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12:27 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
It would be better if you noted that the "roughly 89% of the meta-community" concerns those who voiced the opinion by voting. That said, I would love to see the total percent in support of the feature (something tells me it is low, but one never knows...) — Oleg Valter 48 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user9716869
@OlegValter This is exactly why I stated "roughly" (or approximately). Indeed, abstention can be dealt with differently. However, a reasonably standard procedure is not to take into account the abstentions. — user9716869 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@Marco13 - I agree, one of my main points is that when you have a community of people who solve problems it would be a waste not to leverage the feedback they might give you as much as possible. That said, I have become worried that the explanation for the mess with the feature lies in someone wanting a feature that already proved to be "successful" on other platforms and then justifying this existence with research that is biased towards it (and the irony is that if the methodology was published [ and ideally before the implementation ] I could be convinced otherwise...) — Oleg Valter 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ahmed Abdelhameed
Great flowchart! I just would like to add to the "associate your name" part that the name won't be clearly visible to other users (not on the post's page, or in a notification) and will probably be unnoticed by the other users (including the one being "thanked"). — Ahmed Abdelhameed 1 min ago
 
12:59 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by charlietfl
Kudos for the "certain observers" caveat. The prayer emoji looks like two hockey sticks to me. — charlietfl 50 secs ago
 
1:15 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
Don't argue with you - just pointed that in this form it is easier to refute. That said, I think the results would not change much, of course. — Oleg Valter 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@MrUpsidown - well, I guess I worded it very poorly... I meant this is how it is referenced in API-specific pages: Calendar API, for example. That said, I also understand that this it is named as you mentioned I am worried about what Heretic Monkey pointed out - potential to confusion with Node.js. But I am also for keeping the convention, so I am torn on the matter. — Oleg Valter 1 min ago
 
1:43 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I thought it was a guy burying his head in his hands out of shame, @charlietfl. But even a prayer doesn't suggest "thanks" to me. Neither does the "wash your hands" emoji that the other half of the users see. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Who would want this? What would be the motivation for this feature? Stack Overflow already has its own feed of "interesting" questions, customized for you, on the homepage. Then, there are the Hot Network Questions. And there's the newsletter, "The Overview", which includes a curated list of interesting questions from across the network. Why would we expect that someone would go to Twitter to find questions from Stack Overflow? — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rubén
Back in 2011 from stackoverflow.blog/2011/01/12/… "The more people that discover our high quality Q&A; and join us — the better the community becomes for everyone!" — Rubén 9 secs ago
 
2:25 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kaiido
@DavidPostill it does show the bookmark icon, on questions, and it even keeps working. That screenshot is showing an answer. — Kaiido just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kaiido
And one thing I like to have these icons for, is to remind me how I did vote on these deleted posts. — Kaiido just now
 
3:17 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
It's been discussed multiple times on Meta. Yes, there is an expectation that tag removal be discussed on Meta. This one started being discussed circa 2013. I think that's long enough. — Cody Gray ♦ 20 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dawood ibn Kareem
I would take the one on the right to mean "I pray for anyone who tries to make use of this answer". — Dawood ibn Kareem 1 min ago
 
3:39 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@CodyGray - while I am not one to assess the intention (still: you probably interpreted correctly, "synonym" here is not used in a strict sense of a tag synonym), so on your second question: Google Maps Platform has a Directions API and a Maps JavaScript API, but no "Google Maps Direction API" which seems a bit confusing. Also the wiki throws DirectionsService object in the mix... — Oleg Valter 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
...Note to readers: if we do this, we need to ensure the target tag has a wiki and excerptOleg Valter 1 min ago
 
4:03 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bravemaster
Important premise is missing. Do you want to say thanks? -> Do you have upvote privileges? -> ... — bravemaster 1 min ago
 
