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20:02
@CapricaSix "ratio of HE COMES"?
had to google that, how is everybody's day going?
Could this regex be better? regexr.com/3p93s (used in taurus to parse a multipart response in order to then extract properties from each json 'part')
@Earth2Eddie Tony the Pony, he comes.
@rlemon What's with all the garbage around the text?
4424
A: RegEx match open tags except XHTML self-contained tags

bobinceYou can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool th...

20:04
NaN edge case
@ndugger I'd prefer [^}]+ over (?:.|\s)+?
I didn't even think about that
The (?!}) seems redundant because of the (?=--)
right, I added the last part after the fact when I noticed it was broken
I can remove the redundancies
none of the (?:) or () groups are necessary afaict
20:10
[^}] breaks the match in regexr
Have you guys seen the video of a Google assistant making a phone call to make a haircut appointment? Would that be technically passing the Turing test?
did you include +
@Earth2Eddie we were talking about it on here a couple days ago
I don't think Duplex passes the Turing Test because none of the people were presented with the question of whether it was a machine
oh because you're matching nested }
20:11
The thing is they showed one successful case. There could have been 99 other times it completely screwed up
the person has to be aware of the possibility that it's a machine iirc
well the blog post goes into more detail on that
@KendallFrey yeah, I need to match any potential nesting objects, matching an entire chunk of json
if mistaking a bot a few times for a human makes it pass the turing test, Cap passed LONG time ago
I'm assuming that if it gets confused it would reveal that it's a Google Assistant
lolol
@Earth2Eddie if it gets too confused to recover, it passes it off to a human
20:13
{[^]+?}(?=[^]--)
is how i'd write it
now it's how I would write that. don't expect a cheque.
It's probably hyper-context sensitive. Say anything unrelated to scheduling appointments and it'll be lost.
oh wait, I don't think I can use that
[^] is only valid in JS, iirc
right @Michael it has to be INSANELY deeply trained in very specific fields of conversation
What language then?
20:15
No idea, to be honest. Probably java.
leave its area of expertise and it'll pass off to a human
But maybe python
Was it just google assistant? Could you easily try to reproduce the result?
What I had works. I'll just let it be
definitely not Google Assistant. It was Duplex.
20:16
nm just reading the article now
@forresthopkinsa I was using Assistant in a generic sense. I see what you mean, both are specific "products"
they're pretty different AIs though
I just had one of the most interesting CodeMentor sessions ever
I mean, they both utilize DeepMind ig
@BartekBanachewicz Oh yeah?
20:19
@Earth2Eddie yeah. It was with a person who is just starting and has NEVER programmed in anything
How'd it go?
it's interesting to try to communicate the idea of "passing variables into functions" to someone who's never touched it
@BartekBanachewicz Yeahs ago I taught a simple programming course to artists. Was interesting
(years)
imagine describing function syntax for a simple expression that adds two values, where they don't know what's a function, a syntax, an expression or a value
@SomeGuy I've decided to give a veery short introduction, and provided a lot of good resources to study at their own time
I have a request from my client I'm having a hard time figuring out. They want me to set up a web app so that the user can click a link to a PDF and the document automatically open in the same browser tab without a prompt to download and save. Is there a good way to do that?
20:22
I think the basic idea was communicated successfully
also I forgot to mention
it was in Haskell :D (and that was his choice)
@BartekBanachewicz It's odd how different it can be to not think like this, right?
@DanielAllenLangdon if the browser doesn't know how to open a PDF then you'll have to roll your own online pdf viewer
In my class, they were very smart kids but they hadn't seen any of this that I take for granted and a lot they were sending me was rote memory. I figured out that they weren't really getting the idea of variable. Also, they were programming in vague instructions..didn't get the whole idea of how everything has to be very exact. It was like they were talking to a person
@BartekBanachewicz Hahaha wow, for an introduction to programming?
