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12:05 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by bmm6o
@EJoshuaS You have a point, though on reflection I'd say that there is a question but it's mostly rhetorical. I didn't expect so many people to conclude that, looked at objectively and outside the heat of the moment, this is as good as the interaction could have gone, we should be satisfied with it, and really it was the newby's fault. — bmm6o 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by fbueckert
I think you're missing the frequency of the rants, and putting all the onus on us to solve the problem. I'm challenging that perspective; there needs to be a balance, between us, and new users. I feel like we're already bending over backwards trying to accommodate them; it's high time they start working with us to help themselves, too. — fbueckert 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JGreenwell
@ScottHannen actually, I liked the blog post (I would have liked some more focus on tooling but it was definitely was looking at the system in a valid way). Most of us (or at least me and I think others based on my reading) are angry about how she then posted on Meta blaming us for everything she pointed to the system for causing in the blog. When someone makes a good point but then goes "but I hate you" that pretty much ends discussion — JGreenwell 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by JGreenwell
To be complete, they've also made promises before right after a fallout so while the "effort" is appreciated it is a long road back — JGreenwell 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@bmm6o It seems like through your subsequent comments you got my point. The community didn't treat that person poorly. Sure, they got some downvotes but those don't do anything. And they got asked to change their approach to one that was more likely to result in a friendly and productive result instead of accusatorial. You ever seen someone start to say something really rude, then the other person cuts them off and says "Stop. Start over"? That's what this was: a warning that they shouldn't proceed with their current course, and should come back in a more constructive tone. — mason 51 secs ago
 
12:49 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
From the close reason: “question does not appear to seek input and discussion from the community. If you have encountered a problem on one of our sites, please describe it in detail.”. I’d say the OP described the problem in detail and the title poses a questions. Meets all the criteria to stay open. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
The closest thing to a “no more Tumbleweed” post we have on this Meta is Data science time! June 2019 and the Tumbleweed badge. Probably not a good dupe target. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 57 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Houseman
@deceze "I just don't see how any sort of detailed policy could be written for this" Then don't implement a half-baked policy until you can make it detailed. If that's an impossible task, then go back to the drawing board. There's no need to be shooting from the hip on this, is there? — Houseman 35 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Your queries are incredibly flawed, I’m afraid: community curation has cleaned out the badly-received questions of yore in greater numbers than recent badly received questions. The database simply doesn’t have all those questions that were badly received years ago. So I’d be very surprised if your graph didn’t look the way it does with no change in question voting and closing rates. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
 
1:17 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
@MartijnPieters Only very few deleted posts were physically deleted from the db (proof), and the queries count the deleted posts existing in the db. (There are 3 queries, and not 1. I suspect, you are talking from the first.) — peterh 26 secs ago
 
1:31 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
I went through all deleted questions posted in July that were closed before deletion, and counted those that can be qualified as rants; posts where the question asker is clearly not interested in feedback. There were, by my count, 15 such posts. We average a full-on rant every second day. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
@AndrewT. Boredom is a bad advisor. I would suggest to take a break. You don't have to "win" everything; a good politician never goals total victory. Good politics goals a favorable balance. — peterh 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
These are their post ids, for the enterprising 10k+ users among us: 386925 387080 387109 387111 387113 387116 387439 387469 387635 387749 387840 387806 387807 387956 — Martijn Pieters ♦ 44 secs ago
 
2:03 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mark
@KrzysztofSzewczyk, the analytics data is heavily aggregated. I doubt you could extract anything personally identifiable out of it even on the smaller sites, much less SO. — Mark 53 secs ago
 
2:27 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by artem
Could the moderators also clarify what is the standard for deleting comments outright? — artem 21 secs ago
 
3:11 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@artem I'm planning on getting that out there. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 1 min ago
 
3:25 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by EJoshuaS
@GeorgeStocker Why reopen this? It's a rant, not a question or a suggestion. — EJoshuaS 1 min ago
 
 
1 hour later…
4:27 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Shog9
I appreciate the compliment @brasofilo, but I think George's edit is pretty reasonable here - he brings the important part of the question, de-emphasizes the less constructive aspects... There's probably still room for improvement, but undoubtedly the question is better after the edit. — Shog9 ♦ 45 secs ago
 
