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14:01
hello
@Neil i updated question with output screenshot stackoverflow.com/questions/52384620/…
@SamDasti Oh, you're using a plugin
lol
You use a plugin, and then you completely bypass the plugin to add data to it
that's bad. don't do that
Use the plugin completely, or don't use the plugin at all
Don't mix and match
this plugin probably has an internal means to determine if data has been added
@Neil ofcourse jquery dataTable is a plugin And i need its features with my data.
@SamDasti ok, so what did the documentation say to do to add data?
And are you doing it that way?
If not, that's what you need to fix
wan to remove the error from the top
@Neil how can i convert it the genuine method of dataTable
14:13
@SamDasti I'm not familiar with that plugin. This is where we part ways..
Make it work with the plugin or don't use the plugin.
That is how you get rid of the error message at the top
user1596138
14:36
@BenjaminGruenbaum Idk how I came across your question on Travel.SE haha
user1596138
I posted a good source you can check out. Pretty sure it applies the same to traffic lights as pedestrian crossings
Just recovered from a nasty error. Installed the amd drivers for ubuntu and they destroyed my boot lol
had to go into recovery and uninstall using shell
@BenjaminGruenbaum meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/374239/… chat flags still broken :P
user1596138
@rlemon Wtf is up with the first sentence
nothing? reads fine for me
user1596138
14:44
Why did he include it lol
to give context about the message
user1596138
Seems bait-ey to post on Meta
what?
user1596138
lol
Python recently removed master/slave from some shit. jumped on that band wagon. they were discussing it, and without context his message was flagged.
user1596138
14:44
I don't think it adds anything to the question. Specific context isn't necessary, chat's just still broken
user1596138
Yea he is pointing out that no one agrees with the master/slave discussion. That was my point anyway
the entire post is about flags without context, providing the context for his example is baiting?
user1596138
> (in short nobody seemed to agree).
user1596138
Like good for you buddy lol
Hacktoberfest is near. Time to track all uses of master/slave, blacklist/whitelist and send PR. Maintainers will sure rejoice.
14:46
Why did you remove that?
user1596138
It's an opinion, adds nothing to the question
It's not an opinion, it's an explanation of the discussion
user1596138
Add it back if you're so inclined. But I think I can justify removing it moreso than you can adding it back ;P not that it matters
user1596138
No "We don't agree on master/slave" is not an explanation
He doesn't even say whether they disagree that it's offensive or they disagree with each other.
user1596138
14:47
It's simply his opinion on a controversial topic.
user1596138
Yeah. That's all I removed.
user1596138
2 mins ago, by Lucky Kleinschmidt
> (in short nobody seemed to agree).
No it's not, you're not reading it the way I did
user1596138
He said nobody agrees it's offensive, it's just a little jab heh
He did not say that
user1596138
14:48
I read it that way. You read it a different way. He said both
He might have meant that, but it's ambiguous
and if he did mean that, that doesn't mean it was said in bad faith
user1596138
I disagree, you are welcome to post edits on any question on Meta.
You disagree that it's ambiguous?
@Shmiddty happy birthday!
user1596138
This is why it's community managed. If I'm wrong you guys will fix it
user1596138
14:49
Yeah I think it's clear cut given the rest of the context. That's my opinion and I acted on it.
user1596138
@Cerbrus rolled back anyway
I think your bias towards the issue is seriously affecting your reading comprehension
user1596138
I don't have any bias on this issue?
Yea, don't apply your own bias to someone's meta question
user1596138
I don't think it's offensive if you're asking me.
user1596138
14:50
What bias lol
I agree that banning master/slave is wrong, but I first read it as "we disagreed with each other"
user1596138
I don't read it that way. Still.
user1596138
You said it's ambigious
You don't see how it could mean that?
user1596138
That means you are right. I am right.
user1596138
14:51
Phone up OP to ask or be just as wrong as me
I have no idea what you mean by that
They all disagreed with the view that those words are offensive.
user1596138
I didn't remove any useful context from the question. I simply tried to defuse a potential issue early. It adds nothing to the question but it's ambiguous and could be taken the way I took it
That's what I read.
user1596138
Untwist ur panties gawd haha
14:52
@LuckyKleinschmidt You also didn't improve the question. The general rule is that neutral edits are not useful and discouraged
user1596138
Yall so uptight. Get over yourself, it's a meta question and we all have rights to improve questions on this exchange.
1: editing it can be the catalyst of the discussion you're trying to avoid.
2: Joke's on you. I'm not wearing any panties.
You're the one that made it into a big deal.
Hey, quick(?) question - I'm fairly familiar with Javascript syntax, but not idioms so much. If you want to have required parameters, is there a preferred way to do it? I forget what the name of this syntax is, but I started using constructor ({this, that, theOther}), though I've been told that constructor(optionOne, optionTwo, required) is preferable, with required being an object argument.
user1596138
14:54
I could've just done it quietly. I asked for opinion.
