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3:00 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
Maybe there is an issue then? — Ben 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Yea, but it's not like this discussion hasn't been started time and time again. Usually without compelling evidence or reasoning why: "why not accept that <...>" Why should we? — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Not really. Nothing new, and nothing that outweighs consolidating knowledge in canonicals... Just because an idea gets suggested multiple times doesn't mean it's a good idea. — Cerbrus 6 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
@Cerbrus I have supplied, in this q and the discussion the rational reason for the opening of the discussion and for a change. — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
Linking to the related question is important. I am not proposing that stop. Exacxt duplicates do sometimes exist (eg "how do closures work in JS?") — Ben 39 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
exact duplicates never exist. the purpose of duplicate is to link to a closely related question. We don't close the question because it's the same BUT because it's related and we can (after few effort of reading) find the solution to the closed question. — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
Linking to a canonical is important. And that can be done at the same time as permitting solutions to the precise problem of the user. — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tomalak
Arguably all of my old answer are, well, old. It stands to reason that quite a few contain outdated approaches, deprecated method calls, or things that are no longer considered good practice for any number of reasons. Do you keep tabs on all of your old answers? — Tomalak 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Then why is it important to answer the duplicate any way? The answer should be in the dupe target. If it's not, then either the dupe target needs an additional answer (a new approach?) or, the dupe target is a poor fit. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
Nobody is telling you that you should. I don't know how you came to that. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
For near dupes the closure is usually enough. If that's not the case, a small comment giving the user a nudge in the right direction should be plenty. — Cerbrus 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
@TemaniAfif I'm saying we should be more forgiving. We can dive down semantic rabbit holes all day. — Ben 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
Sure. The answer is there. And the dupe should be linked to. And if it is an exact dupe then the q can be closed. But for near-dupes leaving it open for a tailored answer can be helpful. — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
and how to identify an exact duplicate? All the questions I closed are exact duplicate from my perspective so I don't want them to be answered. How can we agree about the meaning of exact? — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
SO's mission is not to help the user. It's to help all future readers. Future readers aren't helped by 100 questions with 200 answers with minor variations. — Cerbrus 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
Oftentimes these novice users can be helped even better by delivering them a tailored answer. The dupe should always be linked to if possible. — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
This isn't "Semantics and rabbit holes". Your suggestion is vague, and has a couple of problems that we're trying to point out and explain. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
The point of duplicate closure is to prevent similar answers appearing all over the palce. — Cerbrus 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
As long as the canonical is linked to, what's the problem? — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
As long as the canonical is linked to, I don't see why it matters. And it presents a useful stepping stone for inexperienced users to jump in an help and start their journey to becoming a more expert contributor. — Ben 46 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
"Shouldn't it be more of a forum that helps people with their problems, regardless if they've been posted already?" No. there are other sites for that. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mulligan ᛜ Reinstating Monica
Also, many duplicate questions tends to be localized in nature, hence it is only beneficial to the asker. — Mulligan ᛜ Reinstating Monica 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
I'm not going to repeat myself. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Ben: Your suggestion results in increased noise by allowing answers on dupe-closed questions (but only on some of them, which is vague)... — Cerbrus 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
No, that doesn't help. You still have more posts adding noise to the search results. A few signposts are good, a forest of signpost, not so great. — yivi 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
This signal to noise risk can be mitigated by clearly linking the canonical at the top of the dupe. My point is: we might see an overall better outcome by leaving more questions open (while at the same time linking to the dupe). — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tadeusz Kopec
"[Stack Overflow] is a discursive learning platform". I don't think so. Do you have any support for such claim? — Tadeusz Kopec 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
Maybe simply permitting answers on all dupe-marked questions is the answer. — Ben 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
@Ben then why having duplicate at all if the answer is already giving? — Temani Afif 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
