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user3956566
2:00 PM
yeh that's what I thought
 
When you plan a project with 10 people instead of 1, it might indeed be significantly faster
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak what about Cainism?
 
@YvetteColomb Apparently there have been cases of 9 where some were live births... unfortunately none lived long though
 
user3956566
oh someone commented on one of my posts and I'm riled up. I'm going to ignore it.
 
user3956566
@NickA it's hard enough keeping one baby from a pregnancy healthy. All my babies were premature
 
user3956566
2:03 PM
I can't imagine how a pregnancy with so many babies would be on the babies
 
user3956566
hard
 
Pretty crowded i'd imagine
 
-1
Q: ACM SSL certificate not working

GLADIATORUsing AWS ACM I generated the SSL certificate, in AWS Console I am able to see the certificate but when I am trying to list the certificate using AWS CLI (aws acm list-certificates) I am getting an empty array like below. { "CertificateSummaryList": [] } Then I tried to attach this SSL cer...

 
ngn
@YvetteColomb wise
 
user3956566
I'm going to delete some of my peripheral accounts on the network. Clearly there's inadequate moderation and I don't like being piled on
 
user3956566
2:10 PM
same if it continues on here. I'm packing up and going home.
 
@YvetteColomb Say hi to the horses for us :P
 
:(
 
offers Yvette popcorn
 
@YvetteColomb But who will supply us with top shelf horse pictures and horse related puns?
 
user3956566
I offered the CMs to have my diamond on here reinstated and there's nothing. In the meantime I'm fending off pile-on on both meta sites.
 
user3956566
2:11 PM
It's the one thing I cannot stand on these sites. It breaks the best of us
 
@YvetteColomb They're probably snowed in under 9001 tickets.
Give it some time. Also, if you do get your diamond back, I must know asap so I can prepare a couple hundred welcome-back flags :D
 
user3956566
I honestly doubt they will reinstate it. I feel used up and spat out by this network tbh
 
Then why would you even want it back?
 
@RickvanOsta Because she cares
 
You don't have to do it for us. You made valid points for wanting to stop in the video. Put yourself first. Especially if you still feel sick
4
 
user3956566
2:15 PM
@ErikA I've been sick for years. I have an incurable illness that tries to kill me from time to time.
 
user3956566
@NickA exactly. I have affection for a lot of people on here.
 
You don't need a diamond to interact with people
 
I imagine it's the same reason a lot of us are still here at all
 
Well, I don't know your medical history, but I do know stress is rarely good for these things, and being a SO moderator is stressful even without the current issues I imagine
 
user3956566
@RickvanOsta honestly - I'm trying really hard not to be sarcastic. As I realise this. that is not the reason for wanting the diamond. It's to help moderate the place.
 
2:18 PM
@YvetteColomb Being a moderator helps with moderating? 🤔
 
user3956566
@ErikA life is full of stress. I was on a complete break from the site. I was contacted by people on the site to let me know what was going on. It's taken up many hours of every day. Now I'm just frustrated that I'm spending so much darn time on the site, not having a break and cannot even handle flags.
 
@YvetteColomb all the more reason to take care of yourself
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak true
 
user3956566
In many ways I wish I didn't know about this debacle. But it's not realistic to expect that people will not tell me really
 
user3956566
@RickvanOsta please, just stop.
 
2:20 PM
I would not-tell you
 
user3956566
@RickvanOsta These comments are now becoming personal and I don't like them
 
@YvetteColomb something something a mob's IQ is asymptotic to the square root of the average of all the members
 
user3956566
@AndrasDeak yep, out of consideration - but I also cannot blame these other people.
 
Of course
 
user3956566
@Mgetz yep agree. MSE is concerning - being a couple of mods down.
 
2:22 PM
@YvetteColomb I don't think it was meant agressively. I think it was an encouragement to take the break you deserve :-)
 
If you do get your diamond, it's a great just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in moment though :)
 
@NickA Yep, there was even a show about it - Octomom
 
@YvetteColomb I didn't mean to offend you, I'm sorry if i did. @Druckles got the message though
 
@BoltClock just saw the removal of featured, again. Maybe there's a real reason why the thread is exploding and removing featured is like attempting to bury something that is very much alive. Maybe there's a better way forward
 
Having all 4 featured posts be dumpster fires does not help much.
 
