care about intentions, because the rules under which the comments can be posted are narrow enough that they would be beneficial to the site regardless of motivation.
 
And we can avoid adding all of these edge-cases, required investigation, random sampling, and potential rules-lawyering into it.
Imagine if the rules under which the comments can be posted were even simpler.
 
8:28 AM
I think that would leave the site worse off.
 
> “Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”
This works for both coconut and comments.
 
We would have an easier time moderating comments if there weren't any comments at all, but we acknowledge that some comments are useful.
 
Yes, comments that suggest improvements to the post and/or ask clarification questions.
 
I continue to believe that properly rating answers is an improvement to the post. I also continue to believe that suggesting that users not continue to misuse comments is a constructive use of comments.
 
...?
There's no way I can go with the latter.
I misused comments because you did it first?
That's where you use the flag and/or delete options, not the "post a new comment" option.
 
8:31 AM
I don't think that is a misuse of comments.
 
> So you're trying to drop dirt from 7 years ago to prove a point
 
Removing the asker's "thanks, that worked" from an answer that has no acceptance or upvote is removing useful information. Why would we want to do that without putting the information in the correct place first?
 
^^ sure... if only there weren't heaps of other examples, that argument would've worked
 
This is the same person who was arguing elsewhere we shouldn't close questions.
I am not sad about the loss. Maybe that makes me a bad person.
 
That name rang a bellfriend
 
8:34 AM
A jfriend, not a bellfriend
 
The sad part is that jfriend does contribute really useful and thorough answers.
 
@CodyGray I am sorry to say this... but I am not sure I am either. They just treat the site like a help desk and answer anything that moves with posts that are specific to OP's situation and their situation only. Maybe that makes me a bad person too.
 
And yet, somehow, they think that they're what makes the site great?
 
Some people just want to see the world burn help people...
 
8:38 AM
duh, of course. I share subject matter expertise with them - out of 7 answers in May (however, I abstained from voting), I do not see any lasting value created.
Those are just replies on a forum. Well-formatted, sure. Detailed, sure. But of little value as a knowledge piece
 
-1
Q: Possible loophole in SE's new policy of not allowing users to ask for Accepting the answer

Anoop RanaI came to know that it is no longer allowed to ask users(who have not accepted any of their past question) for accepting an answer on which they have said "thank you". My question is that suppose the user named userXYZ says thanks(for providing an answer to their question) to me than can i write ...

 
> Askers have a responsibility as well, and I think ghosting isn't fair.
People really, really don't understand how the site is meant to work.
 
Don't you know we are a dating site? Ghosting is not cool /s
The only damned responsibility the asker has is asking a good question
Ensuring it hasn't been asked a million times. Format it. Provide an MRE if needed. And that's freaking it
 
> Because now the user has a choice whether to click on the link or not
Yes, the mystery box choice.
At the risk of a leaky analogy: "I didn't kill him, your honour. It was his choice to open the box which contained venomous snakes."
 
It's more like:
 
8:48 AM
I really think that the policy should be amended to "conflict of interest" if there's going to be a huge backlash. That will bring out the ugly side of this practice to light immediately
 
> I didn't put the venomous snakes in that room. I put them in a box.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine You can post an answer :-)
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Yeah, but ugh. Unless you're volunteering to look through all of the comments and check for a conflict of interest each time...
 
But also that ^
 
@RyanM after I get some sleep :) It's 12PM, and I am still up
 
8:49 AM
I mean, fundamentally, I agree that the CoI is the issue.
Those are the only cases where I have sent these messages.
But the workload is too damn high for that to be sustainable.
 
As someone whose proposed policy is somewhat more work than the blanket policy, I realllllly don't want to include a CoI check.
 
@CodyGray well, I can automate it, actually
And bringg out all the bullshit of "helping the site" in one swoop
 
We do have plenty of bulls
 
Looks like the policy change proposal didn't mention that the system already reminds to accept the questions, though I don't know if it's still working after the UI revamp.
10
Q: Suggestion for improvement profile questions section

mihkov I saw some difference inconsistency in the questions list (profile page) where “accept-reminder” is visible (red text). The texts goes jagged. I think if they are aligned, it will be better. Second thing is the statistics (stars, vote, answers, views) - all numbers are on top except the st...

 
Oh, good point; I forgot about that feature. I also don't know if it's still working.
 
8:53 AM
That...is also not really a page that I expect a lot of these people are necessarily seeing
 
The announcement also doesn't mention that there are first-class, just-in-time pop-ups providing this information on the Q&A.
 