How is that the answer? You keep on insisting it's "better" without explaining why, or addressing our issues with the suggestion. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
@cerberus Your "how" comment injects heat into the discussion that is unnecessary. I have explained "why" twice now. I'll do it a third time: enabling answers on near-dupes will deliver a better experience for novice users of the site by delivering them a tailored response (as well as pointing them to the canonical, of course). It will also provide a stepping stone for junior users to engage with simpler questions, starting them on the journey to being more important contributors. Each issue raised with the suggestion I have addressed, including the data cleanliness one. — Ben 40 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by xdtTransform
Hovering the upvote/ downvote button give a short description of what those button are for. As you may see there is nothing about duplicate. Your premise is duplicate get downvoted, the math does not validate this premise. Because duplicate are not bad, they are road sign, reformulation, simplification or specification of a given question, pointing in the correct direction. Here is an exemple on the exact same subject "What does <T> denote in C#". It's an upvoted duplicate. — xdtTransform 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
"enabling answers on near-dupes will deliver a better experience for novice users of the site by delivering them a tailored response" And the problem there is that that's not the mission of SO. That's a problem we stated multiple times and you haven't addressed. — Cerbrus 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by YSC
repro as of 2020-01-20 15:30:00 UTC — YSC 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
Sorry Ben, but you haven't. Again, even if the questions are linked you have a multitude of signposts, the forest I mentioned earlier. That's incredibly noisy and hard to maintain. The idea is to have a useful amount of dupes, variations that could make easier to find the answer if users are searching by different keywords. Not infinite variations that would choke any attempt of indexation, and would make curation even harder than it is. — yivi 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Don&#39;t Panic
Regarding "... it has been answered somewhere already, it's not for sure that I understand the answers given there." if your question is closed as a duplicate and you don't understand the answer to the duplicate, you can edit your question to explain specifically what you don't understand/doesn't work for you about that answer. — Don't Panic 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
@Ben Build a high quality programming Q&A repository — yivi 20 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
@cerberus What is the mission of SO? — Ben 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
Let me turn that around, @Ben: What do you think makes subject matter experts come to SO? — Cerbrus 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
I do not think we have a question scarcity problem. But we do have a question quality problem. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
OK, in order to meet that mission you need engaged and enthusiastic contributors and you need questioners. If Joe Programmer with seven rep turns up, crafts a question as best he can and is immediately downvoted and has his question closed - do you think he will be more or less likely to use an alternative Q&A site, or return when he is a subject matter expert? Or what about the junior developers who no longer have much of an opportunity to contribute on the site - are they more or less likely to become expert contributors over time? — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
@Cerbrus Klout and the fact that teaching is often the best way to learn and stay on top of your subject matter. — Ben 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
My focus is on contributors. Novice contributors often start asking more questions than writing answers. But over time they become the contributors. — Ben 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Patrice
The main issue is here again that we focus on "pushing anyone away from SO is bad" instead of focusing on what we should always focus on : our place as a repository of knowledge. Personally I go to stack cause, unlike other forums, I don't have to check 14 different questions and answer sets. I find one, and if it's not the one I need, there's usually a canonical. I then read the dupe, I extract the info I need, add it in my "programming knowledge", then I apply it. If I needed specifics, tailored answers... I'd go back to school to learn. Stack isn't a learning platform :/. — Patrice 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
You don't have to. Link to the dupe. Move on. If a novice wants to address the specific instance of the problem and win some unicorn points, let them go for it. — Ben 57 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
@Ben: Writing the same answer over and over again isn't exactly a good learning experience for the author. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Patrice
and then we teach everyone "it's ok to ask dupes, someone will come in and tailor any answer you want to your specific question. No need to learn programming or evolve your knowledge. Someone will always be there to regurgitate it for you". At this point... let's just drop question quality altogether — Patrice 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by drescherjm
Now the c++ tag has this bug. I can understand qt having the icon but not c++drescherjm 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by drescherjm
I agree with that.It was ridiculous for c since there is no c interface with Qtdrescherjm 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ben