2:28 PM
Keeps us warm.
 
@Raedwald I agree, but having 0 posts that are pretty important featured feels... well, detrimental and harmful
 
TBH I would not mind all metas being frozen for, say 24 hours after the company's response. Prevent low-effort agitators from stirring the pot so easily.
(Hypothetically) the people who actually have something to say would have the patience to wait to say it.
 
1 message moved to Trash can
 
As long as the reasoning and end-date for a freeze like that are made very clear, I don't think it could do much harm, and would do some good.
 
how would you know if it did, since nobody could post to meta? :P
 
2:35 PM
They could post 24 hrs later?
Sorry am tired may not have understood the question.
 
The posts were defeatured because at this point they’re distracting from actually getting comms out. The more the limited moderator and SE staff have to deal with the fallout of having the resignations of two moderators blasted on a top fifty site on the internet, the less time they have to actually put together a response for those of us that want one.
 
I think the argument is stronger without the 'top 50 site' nonsense
2
 
@GeorgeStocker how would you feel about hot meta stuff being limited to logged-in users or meta participants? That would reduce visibility to the world at large while allowing the rest of us to keep informed.
 
anonymous web traffic doesn't leave votes or comments or answers, especially on Meta
 
ngn
@Brandon_J any company response now is bound to cause some stir. i think banning meta would would just push people elsewhere and cause more frustration.
 
2:39 PM
@TylerH I’m speaking of IRL problems, not meta-zens
 
@TylerH Isn't it more about airing dirty laundry to the greater internet?
 
@canon I don't think the click through rate is that high
 
Not to mention outsiders don’t understand that for some reason that passes understanding internal politics of a site are some how on the front page of that site. That would be very confusing if you didn’t understand how SO works.
 
of the million(s?) of visitors each day, how many click on featured meta posts?
 
@TylerH Maybe so, but those headlines will get cached, scraped, seen, etc... by potentially a lot of people who don't necessarily have the context or understanding for some of those titles.
 
2:42 PM
@SébastienRenauld Nothing I say will make anyone believe me
Nothing
Bloody oath
 
@canon No one except moderators really have the context anyway
 
That's all I'll say. Just bloody oath. Not directed at anyone, but the whole situation
 
I am letting you know in an effort to be transparent. This isn’t a discussion point or a changeable decision. At best haranguing would be akin to putting up a sign that says “telling people our reasoning was a bad idea, let’s stop doing that”
 
And I'm not disagreeing with the decision to remove the tags, I'm just saying I think the 'top 50 sites' bit makes it look like they're grasping at straws for legitimacy, in my opinion
 
I will say that it did seem worth featuring at the time because moderators stepped down
 
2:43 PM
@TylerH I mean the base context/understanding for what meta is and the relationship between users, moderators, and the company.
 
Even if SO only got 500 views a day, the argument for removing the tags should be the same.
 
It's the ensuing attention, speculation, hand-wringing, FUD, etc and all the other things that have happened that have left the CMs and me (and I suspect other SO mods) a mess
2
I took yesterday off knowing things were snowballing
I regret not taking today off
I've already
added an edit summary
And people still think it's not enough
@BoltClock regarding your recent edit, please consider adding a comment explaining it. Although I think I understand what you meant, some users may be confused by edit summary talking about "some space" because community bulletin area seems to have enough space to accommodate posts you un-featured (I just checked) — gnat 3 mins ago
Christ what do you all want from me
 
@BoltClock go take another personal day, your health is important
3
 
What do you all want from me
 
It was a good edit summary
 
2:45 PM
What
 
@BoltClock I want to take that bolt out of that clock, it's getting in the way of the hour hand
 
I saw that this room was frozen. You wanna know why it got frozen? Well I just explained it
 
I guess they've just missed the summary, forgot to click it, because it's a good move and the summary properly explains it
 
@BoltClock we don't want you having a breakdown. Take some time if you need it.
 
@ErikA No, gnat's comment showed that he read it but he's concerned "some space" is unclear
I think it's clear enough
 
2:46 PM
@BoltClock He may have been... "taking the piss"?
 