4:17 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
A high quality Q&A site is what the entire network wants to be, not just Stack Overflow. There's no place for a Garbage.SE. — Cody Gray ♦ 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Yes, the tool is commonly known as gas. That's what everyone calls it, including me, who works with it every day. Assuming that something is minor or unpopular just because you've never heard of it doesn't scale to a site the size of Stack Overflow. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
When virtually the entire moderator team is opposed, "reduces burden on moderators" stops being a good argument in favor of the feature. We would know. — Cody Gray ♦ 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
The reason we don't allow it, @Kayaman, is because it's inappropriate and against the spirit of the site. This site is not about users; it's about content. That's why it's both inappropriate to send a personal "thank you" and to send a personal "screw you". You can find other ways to express your frustration. Use upvotes and downvotes to express your opinion about the usefulness of a particular post. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@CodyGray 1) I did not find this tag being discussed. If you are implying that it was simply "guilty by association" then that's rather arbitrary, rash judgement. 2) I do not see any "mass addition" in the posted curve, based on wayback snapshots. 3) It now sounds like you want to walk back what you previously said "Regular community members ("random users") handle the retagging, not diamond moderators.". — dxiv 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick
@CodyGray This tag has been bothering me for ages, I didn't care if it stayed or went, but the fact that the limbo is over is a huge relief — Nick 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
I don't really know what you're attempting to establish here, but point-by-point: (1) Guilt by association doesn't make sense when applied to tags. There are lots of Meta discussions spanning many years about how [product-vba] tags don't make sense, and should instead be tagged separately [product] and [vba]. If you had an opinion about this, you had many years to make that opinion known. The time for discussion has come and gone. As Nick said, this has been in limbo for years, and it's past time someone took the time to do something about it. (2) It's there; I checked before I made the... — Cody Gray ♦ 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@Nick What if next time it happens to a tag you happen to like? Please do not make this about any tag in particular. This is not what the question is about. — dxiv 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
...comment. But, yes, not all of the questions where the tag was removed had been previously edited to add the tag. (3) It now sounds like you're trying to tie me to sweeping, absolute statements. Both moderators and community members work together to improve this site. You were previously arguing that only moderators should do this. I said no; community members handle most of the retagging. Now you're complaining that a moderator is doing it. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish anymore, other than complain. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick
@dxiv This is about a tag in particular, there are DOZENS of questions regarding this tag and it has been a point of contention for years. This is an exception. — Nick 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@Nick Everything is a welcome exception until it happens to inconvenience you, isn't it. Please, again, do not turn this into an argument about any specific tag. — dxiv 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
If you don't want to focus on a specific tag, then this a duplicate of the FAQ on the tag burnination process. — Cody Gray ♦ 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick
@dxiv Then to answer your question: here, it was marked as pending removal 2 years ago and was finally deleted. That is when it was decided. The warning not to use the tag has been on it that entire time. The statement "I could find no prior discussion or announcement on meta about the removal of this particular tag" just means you didn't look, it is not hard to find. — Nick 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@CodyGray (3) I was just quoting you ad litteram: "This site is moderated by the community. Regular community members ("random users") handle the retagging, not diamond moderators.". — dxiv 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@CodyGray AFAICT the case described here broke most rules in Criteria for Burnination. — dxiv 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@Nick That link is about a different tag. — dxiv 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kayaman
@CodyGray I meant in the sense that you would have a button that wouldn't actually do anything (except maybe something visually for you), i.e. equivalent to punching a wall. — Kayaman 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BSMP
...the case described here... You've said you don't want this to be about a specific tag. If this is about the general case, then we have a FAQ for burnination requests. If this is about a specific case, then the tag being discussed matters. — BSMP 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick
huh, i was on the bountied tab this whole time xd that explains a lot, i'mma just back out and grab coffee (although looks like that tag is getting removed too... maybe that'll get nuked soon too) — Nick 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@BSMP The link says among other things "If a tag has more than 1000 questions, the review work you and the community have to complete is enormous. You would need to fulfill the additional criterion: Is the tag causing a fairly large amount of harm?". This tag had obviously more than that, and I don't know that even its foes argued that it causes 'a fairly large amount of harm". — dxiv 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kayaman
@CodyGray I meant in the sense that you would have a button that wouldn't actually do anything (except maybe something visually for you), i.e. equivalent to punching a wall. I know SO is supposed to be a QA site all about content (which is fine by me), but every so often you hear this "community" talk, and communities are about people. I don't really enjoy the schitzophrenic "be welcoming, yet strict, also strictness can be rudeness so be careful" nature, but I understand the business reasonings behind the whole mess. — Kayaman 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@Kayaman That sounds like something that a userscript would/should provide. It's not quite so schizophrenic as you make it out to be. Granted, the messages from the company are somewhat mixed and confusing. But all we're really asking you to do is focus on content (not on users) and avoid snarky comments because they can be easily misinterpreted and hurt someone on the other end. — Cody Gray ♦ 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick
Ahhhh, this must be about outlook-vba... in which case, this post is still absolutely relevant, because the post holds for all *-vba tags — Nick 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
Last time you complained about this, it was about edits performed by a non-diamond community member. Now it's the same thing, but done by a user with a diamond. This looks like a duplicate of that previous question, IMO. — yivi 19 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@Nick So you are of the "guilty by association" opinion, too. I happen to disagree, but this is off topic here. — dxiv 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Are you talking about editing your old questions to improve them, or to completely change them? You should never edit your old questions and make them into a different question. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@yivi There is no "complaint" in the question as posted. The notion that there is one was a red herring thrown in a comment, which hijacked the course away from the actual question. I am still hoping for an answer proper, rather than dismissive innuendo. — dxiv 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bhavya Gupta
@CodyGray I am actually talking about completely changing them. — Bhavya Gupta 45 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
There is a complaint, and it's blatantly false to affirm there is none. I can read, thanks. I was not distracted by any comment. The question says there "there was no discussion or dueness", and asks about "safeguards to prevent this from happening". That's the complaint right there on the first few lines, and informs the rest of of the question which maintains the same tone; which you keep using on the comments here. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
No, don't do that. Just ask a new question. If you're convinced that your old question is no longer useful in any way, then you can delete it. — Cody Gray ♦ 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@yivi Both parts you quoted are integral part of the questions. Those would be different questions if I removed those parts. If you mean that your answer would be 1) Yes, 2) No, and No then please by all means post that as answer. — dxiv 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bhavya Gupta
@CodyGray I just immediately wanted to ask but was banned to do so. Note - It was a year before. Now I am eligible to ask and have improved the quality. — Bhavya Gupta 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
It's a complaint in the form of a loaded question. It's not possible to answer directly without addressing the assumptions of the questions. And the assumptions of the question were addressed elsewhere (as pointed earlier), which makes answering this question less interesting. I'm out of here. Good luck! — yivi 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@yivi Not sure why you read those as "complaints". Both parts you quoted are integral part of the questions. Those would be very different questions without those parts. If you mean that your answer would be 1) Yes, and 2) No, and No, then please by all means post that as answer. — dxiv 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@yivi All assumptions for this question are spelled out here, so please leave the other question out of this. Sorry why you think "it's not possible to answer" the question on its own merit. — dxiv 1 min ago
 