> obviously noble reasons
lol
"tried to remove some controversy" > That's the start of every controversy.
user1596138
Oh can;t flag?
@MadaraUchiha
can we just close this discussion ?
14:55
@LuckyKleinschmidt I kicked you. you moved from discussion into attacks and insults. deleting the message won't protect you.
Question about master/slave terminology - was it ever used in a context that didn't at some point echo master/slave terminology as we used it in the south?
unacceptable.
@WayneWerner HDDs.
I know there are a lot of strong feelings on both sides of the discussion/argument in the broader world...
@WayneWerner You mean whether they ever meant anything other than slavery?
14:57
No - I know they were used to talk about HDDs, etc.
but obviously slavery predated HDDs by a few years :P
@WayneWerner at this point it's just a practical terminology, one that everybody can easily understand. Using it doesn't mean we find slavery ok
I don't know what you're asking then
My understanding is that people who are for keeping the terms "master/slave" are people who say, "This doesn't have anything to do with slavery!"
It seems analogous to the word "port", which is not related to a shipping port
while people who want to change it are saying, "It has slave right there in its name!"
My question is, yes, obviously having master and slave HDDs does not automatically mean you condone or accept slavery as anything but a blight on humanity
14:59
of course it's related to slavery, it makes it easier to understand. And so ? If you were a slave in the past I'm sorry to you, you might find it slightly not tasty but how could it offend you : it's not as if using the term asks for slavery to come back
@WayneWerner well, US slavery outside of prisons, at any rate.
@Hypersapien and CC debt.
@WayneWerner The problem is that people in favor of the change are changing valid terminology because a word, depending on context, can have different meanings. They're applying the wrong context to a perfectly valid word.
We're cool with all kinds of slavery here in the US, as long as we can call it a different name
15:00
And then accuse us of discrimination and racism if we oppose the change
e.g. "marriage"
user1596138
@rlemon Protect me from what? I made a concious decision right there. :)
user1596138
!!afk
@WayneWerner comments like that really seem to undermine real slavery.
I think he meant real slavery
15:01
@Cerbrus So that's the question that I'm asking. Before slavery as we knew/know it - the horrible racist institution that I hope we all agree is pretty much the worst thing ever - was master/slave used in some context?
slavery isn't necessarily racist. It was only in specific historical contexts
@WayneWerner computers adopted a bunch of words that had different meanings.
@WayneWerner In terms of inanimate objects, you mean?
@DenysSéguret not always. But more often than not.
15:02
I don't get what that point is trying to make
@WayneWerner: The concept of slavery is older than the words "master" and "slave".
@KendallFrey In terms of anything
So, chicken / egg problem
well obviously the word slave was applied to humans before the american slave trade
because as far as I'm aware, "master/slave" means exactly what it means
15:03
@WayneWerner context
whether we're talking about slavery in the US, african-african slavery, slavery in Egypt, or anywhere else
@WayneWerner yeah like in BDSM
In the context of computing, it has nothing to do with the slavery in the context of humans working
where the terms are widely accepted and used.
@Loktar Though I'd be happy to argue that BDSM relationships are more healthy than CC and other debt relationships in the US
15:04
@WayneWerner You're asking whether the word slave existed prior to the concept of slavery?
... What
why does that even matter? words can contain more than one meaning based on context. english do like dat
Comparing slavery to credit cards?
@Cerbrus yeah that's what I meant about his comments devaluing the real meaning of slavery
Are you sure you aren't accidentally trolling?
15:05
CC debt is of your own making, completely voluntary
I'd argue that
@Loktar Not always
It can be
No one forced your hand signing up for the card
@Loktar man.. I have a method called createModbusMaster, am I the baddies?
@Loktar this
15:06
@Loktar That could be like saying "no one forced her to get into the van, they just made the alternative very unpleasant"
@Loktar That might be true, but it depends on how far you allow the definition of "force"
I have so many whitelists in my code...
@KendallFrey people generally don't register for a CC at gunpoint...
if you mean, nobody grabbed your hand and made you write your signature, I'd totally agree with that
(I have some code which goes around saying "white good, black bad" while filtering requests...)
15:07
white hat, black hat
but if you've never been in a situation where you had to make a choice between becoming homeless and going without food, or taking on CC debt
@Cerbrus Of course not, the analogous unpleasantness would be the consequences of not being able to afford necessities
@WayneWerner I have, I took the debt. Still my fault
@WayneWerner Then the CC debt is still a choice.
15:08
'Poor people need to work harder to be less poor. It's their own fault!'
@Cerbrus You can't "blame" someone for making the "correct" choice, can you?
