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1:38 AM
 
2:26 AM
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Q: Have tenacious badge but unsung hero badge not awarded

Shawn HemelstrandWas reviewing some of my answers today and noticed mention of the Unsung Hero badge. I looked it up and it seems I match the criterion (I unfortunately have many zero score answers :( wah wah) but I have only been given the Tenacious badge for whatever reason. I tried exploring why in these two p...

 
 
6 hours later…
8:15 AM
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Q: 7 years later - still we can't copy the source code. Why can't we be user-friendlier?

MattI have raised a feature request 7 years ago: Copy source to clipboard - can we make this user-friendlier? It is about copying source code to the clipboard by providing a button, like many other forums do it. Stack overflow is still missing it. Since then, nothing happened. May I ask why we can't ...

 
 
1 hour later…
9:15 AM
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Q: Which is the value of close votes without any feedback?

Daniele RicciI just open this question on stack overflow. In less than 10 minutes I've received a down vote and a close vote. Ok, if I did something wrong it's good to guide me to make my question a better question. But how can do it if I don't know what is wrong in my question? Let's make a very simple examp...

 
 
3 hours later…
12:33 PM
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Q: Make [search-box] a synonym of [search]?

LinoJust found this out while browsing Meta. There seems to be two tags that talk about the same feature: The on-site search. search For questions about search and advanced search features. https://meta.stackoverflow.com/tags/search/info search-box Use this tag for discussions and questions rela...

 
 
2 hours later…
2:27 PM
in case anyone missed - the inbox is live!
 
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Q: Why I can not ask questions in my stackoverflow account even after i edited all of my posts correctly?

Hakim LordI can not ask question in my stackoverflow account . My questions was for helping me I edited All of my question . stack over flow is like quora using bots for detecting . and of course after 8 years in quora and 5 millions views . because of a bot decided my answers is not good enough . bot mak...

 
huh, so it is. That was a quick change
 
2:43 PM
I've never seen a user with that consistently many typo questions
I closed around 5 questions
I think
 
0
Q: Make [iics] a synonym of [informatica-cloud]

WhatsThePointI just stumbled upon the iics which has no wiki or usage guidelines and is tagged in a whopping 19 questions. IICS is the abbreviation of Informatica Intelligent Cloud Services. The top two related tags are; informatica x 13 uses and informatica-cloud x 8 uses (which is for Informatica Intelli...

 
3:04 PM
great. it doesn't get rid of the red dot automatically anymore.
 
And something about it broke the rep notifications
 
 
4 hours later…
7:01 PM
People don't need roles. They need privileges and the power to do things. Over the years, many tried to suggest 30k privileges, or to enhance existing privileges to give users more power to do certain things. I'd rather see those things being done rather than super complex and super cryptic new "roles", which I honestly don't understand how it can work, but that's besides the point. — Shadow The Kid Wizard 11 hours ago
Sigh
sure, why tackle any complexity when we have a perfectly working privilege system? /s
 
i don't think the system we have is perfect, but i also don't understand how special roles would somehow solve it unless "roles" is just a weird name for what we currently call a gold badge holder
we don't need a tag curator; we need tools for existing users and mods to be able to more effectively curate tags, etc
 
it can be a stepping stone towards dealing away with the linear cumulative progression of reputation BS. You can't do privilege trees without roles.
it also goes towards granular privilege removal. We don't need to suspend a user over persistent mistakes during editing - just remove their editor role. Standard RBAC system
without that infrastructure we are permanently stuck with the "filled the site with semi-crap to get 2K? We trust you can edit without supervision" crap. If SE's willing to tackle it, hell, sign me up
 
7:23 PM
that still just sounds like a badge, effectively
 
a gold badge is a role, not the other way around :)
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine people have solidly eroded the trust in rep as a metric for moderation though
I'd rather see someone qualified (like Jeanne) get roles out of clear competence, rather than giving a 30k user with possibly no moderation experience or desire, for that matter, more tools
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine not enough, IMO. Too many are still clinging to that notion of "having lots of rep === being qualifed for anything"
 
let me put it this way... having a "role", like being a moderator, is more or less just a toggle. owning a badge is pretty much just a toggle, except it gets turned on/off automagically through scheduled tasks at se
 
