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4:01 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ian Kemp
@Druckles as nbk says, by refusing to link to the reviews that you find problematic, you are preventing anyone else on Meta from inspecting them to determine additional context that may well influence their answer or further actions (e.g. have a mod contact the user). That's effectively the same as posting a question that lacks code, and such questions are closed for good reason. If you are concerned that the Meta effect will unfairly punish the user in question, remember that you are not responsible for others' actions. — Ian Kemp 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ian Kemp
This is such a simple fix that it's obvious that it will never be implemented. — Ian Kemp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by StackOverthrow
There are a lot of us old-timers who still feel very strongly that you should not be able to downvote without leaving a comment. Strong enough to call someone a mofo? Maybe. Maybe... — StackOverthrow 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
Easy there, Cap'n. A good answer is an answer that taught someone something. Good answers can have an element of humor to them. — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
@Makoto I vehemently disagree that just "taught someone something" is the sign of a good answer on Stack Overflow. — MisterMiyagi 26 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ian Kemp
@Makyen Any logical human being would have done things exactly the way MarcoBonelli suggested; SE Inc. did this in the most ridiculous, hamfisted, nonsensical way possible. The only "to be fair" here is that the latter is par for the course for SE Inc. — Ian Kemp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makoto
So what would be a good answer by your standards? Something you can copy and paste into your application? — Makoto 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pac0
"Even under the now long gone Be Nice policy" Wait... there is no more "Be nice" policy !? — Pac0 18 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
@Makoto An answer actually answering the question would certainly be a start. The accepted answer seems to do that pretty well.MisterMiyagi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by rene
@Pac0 what can I say. It wasn't enough to "Be Nice". We needed a Code of Conduct. That replaced being nice: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312850/…rene 1 min ago
 
4:53 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jonathan Leffler
@Braiam — I have no strong views on html-heading. There are no tags for h1 through h6 — and I certainly wasn't suggesting adding them. As Daniel said, as the html-heading exists and some of the questions currently tagged heading would be more appropriately tagged html-heading, then that seems sensible to retag them. If it makes more sense to expunge html-heading too, that's fine with me. I have no attachment to (or, AFAIK, involvement with) any of the tags mentioned here — they can live or die and I won't be concerned either way. — Jonathan Leffler 1 min ago
 
