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7:26 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@RobertHarvey see my edits. TL;DR, I'd like to see some numbers to more accurately gauge the impact of the policy, and I think some sort of transparency will be required if this were to be implemented because otherwise it will only lead to more drama. — l4mpi 1 min ago
 
room topic changed to Meta Stack Overflow Comment Archive: A comprehensive archive of all Meta Stack Overflow Comments. Currently Running the SOBotics Boson Tracker to fetch comments. [archive] [comments,] [meta,]
 
Boson started
Tracking comments on meta.stackoverflow as directed in SOBotics Workshop
 
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Magisch
Can you provide a link to the context? — Magisch 33 secs ago
 
7:55 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Shadow Wizard
@BSMP well, that person is not SE employee. We can't possibly expect SE to demand from all mods to keep silent on Twitter. It's just ridiculous. — Shadow Wizard 27 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by BSMP
@Magisch They are complaining about this new answer from a mod saying edits to make language gender neutral are OK. Apparently they also said something about it on Twitter. — BSMP 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Magisch
sounds a bit like a nothing burger. People make miniscule edits to change punctuation or take it or leave it capitalisation all the time, so whatever. — Magisch 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
@BSMP did you mean to link to Tim Post's (SE staff) answer instead, which contains the link to the tweet on the comment? — Andrew T. 32 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by BSMP
@AndrewT. Ah, thank you. Sorry for the confusion. — BSMP 44 secs ago
 
8:25 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@rene triple backtick with language works for me on the main site. That's Firefox 68.0.1, if it matters. I do have to wait for a bit for the highlight to kick in, though, — VLAZ 34 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Raedwald
Popular questions attracting poor quality answers should be protected. — Raedwald 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by DavidG
@Cypher Could you explain exactly what we could have done better? To me it reads like a lot of people explaining things (in a civil manner) while the OP just responds with "no" without justification. — DavidG 14 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
Hi chat room, I'm famous! :D — Andrew T. 45 secs ago
 
room topic changed to Meta Stack Overflow Comment Archive: A comprehensive archive of all Meta Stack Overflow Comments. Currently Running the SOBotics Boson Tracker to fetch comments. For relevant chat and discussion, please use the Workshop: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/197325 [archive] [comments,] [meta,]
 
8:41 AM
room topic changed to Meta Stack Overflow Comment Archive: A comprehensive archive of all Meta Stack Overflow Comments. Currently Running the SOBotics Boson Tracker to fetch comments. Please do not request access, for relevant chat and discussion, please use the Workshop: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/197325 [archive] [comments] Meta Stack Overflow
 
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Gourav
@MeganRisdal I just talked about SOBotics for just reference, since there are times in other chat rooms when there's a need to look at when a person responds to the other and we need to have a look at what specific time the message was posted. — Gourav 24 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@Mari-LouA the real tragedy is that it deepens my feeling of being excluded from SO... — VLAZ 31 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Makyen
@Mari-LouA I don't think that the user made a choice to use social media instead of MSO. Social media may just be their normal mode of interacting. That user has no publicly visible interaction with MSO at all (no non-deleted questions, no non-deleted answers, no non-deleted comments, no votes indicated, no helpful flags, no edits). They may have visited MSO, but they haven't interacted much, if at all. They also have no helpful flags on SO. It looks like they are just completely unaware of how the SE platform is intended to resolve issues, or just choose not to use those methods, at all. — Makyen 39 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by l4mpi
While I agree with the edit being a very small improvement, I downvoted as I heavily disagree with "We do not have so many editors that we can afford to be picky about what we allow to be improved on a post". In my experience, we have a lot of editors, but most of them only create a lot of useless noise - at least when I still reviewed the suggested edits queue it was rare to see something worthwhile, but instead I saw tons of drivel, well-meant edits to off-topic posts, small spelling fixes which ignore other glaring issues with posts, etc. Encouraging more trivial edits isn't useful IMO. — l4mpi 39 secs ago
 
