12:26 AM
@MisterMiyagi, Stack Overflow's ban on AI-generated text on posts will fail miserably. It will be impossible to reliably identify AI-generated responses. This approach will result in mistakenly banning harmless posts. Good luck with this Sisyphean task. — Catriel 20 secs ago
1:14 AM
2:14 AM
As you may have guessed from above, I'm not in favour of most questions being asked. Someone new to a language is going to have a lot of questions, and most of them just aren't suitable for stackoverflow because they're fundamental to the language and are better covered in a good-quality text or a duplicate. What I don't like is the long tail on downvotes preventing an ex-newbie from asking the good questions they'll have down the road when they know enough of the language to ask them. If anything needs fixing, it's that. — user4581301 26 secs ago
@user4581301 I'm not quite sure what you mean by "aren't suitable for stackoverflow because they're fundamental to the language". Especially since you say (and I agree with this part) that many of them are better covered in a duplicate. That tends to mean that the question is suitable, it's just already been asked. — Ryan M - Regenerate response ♦ 50 secs ago
2:31 AM
You can state what is and hope your explanation is more clear to them than whatever materials they're learning from. And sometimes you can't do much but recommend getting a book. — user4581301 53 secs ago
Fundamental was probably the wrong way to word that. There are fundamentals that are confusing as <expletive deleted> until you figure out, or someone explains, why things are that way. Where I was trying to go with that were the questions about stuff like the proper care and feeding of a for loop that will have been beaten to death in the first few chapters of a text. Most will be covered by duplicates, but the ones that stem from a personal misunderstanding of the material, you can't really explain those. — user4581301 1 min ago
Where I'm coming from is how I see the goal of Stackoverflow: To create a repository of good answers to good questions. Sometimes a good question is very simple. Sometimes it's about a fundamental. Sometimes it takes guts to ask the question because you're gonna feel real dumb when you see the solution. But if it can help more people than just the asker, it's a good question. If it doesn't scale past the asker for whatever reason, it just doesn't fit. — user4581301 1 min ago
There is a solid case for establishing a new programmer help desk, but by its needs it will be a very different place than Stackoverflow. — user4581301 35 secs ago
What people often get hung up on, myself included, is that it often isn't possible to determine which questions will actually be useful to more people than the OP. Sure, it's likely the majority of debugging questions fall into this category, but there's always that one that doesn't. — Kevin B 43 secs ago
Regarding the company's dislike for such posts being featured: are we not on strike? We will be doing many things disliked by the company, include this one... — andrew.46 55 secs ago
Kevin's nailed it. This is why I hate to see questions insta-deleted before they have a chance to find their audience. Some of the most highly voted posts here are for stuff that strikes me as, "Someone asked that?" But of course there are going to be people who couldn't find how to turn on warnings in their IDE or other <expletive deleted> that's obvious to a 20-year veteran of the Editor Wars. — user4581301 17 secs ago
3:09 AM
Per the message, you're not banned from asking new questions, but simply limited. If you post one well-received question, it'll almost certainly invalidate the "history of asking low quality questions" on your account, assuming you don't have other deleted questions (this list is only accessible by you and SO mods). — 41686d6564 stands w. Palestine 9 secs ago
3:52 AM
I would recommend against aliasing a generic tag (
[whisper]
) with a more specific one ([openai-whisper]
or [graphite-whisper]
), Regular users will continue to use the generic tag, (blissfully unaware, not noticing or simply not caring about the automatic rename), leading to ongoing mistagged questions. This has been raised in the past as an issue with generic synonyms on Super User. — Robotnik 16 secs agoYea ... a single bad question is not enough for the limit to kick in. Note: we are told that deleted questions are taken into account by the (secret) question limit algorithm. So one cannot evade the consequences of asking bad questions by simply deleting them. — Stephen C 14 secs ago
The algorithm for determining when to limit questions is secret. It is known only to SE Staff. But we are told that it takes account of previously deleted questions ... to stop people gaming the system by asking bad questions then deleting them. — Stephen C 38 secs ago
In some more detail, when you add
[whisper]
as a tag, it gets silently replaced, and many users don't notice. — tripleee 12 secs agoYou may want to focus on How to ask a good question & How much research effort is expected of Stack Overflow users? — Trenton McKinney 47 secs ago