@SomeGuy totally. I stuttered and had to stop and think way more than when explaining intricacies of OpenGL ES vertex attributes
20:22
you can probably use one of a million services for that
Is there one you recommend?
What was their reasoning?
no I'd just google it
find something you can embed, I imagine
@SomeGuy they want to get into blockchain/smart contracts programming, with more scientific approach
20:23
oh wow
blockchain isn't even real
I have to admit I had a hard time stopping myself from saying "contrary to imperative languages" a lot
I guess the myth that imperative programming is more intuitive is just that - a myth
it all depends on how you're taught
I remember being a freshman in high school interested in making games but it was all magic. Once I started messing with TI-85 code, I still didn't understand a whole lot and actually wrote some TI-85 code in notepad and tried saving as .exe and various other extensions to get it to work. I didn't have internet at home and the school's internet was rather new and I never really had access so I ended up buying a 'make your own game' software out of an ad in a PC magazine.
At some point, things became less magic, but it took many hours and plenty of thought. I can understand why most people don't understand what I do.
I write react components and sit in a chat room all day. I think most people could understand what I do
@DanielAllenLangdon Guys, I'm an older programmer. If I was to start solving this problem I'd probably try to find a way to load and display a PDF in a div using AJAX, but there's probably some library or package or something that does this.. because it would be a common thing that people would want to do, right?
20:28
@ndugger What's a "riyact"?
understand how I do what I do, maybe
You'd think, but Google is not finding me what I want.
listen here
FWIW, my client is standardized on IE10, so even though it's IE, at least it's just one browser I have to target.
20:30
@DanielAllenLangdon I'm thinking you'd probably get a better answer posting a standard SOF question than asking on a chat room
perhaps so.
This has been a thorn in my side.
So you're an older programmer. What, are you 25 or something? :-)
@SomeGuy I'm wondering how long it'll take before we get to monads ;)
you kid, but it's true.
@BartekBanachewicz This sounds like something you're going to enjoy a fair bit :D
20:31
@DanielAllenLangdon Let's a have a little fun. Here's a hint. My first computer was a TRS Model III
@DanielAllenLangdon generally this should be the default behaviour IIRC
I think the average age in the chats is like 24
oldest is mid 40's
youngest is claiming to be over 13
I was going to ask ages when I first got here but thought that might be rude
@rlemon Damn. That's young
I'm going to guess 51, @Earth2Eddie
@Earth2Eddie demanding ages is, asking I don't see a problem with.
My first PC was a 486 with 2 MB RAM. Want to guess my age?
@SomeGuy I guess once you reach that level you can showcase way more interesting examples
people who care won't answer
@DanielAllenLangdon you're older than me and my first PC was a 286
poof
20:33
47. Luckily, I could pass for 30. People can never beleive my age. Also, I don't live in Silicon Valley so I don't need plastic surgery to work at a tech company :)
I'll be 35 next month.
Daniel.. mid 30s?
I'm using my first PC right now
I'll be 32 in sept
ehh I registered on SOF when I was 13, and I had been lurking for years before that
20:33
I turned 26 a few days ago
do anything fun?
my first pc was a compaq =x
I Googled and saw that the TRS Model III came out in 1980, about 15 years before I had my first computer and home, and thought that should be about the difference between your age and mine.
The oldest guy in the lounge was like 50-ish and we actually met in Berlin
Off to ask my question on SO.
20:34
well if Eddie is 47, I think he's the oldest here
Deny's was the oldest
iirc he's like 43?
I started programming around 9. And this was 1980 when no kid was doing that. Only "wierdos". All the other kids were outside :)
what about 007
I knew a 90 year old on Project Euler way back when
Also Jerry might be 300 hundred years old for all I know because he just knows so much stuff I don't know if you could learn it all in one lifetime
I think I was 13 then
20:35
I started "programming" when I was 8 or 9, but that means I poked around in qbasic and was mostly a script kiddie
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's common for kids to learn programming now
@DanielAllenLangdon viewerjs.org ?
eh, I wouldn't say common
@rlemon so a funny thing to check would be how many people here already have "senior" in their job title ;)
more than the past, but still not common.