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@RobertHarvey I see you un-featured this post, could you please explain the reasoning for doing so? — l4mpi 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by tfrascaroli
But Megan, you say nothing about Meta. Sure, you say that "we have a huge history of feedback shared by folks on Meta", that "informed by [...] pre-existing Meta feedback", also "Our CM team [...] as a liaison between the Community product team and Meta" and "[...] myself fortunate to have access to [...] resources [...], including Meta". You're basically not addressing @Shog9's comment, nor adding anything (new) to the way we already saw meta. Besides, you mainly focus on "past Meta posts and glory" (paraphrased), but say nothing about moving forward. Oh, and welcome :D — tfrascaroli 53 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by greg-449
This is Meta Stack Overflow, for discussions about how Stack Overflow works. Your question is off-topic here and belongs on the main site. — greg-449 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
Mods can already see deleted comments, 10k users can see deleted question, new privilege (at 15 or 20k) to be able to see deleted comments ? — Tensibai 13 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Magisch
@Tensibai Seems like a good idea. But for now i've just made an archive room, so technically everyone can see all comments now. — Magisch 38 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Magisch
Not a duplicate but an interesting discussion on meta stack exchange about this: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/328160/…Magisch 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by deceze
@Trilarion "[..] huge grey area [..]" – There hardly is a textbook rule for that. It needs to be judged on a case by case basis. The guideline is pretty much whether the comment serves any lasting purpose in relation to the subject matter of the post. Will a future visitor in a month or a year gain any benefit from that comment, e.g. because it points out flaws or links to helpful resources? Or is it just ephemeral noise which nobody wants to have to wade through? — deceze ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
This would have the advantage of being still attached to the original post. — Tensibai 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Magisch
@Tensibai fair point, but I think we both know getting dev time for that is unlikely rn. — Magisch 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
Welcome on the site! Simply re-post your question on the stackoverflow.com . It is meta.stackoverflow.com , here you can make questions/answers about the site, but not about programming itself. — peterh 34 secs ago
 
9:47 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Edoardo
This question has been debated for more than 10 years, only a poll could bring something new to it, twitter is a good idea but the poster should have some 10.000 followers (all programmers) to be of any use. — Edoardo 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
What else would you use? — Cerbrus 10 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Edoardo
@TylerH Stack Overflow’s annual Developer Survey is not about demographics only: there is a technology section that last year even bothered asking "Developer Opinions on Blockchain Technology" and a lot of questions about "Correlated Technologies" — Edoardo 26 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by yivi
"suits more"? That's a pretty solid justification. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Black Thunder
@NickA Because this is not Stackoverflow.Stackexchange.com . Though its a SE site — Black Thunder 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Nick A
Blue/White is used for pretty much everything clickable on the site, why would the Ask Question button be orange? — Nick A 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Nick A
@BlackThunder I don't understand that reasoning whatsoever — Nick A 55 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by David Cullen
@Cerbrus Is there some really good reason that we are reusing a question-and-answer interface for these things? — David Cullen 55 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
(Development) costs. Maintainance. Hosting. — Cerbrus 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by David Cullen
@Cerbrus Are you saying Stack Exchange Inc. does not have money to add features to the site? — David Cullen 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by yivi
I can understand support, since it makes sense to crowd-source most of these requests. Support can be given by the regular community users or elected moderators. For support beyond that, users should be directed to the contact-form, as they are. For bugs and feature-requests, it's a completely different matter. SE should have a proper bug tracker for their developers to deal directly. The community doesn't need to be involved in this, beyond "voting" to indicate "we'd like this to be prioritized". — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Andrew T.
 
10:29 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Steven Spyrka
@Cypher Exactly. I don't visit the site every day and I don't know if my adblocker shows the banner to me. I want to participate. How should one know about the survey? — Steven Spyrka 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by gnat
@Makoto do you mean, Twitter-driven development strikes back? — gnat just now
 