It would also be very helpful to have a list of what these features are.
 
The announcement implies it's buried in tooltips, or at least that's how people are interpreting it.
A list of undocumented features?
 
I am all for blanlet-banning all this, just feel like it's going to end in either dropping it or going hard against the sentiment. And this might bring out big guns, and I am not sure SE will do the right thing if involved
 
Well, then it'd be documented.
 
8:54 AM
Hence the paradox!
 
I've never seen such a reminder, FWIW.
 
You aren't a new user
 
I don't ask here, but I do on MSE.
Well, that's true.
 
I've definitely seen them on a throwaway account I created once.
For the purposes of testing a thing that people also claimed happened.
@CodyGray My point is that "i never asked the user to accept my post/answer". By saying you're welcome the user is made aware in general of the feature of voting/accpeting an answer/post. Asking for accpetance and making user aware in general are two different things. And that too only if the user in question has not closed any of the question asked before by accepting an answer. — Anoop Rana 5 mins ago
 
@RyanM same, never seen one. Neither on StackApps, nor on MSE
 
8:56 AM
At any rate, the overwhelming response seems to be that no one thinks that these reminders, whatever they are, work.
 
How can you have >16k rep and not know the difference between closing and accepting?
@RyanM Because they're judging "work" by "did my answers get accepted?"
 
I also don't see it on the only SO question I have... :/
 
Meh, I'm judging it by "do users express that they are genuinely unaware of the feature when told about it?"
 
All of us brand-new users!
 
They do, so I conclude that it does not work very well.
On the other hand, the comments seem much more effective.
 
8:58 AM
@CodyGray Easy: each question is a support ticket. It gets closed when there is an accepted answer.
 
Yes, bashing people over the head with comments is very effective. Not sure if that's an argument for or against banning these comments.
 
oh, surely they've never been told how this works: stackoverflow.com/tour
oh, look, in big bold letters:
> The person who asked can mark one answer as "accepted".
 
It is extremely well-established that no one reads that ;-)
 
The thing is, it's extremely well-established that no one reads anything.
 
except that... there are people who read the tour!
 
8:59 AM
@CodyGray They sure seem to read the educational comments
 
Yeah
They read things that are personally directed at them
But that doesn't make comments the right tool for the job.
 
Look, I don't have the time to waste on reading help articles!
 
What is the right tool for the job?
 
Directly beaming the information to the brain of the user.
 
Stuff they won't read.
Not all problems can be solved in a reasonable way.
 
9:06 AM
oh, look, 75% of users with >= 10 rep read the tour: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1596584
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine "read" = "have visited the page and scrolled down"
 
But if you aren't going to read it, why would you scroll down?
It's not like you're forced to do it.
 
apparently there's a complex criteria to show the accept reminder on the profile
5
A: When is the message "Have you considered accepting an answer or starting a bounty for this question?" displayed?

animusonIt will be shown for a question if all of the following criteria are true: The indicator is enabled for the site (enabled on all sites minus per-site metas, Meta Stack Exchange, and Stack Apps) You are viewing your own questions You have the privilege to vote down You do not have the privilege ...

 
I am sill of the opinion that were the Tour compulsory and interactive, this problem would not exist in the first place
 
9:09 AM
@AndrewT. As it should be. All of those criteria make sense.
 
still not answering the new UI though...
 
as the only excuse of "but I am teaching them!" would be moot
@AndrewT. oh, gosh
why the f*** would "You have the privilege to vote down" matter for it to be shown?
TIL that feature exists, though
I wonder if it still exists after the redesign
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Because users need to have the ability to both like and dislike something in order for there to be a choice.
If the only food item Ryan was ever allowed to eat again was shredded coconut, I suspect he'd start eating it. That's not the same thing as liking it.
 
I mean... why not just show it either way? Since users who would need a reminder are mostly new users, it is kind of strange to lock it until 125 rep
 
Well, also, 125 rep is a nice milestone for "been around long enough to care about the site itself", rather than being a one-and-done'er.
 
9:15 AM
that's a fair point
 
FWIW, the reminder is also for putting a bounty, so that at least requires 75...
 
So it's a reasonable time to go back and do some housekeeping tasks, like accepting.
 
@CodyGray apparently, though, it's a sliding window that scales from 125 rep to infinity
 
Yeah
Imagine the messages that'll show up upon reaching infinity!
 