20:36
@DanielAllenLangdon Good luck
@rlemon what do you mean by "past"?
I started "programming" when I learnt that you could program most anything in the BASIC language on my TI-85.
Those were the days.
@BartekBanachewicz 20 years ago
I could program it to play HangMan!
when I was a kid
20:36
right now literally every single kid in Poland has to do some programming around middle school
Did you guys use basic with line numbers? :) remember skipping lines by 10s in case you had to cram extras lines in between haha
that was true when I was in middle school already
they do some here as well. but my nieces and nephews know about as much programming as they do Frensh
which is, enough to pass the course
@Earth2Eddie yeah, but I did that way after I learned C++
Have any of you touched assembly language? :)
scary stuff down there
20:38
Yup. Most of my beginnings was in Turbo Pascal, and assembly was really easy there
my school had two programming related courses. CE and CS, in CS we learned basic, html, vb, and a bit of c++
in CE we learned asm, and how to read hex
but had to code most of everything in qbasic :/
I wrote a top down tank shooting game with bouncy wall bullets and it ran so slow... I tried deleting all of the blank spaces to make it run faster and only ruined my code, it was no longer nicely formatted by line, yup times were tough before google
Imagine looking at the assembly for the Google Duplex app that made that phone call reservation the other day :)
@TravisWhite I hear and raise you this: before I could write double-buffered rendering, I made a game that displayed immediately on the lower part of the screen, because that's where the flicker was less noticeable
the tricky thing is that the code doesn't do anything unless you spend years training it
20:40
@BartekBanachewicz :) nice
I did some assembly in college. It wasn't as daunting as I thought it was when I went in. It reminded me of TI-85 code with special codes for each function/action/whatever they are
I remember in high school (late 80's
) coming up with some decent ideas for making an AI.. and it involved watching people talk on BBS and "training".. I realized that I wouldn't understand the evolved code, so I thought - "what's the point?" :)
Years ago I realized that in a simplistic way that's kind of what Google is doing. Watching billions of interactions, searches etc
I made a crappy scorched earth clone for my ap computer science class when I was a senior. It used the alegra or alegro video library/dos. Wished I backed up code when I was younger
in Lounge<C++>, May 7 '16 at 7:48, by Bartek Banachewicz
I coded on a 80x180 sony ericsson 2.4" screen
in Lounge<C++>, May 7 '16 at 7:49, by Bartek Banachewicz
actually also played MUD on that once I got the ssh client
if we're sharing old weird stories ;)
I made a worms clone, but it like half worked.
VB4?
20:43
I coded VBA with a variable-width font
I was more into engineering in HS than development
I played pinball on my granddad computer on windows 98
So, what are you guys career plans when you get older? Project management?
Actually, let me rephrase my question. Even if it uses an external app to open the PDF, can I make it so that IE will open a PDF file without the user having to make a selection?
20:44
@Earth2Eddie farming
I loved worms. Haven't played it in like 10 years. I should get it to play with the fam
@rlemon That sounds nice right now
@Earth2Eddie, I don't really know. I'm doing well now. Maybe I'll become an "architect" or a "director". Most of my clients seem to appreciate well what I do. Sometimes, I think I might like to hire other consultants to do bigger projects.
Maybe I'll have a midlife crisis and decide I need to do something entirely new. Who knows!
ahh, Allegro still exists, liballeg.org
My last job was team lead for a team of Java developers. The current is project manager, but the company is looking unstable.. wondering what my next move should be. Maybe product manager or business analyst
20:47
farming
@DanielAllenLangdon Yeah, I think I might be suffering from that particular ailment :)
I get the feeling you want to farm, @rlemon
We could all start a farm?