10:45 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Raedwald
"There is lots of useful information on topics in the comments of posts": I think we should regard that as a problem. Comments should not hold important information. Isn't that what questions and answers are for? — Raedwald 15 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by nyedidikeke
@DollarAkshay: I get your point. Thanks for the analogy: it helps set the right context. 🤩 — nyedidikeke 50 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@ShadowWizard I don't think it's ridiculous to have standards for somebody representing your company when they represent your company. I don't think anybody really expects SE to police every single action mods take outside here . — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@davidcullen the blog post introducing meta from 2009 calls it an experiment. Practically speaking I don’t believe there have ever been resources tied to iterating on that experiment or determining whether it’s a failed experiment or not. There have been minor features around the edges but never a holistic “is a Q&A platform really the best software for community to discuss issues.” — George Stocker ♦ 40 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@DavidCullen probably doesn't want to add features that aren't part of the core focus - Q&A format. Jeff left because he was making a discussion platform. I agree that the Q&A is not really appropriate - CodeReview is stuck with this as well when it's not very natural or useful format but...it is what it is, I guess. Besides, a [bug] being downvoted might mean the community doesn't think it's important. — VLAZ 50 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mithrandir
@VLAZ - a.) Mods explicitly do not represent the company - it says so explicitly in the moderator agreement. b.) SO has laid out some guidelines for responding to stuff on social media for mods, but the details aren't public. — Mithrandir 30 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Magisch
@Mithrandir this question is about a tweet and subsequent response by a staff member / multiple staff members, from the context I could gather. — Magisch 14 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by David Cullen
@Cerbrus For support, I might use a help desk. For defect reports, I might use a defect tracking system. For feature requests, I might silently divert them to the bitbucket. For discussion, I might use a discussion system. I find it astonishing that on a web site for software professionals, the best idea for handling these different items was to overload a system that was designed for something else. Maybe in the early years, that made sense. The idea that it was never questioned since then is quite startling to me. — David Cullen 8 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Luis Rico
The question is perfectly valid (I've answered this question many times in the past). So duplicates are valid? — Luis Rico 55 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Shadow Wizard
Well as long as it's all so vague and without details I can't really see any problem. — Shadow Wizard 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Magisch
@ShadowWizard According to what I've read and found the context was deliberately omitted to avoid diverting undue attention to the incident itself. It's not that Makoto doesn't want to provide context, it's a courtesy to the employee that is involved. — Magisch 26 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
What makes you think it was never questioned? We all know Meta isn’t that good for these things. — Cerbrus just now
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by David Cullen
@Cerbrus The fact that this isn't a duplicate might have led me to believe it wasn't recently questioned. And who's "we"? I didn't know. I didn't even realize until recently that meta was used for all of these things. I always thought meta was used to discuss Stack Overflow and to get rid of tags. — David Cullen 22 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by deceze
bugs should certainly go into a bug tracker, but feature-requests often involve more or less substantial changes to the platform, in which the community should have and wants to have a say. Of course nowadays this often ends in a draw and nothing being done since nobody can come to a consensus. Typical design by committee situation. — deceze ♦ 56 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Cerbrus
It's come up quite often that we need a proper bug tracker, and a proper support system... — Cerbrus 58 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by yivi
@deceze Most of the products I use, have the same system to track FRs and bugs, and it makes sense to me. Meta could be left to discuss potential FRs, not to actually submit/track them. It would make more sense that way, IMO. — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by deceze
Yes, once an FR actually makes it into the "accepted" stage, it should go into a company internal tracking tool. And I'm sure it is. I doubt the mothership is working on anything without it going through some proper tracker. The thing is that hardly anything makes it to the "accepted" stage if it goes through a discussion first, so that's all somewhat moot. And random users being able to submit FRs directly into the company internal tracker is maybe not a good idea if it involves substantial platform changes. — deceze ♦ 28 secs ago
 
11:51 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Stack Overflow has supported live refresh for 7 years now, so something is wrong on your side if it doesn't work for you. See Which browsers are officially supported, and what else do I need? on the main Meta site for what requirements you need to meet for the live refresh feature to work. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Dan Bron
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@DanBron keep in mind the whistle blower isn't in a witness protection program either. I trust you to not go on a hunt but do you trust everuone else that reads that? — rene 22 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Dan Bron
@rene Alright, fair enough. I’m deleting my comments. — Dan Bron 17 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by takendarkk
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@Raedwald Sure - on the main site. The main site isn't about policies. Meta is about policies, so there's necessarily going to be some debate about it. And the conversation that ensues is important. Important enough to keep around, so you can see what led to various positions and so you can gauge how popular certain viewpoints are. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by daxim
@BradLarson, can you retrieve the comment for me? — daxim 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ
I'm not sure I'm rehashing what BradLarson said but only moderator status grants you the ability to see deleted comments, and the ability to undelete them. — M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by yivi
Again, I do not quite agree. I believe a public tracker, both for bugs and FRs works fine. Many companies do have them. E.g. this. Only the employees can change status, mark as other tickets as related, etc. The community can vote and/or comment, but in the end the having the whole Q&A process/format for every single FR seems inadequate to me. — yivi 29 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by BPDESILVA
My reputation points are not being updated on stackoverflow — BPDESILVA 39 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by usr
It's funny that staff or mods often say "we care about your opinion" but then do not act on it. It's not enough to give us a warm hug and try to make us feel good. Many users want specific changes. — usr 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by usr
"Snarky comments about how the company won't fix the issue no matter what we say" Well, comments like that are not mere feelings. They are true to an extent. Instead of fixing the reason for discontent, the expression of discontent is now prevented. — usr 52 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
That is a bit too broad to be answered I think and I'm not sure if that will fly on main. It certainly won't fly here as you are on Meta. — rene 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by deceze
Then probably a lot of discussion would be happening on that tracker, which defeats the purpose and clogs up actual tools used for development, which will make developers very unhappy. Let the discussion happen here, and if something makes it through, it should be handled invisibly from the public henceforth. — deceze ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by usr
Having come back to Stack Overflow after years of pause I am appalled to find the site in such a state. I now understand why you disabled "hot meta posts". You want fewer eyeballs on this mess. A civil war is in full force. — usr 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Turamarth
Regarding the shortcomings of bugs and feature-requests we have several tags that give information about the status i.e. status-bydesign or status-completedTuramarth 1 min ago
 