"This account is temporarily suspended for doing the impossible. The suspension ends in -Infinity"
 
9:21 AM
Maybe for proving to be a human.
 
> I'm certain you don't really mean askers are "void"
^ well, considering void is just "anything" rather than "nothing", it fits well
 
It depends on where you get that definition of void.
C's void* is not a good analogy here.
 
@RyanM In all seriousness, and to be clear, this really strikes at the heart of the issue. It's well-known that users tend not to read at all, or at least skim over, information that is provided to them by the system. On the other hand, they are more likely to read information that is specifically directed at them by another person. This is a mixed blessing, though, because having the information delivered to them directly by another person raises the issue of bias and power dynamics.
All things considered, I'd rather have new users not accepting answers than new users feeling bullied into accepting answers.
 
eh, I was referring to the "any type" meaning which is kind of universal across languages
 
So, while I support improving the information that is provided by the system to users in an appropriate and neutral context, I harbor no misapprehensions that that'll completely and definitely educate users, preventing anyone from being ignorant about how the site works.
I do, of course, think, as I've expressed countless times, that you cannot simply take the fact that a large number of users are not accepting answers as evidence that they don't know about the feature. On the other hand, you're right in pointing out that there are clearly cases where users don't know about it and legitimately would use it if they did.
 
9:30 AM
there are, however, ways of achieving that by blocking access at all until a user shows they understand how the system works. But that's not a step SE's ever going to take, I think
 
No, and I'm not even sure it's useful, as it'd just result in people doing unproductive things to forcibly bypass that block.
 
I was thinking about a heavily guided unskippable tour - that's not going to be a silver bullet, but is likely to do wonders to clueless but well-meaning users
 
Yeah, improving the tour is on my wish list
Although I wonder if it shouldn't be done upon account creation, but rather after they've asked and received an answer to a question.
Just a UX thing: you don't get in a user's way when they're trying to accomplish a specific goal/task, as they'll perceive it as an annoyance and seek to dismiss/bypass it.
But once they've managed to get their immediate goal/task accomplished, and especially if they've had some success, then they'll be more receptive.
 
they could be doing that (asking and answering) interactively in an automated sandbox, though - just ask a user to create a post on a predefined topic. Check the post for issues, report all of them to the user. Show how to fix them. Provide a dummy workflow like "someone downvoted your question, here is how it looks: ..." When they try to take action you want to discourage, block them and tell them that's not what they should be doing (i.e. detect "why downvote?"), etc
it won't do anything to malicious actors, but nothing would be able either way
"look, someone posted an answer, here is how you vote up, here is how you vote down", etc
pick an objectively "good" answer and on trying to downvote explain to the user why it's worthy of upvote
pick an objectively "shit" answer and on trying to upvote explain why it should be downvoted
I guarantee such measures would make a tremendous impact on creating users that know how to use the site
 
9:47 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Right... My point is, though, people don't show up and register for an account in anticipation of having a question. They show up with an actual problem they need solved, and they're going to be highly motivated, to the point of blindly determined, to get a solution to that problem. Any barriers you attempt to put up, regardless of intention, are going to be perceived as just getting in the way of them accomplishing their goal.
It's just like how we feel about noise. They're going to think that whatever education you are attempting to provide is noise and excise getting in their way, so they'll feel justified doing anything they can think of to avoid it or bypass it.
I agree fully with doing everything you suggested, I just think timing matters.
I would expect that it'll have more success if you stick it in after they've been allowed to ask their first question, and especially after they've gotten their question answered.
 
I dunno, I'd be happy to have an experiment with that, though, probably even an A/B test. But oh well, neither of us have any say in whether this ever happens
 
Proposal: drop the acceptance rep from +15 to +2. Or reduce it otherwise.
That would probably reduce the acceptance begging. Pardon, "education".
 
Proposal: Keep the acceptance rep at +15. However, if you post a comment containing "accept" before your answer is accepted, your acceptance rep changes to -15.
In other words: if you had to ask, you don't deserve it.
 
@VLAZ when have you last checked the suggested edits review queue? :)
 
-6
Q: Run-time error '91' Object variable or With block variable not set

b0nkim trying to close my forms but this error keep get into me every time, i dont understand why, im currently working in vba and im kinda new into it. Here you guys can see a GIF of what happends: https://gyazo.com/378afa31a89ab68435fe9e2f0f7570e4 and where the error apear: https://gyazo.com/4463d3...

 
10:00 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I meant the green checkmark.
 
Whatever happened to that guy?
 