4:53 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by EJoshuaS
@GeorgeStocker Having a clear problem statement isn’t enough. By the OP’s own admission, the question in the title is rhetorical. Exactly what input or discussion is this seeking? — EJoshuaS 1 min ago
 
5:53 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mdfst13
@TinyGiant "How is your opinion any more valid than mine?" A moderator has to deal with comments directly (not by filing a flag). You don't. The moderators are telling you that you are trying to impose rules on them when they are in a situation in which you've never been. I'm sorry, but that experience does in fact make their opinion more valid than yours. That doesn't mean that they're right and you're wrong, but it does mean that their opinion is more informed. — mdfst13 6 secs ago
 
6:23 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by deceze
To be more constructive here, everyone wanting to see a concrete policy, please be more specific about what kind of granular rules you’d want to see. I’ve taken a stab at a general sample guideline I think would make sense above. If that doesn’t suffice, what kind of alternative would you want to see? — deceze ♦ 1 min ago
 
6:43 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
@mdfst13 I'm sorry but I don't think your argument is applicable to the situation. I deal with comments all the time. I make new ones all the time. If comments are going to be deleted, I would like to know the policy around that so that I can avoid violating said policy and therefor avoid the deletion of my comments. Not only do I think that is fair, it is completely within our right as a community to discuss the policy. If you don't want to discuss it, that's fine, don't. You don't need to try and prevent anyone else from discussing it. — Tiny Giant 16 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by weegee
@JosiahYoder you can visit numerous existing threads on meta for that. Also, what about other people who don’t need to see that? — weegee 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by BSMP
I think you kind of need to specify the examples @TylerH FWIW, the previous comments asking for and linking to the most recent case have all been deleted so it looks like the mods agree with Makoto that we shouldn’t point to any specific cases. — BSMP 48 secs ago
 
7:03 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@MartijnPieters here is an easily clickable list with creation and deletion dates: data.stackexchange.com/meta.stackoverflow/query/1085386rene 29 secs ago
 
7:51 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by πάντα ῥεῖ
"Can somebody unlock?" No, that's completely left to the engine. — πάντα ῥεῖ 18 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by πάντα ῥεῖ
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
I don't see much correcting of questions on your SO profile. Can you elaborate what you mean by that? — rene 48 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Raedwald
 
8:21 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@bmm6o you seem to be acting very similar to the other OP before - you are refusing to answer pertinent questions. You are merely less aggressive than them yet as unwilling to engage what should have been done. So, to me at least, it seem you're only here to throw blame without trying to improve anything. — VLAZ 27 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
Deleted questions, score <= 0: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) — Samuel Liew ♦ 42 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Samuel Liew
Your last question asked was on Apr 21. If your next question asked after Oct 21 is poorly received, you will probably be blocked for another 6 months. — Samuel Liew ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
"comment less, answer more" So, if I wanted to say anything about this answer, I should post a new answer? Or post a new question pointing at it? How is that supposed to work at all - it seems it's killing the discussion even more than moving to chat - adding more answers to the same question...that aren't answers to the same question but answers to answers is very weird to follow and also prone to have the answers deleted. If I were to post a new question entirely then it becomes even harder to follow and keep up when I make a new question for the answer to that question. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
Here are some links to help you in improving your questions so they have a better chance to be well received on Stack Overflow: The question checklist, an externally maintained site with guidance and a Q/A about research preparation. — rene 55 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by πάντα ῥεῖ
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by πάντα ῥεῖ
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Raedwald
"the vast majority of closed posts can have a slight alteration or clarification to the question to get them reopened." I guess you have not reviewed many closed posts. Because most closed posts are unsalvageable garbage. Closed posts that are edited are already automatically put on a reopen queue. It is rare that the edit improves the post enough to justify reopening it. — Raedwald 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Konrad Viltersten
@πάνταῥεῖ I've see those already while doing research before posting this request. May I, please, kindly ask you to read the second paragraph from the bottom of my question for clarification on why the links provided aren't helpful in this particular case? — Konrad Viltersten 9 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
In other words, a sort of Wiki page that summarises the diatribe between some users and some members of the team. That's akin to asking for a distillation of the reasons and consequences of the Second World War in one page. Cannot be done. It's that vast. :) — Mari-Lou A 1 min ago
 