1:11 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by jdehesa
@Turamarth Yes, that is true, although again it is abusing a Q/A feature to compensate for the lack of another feature. It is not obvious how it works, specially for less experienced meta users, and I cannot "watch" these updates. But anyway, as I said it may be good enough as it is, I just mean meta feels like a very special kind of Q/A with its own idiosyncrasies that may appear unnatural or difficult to grasp for outsiders. — jdehesa 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by u84six
This has never worked for me. I don't get a popup, and TAB just goes to the next fields. — u84six 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Lightness Races in Orbit
@Servy FWIW I've definitely witnessed it. Only once or twice over the years, and obviously I'm not going to name names, but the notion that it never happens and could not ever possibly happen is distinctly laughable. — Lightness Races in Orbit 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Lightness Races in Orbit
And for me a key point is that, though this sort of thing would be the company's undisputed prerogative if we were customers, we're not customers.. At the end of the day it's still their prerogative, but I don't think they understand why it rubs everybody so badly and the why is that we are the product, not customers. We're the ones creating the value. We're the ones generating the revenue (ultimately). For free! I worry that the company takes us for granted almost as much as the "help vampires" (sorry) do... perhaps more. — Lightness Races in Orbit 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by EJoshuaS
You have 5 Meta posts yourself; how are you not one of the people who thinks that your opinion is important? I assume that you post here hoping that people will agree with whatever opinion you're expressing. (If not, I'm not even sure why you're posting this in the first place). — EJoshuaS 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by GrumpyCrouton
Is there any way to hide any links to Meta that may come up on Main? I don't think I want to involve myself in meta at all anymore, I feel like it's a complete waste of time because it doesn't matter how the community feels about anything it seems. I feel as though our opinions are suppressed, and even when they aren't, they are simply ignored. — GrumpyCrouton 12 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mike M.
It's on their network profile, too. — Mike M. 17 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Rob
@MikeM. Oh, I didn't catch that. Unfortunately I can't clear that myself. I'll ask a CM to look into it. Thanks! — Rob ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
"No ability to "watch" or "subscribe" to issue updates." You can favorite a question to be updated about changes. "Answer comes at the end of the resolution process." That's completely up to employees; they recently went through feature-requests and tagged some as status-review, which is an interim status. The same could be done for bugs. — Heretic Monkey 31 secs ago
 
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
On the other hand, if you're less productive but your questions are better formed, then that's a net gain as a whole for the site. I agree there's still room for improvement, the choose tag first part is, I hope, to get templates by tag in the future and makes sense, you should be at least aware of what language you'll ask about. Does it make sense ? — Tensibai 23 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — George Stocker ♦ 44 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
I edited your post to expound on the clarifications you add in your comments. — George Stocker ♦ 5 secs ago
 