I'd argue the benefits (mentioned elsewhere here) of permitting answers on dupes would outweigh that downside. The link to the canonical remains important, but we all ask dumb questions and reinvent the wheel when we are starting out. Meh. — Ben 53 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Aconcagua
@drescherjm At least it's the language Qt is written in. Apart from that, it's not any better than before, now it looks as if C++ was a Qt product... — Aconcagua 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
This is moving in circles, very rapidly. The same arguments are repeated, and I see no attempt to address several points that were raised. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
And it's linked to i.imgur.com instead of i.stack.imgur.com, to boot. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by YSC
Maybe tomorow all tags will display a Qt logo. They might have brought the StackExchange Platinum package! — YSC 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
@TadeuszKopec a while ago there was a (failed) attempt to officially present it as a thing for learninggnat 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by HolyBlackCat
For the record: to add a tag icon (in addition to just sponsoring it) you're supposed to own the copyright to the tag name. — HolyBlackCat 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick A
"People are still editing these out" - Yep, and fixing nothing else while they're at it -.- — Nick A 46 secs ago
 
4:26 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
Yes, the proposed duplicate talks about the C tag, not C++, but it's the same icon. — Heretic Monkey 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BrakNicku
I disagree. Community (judging by highest voted answer) disagreed. Nothing has been done about it in more than a year - maybe it is time to stop those edits. — BrakNicku 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
@Cerbrus Did you read the first link? He's the one who proposed the process and was presumably in charge of it. If he's gone, will the process be continued? What's the status of the process - since there was no official response to the second link? — Cindy Meister 12 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
@BrakNicku I don't care whether these are burninated or not. I just want to know the plans so that people can act accordingly. — Cindy Meister 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
What does Shog's termination have to do with this? — Cerbrus 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
There's no accepted answer there, nor an edit to the question indicating any kind of consensus. The status appears to have been "To be discussed" since it was posted... — Cerbrus just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BrakNicku
Nothing (correct me if I am wrong) in this post suggests manually editing the tags out. — BrakNicku 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick A
If that's the case can we please get rid of "THIS TAG IS PENDING REMOVAL. Instead, please use tags [excel] and [vba]." in the tag excerpt to stop encouraging users suggesting these awful suggested edits. — Nick A 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
@BrakNicku In which post? In the first one, somewhere in the quagmire of comments, there was a discussion about things being easier if the tag were removed from old posts. I don't turn it up at a quick glance, though... — Cindy Meister 6 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
@Cerbrus To which post are you referring? As far as the first one goes, I believe the content in the grey background added in October 2018 was "this is what we're going to do". I call that a resolution on the part of the SO team. No more discussion. — Cindy Meister 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BrakNicku
@NickA I do not have wiki edit privilege yet, but I have submitted the edit for review — BrakNicku 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Patrice
At a first glance, it felt like a troll and took me more than a second to realise that this user is Stack Exchange's CEO.... maybe making that somehow more prominent? It felt like it was "just a random user", until I started clicking through.... — Patrice 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jon Clements
Also curious it's on MSO and not MSE... — Jon Clements just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
@BrakNicku Given that the information was added by SE staff, and there has as yet been no response to what SE is planning to do about this, I'd say you're jumping the gun. This has nothing to do about what any of us want or do not want. It has to do with an SE process. — Cindy Meister 14 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick A
@CindyMeister At NO point in time was the tag pending removal, I fail to see how it's jumping the gun removing a notice that was never correct in the first place — Nick A 54 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juan M
MSE will get a link to come here to discuss. — Juan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
Welcome to Meta, new contributor — rene 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Larnu
Pchandrasekar definitely needs a ♦ or something or that we don't pass them over as a "common" user. ;) — Larnu 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bob__
@CodeCaster They dare look, apparently. It just needs a few more iterations to converge. — Bob__ 16 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BrakNicku
@CindyMeister at no point SE staff recommends manual removal of this tag and the most recent response of SE staff seems to confirm that: i.imgur.com/os6mDpK.pngBrakNicku 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Magisch
@JuanM can you all get the CEO a diamond? The staff bit isn't exactly visible at first glance. — Magisch 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick A