You already asked this exact same meta question not long ago. Don't re-ask the same question. — JK. 53 secs ago
I would say that is likely that the system is smart enough to realize that you posted the same question from another account and has linked the 2 and therefore can quite easily look at the history of your other account and see that you have a history of asking low quality questions. — JK. 8 secs ago
4:45 AM
@41686d6564standsw.Palestine I have exactly 1 deleted question and it is that one. — user1345541 45 secs ago
@JK. Can you post a link to the other "account" you think is my alt account? — user1345541 30 secs ago
5:27 AM
This plattform is ruled by few... The mass don't care, just consuming the content online. Make a deep traffic analysis. Where does this plattform welcome newbies? Where does it provide those, who are willing to engage a path, based on a buddy concept? Users like jonrsharpe vote something down, due it's not of their kind. That it. NICE! — informix 22 secs ago
I was unable to find it but I distinctly recall your "I asked that very preposterous question" from the last time. Your previous question was also about "what is a div". You 100% have asked this recently. — JK. 55 secs ago
@informix, stop posting crap. I'm new user. I have no uncles among moderarors/staff/highrep old users. Yet here I am, not oppressed, answering questions, gaining reputation. — markalex 26 secs ago
5:48 AM
@JK. My other question was not over another account. It was about the question being answered after it's closed. Not about being banned. I'm not re-asking anything. My older question is distinctly different from this one, even though they're both 'about' the same very much preposterous question. — user1345541 51 secs ago
6:41 AM
I'm pretty sure a regular user, regardless of reputation level, doesn't have the capability to ban other users. So it's hard to see how this answers the question that was asked. — Toby Speight 8 secs ago
@TobySpeight, I believe hobbs meant flag mentioned post as plagiarism (and for mods in turn to ban based on that). But that position doesn't hold: SE has pretty strict position regarding plagiarism proof. You should provide evidence of plagiarism: link that will contain original content, that was plagiarized. For chatGPT it is not feasible. And if we going to ignore SE's rules, we can simply keep flagging (and mods banning) as it was before new policy. — markalex just now
7:14 AM
@TylerH If, as indicated in the original question here, the staff believe that mods are discriminating on the basis of geographic location (and thus, indirectly, on the basis of nationality) when issuing suspension - and are actually voicing that belief out loud in public! - then there may nonetheless be a winnable lawsuit here, either in the US or in the UK where Stack Exchange also has a corporate presence. You may have "no legal right" to access pretty much any private business, but if the denial of access is specifically based on a protected characteristic, it's still a tort. — Mark Amery 11 secs ago
7:43 AM
I am afraid that I do not understand what you are asking, @andrew.46. This post is not featured. Many of us, including myself and Zoe, are on strike. Clearly, we have been doing and are continuing to do any things disliked by the company. However, these are things that we fundamentally feel are the right thing to do, and, furthermore, it is our distinct impression that the community also thinks so and supports our doing them. This is why we are striking, to send a message to the company that we are not their employees, and what they dislike is less relevant than they think. — Cody Gray - on strike ♦ 39 secs ago
Why are you taking issue with the system limiting (not barring) your ability to ask questions when your questions are, by your own admission, preposterous? — Robby Cornelissen 32 secs ago
7:59 AM
Just realized your last paragraph from last year pretty much summarizes my answer from today... meta.stackexchange.com/a/389965/1306850 All about wasting time and wasting space, I guess. — Stelio Kontos 45 secs ago
8:13 AM
You have no idea how jonrsharpe voted. Neither do I. Voting is anonymous. Voting is designed to help the masses you're speaking of, those who passively consume content. They rely on upvotes and downvotes to find the most useful content, with the less useful stuff filtered out. The voting system has nothing to do with newbies; we don't vote on users, we vote on posts. There's no way that voting can be "nice" or not nice. It's just a vote. An opinion about the quality and/or usefulness of the post. Don't try to make it into more than that. — Cody Gray - on strike ♦ 34 secs ago
There is no support for the company within SO mods. We have mods who are actively striking, mods who support the principles of the strike but aren't actively striking for various reasons, and then mods who haven't logged into the site or are otherwise preoccupied with personal matters and thus haven't expressed an opinion. Claims like "nobody really knows" aren't helpful or accurate. Someone knows. — Cody Gray - on strike ♦ 59 secs ago