@meagar I'm only chalking it up to that because it's gnat
 
> it's time we gave the CMs, and ourselves, some space
2
 
But he wasn't the only one who's asked. And I realized more people than him will be concerned
 
It seems clear enough to me.
 
It's pretty hard to confuse that with like... physical screen real-estate :|
 
2:47 PM
I wanted to talk Mark Amery round just now, I couldn't muster a single word except
 
Do whatever you need to for your own health/sanity. Right now there's nothing you can do to make the people boiling over with rage happy
 
We are all human here. Even moderators. We all have our own thoughts on this; but we are trying to keep some semblance of orderliness so that we can say community moderation is not a complete and total failure
 
So glad Shog stepped in
 
Honestly, I have an immense amount of respect for all mods that remain active throughout this. It must be a lot of work
2
 
@TylerH at this rate I'm gonna need the whole month off. Which is unfair to everyone because I already took 5
 
2:49 PM
@ErikA you have no idea. I know for a fact that several moderators did nothing IRL but watch for problem spots on the SO network for 18 hours a day.
Since the weekend
 
They’ve had enough
 
@BoltClock whatever it takes. Focus on Inktober :-)
 
I was sick and up anyway so I had some cycles to spare but others didn’t.
 
@TylerH I've still yet to release a statement and people think I'm quitting too
 
@BoltClock I think a few people have had that cleared up (e.g. the Room 17 discord, et al)
 
2:53 PM
That's the pattern these days :(. No details? ASSUME THE WORST!
 
@Brandon_J it's kind of the pattern shown, so it's kinda logical that that's what needs to be assumed
 
Whether that's the pattern is, of course, debatable. But regardless of pattern, I'm personally inclined to not assume the worst, at least when it doesn't involve, say, potential physical harm.
 
@Brandon_J I always try to assume the best. But sometimes as things become clearer, some better outcomes show up than I previously thought possible. And things do need to become clearer still.
 
Agreed
 
3:04 PM
and by clarified, I mean by the company. And people are worried that won't happen.
 
Honestly, It's all grey here to me. What's better to assume, that SE has made a grave mistake or that we have moderators quitting over something trivial...
 
@ErikA the former seems way more likely, and potentially fixable
 
@JohnDvorak Is it though? How much faith do you really have in SE (the company) at the moment? This is just the latest WTF moment in several consecutive years of decline. Even if they cow to pressure and reinstate Monica today, that wouldn't exactly fix the relationship.
 
@ErikA I don't remember who it was that said that if moderators, the people whose character they trust the most, are stepping down then something is very, very wrong
6
 
@canon Best case scenario, and I'd like to make it possible to happen
 
3:08 PM
@JohnDvorak Hope springs eternal.
 
bits of both I think. If Monica (and several others) couldn't reach an accommodation with the upcoming CoC changes their leaving was inevitable. Intentional or not the way her departure was handled was more provocative than necessary.
 
@canon I've said that enough times. Reinstating her quietly isn't gonna solve problems. This is not about diamonds but about the company's behavior towards us
 
IMO best case scenario is that there's been a misunderstanding.
 
Agreed, re-instating Monica out of pressure because of the outrage fixes nothing
 
Has an official communique been released yet?
 
3:10 PM
@Brandon_J Are you sure?
 
No
 
booo
 
And I truly doubt if she would even want to be reinstated at this point
 
o/
 
@canon Could be the action of one employee that the company didn't know about and now is scrambling to patch. Ineptitude at communication, plenty of evidence. Absolute disregard for community, I think not. Actual malice? I'll go with negative.
 
3:10 PM
SE does seem to have some issues with communication. The way the CoC changes were communicated seem to be heavy handed at best. Plus, one would think the moderators would have a place to discuss things for a probable FAQ as well.
 
@Brandon_J There were no misunderstandings, everything was clear
 
0
Q: Can MathJax be enabled on Stack Overflow for teams?

AmadeI am not able to use MathJax on Stack Overflow for Teams. Can it somehow be enabled? I am using the 'Basic' version. If it cannot be enabled right now, is it a planned feature of SO for Teams?