Not to mention the notice on shogs post says: "Ensuring that all questions tagged excel-vba are also tagged excel and vba", (emphasis not my own), note it doesn't say "are instead tagged" — Nick A 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pchandrasekar
Fair point @patrice - I've added a new avatar and a short bio. Thanks for suggestion :) — Pchandrasekar ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Dvorak
@Larnu or just hoist the staff badge into the usercard... I wonder if it's worth making a script over that. — John Dvorak 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jcolebrand
The staff should absolutely be in the usercard. — jcolebrand 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by djsmiley2k in darkness
Welcome to Meta. It's dangerous to go alone, take this!. — djsmiley2k in darkness 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jcolebrand
I also wouldn't mind seeing more details around "[companies] have all announced efforts to use Stack Overflow as a platform for helping programmers to use their products." because people have been using Stack Overflow to support their products for years instead of maintaining their own forums. This feels like fluff for marketing "oh look now these companies are doing this yay for today now look new shiny!" and not "[companies] continue to invest in our ecosystem". — jcolebrand 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by machine_1
This looks promising. I'm excited to see many of the controversies being resolved here. — machine_1 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jcolebrand
I was about to write an "answer" the same effect. "It is critically important that we evolve our platform, community infrastructure, and culture to be more useful to our community so we continue to be a core part of a developer’s workflow." and "As we look forward to 2020, we plan to invest in public Q&A, expand our community, and continue to cement our place as a pillar of the software industry and broader knowledge economy." seem to be at odds with what we already evangelize about the network. We who are dedicated to this network WANT the entirety of the network to be maintained. Not just SO — jcolebrand 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ChrisF
@jcolebrand a lot of companies "using" Stack Overflow as a place to support their developers simply dump them on the Ask Question page with no guidance. — ChrisF ♦ 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tarick Welling
@HereticMonkey if you are going to close this as a duplicate because of the other question then at least add the reference to the answer I cited which says that it shouldn't be as they don't have the copyright — Tarick Welling 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by terdon
Could you clarify what you consider a heuristic and what not? I don't see any conflict here. What am I missing? — terdon 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ChrisMM
"Requires editing" shouldn't be your default option. If you don't know what to do with it, simply hit "Skip". I see you've already said that you should be using this more often. When I look at the "Help and Improvement" queue, it is filled mostly with things that are either fine, or should have been marked as unsalvageable. Very little (at least of what I see) can be edited by anyone other than the author. — ChrisMM 7 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@terdon: Data points are things which are measured, like polls, surveys and site data that can be queried, then analyzed to produce a numeric result in a consistent fashion. A heuristic is going to get you a result but won't be consistent (e.g. talking to ten people in a room about how they feel about X). *We are outnumbered - woefully outnumbered - ** when it comes to how much people hate having their questions closed or downvoted, and my only waking nightmare is that the data from those users completely overrules the very real heuristic that doing those things with questions is **good. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@BrakNicku Let's maybe wait for some discussion to happen before making a change somewhere on main. — TylerH 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by terdon
Oh. I see no reason why used impressions can't be quantified too. They'd be one more data point. But OK. I couldn't understand which part you were objecting to. — terdon 54 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pchandrasekar
Thanks for the question @scohe001 - We have ideas for how to better integrate technical content from across SE with the knowledge sharing that happens on SO, and vice versa. For the broader SE community discussing non-technical topics, we have no plans to change anything at the moment. — Pchandrasekar ♦ 36 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick A
@TylerH And yet the edit that originally added them didn't have to wait for some discussion? — Nick A 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scohe001
Quick clarification @Pchandrasekar: I just edited the post most recently. Mad Scientist is the one with the question :) — scohe001 23 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Steve Bennett
G'day. Hoping for the best, but I don't think you're going to get far without directly addressing the sacking of community managers and ignoring everything that has been said on meta in the last 6 months. — Steve Bennett 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@NickA Not sure how you draw that conclusion. First, the post from Shog indicated a direction, not a question: the excel-vba tag was going to be removed. Second, the edits were made three months after Shog posted about it on Meta. Third, Shog's post on Meta referenced half a dozen other discussions on the issue over the years. There was plenty of discussion. That this question was even asked simply underscores the fact that Shog ought to have acted on it long, long ago (every time he was asked about it he would say it was on his list, but nowhere near the top). — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@terdon: I will have to agree to disagree. Enumerating the heuristic of whether or not morale is low or rations are poor or is the slipperiest slope you can find yourself on. As a software architect, I believe that the recommendations I make for technologies should be borne out of my actual usage of them, and it should be an educated recommendation based on the pains I've run into when using them. If one who is making decisions doesn't experience the same pain, then the decision doesn't feel like one that's meant to help with that pain. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by terdon