 
1 hour later…
7:11 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Skeet
I can't imagine anyone reading this and thinking it isn't a complaint. Just putting it in the form of a question with an obvious implication that what's happened is unreasonable doesn't stop it from being a complaint. — Jon Skeet 1 min ago
 
7:23 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@JonSkeet Thank you for your input, though honestly I don't understand the objection. The question is stated at the top of the post, divided in two parts since the second one is conditional on the first. Would you have still seen it as a "complaint" if I had stopped right there and omitted the rest? I thought it's only fair to anyone weighing an answer to give an example for context. Instead, I am being told off for "complaining" while the actual question is ignored. If you mean that your answer would be 1) Yes, and 2) No, and No, then please by all means post that as answer. — dxiv 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
Can we have bounty on meta questions, please... this answer is priceless... — Dalija Prasnikar 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
You keep saying that answering "yes" is a possible answer, but that disregards the obvious loaded/multiple question nature of your questions. E.g. can't you see that it's impossible to answer the "yes/no" question without first dealing with the assumption that it was done "without discussion and dueness"? — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Remy
Can this be looked at again? Considering Unity has now fully dropped support for languages outside of C# (Boo, UnityScript)? And although yes, F# can be used in Unity it is not an out of the box native support. — Remy 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tadeusz Kopec
I would like to thank for this answer, but there is no react button. So I post a comment. — Tadeusz Kopec 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Skeet
@dxiv: Yes, it would clearly be a complaint. You're expressing the opinion that something unfair/inappropriate has happened. Expressing that opinion in the form of a question doesn't stop it from being obvious what your opinion is. If you don't want the "actual question" to be ignored, stop pretending that the "actual question" isn't a complaint. But to my mind, it seems that the answer to the first question is "No" - but that the situation you're describing hasn't actually happened. If you believe it has, then the specific tag absolutely matters. — Jon Skeet 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Skeet
(And this post would be much more straightforward if you'd just come out and said "I believe the way that the outlook-vba tag has been handled is inappropriate. This is what's happened... etc - rather than trying to make it a general case that still happens to show a specific graph...) — Jon Skeet 1 min ago
 
7:57 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@JonSkeet Suppose I proposed that the visual-lightswitch tag be retired and replaced by visual-studio + lightswitch and the proposal gained some support, though it was never carried out. I don't think that would allow me (or anyone) to extrapolate that it's OK to retire visual-c# and replace it with visual-studio + c#, or visual-c++ with visual-studio + c++. However, that's pretty much what happened to outlook-vba. That said, my question is not about the past outlook-vba, but rather about what the rules of the game are in fact, for the sake of future tag removals. — dxiv 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Skeet
If you don't really don't care about the example you've given, I'd be happy to write an answer saying "Yes, there should be discussion before wide-scale changes." Would you then accept that answer and move on, without raising "well what about outlook-vba?" — Jon Skeet 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Vadim Kotov
@Nitrodon Can you please elaborate on this? AFAIK, Dagger Hilt was developed internally and then it was released as alpha in Jetpack library collection (and the development process is running there). So I think it means the same thing currently. — Vadim Kotov 1 min ago
 