 
@weegee ehhhhh, at this point nothing's very clear.
2
 
@rjzii That's the story for every company.
 
at least for the non-mods among us that don't know what happened
 
3:11 PM
@JohnDvorak I think if they were going to course-correct they would have done it by now. I fully expect them to employ the familiar strategy of the past few years: dig in heels and ride it out.
 
How much time do you suggest we give the company until it's safe to assume they refuse to communicate?
 
@rjzii The new CoC has not been communicated well because this debacle has publicised that there is to be a new CoC before SE were ready to publish it.
 
@weegee Indeed, but firing volunteers for things that take place behind closed doors always looks bad. Even more so when the issues were pretty much addressable and SE ended up having some antisemitic overtones as well.
 
@JohnDvorak it's passed.
 
That's a funny combination of metaphors :D
 
3:12 PM
I'm hoping no malice was involved; but since Monica wasn't the only mod who appeared to be unable to agree to the new terms (eg the statement from a mod on Christianity) but she was the only one fired. That has me seriously wondering if someone decided to make an example of her.
 
@JohnDvorak I don't know
 
till they respond or move on, of course
 
@rjzii Which is only the issue. Communication in these times is crucial and their every word is being heard closely. It can be two things
 
On monday SE said they'd probably respond in the next day or two. I'm willing to give them all of today, and probably tomorrow before deciding they're deliberately stonewalling
 
@DanNeely I suspect that the director was just aware of Monica. If the other mod had spoken up I would have been surprised if they were stacked as well.
 
3:13 PM
I don't expect the statement they'll be releasing today to answer very much other than "we dun fudged up"
 
i'm not expecting an apology or admission of being wrong
 
@JohnDvorak They said that they are expecting to communicate today or yesterday. I'm honestly willing to wait several days for an official communication.
(of course, I'm in the minority on that)
 
yesterday, by George Stocker
I reached out this morning and asked if/when SE inc would be issuing some communication and i was told tomorrow or the next day but probably not today. (This is not a binding response). We want there to be communication too; but our role is to pass along problems the community airs and maintain order
 
Their form letter was their response. Are you expecting someone to come in and overrule the director of Q&A? Or do you mean something specifically addressing Monica?
 
I choose the waiting strategy. Either things go for the better, or they go for the worse. If things go down a landslide, I'd still prefer to end up above the pile of rubble. And I really don't want to ruin any chance of reconciliation there might be.
 
3:15 PM
As far as I'm aware - the plan is currently "later today"... but no idea what that's going to say... but the company is working on something...
 
Given that their response will likely define the future of SE, I'm OK with them taking their time.
 
@canon Why not?
 
@canon Something specifically addressing the handling of Monica's situation. I think it'll be from the CMs, but I'm not sure
 
@rjzii From comments I've seen else where she wasn't the only one with problems objecting in TL (or even the one with the most problems). It's possible SE wasn't paying enough attention and thought she was the only one; but maybe not...
 
I've seen directors get over ridden before. Heck, remember the whole issue with the Python conference a couple years ago?
 
3:16 PM
I don't expect it to satisfy much, that's all I'll say
 
@BoltClock ah
 
@BoltClock D: don't tell me that.
I wrote that meta post so hopefully.
but thanks for the heads-up.
 
@BoltClock well... there goes my hope
 
An assumption of those who want a response from SE sooner rather than later is that all they need to do is write and publish a statement. But what if a proper response requires them to publish the new CoC? And what if enforcing the new CoC requires technical changes? Then things are not so simple.
 
I expect it will be some meandering statement about tolerance, harmony, moving forward together, etc... and no real substance. Bets? :P
 
3:19 PM
@canon I'll bite. 90%.
 
💯
 
Hope often loses bets, so I'm not betting.
 
hah
 
What I mean is don't hold your breath on a 180 or some miraculous resolution, because the situation as it is is still [head hurts too much for me to think of a good word right now]
 
What if the CoC is installed before we get a response?
 
3:19 PM
A 180 would be nice, yes
 
@BoltClock delicate?
 
Maybe
 
political
 
heated
 
Delicate feels too... delicate lol
 
3:20 PM
Well, if it does in fact require that people write using preferred pronouns then there has to be a technical update to the network.
Otherwise how can you possibly begin to enforce anything?
 