5:11 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
At least someone must be wrong, either you or the other users who seem to negatively review the question in the queue. Would the original close voters really decide differently from the other reviewers in the reopen queue? Maybe the timing or frequency of submission to the review queue is a bad choice because the question is typically not yet in shape. In that case it would make more sense that a reopen vote would just trigger an additional round of review. I thought we are doing that already. Maybe I only imagine it but I thought that in timelines I saw multiple reopen review rounds. — Trilarion 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Braiam
@JonathanLeffler drats, I guess animuson missed thoseBraiam 6 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ian Kemp
@yivi The level of hostility and disproportionate nature of that response to what apparently triggered it, are concerning. Such apparently irrational anger can be a stress reaction to areas of life that are causing anxiety to the person who is lashing out. I appreciate it isn't the mods' duty to be personal counsellors, but reaching out to this user and simply asking if they are okay is what I would envision. (I understand what you interpreted my suggestion as, and am not offended; my past behaviour that led you to that conclusion is my responsibility. But I can't be an a--hole all the time!) — Ian Kemp 15 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
There might be a catch 22 here. Maybe the feature is broken (at least that's what Konrad is saying). In that case, a low number of reopened questions would mean that it needs to be fixed urgently instead of concluding that it's not really important to change anything. And while I tend to agree with you, making mistakes is human. The way reopening works I guess the best thing would be to take a closed question, delete it, and start anew. — Trilarion 28 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Konrad Rudolph
“quite honestly, it isn't difficult to write a good question” — You‘re incredibly wrong here, and it’s frustrating to see this attitude in a high rep user. It appears, to put it bluntly, wilfully ignorant. It also means that we can’t debate this issue productively, because we’re starting off from incompatible positions. Luckily I believe the powers that be realise this, and won’t be swayed by your claim. So I’ll do my best to just ignore you. — Konrad Rudolph 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jonathan Leffler
@Braiam — I don't think animuson missed non-existent tags. — Jonathan Leffler 21 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by John Montgomery
@StackOverthrow I'm not sure three years qualifies as "old-timer." In my experience, most of the actual veterans of the site are strongly opposed to that suggestion. — John Montgomery 30 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by zcoop98
I think we can all agree that a lot of crap questions get posted, which get rightfully closed, and which will never be re-open worthy; that's clearly not in question here. I do nonetheless sympathize with the frustration that comes with not being able to reopen questions that should be reopened, which at the very least, seems more difficult than it was ever intended to be, based on the design of the tools that allow it. — zcoop98 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Konrad Rudolph
@Trilarion Nobody needs to be “wrong” if we posit that no meaningful effort is spent re-assessing closed questions fairly. I don’t know whether that’s the true but I strongly suspect that this is the very often the case, and common sense makes this at least plausible, since intentional effort is required to overturn the “status quo” of leaving closed questions closed. — Konrad Rudolph 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
It's all good @Ian. Even if you are not offended, I apologize if I my response was harsher than necessary. I can be a bit tone-deaf myself at times. Peace. — yivi 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Konrad Rudolph
I 100% agree with you regarding the large volume of bad questions. I do not suggest compromising on this. Unfortunately I also suspect you’re right with your two last paragraphs, but I’m simply not ready yet to concede the fight. — Konrad Rudolph 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
What doesn't seem part of the calculation is that bailing out users of jam seems like a possible way to get more future curators. The people who actually care about their own questions might also people who care about the site (if they weren't scared away). — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ian Kemp
@KonradRudolph If you wish to make the claim that writing a good question is difficult, you need to provide evidence for it. (Please don't ask me to prove my claim to the contrary, because that would be asking to prove a negative.) Getting huffy and threatening to ignore me is an emotional response that benefits nobody. If you're honestly interested in having your proposal evaluated, not just blindly accepted because you believe it's "right" from your moral viewpoint, then you need to leave your ego at the door. — Ian Kemp 31 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
Just an idea, but one could found a SORVR (analogously to the SOCVR), i.e. a couple of dedicated users to efficiently use their reopen votes to quickly reopen questions that deserve it. That would probably have an impact. You would just post the question that you voted to reopen in some chat room and others could look at them. It seems to be the same workaround to the same problem that also is reason for the existence of the SOCVR. — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by zcoop98
I would argue that the linked, and clearly intended to be semi-humorous, answer actually does answer the question, by pointing out (albeit in a roundabout way) that -- and > are separate operators in the expression; the impractical expression used only works if this is the case. The only nit I'd have is that there should be some more explanation in the answer itself, because it's rather cryptic otherwise. — zcoop98 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ian Kemp
@Trilarion Even if they aren't scared away by having their question closed, they'll be scared away by the review queues. It takes an extreme amount of mettle, and/or stubbornness, to be a Stack Overflow curator anno 2020. — Ian Kemp 51 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Braiam
@animuson is there any possibility to just zap the tag from existence? — Braiam 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
@zcoop98 I agree that the answer is an answer if you know the answer. I disagree that the answer is an answer if you have to ask for an answer. — MisterMiyagi just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 flags comments
Note to eventual readers of this diverging comment thread (which I believe could become a target of deletion): the author of the comment in question was suspended. Rest assured that the code of conduct applies to everyone all the same, and that this incident has been taken care of. — E_net4 flags comments 24 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by zcoop98
I understand your gripe, I just still think it's amusing and adds something to the overall question by being both humorous and informing of a unique language quirk. — zcoop98 29 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by zcoop98
I would argue that the linked, and clearly intended to be semi-humorous, answer actually does answer the question, by pointing out (albeit in a roundabout way) that -- and > are separate operators in the expression; the impractical expression used only works if this is the case. The only nit I'd have is that there should be some more explanation in the answer itself, because it's rather cryptic otherwise. — zcoop98 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ian Kemp
@KonradRudolph Let me be clear: I agree with the intent of this proposal, as I do with the intent of pretty much every proposal that makes it to Meta.SO, because the people who are willing to post proposals here are almost always the kind of thoughtful, well-intentioned people who should really be in charge of running Stack Overflow. But... we aren't, and probably never will be, and that hurts. Hurts in a way that makes us jaded. Makes us seem dismissive of good ideas. Makes us seem hostile to new users. But we aren't bad people; we're just working in a bad system we can't fix. — Ian Kemp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by MisterMiyagi
@zcoop98 I do not deny that it is humorous or informative, and it was quite a lovely tease. But neither makes it a proper answer to the question, least of all an example of a good answer. — MisterMiyagi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Alexei Levenkov
Note that even if issue would be with code highlighting post likely to be downvoted as guidance on asking such questions - meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/274371/… - is roughly not to ask one here. — Alexei Levenkov 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
I am stressed out in my personal life, so I will be certain to comment the authors of megsDupe FAQ 'ignorant mofos' in future:) — Martin James 1 min ago
 