You, personally? That seems a little specific :) — terdon 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BrakNicku
@TylerH as already noted - I do not have privilege to change anything. Just subbmitted a suggestion with a link to this discussion. — BrakNicku 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pchandrasekar
Along with data points mentioned in today's post, we also keep a close eye on question quality. The blog below was our most recent look at the topic, and we feel good about the direction things are heading. This post also includes a link for a deeper dive into how we define "question quality." stackoverflow.blog/2019/11/12/…Pchandrasekar ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by terdon
@Pchandrasekar first of all, thank you for coming here and engaging with us, that is very appreciated. Could you explain what you consider "technical"? For example, Bioinformatics is a very technical site, but it isn't really about software, as such. Same for sites like Physics. Conversely, Super User or Unix & Linux are both techie and IT-related, but have little to do with programming. — terdon 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Pchandrasekar: Would this metric not be too simple going forward? This has been, in the past, a data point which has flown in the face of well-established heuristics. — Makoto 22 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
There were two previous questions asked about C++ and the icon, What happened to the C++ tag? and Current c++ tag icon, both asked several minutes before yours, and both closed as duplicates of the same question. You'll note that neither author asked the closers of their questions to do additional work for them... — Heretic Monkey 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick A
@TylerH Pending implies will, if you can find a single source that promises that the tag will be removed then by all means, however shogs post is tagged discussion, it's looking for arguments against it, and it got them. The timeline says nothing about removing the tag only covering a concern for if it were to be removed. Simple as, a question was asked about what users thought regarding possible removal, and a plan on what to do until a decision was made was highlighted. Nothing more — Nick A 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tinkeringbell
If you want engaged users, putting this somewhere where anyone with an association bonus or site participation can post doesn't seem too weird to me. Also... I'm lazy, let MSO have the moderating of this one XD — Tinkeringbell 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Pchandrasekar: I now see that this is in context to the new question form. I have thoughts on this, too.Makoto 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jcolebrand
@Pchandrasekar so are you contemplating the idea of merging the technical sites (ex: Database Administrators and Stack Overflow)? — jcolebrand 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by scohe001
@terdon that sounds like enough for it's own "answer" here. — scohe001 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gparyani
@Tinkeringbell But why require SO participation for users who don't have enough reputation for an association bonus? — gparyani 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@Tinkeringbell: I think we have fewer pitchforks here too. At least, the few who had pitchforks are...um...otherwise preoccupied? — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juan M
On this post Julia wrote: "Step 2 of our rollout focused on consolidating and organizing validation warnings, and during this step, the quality gap between the baseline and experiment groups decreased to virtually zero. We fixed the regression in question quality by iterating in this more flexible framework. We see similar results during the test if we measure bad quality instead of good quality." — Juan M ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by LShaver
Thanks for coming here and taking the time to do this! — LShaver 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Vogel612
get off of your soapbox. Alienating experts in the making in droves is not an acceptable price to pay for retaining current experts. This is true for small companies and teams as well as for larger communities. Even experts are replaceable — Vogel612 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
@JuanM: I see that. Could I also slice that data up by traffic volume or by tag? That's what I've been asking about for about a year now. — Makoto 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by IMSoP
@Pchandrasekar When you say "we have no plans to change anything", do you mean "we will not be investing any time and effort"? The blog post definitely gives the impression that the concept of Stack Exchange as a broad community of sites on different topics is not a priority for the company right now; is that impression correct and deliberate? — IMSoP 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by SomeRandomPerson
I feel like having some input from you would be good on this question, there seems to be misunderstanding somewhere as to terminology in your podcast; meta.stackexchange.com/questions/342646/…SomeRandomPerson 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tinkeringbell