 
1 hour later…
10:09 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Dan Bron
I’ve had many bad days in my life. Even some on The Internet, believe it or not. But so far as I can remember I’ve never introduced myself to a bunch of strangers by insulting them. I disagree with the premise of this question. I disagree with the extent to which TPTB is asking us to bend over backwards to accommodate incivility, even outright rudeness. I disagree with the now seemingly procedural refusal to ever support our point of view. — Dan Bron 1 min ago
 
10:49 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by gnat
all these past negative experiences had one thing in common: community tried to make an impact through meta while company focused solely on social media. A communication breakdown like this surely causes pain for those who are unheard. This can be solved by closing the communication gap somehow. I would prefer this to be done by company communicating via meta but if they choose not to, the other way 'round will work too, "if the mountain won't come to Muhammad..."gnat 16 secs ago
 
10:59 AM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
You're unlucky, really you are. Many of the more vocal users are disenchanted with SO as a whole and so they vent their frustrations on someone who hasn't followed the guidelines or isn't aware of the culture. Six months is a ridiculous long time to be banned, especially if the questions were posted years agao and are unsalvageable, and it's predictable that they will earn further downvotes because the downvoters want to emphasis a view point. The entire comment section is really disappointing. There are some very useful links but mainly couched in thinly veiled sarcastic tones. — Mari-Lou A 14 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@Mari-LouA true all that. Sarcastic I am. — rene 51 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
Take note of unspoken rule number one, mentioned earlier: never ever talk about downvotes in a question, in an answer that's fine but not in Q, once a question has received an upvoted answer, it gives the community permission to DV the Q even further and OPs cannot be delete when a scored answer has been submitted. And never blame downvotes for a question ban. — Mari-Lou A 55 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
@TinyGiant, if you're looking for new users' reactions to the wizard, you might also be interested in meta.stackoverflow.com/q/381978/1709587, where a user came to Meta to try to figure out if they were even allowed to ask a how-to question any more. Sadly, with Hot Meta Questions gone, such a post would likely never be seen these days, and the template will succeed in driving those users away. Such is the nature of the so-called "welcoming" drive. — Mark Amery 51 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@rene You have a wealth of experience and knowledge, as shown by your rep and by the links posted, just try and be a bit more sympathetic to someone who wants to improve their posts and just needs some help. Again, I understand the frustration, the same things have to be said again and again ad infinitum, but the real fault lies with the system, not with users asking their questions for the first time. BTW how many LQs are allowed to pass before a Q ban is automatically imposed? — Mari-Lou A 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
FluorescentGreen5 your provocative title is literally asking for downvotes. — Mari-Lou A 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@Mari-LouA you can pass many LQ's as long as you bring in enough positive scoring ones. That doesn't seem the case for this user profile. They would need to have their lowest scoring questions disassociated from their profile to have a chance of digging themselves out. It is an option that would require using the Contact Us form at the bottom of the page and then hope SE staff is merciful, again. — rene 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@rene that's good to know. BTW how did you find new comments?? I didn't ping anyone and this post is over a week old. — Mari-Lou A 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
@rene creepy and unsettling all the same. — Mari-Lou A 49 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@Mari-LouA I stalk you? No, it is less creepy. There is some magic in a chatroom that makes those comments appear. — rene 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
"Accepting answer will let others know that this issue has already been solved" - well, it would if askers reliably had the competence needed to judge if an answer even worked, and if we had coordinated as a community to ruthlessly stamp out the rather common practice of answerers harassing askers to mark their answers as accepted. Since neither of those things is true, acceptance unfortunately can't be counted on to mean much at all. — Mark Amery 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
So this is a FAQ? Don't you already have something like this on Stack Overflow? — Mari-Lou A 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@Mari-LouA yes, I'm sorry but do know I do value your tone of voice and the intent of your comments. I do try to listen and adapt some of my style and nasty habits in commenting. — rene 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
The relevant FAQ is on MetaSE, but I think there should be a specific one for Stack Overflow and SO.Meta. That way you can link the hundreds of questions asking about deleted comments to a single post. — Mari-Lou A 59 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
Is it off-topic? Determining if a port is open / available can be considered a programming task, specially nowadays with all these automatic deployment stuff in containers. It is on the devops end of the software engineering spectrum — rene 18 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
I think SuperUser wasn't around at that point. At any rate, I don't think it hurts anybody or hiners anything, so I'm not sure there is value in doing anything about it. It might be moved but then again moving every single historic question that was good but belongs to a different stack, seems like just wasted effort. — VLAZ 30 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
Possibly each of these sections deserve their own answer box? Otherwise it just gets too long? — Mari-Lou A 45 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by weegee
@rene but the answers in the thread do not use code, just command-line commands. SuperUser was not around at that point so stack seems the best site to post that question. Users don't care on which site they are getting answers, they just want answers and then they upvote — weegee 29 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Posts older than 60 days can’t be migrated, even by moderators, so that’s not an option here. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@rene It is off-topic, As many other posts like this is considered as off-topic, Also all commands can be used somewhere in programming but it is not about code. It should be about code. — M4HdYaR 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@VLAZ I know But it is not about algorithm nor a programming concept. — M4HdYaR 14 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@rene so what is the point of creating different communities ? — M4HdYaR 56 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@M4HdYaR No, answers do not necessarily need to be about code. They very often involve code, true, but that's just because most of the programming problems we face are with code. You can also have a question that is language agnostic like an algorithm or a programming concept. Here is a question with no code at all that is valid. — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@VLAZ I know but it's not so beautiful when we downvote new users post for being off-topic but we have such a topic with more than 400 votes... — M4HdYaR 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by weegee