Easy.
 
yeah
 
That raises all sorts of problems though for the international community and other languages, plus non-native speakers of English.
 
I'd much prefer if they wanted people to actually show respect to each other...
 
I don't think that the network needs to have more information to sell for advertising.
 
3:21 PM
If someone says "I'd prefer to be referred to as <whatever>" you either do, or you disengage with no further communication. As a mod you could be reprimanded for that, but as an end user you have every right to step away.
 
@JohnDvorak That was the old Be Nice policy. They concluded it did not work well enough.
 
We (network mods) don't know when the CoC changes are going to be enacted, so please don't ask us
 
@KevinB That's not the issue - if you know that then it's just a matter of your writing.
 
On the subject of pronouns, can we all agree that naming a monster demon in the form of a clown "it" is a recipe for serious communication errors?
 
We're asking them
 
3:22 PM
So, someone can demand to be referred to by a specific pronoun instead of their name... and you'd have to comply or disengage?
 
@BoltClock hey, do you know when the CoC changes will be enacted? ;)
 
Heck, I'm an academic, we are trained to use gender-neutral writing these days so it's really not that big of a deal.
 
Am I allowed to refer to a company as an "IT" (all caps)?
 
@canon we can't know for sure, yet
 
The bigger technical question would be if they are going to do things like add a mandatory field to profiles and require people to disclose.
 
3:23 PM
yesterday, by George Stocker
Debating the pronoun issue is off topic here and will be squashed. We don’t have a CoC to point to for anyone to debate vis a vis pronouns so its useless to debate that. If you want to talk about the firing, resignations, or anything else, great. But don’t veer into a conversation about the pronoun debate. I wish we could but it’s already gotten out of hand twice in one day when we did.
 
@JohnDvorak too much like a Wrinkle in Time?
 
What a weird way to impede free speech.
 
@Raedwald including the current CoC draft does not require enforcing it right away...
 
@Raedwald sorry
 
@canon depends on the actual language of the new CoC. current has no language regarding that.
 
3:25 PM
@Raedwald thx for reminding us.
the real issue here is what we're gonna do about the amateur nouns. Who cares about the professional nouns? They can do what they want.
*anxiously hoping I lightened the mood*
 
It's a joke we've made
 
@canon "free speech" isn't really an argument here. respect is, but it's been pretty one sided.
 
@BoltClock welp
there was an attempt.
 
No such thing as "free speech" on the internet.
 
Not saying it's any less funny now
 
3:29 PM
I mean it kind of is
 
IANAL, but if SE wants dictate policy to the users they can. It's the "living room" principle of the internet.
 
guys, let's please not go into this discussion right now
 
They can. Doesn't mean they won't hurt themselves that way.
 
The new CEO might think that they have enough critical mass that's a non-issue.
 
I am happy to shut down debate on hypotheticals. There’s going to be enough debate if / when there’s actually a CoC change to debate. We don’t need to do it now.
 
3:32 PM
the masses around here are definitely critical
 
disengaging
 
Yeah, the best time to talk about things is after they're already written in stone. ;) I'll comply, though.
 
let's not freeze this room again
 
@GeorgeStocker I think we've moved on from the CoC and are steering towards the longstanding communication issues with SE in general.
 
nah, let's be honest. We were talking about the CoC, and we need to stop.
 
3:33 PM
I suppose it's still okay to hypothesize on Discord?
 
Why wouldn't it be?
 
^^
 
Has there been an update to this article recently: webcitation.org/6NeNOY5oR
 
(not that I want to participate in fruitless unfun guesswork)
 
Because everyone seems to wish this would all just stop.
 
3:34 PM
I’m all about healthy debate. Given what’s happened the last two times people tried to debate an as of yet undefined CoC change in here, we are less than enthused over a possible third time before the change is actually published.
 
Agreed, let's stop
 
They're allowed to discuss this topic on meta.SE, why not here?
 
Maybe they were better behaved in their discussion?
 
probably because chat is a pain to moderate
 
We're allowed to chat here. Why not on meta?
Rules can change based on environment.
 
3:35 PM
OK, fine my health comes first. See y'all on the flip side
 
Chat is hard to moderate. :/ I wish they would improve tools for moderation on chat, but I recognize we are lucky that chat hasn’t been shut down entirely
 
it's simply harder to hide disagreement here.
 