@Makoto that's a good reason too. Parts of MSE have definitely been not so nice lately. — Tinkeringbell 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juan M
We will engage on MSE as well. The blog post was referencing Stack Overflow and we wanted to keep discussion of it here primarily but the CMs will help watch MSE. — Juan M ♦ 49 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by jcolebrand
@ChrisF valid. I hear you. And some don't monitor the tags for their own product, I agree. — jcolebrand 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Stephen Rauch
@terdon, Doesn't seem too specific to me. He can really only affect his own behavior. — Stephen Rauch 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Scortchi - Reinstate Monica
@Tinkeringbell: Not everyone wants an SO account, some of them because they want to limit who has access to their e-mail & IP addresses. — Scortchi - Reinstate Monica 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
I hope this question is thoroughly answered and not ignored as it's fresh on the mind of a lot of folks. — Script47 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Everton Lenger
This post is featured, but doesn't appear to me in the sidebar (maybe because there are too many featured posts?). Wouldn't it be a good idea if some mod de-featured another post to get more attention to this one, from the CEO? — Everton Lenger 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by smtrejo says Reinstate Monica
@Rainb Ironically I was considering to move to Experts Exchange before reading your comment. — smtrejo says Reinstate Monica 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@Vogel612: Thanks for the vote of confidence. — Robert Harvey just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
@NickA Is there a problem with just waiting for a reaction from SO staff? The question requesting an update was posted an hour ago. How about giving them some time to respond? The question was not directed at the community; I did not tag it as a discussion, but as support. — Cindy Meister just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
Don't you mean: "I would like to learn what "the community" (i.e. we) did wrong that made it less productive."? — Mari-Lou A 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tarick Welling
@HereticMonkey ... maybe because it is different? maybe because I'm saying it shouldn't be there because X instead of asking wtf why is the logo there. Alas, I've added it as an answer to the prexisting one about C. (my post time was before it was changed to C++ so pardon me for thinking it was unique and giving the reason why it shouldn't be there) — Tarick Welling 33 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user220944
I've never used my 190k rep to get a job. I hope nobody else amasses rep thinking it's good for anything in the real world, it's really not. Anybody can get rep on SO. It's amassed by participating, it's not a good indicator of a particularly good or desirable employee. — user220944 ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Catija
Experts in what? It seems like you may be referring to two groups of experts - SMEs and people who know how to write good content. Which type of expert are you focusing on here? — Catija ♦ 19 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Nick A
@CindyMeister I'm not talking about your question, I'm talking about shogs, the question requesting an update was posted 5 months ago, you even linked to it — Nick A 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peilonrayz
This is not my Meta, nor is it Meta Meta. Why is this posted on Stack Overflow's Meta. Do the other sites not matter? — Peilonrayz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ForceBru
Now the C++ tag looks like a Qt home page, or an ad for Qt: imgur.com/a/SyzUAsiForceBru 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GoodDeeds
IIRC the C++ tag description had a large Qt logo as well for the past many days. — GoodDeeds 10 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by BrakNicku
@CindyMeister the main question is: should staff make decisions about tags or community??? If you are waiting for staff response only it might take more than 2 years now — BrakNicku 34 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by manassehkatz
@user220944 It is sort-of like IQ (except even less reliable because you self-select to participate and can game the system in SO (pun intended) many ways). But using IQ as an example - there can be Mensa members who you would not want as an employee, and "ordinary IQ" people who make excellent employees, even in relatively technical fields. — manassehkatz 45 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bob
Could you adjust the y-axis on some of those plots so zero is visible on all of them? It's critical for getting a sense of scale so trends can be accurately interpreted. — bob 45 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tiago Martins Peres
The Chairman has a different opinion than both of you though. — Tiago Martins Peres 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by S.S. Anne
Yeah. Qt should be displayed on the Qt tag. — S.S. Anne 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tiago Martins Peres
@manassehkatz And to claim «He can't (nor can anyone else here) do anything about what a mythical imaginary made-up reputation number translates to in the real world» reveals that you have informationthat others don't have. I don't think that's true though. — Tiago Martins Peres just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gbianchi
@Pchandrasekar technical sites also means international sites? that are not adressed anywhere, and they rank high in Q&A... — gbianchi 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by PM 2Ring
I didn't downvote, Tiago, but I don't think your post is very relevant to pchandrasekar's post. I suggest you delete it. — PM 2Ring 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