8:19 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TheMaster
@CodyGray Although it's true that I've never heard of it or used it before running into tag name similarity, The assumption that it is minor/unpopular is based on number of questions in the tag (754 vs 32855-> Apps script at least 43x more popular). In addition, none of the gas-assembler related tags use the keyword gas, while apps script has so many divisions starting with google-apps-script-*. Prima facie, These are my reasons to even attempt to request the switch from gas: assembler to google-apps-script-> for the sake of all of SO community. — TheMaster 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JD-Stack
@Luuklag - yeah, you're right. Sorry missed that part of the question :). — JD-Stack 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by dxiv
@JonSkeet I would be happy to accept your answer. As for the "discussion" I assume you mean this one. I'll only say that outlook-vba was not mentioned in the main post and very little elsewhere, Shog9 only wrote "It can" when asked about it, and among the upvoted answers there was no clear balance in favor of dropping even excel-vba. — dxiv 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@E_net4flagsheat I thought this was not a place for the extended discussion? — Leonard 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
Thank you for pointing that out. But what is the solution? Do we need private mailboxes maybe where answerers can receive personal praise from readers? — Trilarion 32 secs ago
 
8:33 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
I mean... there is really only one sensible course of action: Nuke the user's account, hard-delete the meta-question, redact the original flagged post, change your name and appearance and assume a new identity in a far away country with no local SO representation. Right? — yivi 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
@BhargavRao So tag clean-up equals happiness? Personally I always regarded it as boring busy-work, but each to their own I guess :) — Lundin 20 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@E_net4flagsheat No it is not unfounded. An unjustified downvote is extremely rude. Like OP mentions there are many cases those downvotes happen due to misunderstanding. — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@Jean-FrançoisFabre I don't think I can come even close to replacing Yvette. Also I am not sure if my POV as a woman will bring too much, except being able to say something men are not commonly "allowed" to say anymore without being accused of sexism. Anyway, I will not try because it was never my intention to try in the first place. Maybe some other time... — Dalija Prasnikar 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
@yivi :D Good point. I forgot add the follow up question of "Why?" — Scratte just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@MartinJames How about you actually answer the question provided by the OP then? The question in the OP was not bad and not “rude” either. But the comments and the unjustified downvotes were rude. What is your say on that? — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MrUpsidown
@OlegValter I have created the tag wiki. It is under review since yesterday. — MrUpsidown 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@SecurityHound How do you find it insulting? Provide an explanation please because that just sounds absurd and extreme. — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@MartinJames the link to an example is literally in the OP. — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Mods can't hard-delete, @yivi — Cody Gray ♦ just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
It's not even IP-based, @Donald. I see one on my desktop and another on my laptop, both behind the same NAT with the exact same public IP. — Cody Gray ♦ just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
Oh, well. No nomination for me I guess. I'm glad that's the only part of my comment you object @Cody. ;) — yivi 45 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MrUpsidown
@CodyGray There is indeed the Directions API, as a web service, and the Directions Service, as part of the Maps Javascript API. In the end, it's the same API but with different ways to access it. IMO, we can keep only one tag (google-directions-api). If we would keep separate tags for the web service and the service as part of the JS API, then we would be missing other tags for other APIs that have the same structure (Places API, Geocoding API, etc.). — MrUpsidown 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Shadow Wizard is Ear For You
I don't see this as healthy discussion. What you "ask" here is something like "Is it legal to kill another human being?", expecting the obvious "No, of course not", then pointing fingers and saying "But hey, [name here] killed [other name here], arrest him!1!!!". Not very productive. Instead, you can explain why the tag is required and shouldn't be removed and see what other people think. — Shadow Wizard is Ear For You 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@MartinJames "SO is a Q&A site for professional and enthusiast programmers. It is a very poor place for completely untrained/inexperienced people to get direct tuition:(" This is the clear example of the condescending attitude here. This kind of attitude is what generated victim mentioned in the OP. Why are you and many not admitting this? — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
Isn't this kind of a leading question? ;) I mean is there any change of a candidate saying "There's is noway I'd ever change my mind on a decision"? — Scratte 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MrUpsidown
@OlegValter Got you. I don't think it would be really confusing if we had [google-api-javascript-client] and [google-api-node.js-client]. We need tag wikis though. I just found out though that we also have google-api-js-client which seems to be yet another naming for that same Google API Client Library for JavaScript. Do we want "js" or "javascript"? I don't know what's the naming convention. I would choose "javascript". — MrUpsidown 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 flags heat
@Leonard What we are telling you is that your stance on downvotes without an explanation is unhealthy and will bring you a very poor experience on this site. By design, we are allowed to vote content up and down to give it a score of quality and usefulness, without requiring a comment alongside the downvote. That won't change. I'm afraid that you will just have to embrace it. — E_net4 flags heat 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
So many here say “downvote is not rude”. In theory, yes. In practice? NO, due to unjustified downvotes. As exemplified in the OP, a reasonable question often get downvotes, closed etc. and never get fair chance to get an appropriate answer. This is an abuse. This is so damn rude. — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@E_net4flagsheat I understand that is the system here. And I'm pointing out the problems it is not handling well. So what about the unhealthy experience I and the OP mentioned? Are we giving up on that as a community? — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MrUpsidown