I'm very much a work-to-live sort of person. I get to work from home on my current gig, so I'm not looking to get a high-powered job where I'm at the office 50 hours a week.
@SomeGuy farming and wood working are my retirement plan
20:48
Who knows, in a few years people might need food more that programs?
I'm actually feeling a bit burnt with all the Javascript library wars.
That sounds very pleasant
All the reinventing the wheel.
not large scale farming. but a relaxing 2-3 hours a day kinda farm
@rlemon "Relaxing farming" ?
20:49
I really liked AngularJS when I first used it, and then they decided it wasn't good enough, so they made Angular 2, and then people didn't like they, so they made React and Vue and Aurelia and a bunch of other stuff. And then Angular 2 is so easy, you just have to do HTML compilation and set up TypeScript and NPM and all that other fun stuff.
automated farm? automate some hydroponics would be something I'd love to do
Even though I'm a project manager, the project/contract the small company I work for fell through so I'm doing some development and I'm having to learn alot of new things. I've been studying my azz off looking into React, Angular, Node
@DanielAllenLangdon progress isn't easy. React is leaps and bounds better than Angular, IMO.
@Earth2Eddie yes, it's a thing
farming is relaxing if you're not trying to feed 1000 people and make money doing it
aquaponics*
20:51
I'd seen that in my research, that people seem to like React better. I also played around with "Vue" which I liked. Just not sure which of things is going to be popular/gone in a few years
@TravisWhite I also wanna take another stab at that this summer
last summer I tried, but I tried indoors and fucking gnats took over
this summer I'll hook something to the pond
@rlemon Ahhh, fungus gnats?
/soil gnats
React - Facebook and Angular - Google (older), right?
they go by a few names
20:52
Vue = newest
LOVED the constant water
(but maintained by one dude)
yeah, I think that is what I mean, what was temperature like? Medium/water temperature plays a big role with that.
As long as we're talking about food, I may as well tell you guys that I went vegan a while back and lost 15 lbs.
Happy about that!
Hey rlemon, where in Ont are you? My wife's originally from there
20:54
I need to clean our pond, should've done it by now. Kind of dread it :-\
@rlemon test.. ah looks like ats work
@Earth2Eddie yeah Vue is newest of those but I haven't had any experience with it. I do enjoy React though
@Earth2Eddie KW
cool.. she's from London
I have a friend in KW
cool city
yea, it's okay. getting bigger pretty fast
I don't like people
but the benefit of that is my house is worth a lot
which is nice
20:57
Do people commute to T from there?
and to here from T
we're one of the fastest growing cities with a lot of money and jobs
housing market sky rocketed over the past three years
Yeah, I've had my eye on KW for a while. I think years ago I heard that Microsoft has a permanent presence at the university and sometimes sucks up the entire graduating CS class :)
MS, Google, formerly RIM, bunch of other smaller players
You'll often see people's resume's that say "U of W" and then very next item "Microsoft, Seattle
UofW, Laurier, Conestoga
21:00
How's RIM doing these days
they never were in trouble, just less profitable.
so before they lost money, they scaled back
the world saw it as failure
!!afk
is there a css way to get rid of the space introduced by a new line in html when dealing with inline-block elements?
guess i can just omit the closing tags
i don't like that solution
@KevinB What do you mean by a new line.. a <br>?
<ul>
  <li>foo</li><!-- this newline >>> -->
  <li>bar</li>
</ul>
a newline between two inline-block elements results in a space between the two elements
uRGH!
I hate that.
Same thing with <textarea>
21:15
setting a font-size of 0 to the ul, omitting the closing li, or negative margins, all fix it
It breaks my indentation :'-(
the least evil imo is font-size 0
So if you made the margins and borders in CSS 0, the edge wouldn't be right up against the text?
it's not a margin
yea, margins are already zero
Other than the div that these sit in, don't the <ul>s and <li>s have margins?