That's not what I'm saying.
Question (not meaning that slavery and CC can really be compared): is education related debt in US only contracted by adults ? Or can it practically start before ?
but it's just like saying, "Well, if they just migrated to a different part of Africa then they wouldn't have ended up as slaves!"
Wayne is arguing that a credit card debt is comparable to slavery.
That's just an absurd analogy
15:09
@WayneWerner no it's much differnt
@WayneWerner Another absurd analogy
In what way?
it's like saying, well if they didn't willingly sign up and then use more credit than they could afford they wouldn't have debt!
You can also go bankrupt, you can get out of debt
getting out of slavery was MUCH harder
You can compare two things without implying that they're equal
It's like saying "If they didn't knowingly sign up to be a slave, they wouldn't be slaves"
15:11
@Loktar That's absolutely true
That's how similar a CC is to slavery
I mean, yeah, CC debt is closer to indentured servitude
Imagine if all the Roman slaves in reality just owned massive debt because they bought cool shit.
That's a historical twist.
Spartacus was just someone fighting for insolvency
but I'm Spartacus!
lol
15:12
this IS JAVASCRIPT!!!!
Looks like it's best to move onto a different subject though folks...
2
@WayneWerner I think that's like saying LA is closer to New York than to Boston
agreed
but in modern American society, we're trying to make things more like slavery than less
15:13
I think he was trying to imply that the wages for a vast majority of people have fallen behind even though economic output has grown. To the point that it seems like modern day slavery. Big corporations making rules and laws that punish those without money even further.
@WayneWerner We're trying? I don't see that
@TravisWhite that
Let's move on...
hEy GuYs jS iS dUmB
Who is jS?
15:14
@KendallFrey not enough jQuery
@KendallFrey tweet it for better exposure. It works every time
annnnyway
1 message moved to Trash
Is there actually a preferred idiom for required arguments in JS?
not really
it's more common to not have them in the options object, but that's about all
15:17
hi
I always miss a BDFL in other languages :P lol
hi @KevinB. We needed more people to discuss whether CC debt is slavery
Is it just me or are a lot of (even popular) javascript libraries very dependent on a single contributor?
i wouldn't know
@paul23 Is that specific to Javascript ?
15:18
@paul23 well, among the tools that I've used
@BadgerCat oh you
i mean... i'd assume most libraries started out that way
specifically I'm thinking of this terminal emulator that had one driving individual who died in some kind of accident I think? Anyway, work on the emulator seems to have gone with him.
Well in python most libraries I use (numpy, sqlalchemy, django) are supported by an actual formal group
Those are very big libraries
15:20
Well, they're huge projects.
I've also noticed that a lot of popular python libs, at least, tend to get more than a single maintainer somewhat quickly
Maybe that's the difference?
Sure, but when I'm reading on "koa or express" a lot of discussion goes about the main maintainer who went off to "go".
@paul23 that happened years ago now, so crazy
I still don't believe he's real tbh
I think he is a group of people
it's a striking and easy to remember fact. It gets remembered
15:22
@paul23 maintainers sometimes shuffle. it's a busy world
Maybe the JS ecosystem encourages smaller packages, while at least with Python, you tend to build larger projects
Also express, or many similar projects, are really small, even if they get used a lot because it's easier to use what everybody uses and what is already ready.
@rlemon it seems to happen a lot in js world.
and why is that a problem?
if 200 people are contributing to a project, and the top guy steps down when it's somewhat stable, but has maintainers to take it forward... what is the problem?
Honestly, in the JS lib world, we have many small libraries that happen to be known just because they were here first and it's more practical to use them than to recode them
15:24
@rlemon yeah but github.com/tj was the top guy on everything!
and consisted of 200 people! :P
that would be like getting angry that a dev at MS who is in charge of X took a new job
that's the only major dev I can think whos stepped away where it mattered at all
the product is still stable, and still has people working on it.
@Loktar I like to call TJ mayo, because he was spread thin.
it's still crazy finding stuff he made
like oh, figures TJ made this
but really, if you made a hundred things people all started using, you'd be getting thousands of issues and PRs
I'd step away from a bunch too if others wanted to step in
15:26
Hello guys! i'm having some trouble getting the result of a function, who can help?
!!tell celsoap7 dontask
@rlemon Yeah. It's a pita to receive requests on old projects we don't want to keep thinking about
@DenysSéguret unsureif..
like an server utility for a game you don't even play anymore...
15:27
I'm not suggesting leaving projects abandoned (well, do what you want). his big projects have people stepping up to maintain them
most popular projects do
I've found this script: codepen.io/Ana_Champion/pen/JRbZEL
I want it to return true or false
how can i call it and get the result the user choosed?
not possible, but you can return a promise
@rlemon just wondering, since another important library seems to be "just removed" (uws/microwebsockets) out of the blue.
okay, that only worked if i added a return at the end of it
15:33
@ThiefMaster any other way of doing it?
