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07:53
powered by chatgpt
But just wait like 3-5 more years, then ai bots will start dropping again
 
2 hours later…
10:22
@paul23 In 3-5 years, we'd have a lively discussion by only chatbots. With the occasional human butting in and probably being kicked/banned for disrupting the order of the chatbot chatter.
Mostly joking. Mostly.
 
3 hours later…
13:37
It's hilarious that AI is 100% under human control, yet humans are afraid of AI taking over everything and at the same time, they are purposely trying to get AI to be just like a human, as fast as possible.
 
2 hours later…
15:25
@ParkingMaster Uh, the "under human control" is the problem. Because AI is most definitely not developed with human control in mind. Consider no AI, just code - code is developed by humans, right, so it should be safe? Yet it's not. Not while development. Infinite loops and app-crashing bugs are not uncommon. These don't tend to harm more than the testing machine, though. Had a friend who programmed microcontrollers and fried one with bad code, though.
Now enter AI - humans develop it to in general make autonomous decisions. It is very easy to carelessly set up parameters for a task such as an AI fulfilling it is not only harmful but also unstoppable (without a shutdown, that is). He haven't had a paperclip maximiser scenario. However, nothing in AI development at this point seems to be aimed at preventing it.
There is a double edged sword at play here, though, "modern AI development" is not really developing an AI in the classical sense. It's more or less a Chinese room like what Searle described. The LLM development doesn't tend to take autonomous decisions or actions. Tries to produce human-readable work (text, code, images) instead. So, it is safer than a paperclip AI. That doesn't at all mean "safe".
LLMs have been used for disinformation, spam, and scams. It's easier than ever to start massive campaigns targetting whatever you want - promoting a product, disseminating information (be it true or falsified), or whatever. One does not even need to be malicious, since the tool is just easy to use, even careless usage can lead to harm. There are AI written books sold, for example. There is at least one on mushrooms that incorrectly claims poisonous mushrooms are safe to eat.
Did the author intend to mislead others? I don't know but I don't believe so. It seems way more likely they just generated the product using not much effort and just put it on Amazon for essentially free cash. So, not malicious. But also probably unethical. Same tech has been used to generate "news" articles of (at best) dubious quality for free cash again (ad revenue). LLM chatbots have also been used to replace humans in some fields. In many cases where you really want human supervision.
I can point at the news again. Several news agencies axed large portion of their staff and left an LLM to very cheaply churn out articles. Articles where it's unclear if anybody does any verification on them before publishing. And some where it's clear nobody does. Again, malicious? Probably not. Unethical - most likely. There is an old slogan that gets more and more relevant nowadays: A computer can never be held accountable. Therefore, a computer must never make a management decision".
This is from at least 1979. That's the first date I can find it being used in a presentation. Most likely it's older. However, developers that try to employ shoehorn modern AI (well, you know - stochatic LLM parrots) more and more into automating tasks. It's a matter of time of somebody using one wrong enough to cause real world-wide harm. There is not a trend for "if" it happens, the trend is for "when".
In summary, 100% within human control might be a gross over-estimation.
@ParkingMaster The only people afraid of AI are those that completely lack comprehension of how AI works, and what AI's limitations are.
I mean, I know what the limitations are very well. I'm afraid of the people who don't and keep assuring me that LLMs are magically capable of overcoming these limitations. Because...blind faith, I guess.
@VLAZ So you're not afraid of the AI, you're afraid of incompetent managers :D
Which is completely rational
15:40
OK, hard to really blame all such people. Because many are very far away from experts in this field. They've been shown a shiny toy that does work like magic to them. Also, the marketing of "AI" does try to paint it as if it's magic.
Someone I know had management tell him he was required to have CoPilot enabled because that would increase productivity...
I mean, there's people who work on it who think it's magic
Like... As if they can force him to use it
@KevinB what they communicate and what they know it to be may not be the same thing
It's all marketing.