The post is not off-topic on StackOverflow but better suited for superuser. @M4HdYaR as I said Users don't care on which site they are getting answers, they just want answers and then they upvote — weegee 18 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@weegee those are certainly tools I have used in my capacity as developer and content about tools used by developers is on-topic. — rene 35 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@weegee It is , According to SO : Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming. You may be able to get help on Super User. — M4HdYaR 53 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by weegee
@M4HdYaR for example, check out the [power-shell] tag stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/powershell its mostly not about code but command-line interfaces but still on-topic. — weegee 57 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
According to SO : Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming. You may be able to get help on Super User. — M4HdYaR 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by ChrisF
What do you want to know? — ChrisF ♦ 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@M4HdYaR from stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic software tools commonly used by programmersrene 40 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by weegee
@M4HdYaR checking a port is done for what intent? To allow a applet to run there. Be it MySQL or a web server. It is not related to programming but indeed on-topic unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programmingweegee 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Adnan
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Mari-LouA you're seriously coming to a site you don't use to tell a moderator how to format an faq on the site? — Yvette Colomb ♦ 7 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@M4HdYaR I disagree that Windows Server is for "general computing" — VLAZ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@weegee It can be done for many intents, penetration testing, Connecting with a software, Configure your modem, Port forwarding ..... — M4HdYaR 48 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by weegee
Looks like you are confusing the word general. General computing here means question like How do I open the start menu on windows? Which are general @M4HdYaR — weegee 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@M4HdYaR "so what is the point of creating different communities ?" I'd like for you to remember what the purpose of the whole of SE is - to be a repository of valuable content to other users. This is valuable content to other users. Why do you want it gone? — VLAZ 28 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by weegee
Asking a question to detect open ports with any varieties of ways is considered a question regarding tools used primarily for programming. Notice the words here. penetration testing, Port forwarding are some things that can use this thread which is Good! But the truth is, it is mostly used for programming. @M4HdYaR — weegee 45 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@VLAZ It is as many non programmers use windows server. — M4HdYaR 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
all I can see is George deleting his own comments. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by VLAZ
@M4HdYaR that doesn't make it a general tool. It's still specialised - people aren't running Windows Server at their desktops at home. Not on a massive scale, at least. — VLAZ 23 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by ChrisF
@M4HdYaR the fact that it's Windows Server would tend to preclude it from being on topic for Super User. — ChrisF ♦ 39 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@VLAZ Because we delete or migrate every other new off-topic posts regardless of it is helpful or not. — M4HdYaR 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
I checked his comments and there's no sign of abuse. I'd recommend you delete this. It's not really going to help achieve anything at this point. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@weegee Why do you think open ports use primarily for programming ?!!! Many SysAdmins use it without knowing anything about programming... — M4HdYaR 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
@VLAZ I agree it is specialized but not specialized to programmers. — M4HdYaR 25 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
George, why are you deleting comments of yours and then leaving behind multiple replies that are rendered meaningless by doing so, including on this very answer? I was worried that somebody had started targeting you with abusive flags in retaliation for your recent actions (as if we didn't have enough problems on our plate)... but no, Yvette tells me (10k+ only) that the comments of yours that have disappeared were deleted by you. What are you doing? — Mark Amery 47 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
I'm already flagged and it is now on hold, My question was why this post isn't known as off-topic till now. — M4HdYaR 52 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by ChrisF
@M4HdYaR It's not uncommon for off-topic questions to remain open until someone questions it here. Not everyone will agree that it's off topic, it might not be seen by enough 3,000+ rep users before any existing close votes age away, etc, — ChrisF ♦ 12 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
Finding this page was a Herculean effort, see: stackoverflow.com/help/search?q=FAQ Where is the link that directly leads users to this page? — Mari-Lou A 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by M4HdYaR
Thank you for your answer, I wish everybody answered me just like you. — M4HdYaR 5 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Braiam
Oh, come on. Windows Server, Windows 10, Linux, etc. the operative system doesn't matter. General OS questions aren't programming questions. — Braiam 23 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@Braiam but it was a nice exercise in trying to win an argument .... — rene 28 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
Here's a radical idea. Keep meta, users can post questions but only moderators should post answers. If there's a duplicate question, and there are hundreds, then close them as duplicates linking them to the original post. Users can post comments underneath answers, answers are improved or fixed, then after one month all the comments are deleted. Each and every one. I shouldn't have to trawl thousands of words to be sure if everything has been mentioned in an answer. There can also be more than one answer. Users can express their agreement using necessary voting tools. Keep it simple! — Mari-Lou A 47 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
...OR the comments can all be moved to chat after 72 hours. — Mari-Lou A 8 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
This can’t be a duplicate as it’s about a specific question. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mari-Lou A
You probably need to read the following post and keep in mind all the suggestions and tips mentioned. Getting to Know Stack Overflow's Voting Culture. — Mari-Lou A 1 min ago
 