There was not, @Steve. I never answered this question. I answered this one, before the strike was even planned. There's also this answer by Peter Cordes who you may be confusing with me for various reasons (similar points of view, avatar colors, subject-matter expertise, etc.) and which mentioned me in the answer body. Peter's answer was written when the notion of a strike had been discuss internally, but not publicly. For me, I am not speaking much in public because I am exhausted from writing so much in private. — Cody Gray - on strike ♦ 21 secs ago
2 hours later…
10:16 AM
I had this with an AI-written answer yesterday - it looked great, well-laid out, some helpful code snippets and I was grateful to have an answer quickly so I upvoted it. Then when I tried to actually use some of the code, it was based on references to a property that simply doesn't exist, but I couldn't downvote it without the answer being edited. Fortunately when I pointed out that there was a problem with it they responded with a classic GPT "my bad..." and edited to a different incorrect answer, so I could downvote, whereupon they deleted the answer. The system is being gamed, currently. — glenatron 17 secs ago
No, they aren't confused; the people using them just don't care to take 5 seconds of their day to read the descriptions and use the correct tag. — Ian Kemp 5 secs ago
10:39 AM
Thanks, @Cody (for this reply, and many others). It's a mark of how far trust has collapsed that I darkly imagined that an answer (that I thought I remembered) might have been summarily deleted, or something. — Steve Summit 51 secs ago
11:06 AM
@Robotnik that question ends with msi-windows-installer as a good solution that includes generic part to make users aware of the connection, and in our case openai-whisper contains this part. Also, I bet 90% or more of questions next year will ask about ML model and not a Graphite component, which is very industry-specific and had only ~50 questions since 2014. I'm sure users who ask about graphite-whisper and try to tag with whisper will indeed notice that their tag was substituted with openai-whisper and fix this. — SUTerliakov 17 secs ago
The issue with whisper recreation sounds much more realistic and troublesome to me compared to accidental misuse for Graphite questions. — SUTerliakov 16 secs ago
@IanKemp you're correct of course, but it's the reality and we have to deal with it somehow. This ML models will certainly attract many newcomers who definitely won't read tag wikis, as usual, so something has to be done to prevent new mistagged questions from appearing. — SUTerliakov 55 secs ago
11:48 AM
"so a mod flag wasn't needed" - I still flagged it after the comments came in. Good thing, this topic is done. Will flag in the future again! — Max Play 50 secs ago
12:45 PM
Qt now "logically" closed as "needs details or clarity", was to expect... To improve the Qt: 1 or 2 Screenshot(s) needed, + the corresponding Link(s) + Explanation/clarification about selecting the
[data-dump]
Tag included in the Qt (and not as a Comment) + adding the [search]
Tag + maybe some other "relevant" Tags are maybe missing, and I'm not sure if [discussion]
is really relevant... — chivracq 22 secs ago1:08 PM
On a "2nd thought", I've retracted my Upvote, as I find the "social media links" + "social media options" in the Title + Body + insisting on "social media" a bit misleading/untrue in this Case, => "off-site contact info" would be more correct in my opinion... The User was not trying to post any "social media" Info, just to offer a way to contact them if sbd needed more of their Code, just like they could have a posted a Link to some 'Github' Repository, which I reckon nobody would frown upon... — chivracq 44 secs ago
1:25 PM
“How can a single deleted/downvoted/closed question cause me to be instantly barred from posting new questions?” - It’s not possible, which means, you have more than one deleted question associated with your account. — Security Hound 44 secs ago
1:41 PM
@chivracq You are right, I will rephrase the question in this regard and replace "social media" with "off-site contact info". But I feel there is a big difference between a link to a messenger like Discord and a GitHub repository: The information on a messenger vanishes after the topic is talked about, either by a flood of text or in a voice chat. A GitHub link is just a link to another open website, it could also be a link to a blog or the documentation. — Max Play 18 secs ago
1:55 PM
Though I agree to with you somewhat, all knowledge was learned from somewhere else (by a teacher, from books, online, etc). So anyone posting any answer is 'plagiarising' if they don't actually cite the source. — CAMD_3441 32 secs ago
1 - Many people, unless they own (and pay for hosting or self-host) a personal domain don't have a good place to put a guide elsewhere; 2 - a guide can significantly benefit from the collaborative editing/"answering" provided by existing SE Q&A tools - none of that will work if someone posts a link to their external post; 3 - tag wikis are not easily found and not comprehensive enough (size, formatting, etc.) for this purpose — manassehkatz-Moving 2 Codidact 46 secs ago