Willingness is a solid problem too wrt. rep-related privileges
 
7:26 PM
calling it a "role" and giving it a special name, is... not a bad thing? though i fail to see how its a step in any direction
 
I don't see how industry-standard naming will hurt
 
or why it has to be part of creating new/improved curation tools
 
'cause it's a way of finally getting granular privileges. SE builds the infrastructure, they will be much more receptive to the idea of obsoleting the rep-based system of privilege. "Heck, it's already built, why not?"
 
it's not needed for that process to occur
it doesn't help us get there
If we wanted to, for example, move review-free editing away from a rep privilege, we're certainly not gonna move it to an appointed/elected role... it's going to be based on your past editing history
 
why not, though? They give us "Plagiarism handler", they have to build the infrastructure required to give privileges on-demand. Then we can request on-demand editors, VT[CD] handlers, etc. Before you know it, we have a proper RBAC
 
7:32 PM
it's dancing bologna
 
meaningless flair
it isn't necessary to achieve the goal
it's a side road that leads to the same end result with extra steps
 
I'd thought you to be the last person to expect straight ways with SE :)
 
i mean
 
my point here is that if it gets us where we need to be, heck, I am in
 
7:35 PM
What i expect from SE and what I think is the correct path are different things
I just see no use for these roles. They'd serve no more meaning than someone having a gold trophy badge from a collective
 
not sure I understand you - we are talking about real privileges being tied to those roles here, not just a flair
 
Give us the tools first
then decide how to distribute them
 
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Q: Was there a UI change that prevents inbox count from resetting when mailbox clicked without selecting message?

David C. RankinThis question is similar to Inbox notification counter doesn't go away anymore after clicking outside the window, but I didn't see the issue appear until today. Between yesterday and today (maybe day-before-yesterday), there looks to be a change in how the mailbox message count is reset that effe...

 
@KevinB now I am sure someone is forgetting how SE operates :)
 
The thing though, we already have plenty of tools
 
7:40 PM
just that most don't have access to them because rep bullcrap
 
The problem is that far too many users who actually care about moderation lack the rep to get extended, or even basic useful tools to continue
 
@NewPosts We really need a better information distribution method. The featured network post isn't visible enough for most people it seems.
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine absolutely
but how does roles solve that
how does appointing individual users scale to fit this need
do you have to be lucky enough to be noticed by a mod to gain the role?
we simply need better criteria for dispensing privilages
 
Because through a combination of automatic and manual roles, you can completely yeet reputation as a metric for moderation tools. Manual ones have far more power and prerequisites in a similar system (i.e. you need this and that number of actions). A proper application-based system has to be in place for those, probably at the discretion of the mod team wikipedia-style
 
sorry, @KevinB, but I really fail to grasp where does it say they will be "by appointment"? Some might be, and some can be granted via automated checks.
 
7:45 PM
if that's the case, we're just slapping a different name on our existing system
 
but we don't have that system. Privileges right now are just checks against reputation
 
part of the point, at least in a system similar to mine, the goal isn't to make roles special, but to spread them out to all the active curators, with focus on their respective fields of interest that inevitably appear on a site with multi-component moderation systems
 
they aren't even implemented as "this user has the 'trusted user' privilege" (which would be RBAC, and, indeed, "privilege" is just a fancy name for "role") as far as I am aware.
 
If you can decentralize all the tools not related to PII, you immediately get a far more capable group of curators capable of efficiently fighting against the eternal tide of trash
 
i don't see how that's any different than what we have
 
7:49 PM
Especially if coupled with continuous tooling improvements, which appears to be the direction SE is headed in
 
but what do we have, @KevinB?
 