1:03 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Houseman
"Moderators do not have the time to be fielding frequent questions about comment deletions" Request for clarification: does this mean that asking a new question "appealing" the deletion of your comment is disallowed? Is this a rule or a "Don't expect mods to look at your appeal" sort of thing? — Houseman 1 min ago
 
1:19 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Houseman it means moderators are human beings and also members of the community and we're tired. It means comments are not important and it's time people realise this. No one is saying "don't comment" what we're saying is "if it falls in these parameters it's likely to be deleted" To be completely honest. I'm fed up with double sided coin questions "why was my flag declined" or the flip side "why was my comment deleted". We cannot win. We are tired. We don't have the control over where this site goes. We are simply doing a job. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
Answers and new meta posts are always a better way to convey and retain important information. Comments are not the way to retain information you want others to find. They are locally significant but globally useless when compared to a post on the topic. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Houseman
@YvetteColomb that doesn't seem to answer my question. Yes or no: Are "appeal" questions allowed or disallowed? If yes, should we expect moderators to look at them? Yes or no. Mods being fed-up is off-topic. I can ask a new question about it, if you want. — Houseman 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Houseman mods being exhausted is relevant, as we're the ones expected to handle flags and then questions about flags and mod actions on meta. It means, the question would not want to be a duplicate of the many questions already on meta. No one is banning asking, but this post and the other duplicate questions will probably answer most questions like it. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 41 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Houseman
@YvetteColomb So if I understand this correctly, you're saying that a "why was my comment deleted" question will get marked as a duplicate and sent to a boilerplate "here are the rules" answer? Just checking. — Houseman 5 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Houseman unless there is something specific about it that makes it different, yes. If you do a quick search on meta you'll see how many are asked. There comes a point where mods are going to burn out. We have put a lot of effort into the site too. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 17 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Houseman
@YvetteColomb Okay, thanks. Added "What if I feel my comment shouldn't have been deleted?" to reflect this. — Houseman 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Houseman No, I rolled it back. Honestly. We're not encouraging people to post more posts about comments. We want less about comments. They take up way too much time as it is. We cannot micromanage comments. — Yvette Colomb ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Houseman
@YvetteColomb That seems like you're intentionally hiding information. If you didn't want to have to deal with the consequences of "tightening up comments", maybe you shouldn't have decided to "tighten up comments" in the first place. — Houseman 7 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Yvette Colomb
@Houseman the writing is on the wall. Comments are tightened. The employees have drawn a line in the sand and the mod team is helping to moderate that line. I'm not hiding anything. I'm stating "this is how comments are moderated" it's a fact and it's not open to debate whenever someone is unhappy to have their opinion removed from the internet — Yvette Colomb ♦ 17 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
"We cannot micromanage comments" - then why are you doing so? I can understand removing ad-hominem attacks etc. But why all this expanded enforcement? No one was asking for this. The community reaction was overwhelmingly against this. — mason 56 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
"The employees have drawn a line" - fine, but you don't work for the employees. You were elected to represent the community's interests. — mason 59 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
Hi! Please take your arguments against moderation to the appropriate place meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/387883 this post discusses the criteria for move and delete, not whether we should do it at all. — George Stocker ♦ 8 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@GeorgeStocker I was there, as you well know and I linked to above. The community reaction was overwhelmingly against this action. So pointing that out here seems particularly relevant to this discussion. — mason 10 secs ago
 