Alright, good-good, got my Upvote back, thanks for the Edit... // Yep-yep, agreed about the "perennity"/availability of Info/Code/Documentation between Blog/Docs/'GitHub' online Site and some Chat/Email (private) conversation... // Not sure if I should remove my previous Comment (and this one), flag as NLN or some Mod will clean up if needed, I suppose... (After the Strike...!?) — chivracq 52 secs ago
2 hours later…
4:05 PM
Yup. It's important to notice the emphasis in this answer. It's fine to answer your own question, but it must be a good question. I've written a few self-answered questions over the years, and the best result is often when someone with more expertise provides an even better or more complete answer. So ask as if you are actually asking! Provide an answer if you can, but don't post a self-answer as if it's the final word on the subject. If only you can answer the question, then it's a really bad question. — JDB 57 secs ago
4:19 PM
Yeah, the maximum character limit for edit descriptions seems arbitrary and of little use. — beedell.rokejulianlockhart 52 secs ago
4:32 PM
Did you mean to add this to your question? It doesn't seem to be an answer to whether or not it does anything to your account. — General Grievance 19 secs ago
5:21 PM
I find it odd that you changed the numbering in that post to start at 0, rather than 1; why step 0? — Thom A 32 secs ago
Why would your improvement be flagged for plagiarism if it wasn't plagiarized? — Security Hound 51 secs ago
Thanks to SE for doing this, how would we have known they value all users if they hadn't padded this communication to us? Every user matters, question banned and answer banned equally. I can now contribute to the site knowing that SE cares about me. — Passionate SE 48 secs ago
The result is few good questions being asked (because the process takes time and the asker figured the problem out) and a lot of weak questions (because the asker's didn't invest the time and doesn't really know what they should be asking). How do we solve the problem? Education. And Stackoverflow has a very poor record on getting the new user educated. Though to be fair, that's not entirely Stackoverflow's fault since most people don't bother to read the manual. — user4581301 54 secs ago
The problem: The vast majority of people can't write a decent question. This is to be expected because writing a good question takes a lot of work and at the end of it you probably don't post the question because the process you followed to collect all of the information needed in the question and isolating the problem to its essential details to focus the question on the core problem lead to you finding the solution. — user4581301 1 min ago
@RobbyCornelissen That one question was preposterous. I'm not saying 'my questions are preposterous' I am saying that one, single, isolated incident of a question was preposterous. — user1345541 10 secs ago
If the mods weren't striking for better working conditions likely one of them would have looked up your posting history, possibly including linkages to other accounts the server has made, and likely provided links to deleted content that require improvement. — user4581301 34 secs ago
Note that Stackoverflow is not a good place to start your research. If you don't know what something does and how to use it, look it up, and if you have questions about what you find, those are the questions you should ask. — user4581301 53 secs ago
5:57 PM
There is a temporary edit-ban, yes. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/280175/…. As long as you don't keep getting rejected edits, you don't have to worry about it. — General Grievance 15 secs ago
I would not expect this flag to get validated as 1) This seems to be a one-time thing and 2) Changing the numbered list to start at 0 is not a good change, so the edit is of questionable quality already. — General Grievance 17 secs ago
@Gimby, I try not to click on the answer, preferring to look at other places. It's getting easier for me to avoid the temptation. But there's still situations where I do have to rely on content hosted by Stack Exchange Inc. — Left SE On 10_6_19 just now
So you agree with the message then? Or did you plan on asking more in order to see that message? — General Grievance 47 secs ago
2 hours later…
8:46 PM
10 edits rejected out of 24 is not a good track record. Perhaps you should reflect on what was considered the problem with those 10. — President James K. Polk 32 secs ago
@ThomA, I didn't change it to start at zero, that's just a consequence of StackOverflow's Markdown interpreter starting automating list numbering at 0. Having solely 0-delimited lists informs the processor to automatically number the list; it should improve maintainability. — beedell.rokejulianlockhart 34 secs ago
Yeah, I think I answered the wrong question. I've included an actual answer now, @GeneralGrievance. Thanks. — beedell.rokejulianlockhart 31 secs ago