At some point, I think we should take a decision on what tags we want to have and a real naming convention towards these Google-related tags. I have other requests in the pipe for Google APIs... The point is, Google provides dozens of APIs. Many can be accessed as web services, and with client libraries. Also Google has renamed some of those APIs over the time. I believe all these points have lead to the current situation with inconsistent naming. Also some tags were obviously created with no real naming convention in mind. Do we want to harmonise everything? — MrUpsidown 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by camden_kid
Can I just add that I also HATE the tooltips on the upvote/downvote buttons. — camden_kid 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
@camden_kid you can hate them here: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/398386/8620333 ;) — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 flags heat
@Leonard If you understood the system, you wouldn't be reacting to downvotes like that. Askers were never really entitled to getting answers in the first place, and the act of asking is a privilege which can be taken away if the system finds their contributions to not meet quality standards. Consider asking a new Meta question if you feel that discussion on the subject needs to be reiterated, although I wouldn't expect a positive reception, to be honest. Platforms for Q&A without those "rude downvotes" already exist. — E_net4 flags heat 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by camden_kid
I HATE these tooltips! Please give us an option to disable them or just wipe them off the face of the earth for everyone. — camden_kid 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@E_net4flagsheat By framing it around, you are also avoiding to answer my question. What is your thought on those unjustified downvotes and comments? It seems that you are suggesting no alternative to solve apparent problems at hand. — Leonard 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@E_net4flagsheat "If you understood the system, you wouldn't be reacting to downvotes like that." That is a bias, assuming that there should be only one reaction coming from understanding the system. That is problematic.Sadly that is how most people are framing the answer here, as "this is the system, this is the rule". — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
There isn't really much to do. The approach I took on android-studio (while I was still actively editing) was that I always left a comment - that can prevent OP from mistagging in the future, as well as impact anyone who reads it, and recruit more editors to help with the never-ending flow of mistagging. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/354427/… is also useful to link to — Zoe 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by usr2564301
It seems the only way to educate such users is to tell them, one at a time ("can you explain why you did not read the tag description?" "-- uh what is a tag description"). Until now, I don't think any amount of education, popups, or warnings has worked. — usr2564301 25 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
Honestly, though, this event is not good. In the post regarding the *-vba tags, it was clearly specified that this would be done automatically, which avoids license changes, mass bumping, etc. While the way this has been brought up is dubious, and the company should've acted shortly after bringing up the matter, that doesn't really make this event okay in my opinion. — Erik A 43 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 flags heat
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette
@gnat who do you think made that sway? — Yvette 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette
The mods let each other know when there's a meta post concerning their actions. It's unlikely to fall through the cracks. — Yvette 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@usr2564301 I agree. I find mistagging to not really be a problem with repetition - most users will get the hint if the tag gets edited or if a comment is left with "I don't think tag X is appropriate". OK, sometimes they don't but in my experience most of the time the user understands the issue. But there is just so many users who do a one time mistake. So one by one education hardly helps. Tag descriptions also hardly help - I see people misusing them all the time. Sometimes the tag says "THIS IS ABOUT X DO NOT USE FOR Y" other times literally "DO NOT USE THIS TAG". — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
"It seems that you and many are suggesting no alternative to solve apparent problems at hand" - there have been countless suggestions for measures that reduce the need to downvote by helping askers post questions that are less likely to attract downvotes and close votes. Wanna know how many SE have implemented? 0. We had the asking wizard for a while, but that seems to have since been removed. The voting system is fine - users continuing to post bad questions/answers results in a lot more downvotes than upvotes. The voting system isn't broken; the asking/answering systems are. — Zoe 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette
I'd thought it was worth mentioning. I'm not saying it can't ever happen, but the mods do discuss it and will ping the mod who handled the flag. — Yvette 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
@Yvette Well.. that's just very curious, I'd say. I suppose I should update my Question to "You've noticed such a post isn't being answered by anyone at all. What do you do?" :D — Scratte 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
@Yvette But in all fairness, perhaps an aspiring moderator isn't aware of the "heads up", or was temporarily away on holiday or military duty.. or.. — Scratte 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette
if they are absent another mod will provide an answer - don't forget if it's about a declined flag, it's likely they will be active. — Yvette 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette
I was trying to help you, I didn't realise you were taking it as argumentative, sorry. — Yvette 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
@Yvette My question was inspired by a personal experience. I imagine I am not the only user with an unanswered declined-flag post on meta. I had preferred to keep it out of the discussion here, but I feel it's just going in circles now. — Scratte 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scratte
@Yvette :) Sorry. I do see most of those meta posts being answered, so of course you are mostly right :) — Scratte 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jean-François Fabre
maybe the answer could be something between "Okay" and "No way!". — Jean-François Fabre ♦ 1 min ago
 