2:13 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
This list currently doesn't clearly address comments that offer reasoned disagreement with a post (or previous comment) but without suggesting specific changes to it. Maybe even a single such comment is meant to be interpreted as "debate", but I can't tell. — Mark Amery 22 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mark Amery
Also, this answer instructs us to "use chat instead" for debates but that's not in our power to do until such time as there actually is a chat to go into. Unless we're meant to create our own rooms and post our own links to them, but that'd be a novel process we've never tried in the past and I don't think most of us even know how to do it, how chat works, or what the chat-specific rules and norms are. I just went to look and I'm supposed to testify that no similar room exists as a condition of creating a room; the site seems to be deliberately discouraging us from doing so frivolously. — Mark Amery 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
On that specific post, the swift tag has lang-swift configured. You can see what language is configured on the tag wiki pages. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 21 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Cocoa-touch has lang-c set as the highlighter. If any of the other tags have a different syntax configured then code will be marked up with the default highlighter which will result in “odd” choices for what constitutes a comment or a keyword in certain languages. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
The work-around is to add explicit language markers on your code blocks. See the duplicate. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@GeorgeStocker And where do you suggest we go when you've ignored the community's view on the question you've linked to? — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
This is probably more useful as a small section on the other FAQ proposal. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
It’s a bit borderline. The point where developer use of general computing knowledge turns into general computing is a blurry one. I’m inclined to see this one on the wrong side of the line but don’t feel strongly enough about it to mod-hammer it at this point. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
But the argument that a developer often needs to check if a port is open is a very slippery slope, ending in asking how to best keep your laptop connected to the internet while working on a boat... Just because a developer and a computer is involved doesn’t protect a question from being off topic for general computing reasons. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mason feel free to raise a new meta question about your position, and seek input from the community, but as we’ve been pretty clear in saying: comments are expected to be on topic to the post at hand. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
(The Windows Server argument makes it sound like a topic for Server Fault; a different specialised subset of computing topics). — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
@M4HdYaR the post received a close vote (from a well-respected community member with a very good track record of community moderation) but the close review never gained enough attention so the close vote aged away. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 42 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
The post was voted as belonging on Server Fault in January 2012 but didn’t gain enough close votes and another “general computing” CV failed in 2015, again due to lack of attention, not because people disagreed. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 20 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
@Mari-LouA the index isn’t directly linked, only the faq is, from the [What is Meta]() help — Martijn Pieters ♦ 5 secs ago
 
3:09 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Because also missing is that the community learned what works and what doesn’t, over time. The “best programmer joke” post of yesteryear would not survive very long today, because we now know that such posts don’t work in our format. Also missing is the change from “downvotes on questions cost you reputation” to “downvotes on questions are free”, which really helped with handling bad questions. Etc. Those changes have had major impact on how users help curate content. — Martijn Pieters ♦ 19 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martijn Pieters
Yes, deleted posts are in the database and I didn’t properly see that you used the postswithdeleted table there. But the post editing, voting and closing history is not; what percentage of posts were reopened after editing, what percentage of posts gained a lot of votes early on, for what reasons? — Martijn Pieters ♦ 1 min ago
 
3:23 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by yivi
@gparyani So? What’s your point exactly? — yivi 38 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by gparyani
@yivi New users with less than 125 reputation can only ask one question every 90 minutes. — gparyani 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by gparyani
@yivi So it's not exactly the case that "the vast majority of users never hit these rate limits". — gparyani 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by yivi
@gparyani I still maintain that statement is true. — yivi 11 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by E_net4
@gparyani Asking a new question every 90 minutes is hardly enough time for proper research. It's reasonable to prefer not to modify or add complexity to the database queries just to improve the UX of this particular user group. — E_net4 6 secs ago
 