@Cerbrus Hardly managers. I talked to a relative recently and he expressed how shocked he was by AI being competent. And he based this on nothing more than a parlour trick - he asked it something like "Give me reasons for <x>" and it responded with a bunch of arguments. He didn't know about <x>, it was something his kid asked him about. And he's very much not into the tech field, either. So, what I'd consider not very impressive (and potentially hilarious to try and break) he was captivated by.
So, did you explain the parlour trick?
15:45
Well, tried to.
Although, I'm not sure how much I succeeded. He works in a casino (something related to croupiers - he used to be one, he's maybe their a manager or something similar now. Not super sure). He was interested to know whether ChatGPT could be used to cheat in casinos because he recalled how blackjack was "cracked" (there are systems you can use to maximise chance of success), so he wanted to know whether AI can "solve" other games like roulettes.
Which...well, they can't. It's so fundamentally outside of their capabilities that it's like asking whether horses can replace apples. However, he didn't know. That's basically the view of the average person on what AI is.
Most of that can be solved by explaining the limitations
and most of that is caused by AI being advertised as some magic solution to everything...
@Cerbrus Right. I can do that. To one person at a time. That still leaves another 100 clueless. Well, 100 that I might have explained it to, I suppose. Realistically, there would be thousands of people out there.
@Cerbrus potato potato
Eh, no, that's the difference in being somewhat knowledgable about what AI can and cannot do.
I had a colleague who knew almost nothing about chatbots. Well, he knew they existed but hardly interacted with them or followed them. And he's a technical guy. But doesn't have any background in AI. You don't need background but it helps if you do. You can get a feel for how it works just by using chatbots. He did end up educating himself on the topic but still required effort and time. And most of all, motivation. Many would just be happy to accept the magic text box as magic.
15:55
AI feels like it's going to have some kind of kessler syndrome: the "terrible" ai starts swarming the world, which makes it near impossibleto make future "good" ai again.
Not only is AI thought as magic, but people who aren't knowledgeable about how it works seem to also be mislead about how the world works. We have regular questions on SO that go along the lines of "ChatGPT told me <x> is possible. I tried it and can't do it. How should I fix my code". But what they ask for is not, and has never, been possible. Like, say, reading the name of a variable.
i mean... technically..
I'm not going to search for that question now but there was literally one, where ChatGPT claimed you can have something like const foo = "whatever" and then read "foo" from that variable. By doing something that obviously cannot do it.
@paul23 On that note, things are only going to be worse in the future. Now ChatGPT and the AI craze is only 2 years old. So, even if you were in university when it started, you might not even have graduated yet. But in another 2-3 years when the tech is 4-5 years old, we'd be seeing the first wave of people who graduated only thanks to AI tools. Probably without any real knowledge.
I worked with one similar person. Pre-ChatGPT but he joined as junior straight out of uni. Well, you know - university graduates are not supposed to be the most knowledgeable and that's OK. But he was sorely lacking fundamental skills. My team lead pulled me aside once and asked me if OO was still taught in universities (I was a bit older than the junior. So, we'd have had comparable education). And I had to assume my team lead that yes, it does.
The hire we had was apparently not very well versed. Here is just a couple of examples: 1. He didn't know about inheritance. Like, he extended a class with a child class and copied over all methods from the parent. 2. He was shocked that you don't need something like if (collection.length) before a loop like for (const item of collection). I had to explain to him that looping over an empty collection is fine, it's just a no-op.
I'm not sure how he graduated university. But he did. We'd be seeing more of this. Now consider that it's not only going to be developers - what if it's also the nurse that is taking care of you?
17:06
OO wasn't at all part of what was covered when i went through that 2 year course
like... they only covered the extreme basics. loops, if statements, generic variable handling/logic,
but also... there's a lot of... "new" stuff in JS since i went through that course, heh
Class, destructuring, const/let, arrow functions, promises,
17:38
For the record, the guy graduated and joined us as a Java developer. I translated the loop to JS for this room. But it was really just the Java foreach loop construct: for (Item item : collection)

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