@VLAZ no, no, sorry, I meant that users go to great lengths to get even a +2
@CodyGray I think the checkmark was... deprecated
 
Retired?
 
dark jokes aside, I feel a little sting every time I see a profile with no network-wide activity for years and no apparent signs of falling out with SE
 
Because you know the signs have just been covered up?
 
10:06 AM
Well, either that or that the user passed away
 
Ah, I guess that's possible, too.
I didn't think it was that old of a checkmark.
 
Yep...it's weird to think, if any of us died tomorrow, the rest of us would just think they left. We'd never know.
...anyway, that's dark. Let's not think about that.
 
Oh, you don't have a countdown that unless stopped periodically will ensure the world knows of your untimely demise? :)
 
That's...not a terrible idea.
 
Actually, that was only part joke, I've been thinking about it for a while. The only thing stopping me is that I don't want to think what will happen if I forget about it running :)
 
10:12 AM
-2
Q: "It looks like your post is mostly code, please add some more details" limitation must gone

Catherine IvanovaStack overflow is about code! What did you expect? Are you a programmer? Please remove this limitation.

 
@NewPosts nononononono
 
@NewPosts what the heck is wrong with Meta this week?
 
Is that a dupe? Someone give me a dupe for that :-p
Never mind, Cody's faster than me.
site:meta.stackoverflow.com It looks like your post is mostly code, please add some more details
Wasn't even hard to find...
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I hear some users have the opposite: a script that continue to simulate their activity, even after they're dead.
@RyanM Well, kinda. It had been wrongly closed as a duplicate of another question asking from an editor's perspective.
 
@CodyGray Sigh. Good fix.
 
10:17 AM
> Are you a programmer?
 
@CodyGray that would work too
 
Asking the hard questions. Am I?
 
That's getting way too meta.
 
Hence why it's posted there, HA!
 
@VLAZ let's cover the bases first: "Are you?"
 
10:21 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine "I post code, therefore I am"
 
snapped
 
@VLAZ how do you know you post code?
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine "I am a programmer, therefore what I post is code."
See, irrefutable proof.
 
0
Q: Rogue moving to chat?

Victor EijkhoutMy answer https://cseducators.stackexchange.com/a/7349/6346 did not have a long discussion iirc, but someone moved it to chat. Except that it seems to go to a totally inappropriate chat. The same has happened with other answer on the same question. Can someone with more meta foo than me take a lo...

 
ok, let's see. SOCVR right now discusses typography, JavaScript - fantasy, and Meta - Descartes. Sounds about right
 
10:25 AM
Maybe we need to discuss cars or something in Userscripts.
I'm not sure what would be off-topic for the Ministry
 
@NewPosts no, really, what is going on today?
 
Rogues.
 
@VLAZ but what posts the code?
 
Stack Overflow Calligraphic Viewers Ring?
 
@NewPosts wtf. a meta post on MSO about CSEducators.SE on a random comment to HomeImprovement.SE chat.
 
10:27 AM
@NewPosts That is... certainly odd. The user who moved the comments to chat does not appear to have been a moderator!
 
@VLAZ hmm, does not seem right. Let's review close votes there, seems only fitting
@CodyGray take a look at their activity!
 
lmao
 
-5
Q: "please add some more details" limitation must gone

Catherine IvanovaAdmins many times closes my questions as "duplicate" but my questions wasn't a duplicate, for example this one "It looks like your post is mostly code, please add some more details" limitation must gone Was a discussion about limitation removal. but not a question how to deal with this limitation...

 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Yeah... just caught on to that when I read Andrew's message.
 
@NewPosts again?
@CodyGray wtf is going on there?
 
10:31 AM
Something for a CSEducators mod to deal with, from the looks of it! :-D
 
Nice spree
 
We've got our own problems here on SO
 
I am just curious how it became possible in the first place - that looks like exploiting yet another bug in SE's software on the first glance unless I am missing something
 
...how was that original deleted?
Sigh.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I have a suspicion that the user is trolling and no comments were removed.
 
10:32 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine You are missing the fact that you can write any nonsense you want in a comment.
 
that... is possible
sigh
 
Yeah
No reason to think anything was moved or deleted
They just spammed a link to a chat room
 
dang it, they actually got me a little excited about another exposed endpoint
 
@Lamu it wasn't question at all , it was a suggestion — Catherine Ivanova 4 mins ago
 
I think the mod endpoints on the main site are pretty well protected.
 