3:45 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Martin James
Here is today's punchbag: stack overflow p7339519/758133 — Martin James 36 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
@MartijnPieters Only the deleted posts have no PostHistory in the db, the closed (but not deleted) ones have. They show that othe overwhelming majority of the questions closed once, are closed now. This ratio is probably even more strong in the case of the deletions. Thus, while it causes a little error - note, I admitted it already in the query description - but not a significant one. — peterh 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
@MartijnPieters Another proof: this refined query counts only the last closures/deletions if they happened in 30 days after the post creation. As you can see, there is no visible difference from the original. — peterh 1 min ago
 
4:01 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
@MartijnPieters Anyways, the stat counts the probability of that a newly posted question ends up well-received. It doesn't say, why - but the other two queries do. They show that the voting activities did not decrease, but they are becoming increasingly concentrated (for the posts of a subset of the users). — peterh 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
@MartijnPieters Yet more clearly: the SO has cut itself from its own resupply, and only the social intertia keeps it in life. If nothing happens... do you remember comp.os.* ? — peterh 51 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
@JL2210 Tyvm the edit! — peterh 53 secs ago
 
5:01 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
In theory CMs can migrate posts even after 60 days, but they do it only very rarely. — peterh 1 min ago
 
5:17 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Kevin
@JGreenwell: Indeed. I do not foresee this problem being fixed overnight. It will likely take years. However, they have at least stated that they are aware of the problem, and I don't really think we have much alternative to giving them the benefit of the doubt, aside from leaving the site altogether. Some people may have already done that, of course. — Kevin 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Clive
You can keep asking, but it’s pointless @mason. When we have one or two moderators ignoring the rules and unilaterally serving their own agenda, there’s nothing we can do but gather evidence over a longer period of time, and hope someone listens when we feel we have enough (I started this a while back; this comment will be deleted because it mentions said agenda, luckily we now have meta backups for true posterity). — Clive 21 secs ago
 
5:37 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by peterh
Only mod can delete/undelete the comment of others, you can him in a flag (below the post). The chance of the undeletion is low. If you have some important to say, it is better to prefer answers. They can't be deleted for anything. — peterh 45 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Kevin
How do you propose to compile this description? It should be quite short, so we can't just use the question or an answer, and repeating the page title is a no-no. — Kevin 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tom
Since this issue is network wide, I wonder if it would be more suited on meta.stackexchange.com? — Tom 59 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tom
@Kevin Posts have a twitter:description value, which could be used for description as well. — Tom 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Shog9
So... I checked the stats on this, @Clive, and there's something you should probably consider: this is way more than 1-2 mods. A majority of the mod team was barely even participating here, leaving a handful of moderators to shoulder both the bulk of the communication and the bulk of the moderation on meta. That means a couple mods deleting thousands of comments, but never keeping up. Now the rest are here, helping to shoulder the load, and they want to hammer out guidelines. That's the agenda. — Shog9 ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Shog9
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Robert Longson
 
6:09 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Clive
@Shog9 Appreciate you taking the time to check, thanks. I’m afraid I don’t agree, having witnessed first hand recently the agenda I’m talking about. If understand there’s also a general agenda, but that’s not what I was referring to — Clive just now
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
That "includes a bit of source" is complete and utter nonsense that should never have been put in the ask question wizard. Only debugging questions require code. — Tiny Giant 21 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tiny Giant
sigh every question that Martin doesn't like gets compared to the boat programming question. — Tiny Giant 27 secs ago
 
6:33 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
@TinyGiant but for him boat programming is important. He is on an island after all ... — rene 22 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Tam&#225;s Sengel
@YvetteColomb This is art. — Tamás Sengel 1 min ago
 
7:07 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by rene
You better edit the question to include the extra info you gave in the comments. Accept the answer that helped you most. We can't help you with that. It is up to you. Once you are > 60 rep you can offer a bounty (will cost you 50 rep) to award the other answer if you feel to it, otherwise an simple upvote is all there is. — rene 56 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Hovercraft Full Of Eels
It's best not to ask a question and then shift requirements after it has been answered. If the question as originally stated has been answered, and you have a new problem, then ask a new question. — Hovercraft Full Of Eels 1 min ago
 