(Not for any reason related to current events, just in general)
 
@KevinB No it's not!!!! How dare u say dat?
Oh, I see your point.
 
So to change the subject, a couple years ago an article was published about developer interactions on SO (link: webcitation.org/6NeNOY5oR). Has anyone done an update to that in the past couple years?
 
3:36 PM
@GeorgeStocker What do you mean, chat is a WIP :P
So much of a WIP those context links still don't work
 
Shutting down chat would destroy the Charcoal project, with disastrous results for the network.
 
With my business hat on, it’s a non trivial amount of upkeep for no (current) revenue gain.
 
not to mention all the other bots
 
@JohnDvorak they could lock everybody but smokey out
 
@rjzii I'm uninformed on the subject.
 
3:37 PM
it's not undoable
 
@JohnDvorak Actually, that reminds me, how do they keep the spam bots at bay?
 
@GeorgeStocker Well now that a new CEO is here, we may get some dev time spent on chat...
 
@Mgetz I don't think Charcoal members would be willing to participate in that situation - and if technical issues arose, they'd be unable to resolve them.
 
at least this CEO hasn't come out and said chat is stupid like the last one
 
@GeorgeStocker except that it may keep some users interested in the network during lulls of Q&A engagement. Chat sort of adds a social layer.
 
3:38 PM
@Brandon_J Hmm, I might have to do some lit review, but I'm tempted to write an update to the article.
 
@TylerH .... yet ...
 
/afk, family matters
 
@JohnDvorak again they can permission chat rooms such that they could make it work. Whether or not the members of the charcoal team would willingly assist is a different issue.
 
@JohnDvorak say Hi to them from me
 
@rene key word
 
3:39 PM
@GeorgeStocker I'm fairly certain chat keeps many individuals engaged with SE, especially on smaller sites.
 
@rene everyone knows the flower
 
correct
 
@Brandon_J That. Puzzling wouldn't work without chat.
 
@JohnDvorak PSE was actually the one I had in mind lol
 
CGCC would just migrate to a homebrew system
 
3:41 PM
and it's merely the best site on the network.
 
@GeorgeStocker Yes, that's kind of what I had in mind with regards to an update to that manuscript.
 
A thought - at what point (in general, not specific to any SE scenario) does one have too much optimism? When does it become harmful?
 
It's been about six years since it came out. So it would be interesting to see if the same trends are in place. Plus since of the tools are better so a network analysis could be done to see if users migrate between tags or not.
 
I'm wondering how close I fall to that line.
 
3:43 PM
@Brandon_J It depends?
 
ofc
 
Being overoptimistic about, say, financial matters can be a much better concern than a general "everything will work out."
 
Hmm, this is broad. Let's focus on the general "everything will work out."
 
@JohnDvorak what is CGCC? The C compiler?
 
charcoal something?
 
3:45 PM
CGCC = PPCG
 
IN the general sense, I seem to recall reading that people that are optimistic tend to be less prone to depression and generally are a bit healthier.
 
@Brandon_J I probably help more people in chat than I do on the site because it's less painful
 
@JohnDvorak code golf?
 
yes
 
ah
 
3:48 PM
@Mgetz The GIS community has mentioned that Reddit is a better community than the SE site since the SE site is solely focused on technical Q&A.
 
Did you hear about the golfer who graphed (x*(x-1))/(x-1)? He got a hole in one.
 
🚽
 
@Brandon_J error: unmatched parentheses
 
aargh
 
@rjzii for C++ it's because the whole thing can be more informative to the user than the strict requirements for the site.
 
3:49 PM
Brains aside, I wonder how many poorly-written xkcd.com-parsing scripts will break on this title (or ;;"''{<<[' this mouseover text."
2
 
@Mgetz Right. I seem to recall way back in the private beta days that one of the things that people really liked about SO was that it was focused on technical Q&A. A lot of us had local user groups and the like for the community aspect. SO was more for questions that were outside the scope of what we normally saw.
2
 
@rjzii whereas now it's for various and sundry and for TAs that don't want to do their job. Because why have user groups or community when you can just say "Go to SO"
 
It's a sad thing.
 