6:07 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by fazy
Yes that's correct @Scratte. Admittedly I wasn't being as careful as usual so I didn't take note of the exact steps. — fazy 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
@Trilarion SOCVR fields reopen requests as well. The problem is that questions needing reopening it's simply a much less frequent occurrence. Having two active rooms with such different and potentially competing viewpoints could be "fun", for certain values of "fun" — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Taco
Sounds great! I'll delete my info-post. :D — Taco just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user4642212
There is no bug here. It would be a bug, if there wasn’t server-side validation. On the client-side, clicking form elements is not prevented; the opacity of the post merely goes down. — user4642212 41 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Taco
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Jeanne Dark
[ Boson ] New comment posted by gnat
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Clockwork
There's so much history behind this, that I even managed to understand why some are disgruntled from being on SO for too long. Reminds me of how often I'm thinking that there's a point where a community becomes too big to remain true to itself. — Clockwork 5 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Taplar
I don't see that comment as shaming the downvoter. Maybe it was an attempt to do that. But all I see is a comment made by an OP who doesn't understand how the system works. — Taplar 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gulzar
@yivi that means, 4 out of 4 reviewers were wrong, which brings me back to my question - how do I avoid this? — Gulzar 17 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Stephen P
My first thought was "How could fundraising even be on-topic for SO?" — Stephen P 35 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Ian Kemp
I appreciate that you are willing to listen to history lessons from an old-timer like me :) As for communities, it's definitely true that as they grow you are going to see fragmentation due to factions beginning to form - but I believe that as long as there is commonality and therefore consensus between the majority of members, the community will retain its identity. If all the users brought in by the summer of love had simply been interested in programming, I believe the Stack Overflow community would have endured. — Ian Kemp 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
The problem is not the "consensus" (e.g. what the other reviewers chose). But that either "looks ok" or "requires editing" were wrong choices. Those choices both apply to questions that are fundamentally fine, that need a bit of polishing at best. . — yivi 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
I think I mentioned the key point in my previous comment. Good, answerable, on-topic questions can be either "ok" or they can be "ok, but require editing". Do you think that question was fine as it was? That it was good, on-topic question fit to the rules of the site? — yivi 42 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Gulzar
@yivi I did not argue with you. I agree that the question should have been closed. I also believe it was hard to spot, and at least 3 other people would agree with me. — Gulzar just now
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
Does this answer your question? How does the Triage review queue work?yivi 50 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Clockwork
Speaking of which, doesn't it mean it should be "historically locked" like some other old posts? Like this one for example: stackoverflow.com/a/1732454/7473935Clockwork 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
I disagree about it being it hard to judge. But if you find hard to judge a specific question, simply skip that review. Triage is bad queue with confusing UI, which doesn't help matters. The suspension was simply issued so you could be made aware of these things, and learn how to better review in the future. Reading the suggested dupes will help you a lot. Also, the articles in the help center about "on-topic"/"off-topic" might help you, if you find it difficult to judge if a question is fine for the site. — yivi 1 min ago
 
6:59 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cireo
There is some irony that this question is the meta version of that comment (without the vitriol). "To the moderator, the least you can do is explain why this flag was declined. Clarification and consistency is what's lacking." — Cireo 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
The greatest thing about comments is they can be ignored. — Robert Harvey 1 min ago
 
7:27 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by StackOverthrow
@JohnMontgomery You realize people have multiple accounts, right? — StackOverthrow 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Joshua
That question improved my programming ability quite a bit because I hadn't thought of -- > before. — Joshua 8 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by bad_coder
@rene I would be forthcoming with the user, society and the internet in general are an aggressive place. Joining a forum is also an opportunity of personal growth, if the user understands that language isn't acceptable without getting an outright account nuke (or something overly severe) he'll be given a chance to adjust. I'd point out the forms of passive-aggressive bigotry that while not flaggable are equally as aggressive or even worst than just swearing and a straight insult. We are also not given the full context of provocations that may have triggered that reaction. — bad_coder 1 min ago
 