10:35 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
@Leonard - First your reaction to my opinion on this subject is actually sort of rude. You also just got saying you thought an “unjustified downvote” was rude.l after saying you understand votes are not neutral. It’s clear you find any vote that isn’t explicitly explained to be rude. Ots — Security Hound just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Remy
I suppose doing that would help (atleast some) people from repeating the mistake, one issue with it though is that a lot of questions in the Unity tag are one time askers to begin with — Remy 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
You might want to clarify what nuke here means. Is it a binding spam flag, or deletion of user accounts, or something else? — Samuel Liew ♦ 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
@charlietfl In reality, it's the symbol of two chairs with integrated speaker. Probably a new kind of innovative bus. — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
Your vote is still displayed on deleted contributions — Security Hound 1 min ago
 
11:15 AM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
@Yvette I believe this was high visibility ot the actions along with personality and authority of involved moderator(s) — gnat 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dan Bron
The first one looks fine to me. It has a problem statement, inputs, expected outputs, a description of the problem (is erroneous outputs), as well as describing efforts to date, including a MRE, all arranged in a clear and orderly fashion. Is it an exciting problem? No. Is it something we’d expect a professional programmer to need to ask for help on? No. But is it focused? Yes. I haven’t checked your other two examples. — Dan Bron 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette
@gnat I'm wondering which particular mods you thought had that sway - who are they? — Yvette 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jean-François Fabre
for me all mod binding actions are nukes. — Jean-François Fabre ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
The first question you've linked got a substantial edit halfway through making it somewhat more focused, but I tend to agree with your judgment, it seems to have lengthy JSON, lengthy code, and 3 subquestions, that's far from focused. However, it's been disputed through triage review, specifically this review. I tend to think triage is a mess and not take triage reviews too seriously, see Triage needs to be fixed urgently, and users need to be notified upon receiving a review ban! for context — Erik A 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BDL
None of the questions asks multiple questions at once. They may not be high quality, some may even be closeable for other reasons (the second might be a typo), but none of them needs more focus. — BDL 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dalija Prasnikar
@Lundin No, but when you are in a happy place you can be more motivated to participate in cleanups of any kind. If you are depressed or just don't care or don't see the point, if you don't feel your efforts can make the difference or they are not appropriately valued, then the last thing you will do is help make the site better place. — Dalija Prasnikar 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@SecurityHound ...I would suggest you to read where the term "unjustified downvote" came from. It is first said by the OP, which should be the default context that we all share. It seems that you are making the black-or-white logical fallacy here. "It’s clear you find any vote that isn’t explicitly explained to be rude." especially this. — Leonard 37 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@E_net4ofthedownvotebrigade You are clearly avoiding to answer it again but if that's your choice, be it so. I don't intend on asking this on meta now. — Leonard 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ahmed Abdelhameed
it's quite obvious the test's result was "it doesn't work" Um, where exactly does it say that? The other linked question states that it's still "currently being tested" and that "the current iteration of the Thank you Reaction feature will be turned off at the conclusion of the current test (on July 17)" until they "find the best way forward". — Ahmed Abdelhameed 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@Zoe Thank you. Your reply is direct and clear. But this still doesn't answer what the OP and I'm asking for: what does the community want to do with the well-asked questiosn that are getting unjustified downvotes? Okay sure, you find bad questions/aswers to be the problem. But what about well-thought questions? This is literally what the OP asked and I mentioned several times still the question is being framed and limited to "bad question/bad answer". — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by VLAZ
I monitor the JavaScript tag. There are quite a lot of questions mistagged as Java and JavaScript or even just Java that turn up. I don't completely blame the askers - the confusing name scheme is definitely at fault. But still, if you're a student with homework you could at least know which language your code is in. At any rate, very rarely do I see a repeat mistagging. Sometimes the question askers actually did know better but tag autocomplete was why they had the incorrect tag. So, yes - I don't see individual education as something that would solve a lot of problems. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Leonard
@SecurityHound I apologize if you found my first reaction to the comment to be rude. But I was genuinely confused as to why would someone find my (and many's including the OP's) interpretation of downvote to be personally insulting. — Leonard 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
The question also says "Downvotes have their place, of course. But if reasonably well-asked question garners this amount of downvotes in a short time, with an explanation which the OP does not understand, then this feels like abuse." -- well-asked often means "good" (disregarding duplicates; questions can be good, but be duplicates). — Zoe 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@MrUpsidown - btw, I got a couple of slots freed up, so working on it - wanted to visually separate deprecated APIs + provide links to guides / references for the listed APIs for quite some time — Oleg Valter 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Remy
Thank you Cody, this has been very clear and educative! I hope you get to read this comment before it gets deleted. But regrettably, there was no compare-hand-sizes emoji next to the post to express my gratitude in a different way. (Joking aside, I actually think this answer is amazing, and hope it won't be flagged as offensive soon, as someone, somewhere without a doubt will find this post to bee too snarky, offensive) — Remy 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lundin
@DalijaPrasnikar Wisely said, I agree completely. — Lundin 19 secs ago
 