@Mgetz I actually barely even use SO any more. More often than not the problem is either really obscure, or I end-up writing the Q&A myself as part of the old "developers notebook" that Joel talked about.
 
@Brandon_J )
ah, I feel better now c:
 
3:54 PM
@Zoethetransgirl hehe
 
@rjzii I have asked a total of three questions IIRC, one of which would have been closed as 'too isolated' back in the day. As in the beginning a requirement was that the question was applicable to everybody
 
Indeed, I remember that time. Remember all of the "As a developer...?" questions? :D
 
@Mgetz I think I've asked 3 questions over maybe 9 years. Between research and experimentation, there's hardly ever a need. Well, given the mature technologies I tend to use.
 
I have asked a total of two question outside of codegolf. One was a self-answered species-id on biology, and one was a code review.
 
I asked 8 questions
1 has been deleted
 
4:02 PM
I still kind of wish that SO had gone the way of Wikipedia with a non-profit model as opposed to the corporate model. Or maybe gotten spun off and supported somehow.
 
@rjzii I wish it had bootstrapped so that it could stay independent and viable on its own.
I understand why they chose not to.
I just wish they had.
Wikipedia is a fundraising drive from not existing and stack overflow focuses on programmers, who are notorious for not wanting to pay for something they could create in a weekend
 
Selling yourself is always a great unknown.
 
At least on principle
 
@GeorgeStocker Sure, but I think they might have figured out a way to get people spend a bit of money. Did did a really good job getting people to volunteer their time.
 
@GeorgeStocker This is true. We had a bitter debate in the office about buying a library to handle barcode decoding and encoding for us, and half my coworkers argued it would be easier to write it ourselves then have the company pay the I think its a hundred bucks for a lifetime license
 
4:06 PM
@Magisch That's just called job security. :D
 
@Magisch developers have no idea how expensive their time is and how much the opportunity cost affects the business they serve
 
@rjzii Well, that and you control the codebase. There's immense value in that.
 
The hour or so we spent discussing it cost the company more then 500 bucks between all of us :D
 
Barcode decoding, really? The hardest part is CV. The rest is bit-munching.
 
Imagine if you had written it, had to support it, and then support QR codes when they came out with it.
 
4:08 PM
@Magisch As I moved from JR to SR levels I started actually using that in meetings - "If we spend X amount of time on this problem we cost Y, which is less than the Z that just buying the tool would cost."
 
cya guys later; wish me luck on my calc test
 
Ah, QR codes would be a bit more fun to bit-munch than 1D barcodes
 
Good luck
 
and quite a bit more fun to align to grid
 
sure barcode decoding is just bit munching but someone would have to make a list and code for all the variants we use at work, whilst the library means passing a parameter to a method and getting a pre-parsed sanitized content out in one go
 
4:09 PM
@Brandon_J good luck, don't forget the + c
 
An integral part of calculus :) and thanks
 
I'm pretty sure I would take at least a week to figure out a way to hand make a working datamatrix decoder to production level from scratch
 
And that's what you tell the bean counters. Research time * wages = cost
 
@Magisch Double that to account for shrink in your time due to being in the office and then double that again to make it a proper engineering estimate.
 
And double that twice more because the bean counters are already privy to your doubling tricks and will compensate for them.
 
4:13 PM
I'd pay for SE premium if it meant I could turn off my adblocker without getting spammed
but i'm one of the deplorables that actually paid for winrar once before switching to 7zip :p
 
Apparently SE also had a policy change to allow animated ads. :/
 
They've had that for ages
 
I think the new baseline they wont go below is the better advertising bureau standards
so no unclosable interstitial ads no autoplay video with sound, etc.
 
I'll respond here as I have elsewhere. Animated ads will continue to be a part of the experiment. We carefully watch these before they roll out to the network but some do get by. There are limitations on the kinds of controls that advertiser networks provide and we are doing a lot of this in-house. Asking users to report what they see is usually step #3 in a process that starts with heavy regulations on these ad types. Because we require so much care, many networks are not willing to sign up with us - and we're fine with that! Again, we're seeking for benefit on all sides of the table. — Juan M ♦ Jun 25 at 21:28
 
@Zoethetransgirl Really? I got the impression that this was new?
 