7:33 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Compo
As the preferred, but currently unaccepted answer was mine, question here for reference, and the additional information from the comments was 100% unrelated to the problem or my solution, (although used for completeness), there is no good reason not to accept it. — Compo 33 secs ago
 
8:17 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by John Hennig
Not an answer. This post is a long and rambling way of saying "Meta is like Main" when it comes to comments. It briefly admits that "in the case of meta, comments are more liberal", but then adds literally nothing that would elaborate the difference in deletion policy. — John Hennig 44 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Andras Deak
@JohnHennig it's an answer by any meaning possible on Stack Overflow. You might not like it, or find it short of satisfactory, in which case you are free to downvote it. But it's definitely an answer. — Andras Deak 1 min ago
 
8:33 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@johnhennig there isn’t really a difference except to say we aren’t as quick on the delete button as we are on main. We will literally delete comments without a thought on main. We at least think about it here, however briefly. — George Stocker ♦ 1 min ago
 
8:47 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Hovercraft Full Of Eels
Wrong site as this is the meta site. Are you banned from asking on the main site? If not, then ask there. — Hovercraft Full Of Eels 6 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Annonymous
I figured I asked in the wrong place. First 5 seconds of posting already -2 votes. Atleast you told me that. I was so confused as to what I did wrong. — Annonymous 26 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Hovercraft Full Of Eels
The down-votes don't affect your reputation here, but do allow us to delete this question quickly. — Hovercraft Full Of Eels 28 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Trilarion
@TravisJ But how do I find the good content? Whenever I go looking for it I only find the crap. My search abilities are not good enough and I also remember others mentioning problems finding the good content. — Trilarion 1 min ago
 
9:23 PM
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@GeorgeStocker You delete comments without a thought? Is that hyperbole? Or are you saying that we don't need moderators if all you're doing is rubber stamping things? — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by George Stocker
@mason not sure if the idiom is being lost in translation, so let me say it in a way that hopefully will not be twisted: we are told to default delete comments on main. We do this, and it’s good advice. We do not spend more than a few seconds deciding whether to keep or delete a comment on main. On meta, we spend more time thinking about it than we do on main. — George Stocker ♦ 26 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Catija
This is a bit broad and open to interpretation. How do you define "nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion at hand"? Is meta commentary about the post itself required to stick around? What about obsolete comments? What about noisy things like jokes that may be topical but add nothing to the discussion? — Catija ♦ 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Makyen
Can messages on a post be moved to a new chat room more than once? If so, and you already have an existing room, it would be possible to move new comments to a new chat room, then move the created chat messages from that room into the chat room which was already existing. That would effectively give you #3. — Makyen 57 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mithrandir
@Makyen - Currently they cannot be moved more than once, at least through the UI. I believe someone has hacked together something that directly makes the calls that allows you to do it more than once, but that's... not exactly available to most people. — Mithrandir 11 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Mithrandir
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by duplode
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Hovercraft Full Of Eels
It is fine to ask these questions, but just not on this site. Quora might work well for such questions, and I believe that there are other sites that welcome these as well. — Hovercraft Full Of Eels 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by duplode
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by flashburn
@HovercraftFullOfEels What other sites you are aware of besides Quora? — flashburn 12 secs ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@Catija Are they actively hurting something by being there? Before we expend a lot of effort (and frustration) removing comments, we would need to decide whether they're really that bad. In the case of ad hominem attacks, I think we all agree it's justified. But jokes? On topic but long winded conversations? What are those hurting? And is removing them the proper thing to do...or would our time be better spent encouraging the devs to get us a better way of dealing with noisy comment sections, such as threaded conversations? — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by mason
@Trilarion I would have upvoted this (I chose not to vote) except for the part about "moved to chat". I see chat as a way of shoving the conversation into a painful UI that won't actually promote discussion and thus leads to the discussion dying. — mason 1 min ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Hovercraft Full Of Eels
@flashburn: Reddit is another — Hovercraft Full Of Eels 2 mins ago
[ Boson | Higgs ] New comment posted by Catija
@mason Doesn't really matter what I think. This is being written to help guide the moderators in how to act... but it's necessary to be detailed and clear about what is expected else they will be able to interpret as they wish... which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it's not really going to relieve the stress you're all feeling right now. The last sentence says "simple and easy to follow" but... it's anything but. — Catija ♦ 1 min ago
 
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