7:45 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Martin James
@StackOverthrow please post your evidence for that claim, else some might think that you are trolling. I could not possibly comment myself.. — Martin James 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Modus Tollens
@bad_coder Stack Overflow is not a forum, so there shouldn't be too much discussion in comment that isn't related to the post. As for the rest: I have tried many times to explain and to reason with user, but most times that made me a target. It's best to flag and move on. That comment was also pretty tame, I've seen much worse! — Modus Tollens 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Robert Harvey
Changing bracket coding style is an OK edit if the OP has no bracket style, e.g. no indentation whatsoever. — Robert Harvey 56 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by smci
IanKemp: you need to illustrate with specific examples from Meta, in principle you're not wrong but this is way too vague, also will collapse under a morass of subjective and dismissive responses. I've personally had cases where I'd agree with you, but also the opposite. It probably also matters whether the specifics of "don't work for the other 1%" could mean "corrupt your database/trash your install" or just "error out with a clear message teling you why it's not applicable" or "are so self-evidently applicable that you'd never even code them up". — smci 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 flags comments
@StackOverthrow Please consider taking that subject to another question. But for what it's worth, the decision to never require feedback alongside a downvote was not a democratic one. The power user base (i.e. curators and moderators) holds the consensus that this is best for the site, and things won't change just because most users want something else. — E_net4 flags comments 19 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@yivi How is it a problem that one type of event happens more rarely than another. Specialists in closing should also be specialists in reopening. Maybe the SOCVR has some conventions what to do in controversial cases? How are they proceeding if some say yes, please close and others say no, don't do it? It could work, the goal is the same in a way: close things that need to be closed and open things that need to be opened. — Trilarion 2 mins ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by yivi
@Trilarion, you are right, it’s not a problem. I misspoke. I meant that the reason it happens much less often is simply because it’s much less frequent occurrence (and arguably a less serious problem), nothing more. — yivi 38 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Pac0
ohhhh seriously I just missed so many potential answers (that ended up as comment) these last week, like hammer closed as duplicates that were not answering the question and/or not applicable for OP :'( . Kudos for tip! — Pac0 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by smci
IanKemp: you need to illustrate with specific examples from Meta, in principle you're not wrong but this is way too vague, also will collapse under a morass of subjective and dismissive responses. I've personally had cases where I'd entirely agree with you, but also the opposite. It probably also matters whether the specifics of "don't work for the other 1%" could mean (by analogy to SO) "corrupt your database/trash your install" or just "error out with a clear message teling you why it's not applicable" or "are so self-evidently inapplicable that you'd never even code them up" — smci 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Heretic Monkey
You can also click Save Edit, then click the back button on your browser. It will show the history of the review of the question, and you can click the title to open the question (middle-click or Ctrl+left-click or right-click and choose open in new tab) — Heretic Monkey 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Trilarion
That's all okay but I wonder with only 3 close votes as threshold (and a question in the close vote review queue typically gets them) shouldn't there be lots of wrongly closed questions. It could be true at the same time that we close not enough questions and too many. Where would you say that the level of wrongly closed questions becomes a concern? — Trilarion 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by smci
SO does have a blacklist of domains that can't be used in posts, and that includes many link-shorteners, since they're sometimes used to conceal a malicious end-destination, or for creating backlinks to boost SEO and traffic. — smci 59 secs ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by smci
@CodyGray: please don't misrepresent what I said. I very clearly stated 1,4,5 are bad, 3. is probably bad but might be on-topic for Electronics.SE if it mentioned specific model and issue, otherwise is "seeking recommendation". 2. however is not necessarily low-quality for Unix.SE, hence I and many others here disagree with your opinion that it's VLQ. If you want to support your viewpoint, please add citations. Are agreed that people should be voting to migrate ok-quality questions? Then the discussion comes down to: Should we consider quality of a Q according to its migration target site? — smci 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by E_net4 flags comments
No context would have justified the comment above, @bad_coder. And where one may see an opportunity of self growth, it unfortunately too often becomes grounds for pointless back and forth or backlash. The lesson learned: avoid discussions caused by a downvote. — E_net4 flags comments 1 min ago
 
9:09 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Makyen
Moderator Note: Intentionally circumventing system imposed limitations, including the intended limitation on not posting answers to closed questions, is considered abuse of the system and is grounds for warnings and suspensions. (cc @Pac0) — Makyen ♦ just now
 
9:35 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by user4581301
@Pac0 You don't want Stacksassins on your trail. Mess you up, bigtime. — user4581301 6 secs ago
 
10:35 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Texas_September_2020
Hi everyone, it seems that the link provided above is no longer valid. Can you guys post a new link for people who want to request the admin of this site to delete their resumes ? Thanks. — Texas_September_2020 6 secs ago
 
10:53 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by GalaxyCat105
@yivi I wasn't lucky enough to realize that I didn't need my pitchfork. Now I have to drag it all the way back. — GalaxyCat105 51 secs ago
 
11:05 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
@smci A question that is blatantly off-topic for the site on which it is asked is "very low quality" by any obvious definition. That you might be able to edit it, migrate it, or whatever else doesn't change that fundamental fact. Migration of questions is strongly discouraged in the Stack Exchange model anyway, and regardless, it is a specific type of closure, so it does not change what is being asked here. — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Cody Gray
Hey, cut the new mods some slack! ChrisF has only been doing this since... wait... :-) — Cody Gray ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
 
11:29 PM
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Henrique de Sousa
I agree with @peterh-ReinstateMonica, in that an honest (but simple) question deserves (at least) a partial answer. — Henrique de Sousa 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by Peter Mortensen
I would argue the Eternal September event happened two years prior to the summer of love, in 2010: "As Stack Overflow has grown, it has started to have some decidedly big city problems. The one we are most concerned about is an influx of very low quality questions."Peter Mortensen 1 min ago
[ Boson ] New comment posted by 10 Rep
@MisterMiyagi We do hate fun, but we didn't hate fun back in 2012, did we? Things have changed, so I think that answer should be locked. But not deleted for sure. — 10 Rep 1 min ago
 
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