@GeneralGrievance, meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/425043/… should provide some useful information about your second statement. Thanks for the help. — beedell.rokejulianlockhart 57 secs ago
@SecurityHound, it does contain much of the linked answer. Is it only plagiarism if it's done in bad faith? — beedell.rokejulianlockhart 1 min ago
Unfortunately, @PresidentJamesK.Polk, the responses are usually similar to the one that I have quoted; they're at least not enough that I've gained an idea of any underlying problem with my edits after some basic evaluation of the rejected ones. Note that at least two come from this specific answer anyway. — beedell.rokejulianlockhart 46 secs ago
9:25 PM
@beedell.rokejulianlockhart - Plagiarism is Plagiarism. If you purposefully plagiarized content, or do it by accident, it will be deleted for plagiarism if it's flagged. I still question, how is an edit proposal to an existing contribution, going to be a risk of introducing content that is plagiarized? You should quote and cite external resources. If you are introducing content to an existing contribution, as an edit proposal, that could be seen as being plagiarism and will rightfully be rejected by the community — Security Hound 43 secs ago
"I didn't change it to start at zero, " yes, you did you changed the 1., 2., 3., Etc to 0., 0., 0. . You did that... You submitted the edit. Did you not review your edit before you submitted it? — Thom A 23 secs ago
Separately, you can avoid plagiarism by following our referencing guidelines. — Ryan M - Regenerate response ♦ 54 secs ago
1 hour later…
10:28 PM
spec.commonmark.org/0.30/#atx-headings allows 3 spaces before the
#
it does not allow 4 as an indent of 4 spaces is verbatim <pre>
block, you seem to be suggesting a breaking change to the interpretion of an indent — David Carlisle 51 secs ago10:58 PM
Does this answer your question? Why did I get temporary ban for editing questions? — pppery 42 secs ago
"stop using the word racism. This isn't about racism. This is about the unintended consequences of how SO functions." - Anyone who proposes that a) these sorts of "unintended consequences" will have racially disparate impact and b) that this therefore represents a moral failing, is inherently alleging racism. It is intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise. Further, the proposal here is clearly that the treatment of a group ("newbies") should be altered because of the assumed racial characteristics of that group. That is racist, both in the assumption and the proposal. — Karl Knechtel 35 secs ago
Because, as I explain in the previous comment, this answer promulgates racism, I consider it rude/abusive, and have flagged it accordingly. — Karl Knechtel 56 secs ago
"Or you know, they just don't where to expend effort and don't have the time or will to read the link you've added to the other hundred links they're reading in that day." Why should someone who is not willing to read a link to an existing high-quality Q&A, be expected to read a custom-written answer? Why should regular users of a site where the explicit purpose is to create a library of high-quality answers, be expected to write new custom ones for the same question? — Karl Knechtel 31 secs ago
"I literally spent the first 30 minutes getting errors because I tried using "$" in the command prompt on windows." It would have been wrong to do that on Linux or Mac, too. However, "how do I input commands on the command line?" is a separate, underlying question that people need to figure out first, before they can process "how do I use the
pip
command to install Python packages?". It's out of scope and should be handled separately - and most likely on superuser.com or unix/windows/apple.SE. — Karl Knechtel 44 secs ago11:42 PM
There's rich data for every page, but search engines tend to ignore that and instead scrape the page. — Laurel 14 secs ago
"Not understanding biases you don't even know you have" - I am sick and tired of having been told, over years and years and years, that I purportedly have such biases without knowing about them. I know I do not have them, in the context of Stack Overflow, because I am acting without the information that would be required to enact them. — Karl Knechtel 18 secs ago
"Rude comments can be as 'nice' as "Hey thanks bro, that was exactly what I needed" thus implying that yet someone else assumed that a competent engineer must also be a man." It carries no such implication, and I'm tired of having to address that sort of allegation. — Karl Knechtel 23 secs ago
"But when you see individuals dropping off of our engagement radar in large swaths, and you compare that with feedback that we get from groups of similar individuals" Interesting. People who say things like this should, IMO, reflect on whether they have ever shown the same concern about height, eye colour, hair colour or handedness (all of which are very real bases for very legitimate real-world discrimination); and if not, why not. — Karl Knechtel 37 secs ago
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