@Mari-LouA no, not really. It is much easier to pin-point what I did wrong and coach me on that. Others will recognize my behavior and can decide if they want to follow the same advice. I don't think talking about "the community" is much useful, as there hardly is one, single "the community". — rene 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tiago Martins Peres
@PM2Ring I think the opposite... It touches both the jobs side of StackOverflow and the users. In light of the blog post and the question, I find it OK. — Tiago Martins Peres 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Raedwald
I guess you are unaware, but Monica and SEI reached a settlement. The terms of the settlement probably restrict SEI and Monica from saying more on the matter. So it is very unlikely that he will address that issue here, now. — Raedwald 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pchandrasekar
Yes, we fully intend to kick off a new round of moderator elections on the sites that need them. We're still working through updating that process, but want to be sure our communities have the support they require to thrive. — Pchandrasekar ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by manassehkatz
"want to be sure our communities have the support they require to thrive" Then why have CMs been fired recently? — manassehkatz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
'It will be a pleasure to work with you on making this community better.' - I hope this comment doesn't get deleted because I don't mean offence by it but I highly doubt we'll be working with him. This seems more like a formality than anything else. But, I'd happily be proved wrong. 'Throw a dog a bone and it'll stop barking' — Script47 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gdoron is supporting Monica
@Raedwald, I'm fully aware of the opaque settlement, but I'm pretty sure the settlement doesn't prevent him from issuing an apology. — gdoron is supporting Monica 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@manassehkatz I doubt comments will be replied to, post answer. It's your best chance. — Script47 47 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bryan Krause
@Pchandrasekar I believe this question was about the community managers, the employees, rather than the volunteer moderators. The numbers of each have decreased recently. — Bryan Krause 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cindy Meister
@BrakNicku It's not as if "community" were unanimous on the subject - far from it. And SE apparently had a reason for wanting to "slim things down" or the topic wouldn't have been brought up by shog as something the company wanted to do. Patience is a virtue... — Cindy Meister 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by cs95
Thank you for engaging with the community and giving us the opportunity for respectful discourse, something that has been severely lacking with upper management for months now. — cs95 32 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
About MSO/MSE as the place for the main post (versus the link to the main post): Please don't get too hung up on it. There was deliberation about this internally, and and arguments made in each direction. I can understand both sides. If you don't want to reply on MSO, just reply on MSE. It will be read as well. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by manassehkatz
@Script47 You are probably correct. But I am replying with a comment to a comment - the exact text doesn't exist elsewhere. — manassehkatz 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by weegee
@Script47 Actually, I now recognize that this looks like its formality but that's wasn't my intention there. I happen to write the post in a certain flow that I forgot about the actual disaster. I have edited it out if it looked like a formality, I don't want it to look that way. — weegee 11 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Lewis
@gdoronissupportingMonica It actually might - issuing an apology would be tantamount to accepting responsibility - and from what was made public of the settlement, it seems that they are putting it down to (mostly) a misunderstanding on Monica's part. — Lewis 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gparyani
@YaakovEllis Would be nice to know what those arguments were, and why the pros of posting here outweighed the pros of posting on MSE. — gparyani 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by ColeValleyGirl
@gdoronissupportingMonica Pretty sure it does. They've reached an acceptable stand-off where nobody will go further than what has already been said. — ColeValleyGirl 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Juan M
We are looking at ways to restructure the workload for our CM team. We know that we’re in for quite a stretch but the leadership is coming together to create plans for community support. We’ll keep sharing about this as we get more updates. — Juan M ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
@Pchandrasekar should I expect a comment addressing the other points I raised? — Script47 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
Qt pays 2 million dollars to get their logo there.... — rene 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pchandrasekar
Thanks for the question. Respectfully, we do not believe that welcoming, teaching, and empowering new generations of beginners is mutually exclusive with building a quality archive. As noted in one of my comments above, we also pay attention to question quality and have been encouraged by recent data. You can check out our research on this topic and how we define question quality at the link below. stackoverflow.blog/2019/11/12/…Pchandrasekar ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Script47