2:25 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Christian Wolf
Partially. I do not always ask related to a certain language. Many of my questions are either related to frameworks (which make it hard to create useful templates) or concepts (which are even broader). Also I tend to say that the personal benefit for me is comparably small. I know what a MWE is and try to give them when applicable. However there are many cases in my personal experience where I want to avoid a strict form of the question.... — Christian Wolf 24 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Christian Wolf
... This can be for example the case if I have a question that is quite detailed about a certain point but I want to give the reader a chance to focus on the topic in the forst time he reads it. SO I oftenly write a short "abstrct" (1 paragraph plus detailed question) and then the (not so) glory details of my question and what I thought/did/found yet. Doing it the other way around causes often quick shoots as answers because the question was not 100% analyzed. — Christian Wolf 47 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by scohe001
Don't stars on a message already hold the same purpose as upvotes on a comment? — scohe001 39 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
Well, for frameworks, they usually have tags as well, so I fail to see how giving a tag first can be impending in writing a question, at worst it force you to consider what the question is really about. Now for the code and question order, if you're comfortable enough you can dismiss the wizard entirely (as you found) and I don't remember something preventing you to re order things before submitting. To write an answer, I prefer to have relative datas first and the question at the end, that's less scroll to refer to the question when answering. So there's no ideal format here :) — Tensibai 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
This is pretty accurate. The Company has always owned the values (even when it was just Jeff and Joel setting it up); they attracted a group of people who shared those values. Now those values are changing, and likely those that can't change with those values will stop participating as much and be supplanted by those that do share those values. — George Stocker ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
So the mod policy is acted and not debatable ? Mind to link to something as reference for the "Now that chat will be used more in meta" ? — Tensibai 8 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@GeorgeStocker yet another perfect example why all of this is a bad idea: Your link now leads nowhere because the comment was either removed or moved to chat. And while you as a mod can theoretically edit that link later, normal users can't (at least not if 5 minutes have passed). So just to use your own logic right here, if what you said in that comment was truly relevant, it should have been posted as its own separate answer instead. As you apparently don't even follow this logic yourself, I don't see how you can justify forcing it on other people. — l4mpi 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@l4mpi on desktop it leads directly to the comment. it's still there. The mobile UX is a bit wonky and doesn't appropriately direct to where the comment is. Are you on mobile? There are quite a few bugs in mobile navigation that I myself am experiencing. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Suragch
@u84six, Do you start it with the @ sign? — Suragch 29 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
@GeorgeStocker I think on your desktop it leads to your browser cache, doesn't work for me neither and bring me to the question title on chrome under windows. fully agree with l4mpi that's showing another case where it's harmful and not solving anything — Tensibai 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by l4mpi
@GeorgeStocker when I open that link in a new tab, it opens answers page 2 but stays on top of the page, as described by Tensibai. This is a bit older FF version on linux. Might be a bug due to it being on page 2. But none of this diminishes my main point - if anything you said in that comment was of relevance, why did you not write a separate answer instead? — l4mpi 8 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
That's interesting, @Tensibai; I've passed that along. It also deserves to be a bug report. Realistically, however, we're not going to rescind an entire site policy on a bug. — George Stocker ♦ 45 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
We can either agree with that vision and work towards it, or disagree and stop participating. That are not the only two options, let's not fall into a false dilemma fallacy. We can also argue that the reason the site is successful in the first place is because of how we've been running things and the value that our experienced users have put into it. Take those things away, let the quality slip, and no one will want to visit anymore. The VC's understandably want money, but they don't understand what made us valuable in the first place, and it's up to us to make them understand by being vocal — mason 33 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Izkata
@MartijnPieters If anything, Houseman's original comment was bringing it back on track after Makoto veered into politics. — Izkata 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
@GeorgeStocker Which policy ? I'm just saying the same as l4mpi, eat your own dog food as you propose here and set that in an answer instead of commenting with a link to another comment. (BTW I don't think this has even been something ok as 'comments can disappear, keep things where they are related to') — Tensibai 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mason You've been heard; and the place to continue to make yourself heard about that is on meta.stackexchange.com. As a programmer community there comes a point where complaining about something you can't change is just downright unproductive. I think we're getting to that point. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
No, I have not been heard, because the company is still continuing down this bad path. I get that you don't agree with me, but stop trying to silence me by sending me elsewhere. I participate in Stack Overflow, I have reputation and a voice here. I don't have one on Meta.SE or any other site, and I'm going to express my disagreement here. Moderators should not be trying to hide our disappointment, don't try to silence us. That's not what you were elected to do. — mason 34 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
“I’m going to keep saying it until they do what I want them to do.” I wish you the best of luck with that, but until you can show how the site you want makes them the money they need to stay in business, pay back VCs, and not sell the company, it’s going to be difficult for you to change a business. — George Stocker ♦ 40 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Izkata
@MadaraUchiha Well, at +88/-247, it's shifted quite close to that arbitrary example since this answer was posted... — Izkata 19 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Andrew Morton
@Tensibai I suspect we have been presented with a fait accompli and so it would be prudent to make the best of it that we can. Not that that is the only reason to seek improvements to chat. — Andrew Morton 36 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Makoto
I get the impression that you've been too far out of the loop on Meta, George. What you say is accurate and true from a business perspective - I even touch on that in this answer - but that doesn't make anyone feel better about the situation. If the reality is that we as a community can no longer agree with the company's vision for what the community should be going towards, then not participating is the only logical choice. You cannot ignore the fact that we are the product, and we're not thrilled about it. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
To be honest, I don't know if the VC's will be able to get enough money to be satisfied, no matter what we or they do. But I do know that if they continue down this path of allowing/encouraging low quality questions, preventing us from moderating effectively, then they will end up with even less money than if they let us continue to uphold the high standards we've always had. This site without quality standards will turn into Yahoo Answers and make it difficult to find a proper solution, eliminating any value it may have had. — mason 46 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Izkata