We have curation tools that are unlocked based on critiera
you're a mod, you hold a gold tag badge, or you have a certain amount of rep. Now we'll have another criteria on top of that for you're a sub mod, effectively
it's just another toggle
 
yes, rep. We also have an eager user-base that struggles getting rep
 
a 1 or a 0
 
We have numerous people who could be doing efficient moderation in their respective interest areas, but are stuck either not doing it and using basic tools, or who have to go rep grinding instead
 
7:50 PM
call it what you will, but a role is a toggle indeed. More like a bitmask
 
hence, this is just flair
 
do you prefer to program in machine code?
everything else is just flair too
 
This just feels like "but it isn't doing everything so not good enough" argument, so I'm out
 
the opposite
it's doing nothing
 
I give up, I have no idea why you think roles are doing nothing.
 
7:56 PM
We have 1900 plagiarism flags sitting in the queue, because each flag represents anywhere from 5 minutes to entire days of work to clean out the rest of each flagged user. Decentralising plagiarism handling would massively improve the handling for several reasons, but the big one being that it helps deal with burnout. Imagine if we had 20 dedicated plagiarism handlers - even if they didn't constantly churn through users, that's 20 people just for fighting the problem, plus obviously mods
Which also decentralises the amount of work each user has to do, because they can just go "hey, I'm busy, can someone deal with the rest of this user? kthxbye" - mods technically can too, but we're few and strained on resources doing work in tons of other categories as well, so it doesn't happen in practice
 
I don't need 37 pieces of flair...
 
We have gold badgers - that's a role. We have diamond mods - that's a role too. What we don't have is any other type of role. We do not have "editors", for example: it's just a comparison operator against rep.
 
sorry if this is off-topic, but I'm still shocked that self-plagiarism is actually a real thing (already saw the related post on academia.SE if anyone wondered)
 
I can see creating teams of people to handle certain tasks that have a backlog, like the plaigarism
 
self-plagiarism is tricky, because it's not always obvious that you are self
 
7:58 PM
@NordineLotfi welcome to humanity :) It's actually a pretty common thing, unfortunately, especially in academia.
 
it's tricky to me because it shouldn't even be a thing, unless maybe inside academia, but even then it's still weird
 
@aynber Realistically, aside the proper mini-mod roles, there's probably no need for lots of flair. Roles can be visible somewhere slightly out of the way
well, I say proper mini-mod, I mean roles where the role implies high visibility
An event planner (which I still think is a dumb role and more like slavery with extra steps, but whatever) needs to be distinguished as an event planner for credibility in any context where they leverage their role
 
they can even retain their current name: privileges. Just make them proper roles that can be granted or removed regardless of rep levels, and we'll have a great workforce capable of dealing with the tide of crap we get daily.
 
I just don't understand why this needs to be a multi-month process just to make more toggleable privileges
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I actually proposed that too :p With only a few exceptions anyway, and some privileges left tied up to rep, and some were relatively questionable because I wrote it in like 1-2 hours and I used up my creativity on the other 12 points I wrote up
 
8:01 PM
sorry, the "37 pieces" was because I can't get Office Space out of my head with "flair" :-D
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine apparently, the term is, as usual, a US thing
 
@KevinB Welcome to large companies doing stuff
 
"event planner" sounds like it should be paid position, not a volunteer role
 
@aynber Yep, and that was bashed in the back as well
 
because it is, @aynber :) that's a real job, actually
not sure what it has to do with SE network, frankly
 
8:03 PM
it's a social network, so it needs events
 
I thought we were a dating app
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine dammit, I keep swiping left on this but it isn't going away
brb submitting bug report that the bad idea swiper isn't working
 
you're a mod, don't your bad question buttons always work
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I know, and I'm well aware of normal "plagiarism", but the actual concept of self-plagiarism is really weird to me. If I forget to mention a work I did, or purposefully do not talk about some offtopic but related stuff I did, that may be seen as self-plagiarism, but I don't get why this has to be a thing?
I mean if it's your own work/content, if it doesn't violate any licenses/etc, then it's 100% your own calling on what you do with it, no?
 
the problem is we don't know you're the author of the source we found on google that you copied from
 