'Respectfully, we do not believe that welcoming, teaching, and empowering new generations of beginners is mutually exclusive with building a quality archive.' - Please, STOP using these buzz words, also, respectfully, the goal of this site was not to help new beginners or to empower them. Those were side effects. — Script47 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by manassehkatz
@Raedwald You are likely correct. But the boss needs to know - directly in response to his post - that this is still a very big issue among the <s>peasants</s> users. — manassehkatz 27 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by drescherjm
You should see a non-blurry logo appear next to the C++ tag I would still call that a bug. The non blurry Qt icon should only appear on the Qt tag. — drescherjm 9 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by C&#225;ssio Renan
C++ is not a Qt product. I (and I assume many people) expected the icon to be removed from there, not improved. — Cássio Renan 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by C8H10N4O2
This post does not add a lot. There was already a link to the Blog on the sidebar (where Hot Meta Posts used to live). The other link is a Podcast with OP discussing the same stuff. Now that this post has been featured, it also is indirectly linked via "Featured on Meta." Thus OP is occupying 3 out of the 4 sidebar slots. — C8H10N4O2 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by nvoigt
@Catija For me those two groups overlap heavily. I would probably not recognize a subject matter expert if not for their good content. But if someone who insists on calling me "dude" posts something that solves my SSL problem, my prime directive is getting my boss a secure connection, that's what I'm here for. If I'm treated nicely in the process, that is added benefit, if I'm not, I'll just complain that the internet is evil... but I'll take the solution anyway. — nvoigt 58 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by formerlyknownas_463035818
I dont think anybody was seriously worried about the blurriness — formerlyknownas_463035818 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by HolyBlackCat
Your colleague here said that one must own copyright to the tag name to be able to change its icon. Is it no longer the case? — HolyBlackCat just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Aaron Hall
I think it would be interesting to hear Prashanth's response, but clearly the community disagrees. My own opinion: It differentiates you in a crowded marketplace. I don't have numbers to back it up, something Tiago is asking for - but I also answer the question "Would a high stack exchange rep make a difference in a job interview?" here: academia.stackexchange.com/a/61759/9518Aaron Hall ♦ 44 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by George M Reinstate Monica
The point of course @C8H10N4O2 being in part to mask the stuff that SE would rather people not pay attention to — George M Reinstate Monica 54 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yaakov Ellis
@gparyani sorry, not going to happen here. It will only lead to people saying why their preferred argument is correct. And in the end, it is what it is. I just want to emphasize that we are sensitive to the feelings here, and sorry that we can't satisfy everyone. That said, I would direct you more to the content than the location as a subject for discussion. — Yaakov Ellis ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by P.P.
Next: A nude woman's (or man's) icon on Javascript tag because porn-hub sponsors it (and their website provides tools to improve Javascript while you watch porn) ;-) — P.P. 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by P.P.
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Tiago Martins Peres
Thank you @AaronHall I like to believe that too. — Tiago Martins Peres 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Bob__
@formerlyknownas_463035818 Well, maybe the ones who paid. — Bob__ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
I would like to give an answer, but I do not dare. The amount of flack users get when they don't agree with the mainstream meta community is difficult to bear. This is something that needs to be dealt with. IMO I'd change the content and purpose of meta and crack down on harassment and abuse on the site. The behaviour on MSE of late has been deplorable. People need to be able to participate without being hounded or routinely downvoted. As with comment upvotes, people can quickly feel isolated from the site. The only way you will attract different opinions is to make it safe for people to do so — Yvette Colomb 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by HolyBlackCat
@JD-Stack Thanks! — HolyBlackCat just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Zev Spitz
It's important not to get hung up on the mention of the company's treatment of Monica. There are many other breaches in community trust that the company must take steps to address; some noted here and many not. — Zev Spitz 52 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by JD-Stack
@HolyBlackCat (and others) - Thanks for pointing this out. We're checking whether this policy still applies, and if so: what happened with this campaign. For the time being, we've removed the logo. — JD-Stack 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
@Yvette Colomb: I 100% agree. The standard software is not a good fit for a meta site (to the extend the software is part of the problem). The mob downvoting is a real problem. — Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by TylerH
@AaronHall I don't think a negative score will prevent the CEO from commenting on the answer if he really wants to. — TylerH 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by drescherjm
the C++ tag description had a large Qt logo as well for the past many days. This part I don't really mind. I know that StackExchange has to make money to support the sites. — drescherjm 1 min ago
 

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