12:15 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
SE failing to follow their own timeline shouldn't put a stop to stuff the community can do. To the mod who finally pulled the trigger on this overdue mess: thank you — Zoe 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by M.A.R.
@omatai or, in another perspective, why should my upvotes on a post matter less just because I stumbled upon it later than some folks? — M.A.R. 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
To keep waiting forever until "staff" has time to do curation work does not seem to be a sensible position, IMO. A momentary bump of these question in the "active" lists seems a very minor problem to be concerned about. I appreciate that a moderator and other community members have jumped in and are doing the work themselves. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
My problem is not with the action, my problem is with not keeping to the plan as discussed and pulling this off unannounced, without it being clear if there's any plans for evaluating the effects. I get that the trigger should have been pulled on this by staff long ago, but currently it's being handled differently than as discussed. Even with a burnination, this is always featured during the action to get everyone on the same line, this hasn't been done here so the only way to find out the tag you're using is being actively removed is by checking recent activity. — Erik A 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
@Zoe That's fair, but not a reason to do something very different from what was planned and discussed, nor a reason to not announce carrying through this action. — Erik A 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
It has been over 2 years for a plan that was meant to take two months. SE has decided to ignore it -- getting them back on board will probably take a while, especially since Shog got the boot — Zoe 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
The test isn't over yet. This answer may be written from a perspective some weeks in the future from now. — Trilarion 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Qix - MONICA WAS MISTREATED
Love the passive aggressiveness, I missed this. What a nonsense "feature". — Qix - MONICA WAS MISTREATED 19 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Qix - MONICA WAS MISTREATED
What are you DOING, StackOverflow? It seems like every month you have some new way of further killing the site. — Qix - MONICA WAS MISTREATED 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@Leonard You can never satisfy everyone. Either you aim for high quality but then have to reject some things or you accept everything but then don't get only high quality. Problem is different interests. It isn't meant to be condescending or personal in any way. It's just that we have different ideas about what SO should be. If you have a solution how to make SO working for everyone without any kind of friction, I'm all ears, but I personally think this is impossible. Instead, currently SO is failing for everyone, except the visitors searching for the most common problems, but that's it. — Trilarion 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
@Leonard two reasons. First, I cannot have an answer to allegedly-rude comments that have been deleted. Second, the op uses the term 'bullies' over few fake internet points and some comments on a Q&A site. Since I have some experience with bullying in my family, I know that the OP is totally clueless about the effects of cyber/physical bullying and doesn't care how many people he might upset by such a lack of consideration. I try not to engage with such users as it would likely get me suspended. — Martin James 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
@Leonard the op does have a link, but the comments have been deleted. Also, though I have used C#, I do not consider able to judge the technical merit, or otherwise, of the question. This answerer, however, has no link, hence 'didn't happen'. — Martin James 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
I mean 'a recent question which received multiple rude comments from a high-rep user'.....where? Are we supposed to just accept that? — Martin James 45 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Adriaan
Thanks! This helped me! — Adriaan 1 min ago
 