@TylerH If that were the case, tags like feature-request and status-completed wouldn't exist. — Izkata 21 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
...It's up to us to help them see that. Whether it's complaining when they come look at Meta, or organizing a strike, or taking to social media, or telling them in the face to face interviews that the company seems a little more interested in lately. I've seen a few steps in the right directions lately, so I continue to be hopeful. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Temani Afif
as a side note searchOnStackOverflow() will always through an exception. You can optimize your code by keeping searchOnGoogle() which also include results from StackOverflow — Temani Afif 32 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
Questions aren't made off-topic by being simple or because the answer can be found elsewhere on the internet. We used to have a close reason for too localized but that has been gone for a very long time now. Could you please clarify: "have come to realize that keeping people out because their question is "too simple" or "they could have googled it" is not how you would mentor a junior programmer"? — Tiny Giant 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@makato Not ignoring that at all; in fact as someone who has spent the last 11 years of my life doing the same thing, I understand the feeling deeply. The difference is that I know that haranguing the company won't change their ways; and that if they do sell, there's a 1 in 5 chance it's going to be to someone who is good for us. What will change things is to show that we're on board with growing stack overflow and that we care about this community enough to focus on how to keep it going, instead of on a "my way or scorch the earth" way. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
Fair point, I hope there'll be any improvement from this then. — Tensibai 16 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Makoto
Maybe the poison in the well is implicit in that Stack Overflow is seen simultaneously as both product and community. I know bothering the company to change their position isn't going to change much. Maybe I'm just waiting around for a formal reason to file for divorce. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Andras Deak
@GeorgeStocker side note, because I've seen this typo from you multiple times today: it's "Makoto" with one "a" and two "o"s (not only is mistyping names one of my many pet peeves, but this typo breaks pings which is why I'm leaving a comment). — Andras Deak 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Izkata
@GeorgeStocker I've expanded all comments on the second page and checked the URLs of yours; there are none with the ID 717700 as on your link. — Izkata 38 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Izkata
@GeorgeStocker Found it, that comment is now on the first page; you probably were seeing a cached second page: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/387883/…Izkata 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@Izkata that sounds like a bug, since depending on how you order things that post is on page two or page . — George Stocker ♦ 49 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Izkata
@GeorgeStocker Yep, someone renamed something, I see it now: The comment URL says "&tab=oldest", but the tabs use "&answertab=oldest"; your original link works by changing that — Izkata 36 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JRE
As an aside, I really wanted to flag the question as duplicate because it really is a common and simple mistake. I couldn't find a clear answer to refer to about the "Cannot implicitly convert" error. I found 576.1 gazzilion similar questions about "Cannot implicitly convert type Transmogrifier to type Fuzzwarper," but nothing that looked like it hit the real core of the matter. — JRE 51 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by u84six
It's funny you mention, because I came across this page just to figure out why it wasn't working, and realized that it doesn't work with the user who owns the answer! Doh! I suppose it makes no sense since the user who owns the answer will always get the notification. So all this time I thought it was broken because I didn't know the user would always get the notification on a comment haha! I dont' use SO all that much ;) — u84six 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
If anything, I would have left the original tags are not wrong. — rene just now
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Arkadiy
A hypothetical: I wonder if the editor would be as quick to edit if the variable name was girl. — Arkadiy 14 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Izkata
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JRE
@rene: Well, that's the question as far as I'm concerned. The original tags don't give any information that will help the next searcher find it. The problem isn't in xamarin, and it isn't in skiasharp. It's a general thing that applies to many things. In this case, the wording of the error is specific to C#, and the cause is a casting error. — JRE 56 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Suragch
@u84six. Ok, that's good you understand now. I didn't know that it didn't work for the owner. — Suragch 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Makoto
@mason: Just a minor nit - being heard is not the same as getting your desired outcome. The company can hear us all day but choose to do something else, not unlike parents with young children walking through the toy aisle. There's no doubt in my mind that those kids and their whining is heard. Is it honored? Doesn't have to be to accomplish being heard. — Makoto 39 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
Good find on this. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
I can't judge if the context is ONLY C# casting. Maybe Xamarin has a nice BetterPoint type that no one in C# and casting has ever heard of. You want to brimg that question under the eyes of all experts that might know the answer. That doesn't seem to be limited to only C# and casting experts. — rene 45 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@Makoto that Comment may be a bit on the nose. The kids are whining that they can't get their favorite toy and the parents are currently wondering if they'll make next month's rent. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Braiam
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tensibai
@GeorgeStocker At the difference the kids are begging those toy so they can participate properly to build the family product so their parent can present something different than others and thus help pay the rent. (any analogy is just flawed anyway) — Tensibai 21 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
And then it is indeed a common problem that might not need an edit but just a close as duplicate. Then you don't need the edit and future visitors would still find their answer. — rene 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@Makoto Fair enough, but if they don't want to listen, I am going to continue making it uncomfortable for them. MLK Jr style. I'm open to trying other ways in addition to being vocal here. But I'm not going to give up being vocal. Sometimes parents do finally give in if their kid whines enough, and find a way to make it happen. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JRE
@Braiam: That looks good. I'll flag the one I answered as a duplicate. — JRE 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JRE
@reme: That's just the point. The error straight up tells you that you are trying to assign TypeA to TypeB, and that you need an explicit cast if you want to do it. This happens all the time. You see the error, you think "oh, wrong types" then you check the types and if they are compatible and either cast it or copy values as needed. This is all day, every day normal thing to do - for a C# programmer. — JRE 40 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
You can use searchOnGoogle("site:stackoverflow.com " + term) to get results from just Stack Overflow too :). — Heretic Monkey 1 min ago
 