8:16 PM
@ZoestandswithUkraine I think it works, it's just looping over to the same bad idea
 
then it's not really self-plagiarism, more like, you're not sure if it's the same person, so I guess a new word for this has to be made, because I don't think this fits
 
citation
 
if someone have the same exact name and last name as me but is a totally different person, then this isn't "me", so there is no self-plagiarism??
 
cite the sources whether they're yours or not
 
I don't mind citing others sources, but why is it as important to do it for your own content/work? Especially if there no responsibility (eg: licenses) that forces you to do so
 
8:19 PM
because the avg user isn't expected to look into who you are and who the remote author is
 
@NordineLotfi no, I mean literally self-plagiarism. It's very common in academia. Using parts of one's previous works verbatim without quoting is encountered often. The problem with it is that it is supposed to be original work, so if you are just copying over, that ain't it.
 
It's far less work on everyone for you to just post the info directly
 
I get that, especially on SO post where someone cite some tool or way to do something, but do not mentions it's their own stuff. But why would it be called self-plagiarism? it's just weird
 
Why we've made an exception here for articles I don't understand
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine right, I know that. My issue is with the actual word, not this (which is totally fair)
 
8:21 PM
Can't wait for community owned collectives to come in and wreck havok
 
@NordineLotfi I might've misread what you meant then - are you weirded out by the notion that one can plagiarise from oneself?
 
Yes
the meaning behind it make total sense, but the word just doesn't feel right here, is what I'm saying
 
well, kind of, self-plagiarism is just plagiarism, after all
 
I mean, plagiarism usually implies stealing other's work (without mentioning/respecting their wishes/etc), or copying. Sure you can copy your own past work and label it as new, but you can't steal your own work.
 
i mean
 
8:27 PM
eh, plagiarism is claiming you've done the work when you haven't (someone else did some other time). If you published a book and then published a supposedly new book that is just the same thing, it's still a violation of original work principle.
 
Self-plagiarism is generally only employed in academia
 
isn't it more about stealing from the work
not the person?
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine and in publishing
 
Yeah, I considered that a subset of academia in this context
 
8:28 PM
SO doesn't allow self-reposts of on-site answers, but does allow authors to copy their own content in or out, provided it's relevant of course
 
@KevinB if that was the case, we wouldn't use citations of authors/etc to prevent that I think
 
But that isn't slapped with the plagiarism label, that's just a general rule disallowing on-site duplicates
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine hmm, I'm not disagreeing with copying your own work, and republishing the same without mentions/citation is bad, I'm just saying I feel like it's maybe not the right term for this. I totally get It's the general consensus for it to be that though...still weird though
 
well, I mean, what else do you call it?
 
that's actually a good question. I have no idea :D
 
8:31 PM
I think they just picked a harsh term to discourage reuse, to avoid tons of self-duplicated content or something
in publishing, probably to keep trust, and income by extension
 
@NordineLotfi likely, neither has anyone :) and that ^^^
 
0
Q: Is it allowed to post syntax error problems?

KonradSeems like some users use stack overflow as debugging tool Example post: Unexpected Token at 54:11 - op asked the question with an error and few minutes after that added a comment with a different error. How can posts like that be useful to anyone? Can we close and delete posts like "I have a syn...

 
@ZoestandswithUkraine yeah, the official term is "credibility". You self-plagiarise, you lose it in any decent scientific society / higher-ed institution
 
@ZoestandswithUkraine I wouldn't call it harsh, maybe the kind of word that makes you question yourself and back away a bit? Maybe "cringe" would be the right feeling for me here, but yeah
@OlegValteriswithUkraine yeah, it's certainly working at least, that's for sure
 
Harsh is the wrong word; I meant strong
 
8:34 PM
right, that does sound better
 
8:54 PM
so
someone commented on my answer, i replied to it
Why is it unread in my inbox
i've literally read it
 
was the previous behavior different, btw?
 
don't recall
 
click on "Mark as read"? It doesn't seem to read automatically all the time
 
@KevinB had the same exact thing happen, multiple times per week
 
@KevinB might be worth a feature request
although it's one hell of a request given that to be implemented properly, it likely needs an intersection observer
 

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