1:13 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ansgar Wiechers
It's not that the company has done little to make things better. More like they did everything in their power to make things worse. And to be very clear: there have been repercussions. The answer rate has dropped by almost 10% as a direct result. Just in case someone was still operating under the delusion that high profile users leaving wouldn't matter. — Ansgar Wiechers 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
Does this answer your question? Demise of a tagDharman 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
The answer was accepted before the question was closed. You indicated you "agree", by submitting an answer that indicated that, that the community was rude to that author 5 years ago. — Security Hound 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Dharman
@yivi Fair point, I retracted. But I have already seen the same concern raised few times in the past couple of days and the explanation seems clear. Moderator removed the tag that was added primarily by one user. The tag has been bending burnination anyway — Dharman 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
@Leonard - You indicated you were in agreement that the community was rude to the author of the question. Here is a news flash that question was not good, you might not be aware of the fact, that there is little difference between a method and a Task in C#, I guess I am insulted (on behalf of the rest of the community) that you believe, the community responded rudely to that author 5 years ago, because all that really happened was a duplicate question was closed. — Security Hound 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
@Dharman That's not fair. That other question was a poorly veiled complaint. This question is asking why a specific course of action was not taken. Not that I agree, but closing it as a dupe of that one is not helpful, IMO. — yivi 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Security Hound
You don't ever really specify what rude action you believe was taken. Is closing a bad question that showed very little understanding of what a Task actually was in C# considered rude? Is closing a question, that actually did answer the author's question, considered to be rude behavior? The answer that was submitted to the question by the way, was accepted, before it was even closed. All this answer indicates is you agree the community it rude, you don't offer any real examples, and as a member of this community I took offense. Taking community moderation action is not consider rude.Security Hound 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
@Dharman The added primarily by one user is currently plain untrue though. Currently, the edits adding the tag are few, limited to max 50 per user per day afaik. Meanwhile, thousands of questions have been edited to remove the tag in the past days. So I don't buy that argument unless someone shows me some data on it. I closely monitor access-vba, which has had no users adding the tag, and currently has mass removal of the tag. — Erik A 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MrUpsidown
This should be the accepted answer... — MrUpsidown 13 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ismael Miguel
"Other sites are forums and social websites, Stack Overflow is not one of them. Am I wrong?" <-- You aren't wrong. Maybe StackOverflow will change into SocialOverflow, with these changes. And locking the posts so we can't comment shows that StackOverflow (the company) doesn't give any slight consideration to what the users say. All I see is empty words and locked posts... If StackOverflow (the company) listens to us, they would stop converting the website into social networks. — Ismael Miguel 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MrUpsidown
How can you say "No, that is not appropriate." and "everyone is free to vote as they please" in the same answer? — MrUpsidown 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
That's ... problematic - while this is on the "useful" side of things (especially compared to the thanks button), it is worrying that users will be trained that upvote means "thanks" and not "this answer is useful" or "has a long-term value", etc. And then - what would downvote mean in this paradigm, "no, thanks"? That said, the idea behind gently nudging new users towards voting is certainly promising — Oleg Valter 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jean-Fran&#231;ois Fabre
good question, but I wouldn't be the ones having to answer those... — Jean-François Fabre ♦ just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Oleg Valter
@MrUpsidown - good find, looks like there is another venue given what you found: rename google-api-js-client to google-api-javascript-client, then add google-api-browser-client as synonym and if google-api-js-client still creeps up, make it a synonym as well. I would also choose JavaScript (not sure about the consensus either, but my guideline always was: use the name given by creator where possible). — Oleg Valter 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Rounin
@CodyGray - I wouldn't automatically write off any question or answer which is less than high quality as "garbage". That's quite the binary outlook. I think there is value in having a range on the spectrum labelled "not good enough to be amongst the high quality questions and answers but not garbage enough to be worth deleting." I'd contend there absolutely is a place for NeedsImprovement.SE and that isn't the same place as HighQuality.SE. Trying to force the two to co-exist in the same place ends up leading to more problems. — Rounin just now
 
1:59 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makyen
@camden_kid You can hide the pseudo tooltips on the items in the voting area by adding the CSS: .votecell .s-popover {display: none;}Makyen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
you do know you can @-reply the gold badge holder that closed your question? Their name will not auto-complete but if you type their username (without the spaces) they should get an inbox notification. Maybe link them to this meta post so we can hear their reasoning for the closing. — rene 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ouflak
"Answer a couple of questions..." That may not work on low-traffic tags. And might encouraging spamming the site with answers (on doomed duplicate questions) just so they can later say 'thanks' to a post. Instead, edit some questions/answers for grammar, clarity, consistency, formatting, etc.... They could always jump into the horrific... um... er I mean wonderful inviting 'Thanks in Advanced' fray and help cleanup some of those posts. Keeping in mind, a lot of those posts need more work than just a phrase removal. — ouflak 19 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Neph
I didn't know that, thanks for telling me! Going to do that now. — Neph 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
the conditions for comment replies are somewhat complex but here is the FAQ on MSE about that topic: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/43019/…rene 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
@ErikA probably c++-faq in this context — Zoe 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
You mean the tag wikis? Or just the top-voted questions? — Erik A 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Kevin B
err, that's a meta tag, why does it exist. — Kevin B 55 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
@ErikA it's in both, so both:) — Martin James 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Erik A
@Zoe I thought that too at first, but the duplicate of that question doesn't belong there and C++ is nearly the only tag with a -faq option — Erik A 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
@Zoe oh, just like stdlib and pthreads, then:) — Martin James 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zoe
Yeah, sure, if the stdlib and pthreads qualified as unnecessary and shouldn't have been made in the first place — Zoe 17 secs ago
 
2:57 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by CodeCaster
Let's not introduce more conditions that can go wrong. — CodeCaster 44 secs ago
 
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