21:17
0
Q: How to make IE open a PDF with a single click?

Daniel Allen LangdonI'm creating a web page with a link to a PDF file. I have been asked to set up the link so that the user can click the link once and see the PDF. Here's what I've tried so far: One way is to simply put <a href="XXX.pdf" target="_self">PDF</a> in the HTML The other is to make the link trigger ...

margins are explicitly set to 0 for both the ul and it's li's
if you set font-size zero on the ul, it fixes it. Removing the closing li tags also fix it
setting the font-size to zero means you have to set the fontsize of the li to something specific
so it won't be based on the content it's contained in
that doesn't seem right
if you comment out the newline, that fixes it too
So, it looks like there's a space (" ") after the li>foo</li>?
21:20
there's two in fact
because i use spaces instead of tabs
:)
none of these problems happen with flexbox
I just did it in jsfiddle and I think I see what you mean. You mean the two spaces that it puts in front of the li's. I thought you meant after
yeah, no, the two before
because it's being displayed inline, it takes all of the spaces into account as it should.
ugh.. I seem to remember something about fixing this from years ago.. it's basically indenting by default
well, i mean, yeah, i could just remove all of the newlines and spaces
but nah
@ndugger You can grab it off import.meta.dirname I think or at least import.meta.url
21:26
i'd switch to flexbox before resorting to that
@KevinB * { word-spacing: 0; }
gonna just use flexbox
will make transitioning this to mobile easier anyway
(1) So, I have a question related to the age discussion we were having earlier and how the bulk of people here are in their 20s. My boss (VP) has told me that I should be just as knowledgeable about the languages as the 20 year old developers on my team. (She comes to code reviews and appears to be able to program any coder under that table, it's irritating).
(2) Anyway, if that's the case in the industry at large, how come you don't see more 30/40/50 year old software project managers asking questions on forums like this?
i mean... i think it's more important to be able to understand code, moreso than being able to write in any language without ever referring to docs.
Something doesn't seem to add up
I know.. with two toddlers and doing the management part of the job there's no way to keep up with all of the new languages, platforms, libraries, etc
(in detail)
21:41
for example, i don't know any language other than javascript and coldfusion at a professional level. however, I find it rather easy to open up a project in another language and be able to figure out what's going on and how to solve problems.
once you know how to solve problems... there isn't much point in asking on SO
by the time you've provided all of the information you have, you've solved the problem
with the exception of things like typos or logic failures
i'm 30
@KevinB make sure you have your exit strategy ready for your 30s and 40s, trust me Kevin :)
@KevinB something something damn millennials
haha :)
I wasn't going to go there
meh, that's not really a concern here
What I don't understand is, with computers becoming more and more ingrained in everyone's lives, there's going to be an ever increasing need for software developers and yet you still see devs mainly in their 20s. So where are all of these extra 20 year olds coming from?
21:48
we've had new devs from time to time, but they always end up moving on to get paid more
they're leaving the retail job market
@KevinB Are there that many people leaving the retail job market, getting CS degrees and becoming developers?
not sure about the cs degree part, i don't have one, and don't believe it's necessary to have a good career in software/web dev
Gotcha
BTW at some point is the moderator (I believe it's Caprica?) going to come in here and tell me to get back on topic? :)
but yea, i think people are in general trying to get better paying jobs. as always
cap is a bot, and i'm a room owner, :p
off topic discussion is fine here, as long as it's civil and not flag bait
I wondered that. It immediately welcomed me to the room, but then later appeared to answer someone's question. So, I thought Caprica was a user with a script that just welcomes people
hence @AndrasDeak "omg she's sentient" :)
21:54
Caprica is so good at the Turing test that she routinely pretends to be a bot
I wonder why Fox News and MSNBC don't have valid SSL, wow so many big sites don't have one, ESPN, hmmmm
I definitely think it's valuable to at least have some college, as a sort of introduction to the world after highschool, but with the way college is here in the states past the community college level, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. guess it depends on what kind of job you want at the end of the day
At the university I went to (this was mid 90s) a lot of people only did the BS for computer science. A few hard core (mainly international students) hung in there for the MS and PHDs
I love it how BS has started to mean a degree
21:56
@TravisWhite not sure, what do you think?