4:13 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@JRE never happens to me. Anyway. I can't find that type TouchTrackingPoint with my Google skills so it is unlikely that a direct cast will solve their issue, nor will any of the answers in the duplicate. Maybe a Xamarin expert does know where this went wrong but it is probably not caused by anything we look at. Luckily the question is still tagged correctly. — rene 59 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JRE
I've already flagged it as duplicate, and referred to the question that Braiam found. — JRE 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JRE
@rene: I know diddly squat about xamarin, but the cause and solution are still clear. If you can't cast, you just need to copy the values from one variable to the other - or use them directly, as could be done in this case. VisualStudio will even tell you if the cast is allowed. — JRE 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@mason: That does you no good if the people to whom you're whining just give up and leave. Then you're simply left with your own echo chamber. — Robert Harvey ♦ 22 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by yivi
You have only two non-closed questions, you may as well be specific and point to the question and the answer you want to improve upon. — yivi 11 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@RobertHarvey If they stop coming to Meta and paying attention - we'll find wherever they are looking. The past shows they listen to whining on Twitter and blog posts and Medium, so we can play that game too if we need to. For now, I know Tim and Shog and a few others are still lurking around here. — mason 37 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
We can keep arguing forever. Visual Studio won't tell them why they got that strange type there in the first place and you won't know for sure if that type even has properties that would reasonably map to that X and Y. Based on naming it is a good guess but I consider a good guess not an answer. The root cause of their error is still a mystery. Let's move on. — rene 46 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by yivi
It depends, IMO. How significant is your addition? Are you adding one keyword to ten lines of code? A complete implementation to a one line snippet? How divergent will be your answer from the existing one in the end? — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Dan Bron
I’d accept the other answer, upvote it, then post your own answer, which should start out immediately and explicitly saying “Building on @OtherUser’s very helpful answer (link to his answer), I created a more complete solution this: ...”. That way credit where credit is due, and the community benefits also from a more comprehensive answer, while giving the original answer the head start it earned. — Dan Bron 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mason I literally told you where they hang out. meta.stackexchange.com. You accused me of 'sending you elsewhere', where I was sending you to where they hang out. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@GeorgeStocker You missed the point. I am here because I have a voice here, and I know they're here. I do not have a voice on Meta.SE. If they leave here and solely reside at Meta.SE, then I guess I'll be going there and trying to establish myself too. And if they leave there, then I'll go wherever that is until I give up on Stack Overflow or they give in and start righting the ship. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
whoosh ...... — Robert Harvey ♦ 15 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by dWinder
Why not suggested an edit the existing answer? — dWinder 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@RobertHarvey What does that have to do with our discussion here? — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Scott Hannen
I'm cursed with optimism. I see change with what look like good intentions. Those changes might have some unintended consequences. What I don't see is a bunch of idiots ready to kill the world's most popular website for developers out of ignorance. I don't buy it. Changes might be odd or uncomfortable or might even include mistakes, but the sky isn't falling. Those changes could also be awesome. Sara's 'bad day' blog post sounds like something to be excited about, not a reason to worry. — Scott Hannen 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@RobertHarvey I was not accusing you or George of bias (here, in this conversation). I simply said George missed my point. So the comment you linked to does not apply here. In fact, I'd interpret that as trolling. You two seem sink lower and lower every time I engage with you. You may not be actively trying to hurt the community, but you are hurting those that are trying to help the community. Removing their comments, telling them to go elsewhere, trolling responses, (intentionally?) missing points being made. Seriously - it's starting to seem like you don't care about doing the right thing. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
And with that, I'm out. Enjoy your mosh pit. — Robert Harvey ♦ 26 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@RobertHarvey Where did I ask you to stay on topic? — mason 43 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
@mason: Guy who dislikes the idea of mods keeping people on topic wants me to stay on topic? Please. — Robert Harvey ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@RobertHarvey Seriously? I'm asking you a fair question: where did I ask you to stay on topic? If you think I'm being hypocritical, feel free to point it out. — mason just now
 