10:36 AM
Poor Larnu, forever condemned to their name being misspelled.
 
can you vouch for SE not making a change and breaking it in the process, @CodyGray?
 
Blame bad keming.
2
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I don't know how you'd add a security vulnerability by removing information and adding whitespace.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine In this case? Yeah, I think so. They don't update the mod tools. :-)
 
Oh, mod tools. That, then ^
 
10:38 AM
Remember that time they fixed a security vulnerability by double-encoding all toast notifications?
 
@RyanM pfff, just look at what "fixing the escaping" can do :)
 
I wonder if all of those have been found and fixed yet.
 
oh, ninja'd me
 
Better than the time they added an XSS attempting to fix smart quotes.
 
fun times :) I still can recall a feeling of my brow rising when /questions page executed a script upon being opened that day
 
10:40 AM
well, I heard someone can enjoy the mod tools on Teams.
 
That's a lie, nobody enjoys anything on Teams
 
speaking of the troll, it's actually pretty interesting to look at their activity: they were a normal contributor, then downvoted someone (badge), then suddenly posted a ton of those comments
 
@CodyGray Found maybe. Fixed: no
 
Oh dear.
 
> I am the programmer
 
10:41 AM
ffs [mre] doesn't work on MSO?
 
@RyanM Not a very magical place, unfortunately.
 
No, neither does [mcve]. Already tried it and failed just a few minutes ago.
 
But I do think more of the magic links should work.
 
I guess we don't want people posting MCVE/MREs on Meta?
 
huh, it doesn't
@VLAZ why? I was told it's where all the trolls live
 
10:44 AM
No, they live on main with the toxic people, downvoting and closing questions.
 
Well, [meta] doesn't work on Meta either!
 
Maybe the dual [main] should work for fairness.
 
ah, sorry, I forgot we are supposed to be a Gestapo division, my bad, @RyanM
 
Very few of the magic links do. I can't remember if links to other sites work, like [scifi.se] and similar
 
> @Ryan M you wrote "It should never be required to attach thousands of lines of code" I DISAGREE!
 
10:46 AM
Stuff like [edit] works, IIRC. Actions related to posts. But not many others.
 
well if it's in all caps it must be true.
 
oh, no. Now Dharman's been asked to ponder the question, @VLAZ
 
@Dharman " Who do you expect to read thousands line of code? " A PROGRAMMERS!! Are you a programmer? — Catherine Ivanova 1 min ago
Heh :D
 
all caps again so you know it's true.
 
@RyanM Ugh, is that the same person who was just arguing for this a day or so ago on Meta?
 
10:48 AM
But yeah - maybe I'm not a programmer because I don't want to read thousands of lines of code for what I am almost certain is reproducable in maybe 5.
 
@VLAZ plural bug, someone has to take out the GIANT S
 
@CodyGray Nope! Different one.
 
That one is going ugly.
 
10:49 AM
mod galore
 
Not enough mods there. Maybe we need to get Zoe and myself to comment?
 
Shine the mod signal in the sky!
 
meh, you are supposed to shine a fox in the sky
it's superhero 101
 
That also attracts non-mods
Like Nick
 
10:51 AM
well, that's the point! They provide cover
joking aside, I really have no idea what problem would require examining a 1000 LoC
provided the problem is not "we need to rewrite all of it"
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine The only thing I can think of is some sort of build tool choking on large inputs.
 
@RyanM and... why would that require examining that much code? It always chokes somewhere
 
Oh, I meant if the problem only happens with certain large inputs.
e.g., if it's suffering from exponential complexity or something.
You can get into some nasty situations with type inference.
 
so... feed it the large input, set the breakpoints around where it chokes and follow the cookie crumbles from there?
 
Set the breakpoints...in my build tool? What if it's closed-source?
 
10:56 AM
If the problem reproduces with any large-sized input, you don't actually need to provide the input to reproduce the problem.
 
And even if it's not, am I really expected to debug my compiler?
 
ARE YOU A PROGRAMMERS?
 
NO I AM WIZZARDS
 
@RyanM closed source nearly does not exist in my world, nearly forgot about that xD
 
Even in my daily work, when I see a file with 1000 lines of code I immediately lose interest in reading it. — Dharman ♦ 2 mins ago
Thanks for reminding me to get back to debugging this 14k LoC file.
 
10:59 AM
ok, let's be fair to it, it's not really 14K LoC
 
Step 1: strip out all the comments. Now you're down to only ~7k lines!
 

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