4:16 PM
new-ish. June
 
Ah! I see, I think the policy is now official across the board now.
 
Just more grist for the mill.
 
throws popcorn at Zoe
 
This is where I ended up finding out about it - meta.stackexchange.com/questions/334132/…
Apparently I've been out of the loop.
 
advertising is an eternal conflict for user's attention. These days we've been so oversaturated that ads that aren't directly in our face, more or less impossible to ignore, just blend into the background noise. If you're not using an adblocker, that is.
 
4:19 PM
@NickA <3
 
So the demand is higher for more intrusive ads like popovers, interstitial ads, autoplay video. Basically loud, obnoxious, hard to ignore, visually attractive or nuisances. That's the ads that will still get decent pay rates
 
Advertising also reinforces a lot of cultural biases as well.
 
I wouldn't know, I barely see any ads these days. I'm pretty aggressive with blocking
2
 
It's not just online, but print, billboards, and television.
Arguably movies as well, but that one is a bit trickier to argue since product placement may or may not dictate the artistic vision in the movie.
 
I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a billboard. There aren't many here and the area I live and work in is very rural. I don't really watch movies and block every ad I get a whiff of. Websites that forbid adblockers get their blocker-blockers bypassed or not used at all. I'm almost allergic to advertising
 
4:37 PM
same
I'm a pretty high-string person; very anxious. Seeing ads everywhere, having companies shove their products in my face all day long just makes my anxiety worse, so I do everything in my power to avoid them, including paying for services to disable ads on that site (youtube)
 
@Magisch I pulled up an SE site one day and it had an ad for a bra. With tons of arrows pointing at it. Seems to have been a one-off but still...
 
Overlord google apparently thinks you want to buy undergarments
 
exactly.
 
One-off, or 100%-off?
 
@rjzii how about movies that are product placement? see the entire Lego franchise
 
4:48 PM
@Michael I think that makes the LEGO movies really entertaining advertising. Same with the video games.
 
@Michael Except Lego Friends. Which was mostly devoid of Legos in the first iteration and is now entirely bereft of their sponsor's iconic bricks
In fact, Lego is now making lots of streaming series that have no Legos in them. See Lego Elves
 
@rjzii I think being self-aware can make a huge difference, Lego does that very well. (you are now a fully trained behaviour economist, go forth into the world and sell worthless junk to gullible people who can't afford it)
 
0
Q: Custom Flag Deleted Without Explanation - Why?

AdrianFirst and foremost: I'm not trying to be in any way 'narky' about this - just looking for information and/or guidance. Second: I recently posted this (incorrectly) as an 'answer' to a very similar question! I got over that, so here I am (again), looking for guidance (gentle preferred, any accept...

 
5:03 PM
I never dont use an ad block because all ads are toxic
also, ublock origin allows me to block paywall elements so that i can see content regardless of most paywalls
 
Websites need to make money, though. I've disabled it for a select number of websites I trust. SO used to be one of those...
 
@ErikA There are some websites that detect your ad blocker and requests you to disable it for their good
 
@ErikA You trust websites? That sounds dangerous
 
Trusting is always dangerous. I do it nonetheless
 
When the sypvertizing industry made it clear a few years ago that they were never acting in good faith with the do not track flag I treated it as a declaration of war and went from only manually selecting particularly annoying things to block to enabling 3rd party blocklist feeds and blocking everything indiscriminantly
 
5:07 PM
..... fair point
 
They nuked their bridge, the radioactive hellscape between us that I refuse to cross is their doing and they can live or die by it
 
@ErikA if I could trust sites to not allow malicious ads, I might care
 
0
Q: Possible phishing?

Jim GarrisonJust received this email "from" Stack Overflow: Relevant Headers: Received: from o16824532x199.outbound-mail.sendgrid.net (o16824532x199.outbound-mail.sendgrid.net [168.245.32.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested...

 
5:21 PM
stackoverflow is a phish
 
@ndugger phish?
 
basically, but with more outrage
 
Ah, you meant this phish
 
better
 
-3
Q: Should you alter layout of legacy code to match the company coding standard?

Guilherme LimaOr is it better to leave it in the author’s original style? Why?

 

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