5:07 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by j08691
The old Hot Posts used to change pretty regularly. How long will these new manually selected Featured Posts stay up? I see one has already been up for a week and it feels stale. — j08691 7 secs ago
 
5:45 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mysticial
@GeorgeStocker Has this been made clear to all the moderators? This answer basically summarizes a number of very controversial comments that I've posted on meta over the past couple months. Controversial enough that I had to defend my position against a moderator who didn't want to believe that SO was changing their fundamentals. — Mysticial 59 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by code11
I think I had a similar question: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/339947/1456253code11 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Braiam
@smci I recall several posts by SE employees where they refer Google unregistered as either unregistered or anonymous users. Also, the term "active" comes from the "last seen" and badges descriptions. It's historical meaning usually is that it has account and has been "active"/done something on the site. — Braiam 29 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mystical I amended my comment. The poster mischaracterizes the desire and effects. The focus on growth is a requirement to stay in business; and presumably SE is using their resources and realizing the current set of values is not allowing them to grow. They need to grow to stay in business. Unless, of course, each of us wants to pay $10 a month. — George Stocker ♦ 36 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
To wit: Stack Overflow has to monetize, either by going public, selling, or buying back stock from investors. They are noticing the current vision does not bring the growth they expect (if it did, there'd be no reason to change it), and therefore are trying something different (this is all my observations) — George Stocker ♦ 35 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JRE
@rene: The decision whether two types are compatible doesn't depend on property names, or property types. Is is based on the inheritance of the classes. In the question we are talking about, if "TouchTracking.TouchTrackingPoint" and "Xamarin.Forms.Point" both inherit from, for example, "System.Drawing.Point" then you could validly cast among those types. — JRE 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Travis J
Meta was never "in charge". There was just more connection between the actual team working on the site and the community before, but they still did all the work and made all the decisions. — Travis J 56 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Kevin
@GeorgeStocker: While I find that a plausible explanation, I do not agree that Stack Exchange has been sufficiently transparent for us to conclude that it is the explanation. — Kevin 21 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JGreenwell
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JGreenwell
For point one: 2012 w/dup link to 2011 request for upvote/thumbs up & star (as favorite) feature. — JGreenwell 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Kevin
@GeorgeStocker: "Monetization" is a far more specific goal than "be good for the business in the long run." — Kevin 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Travis J
If you sit around only looking for stuff to call crap, it is all you will ever find. It is more beneficial to look for good content that will actually help future visitors than to spend your entire day getting angry at posts that will not eclipse 100 views in 10 years. — Travis J 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@kevin they’ve said several times what their goal is and why. The implicit “we are doing it to stay in business” undergirds every business. No business makes a strategic decision without answering a fundamental question: will business go up or down as a result of this. — George Stocker ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@Kevin In short; as a business, Stack Overflow either has to grow, or die. That's the type of business funding model they've chosen. I daresay this site wouldn't have been possible without it. — George Stocker ♦ 19 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@Kevin Let's look at the facts: They've taken 5 rounds of funding; and need an exit for their investors. That exit comes one of three ways: 1. IPO, 2. Selling to a bigger business 3., buying back from their investors with returns. (If we assume investors want 10x returns then they need to make a cool 680 million dollars). IPO and selling to bigger companies require good metrics. If growth is slowing or is going down, that's bad for IPO and for Selling to a bigger company. Investors may say "no more money for you" if the metrics don't look good. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@Kevin I'm not sure I would if I were in their position: And I don't think you want them to either. Once a company starts to hear of those sorts of things you don't know what you get. Oracle may decide they want to buy them. Could you imagine? That'd be terrible for us. — George Stocker ♦ 38 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JGreenwell
For 3: the 2012, see comments for 2014 updates - there are none but kept asking - no feature request currently for it specifically though (probably because its a mod tool and the mods just asked directly) — JGreenwell 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Kevin
@GeorgeStocker: You may be right. But they have to tell us these things before I'm prepared to sympathize with them. — Kevin 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Kevin
@GeorgeStocker: Kindly do not tell me what I do and do not want. — Kevin 1 min ago
 
6:25 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
Thank you for this. I've been parroting that the ask question wizard doesn't support how-to style questions (which are very much on-topic and tend to be the most useful questions asked). It's important to get feedback from someone actually trying to use the wizard to ask a how-to style question. Thank you, thank you, thank you. — Tiny Giant 13 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Icepickle
This is not really a Q & A no, is it not rather a blog post? What kind of answer are you expecting to get? :) — Icepickle 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by remy_rm
At least it is good to know that meta isn't a big enough part of the community to be listened/replied to. But that a single twitter user is. — remy_rm 1 min ago
 
6:45 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JGreenwell
I've personally used a public (but internal) tracker which handled both feature requests & bugs (most of them actually) - it shouldn't be hard to assign different priority & tracking tags to each to separate them. I do except that they have so much legacy code & policy tangled up in this that they cannot easily untangle it and here we are — JGreenwell 1 min ago
 
6:57 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@JRE I know how the type system in .Net works. Thanks. — rene 47 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Davy M
My flag for featuring was responded to: "At this point we're not expecting any new arguments to be made for or against on the post; or to learn anything new that we haven't already heard." With all due respect, you're expecting to implement this plan. You haven't been persuaded that this is a bad idea. If you could imagine the new arguments that could be made that haven't yet, you wouldn't be starting off the discussion with the presuppositions that you will be following through with this proposal. You are the least able people to judge if new arguments may still be posted from others. — Davy M 2 mins ago
 
7:17 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Makoto
That's right @Magisch. I'm deliberately excluding references to the tweet or anything like that because it doesn't matter what the tweet was or what happened. All that I care about is that the policy which is in effect - either explicit or implicit - is documented for us to see. The company can choose to engage with people over social media if they want to. What I want to see is some bloody consistency with how it's applied. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by remy_rm
I find it very unwelcoming to see my comments, in which i express how I feel about a certain topic removed. The worst part is you don't get notified about it, or even get to know the reason for why it was deleted. Just because a single mod decided it felt "snarky" or off-topic it gets silently removed, without the ability to defend your claim. — remy_rm 1 min ago
 
7:57 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Brandon_J
@ScottHannen I'm forever optimistic as well lol. — Brandon_J 42 secs ago
 
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