@AndrasDeak :)
like, if you're looking to work for some big business, google/facebook etc, and want to move up the ranks there, yeah, absolutely, spend the money
Trying to think if it could be an issue. Like, MITM attack, for popular sites. A lot of users use same email/pw across sites (even though you shouldn't), seems like a lot of security lost for such relatively easy fix for big well funded companies?
i rather a lower profile, a slower pace
Will somebody check msnbc.com for me or espn.com and see if you get secure/ssl. Can confirm it isn't a local issue?
if i weren't at the office, rather not browse much here, this chat is distracting enough :p
22:01
@TravisWhite How do I check?
visit it in browser and see if you get a green 'Secure' in address bar
should I try msnbc.com?
yes, thanks
oops.. that didn't render correctly https : // msnbc.com
Don't see green secure
ahh, didn't redirect you but still didn't work because ssl isn't valid
thanks, confirms it isn't just me
22:10
why isn't it valid?
if it's just mixxed-resources, that's kinda understandable for a news site
still fixable
just like this chat doesn't get the green secure badge
but it does have a valid cert
I'm seeing this chat Secure, because high traffic news sites that offer account login, a lot of people use same email/pw, could easily spoof a popular news site and wait for somebody's data to come in if you setup an open wifi spot
i guess the chat comes in and out of secure
depending on whether or not someone has posted a not secure image while you've been here
(which is probably the most common way sites lose the green badge)
they'll have a valid cert, but somewhere along the line an image/script/stylesheet is embedded from a non-https domain.
I just don't see why such a popular site wouldn't have a valid ssl, man in the middle attacks are as old as the internet
are you sure it doesn't?
click the (i) to the left of the url, does the certificate say valid?
he's right
the ssl certificate is not fully secure
22:16
if they don't take the effort make sure the badge shows, then the security measure is useless as people won't notice either way that it isn't secure, says 'this site is not secure'
sure, from an optics standpoint
but that doesn't necessarily mean it's vulnerable
Lets say I set up a copy of today's headlines on a static webserver and go to local restaurant and share my wifi, with special dns entry overriding theirs so that my site is delivered to them instead of the legit site, now they see that it isn't secure, because no green badge, but they are used to it not being secure, so they just enter their login/pw and i display an 'error please try again later' message, and just collect data
(this requires users to connect to my wifi connection, of course, not the restaurant's)
i mean... over unsecured wifi... the sky is the limit
that also requires users to actually notice that instead of green, it's just not green.
True, but a local compromised isp could redirect legit traffic unknowingly to more sophisticated hackers
adn if the only thing not protected in that case is an image... what are you going to do?
in the case of SO Chat, the only reason it loses it's green badge is because insecure images are being displayed from i.stack.imgur.com
you can't inject javascript into the page with an image, you cant read secure cookies, all you can really do is display a different image and gather information like useragent/ip
22:25
Well, I won't argue with you about the details/possibilities/lack thereof. Seems lazy/cheap on the companies. They could fix it if security was a priority.
@Earth2Eddie, I feel silly. My PDF was being saved as an attachment because my web server was sending it a header telling it to do so! Once I removed this, everything just worked.
you don't know the circumstances they're dealing with. it very well could simply be a calculated risk.
@DanielAllenLangdon Glad you figured it out
@DanielAllenLangdon What header?
application/octet-stream?
I was previously here talking about making IE display a PDF without prompting the user to download it.
22:31
Yeah, I was around :P
Just wondering what the solution turned out to be specifically
2 + 2

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