@paul23 oic. yea, people who 'own' projects (and not a org) get pissy at npm and stop publishing things
when i call Confirm(...) will the scrip stop until it gets the value?
*script
@rlemon it's why I'm stepping away from microservices for now.
no, which is why you need to return a promise and continue in the success callback of that promise
15:35
Or at least, I'm looking into replacing all our components with components backed up by an organization.
monolyths instead of microservices = less components to check/update = faster developing.
you can always just use a fork from before it was unpublished.
npm should simply completely disallow depublishing more than let's say 1 hour after publishing
what about substituting?
@rlemon Well that kind of defeats the point of "building up on each other".
you can always maintain it ;)
you've already got the building blocks
15:37
yeah, the example pretty much explains how you would use your function
you just need to change it so it returns a promise that gets resolved/rejected depending on the button the user clicks
@rlemon Oh sure, but that would mean even slower production. (Up to the point where just using things like sencha for their support is better).
that's always the issue tho. would it be?
i will try to modify it in order to get a better UI
time spent implementing new libs / getting support there / heck, even finding the lib. all adds up
fixing a few bugs when you encouter them.. maybe not as long
risk/reward
15:39
Well if libraries are packed together so they form bundles that are supported by actual organizations and have a good backup it wouldn't be.
But it seems the node environment doesn't really support/appreciate this mindset.
@ThiefMaster what will i need to replace that "let confirmed = window.confirm(msg);" with custom html?
I had a nightmare about jQuery last night...
Well back to finding a good framework to replace sails with; somthing I can present to the manager and show "our productivity will go up if we start using xyz, and the initial costs are low enough".
@paul23 what's wrong with sails.?
@DavidKamer too many bugs/missing features are just left open for too long. :|
15:48
who decides what is "too long"?
and which bugs are worth fixing?
or which "missing" features are actually "missing"?
A memory leak in the postgres adapter for example still haunts us after nearly a year. (Which in a normal behaviour would mean a server restart once a month, but in our case multiple times a day).
rather than just not necessary
Has anyone ever dealt with replacing an OEM prebuilt's power supply?
The ability to have uniqueness defined over multiple keys in pg/relational databases is unsupported by the waterline syntax.. For 4 years now.
and yet people still use it
15:50
@ShrekOverflow once, yeah. on a Dell slim. Nasty business
not a problem?
@paul23 well I mean.. it's open-source
if you understand the problem, file a PR?
would it take time? yeah. Would it take more time than switching frameworks? Almost certainly not
It is very opinionated when using schemas, and since it doesn't support all features on pg, it's difficult to use it in a full setting where the webserver is only a small part of the application.
(Part backend is written in python, c and the webserver in javascript)
I haven't used it. Does it invert control?
I'm sorry, but what do you mean?
15:56
mmhh I don't think it does, never mind
The orm assumes it is in full control over the database and it is not possible to let it "build ORM based on database itself".
I really like that feature in sqlalchemy, as it allows our C backend (which does the heavy lifting) to actually define everything. Yet you don't have to define the same twice at multiple place thus prevent bugs.
I can appreciate why this isn't implemented: being a single person who does almost all the work it's too much work to fix everything...
But if just waterline, sequelize, bookshelf and those many more orm libraries would finally start to work together inside a single coorperation to create one or a few libraries much more work could be done.
16:28
sequelize.sync().then(() => {
  let server = app.listen(config.port)
  console.log(`// App started at localhost:${config.port} //`)
  io = require('socket.io')(server)
  module.exports = {
    io
  }
})
How can I require io in other modules?
const {io} = require('./app')

wouldn't work
because of that async function, which is wrapped and not "public"
1 message moved to Trash can
@Suisse Please don't post unformatted code - hit Ctrl+K before sending, use up-arrow to edit messages, and see the faq. For posting large code blocks, use a paste site like gist.github.com, hastebin.com, pastie.org or a demo site like jsbin.com
or do I have to make getter and setters for my io instance, which I export then?
I just think that Haskell looks really very gross
it's not easy on the eyes
@forresthopkinsa I like it
you would chime in on haskell
16:41
lol
@KendallFrey maybe just because I'm not very familiar with it, so my brain doesn't auto-translate
@forresthopkinsa imagine how gross JS looks to a Haskell dev
don't need to be a Haskell dev to think that JS looks gross
hahahahaha
but yeah fair point
16:57
//ok solved: I had to export a getter for the IO instance, not the "undefined" io itself at time nor make the module.exports in the callback of sequelize

var io
const getIO = () => {
  return io
}
module.exports = {
  getIO
}

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