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7:11 PM
I think I got it
I think we should go to meta
and post asking about it, asking for where the community stands on this issue of what or what isn't acceptable.
And we should have better tools
 
7:24 PM
which issue is this, now? the same one or a new one
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum good idea. By comming out first with this, we are reducing the impact of them telling us that
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum No. The community does not decide what's acceptable and what's not, we do. If the community disagrees, they go elsewhere. If the site disagrees, we go elsewhere
 
@Zirak we don't have any strong opinions on this though.
The question is how to deal with a user who barges in and demands we change our conduct
 
We do need better tools, but I don't thing we're in the wrong
 
Not whether or not our conduct is OK
 
7:25 PM
@Zirak do we, though?
our standard is based on us, as the community, establishing a standard
 
hmm you are right though
 
@ssube We're the community, not meta.stackoverflow
 
Well, having a "rules" screen shown to the user the first time they join a room in a while would be a good start
 
thats a good idea
make em' accept them
 
which rules screen
 
7:26 PM
@Zirak for better or worse, we aren't independent of them
 
Tagging new users in a clear way so regulars are aware they're new would also be a good start
 
@KevinB probably a new integrated SO rules page that ROs would moderate?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I think having them in the rules would help
 
as in Room rules
 
@KamilSolecki per-room wikis seem like a big ask
 
7:27 PM
are they though?
 
Not room rules, basically what CONTRIBUTING.md would be in a GH repo shown when they first join - and ROs made aware (by a different color maybe) that it's the user's first time in the room.
 
SO doesn't want to maintain chat in the first place
 
The end is neigh. (like a horse)
@ssube exactly
 
Making a post like "we have a new users problem lately, people are coming in barging, expecting X and getting Y, we need A, B and C to deal with the problem"
 
@ssube while it has taken them years - SO has given us almost every feature we've asked for.
 
7:28 PM
asking them to add Documentation (which already failed once) to chat seems doomed
 
We asked for kicks - they gave us kicks, we asked to be notified by kicks - they gave us notifications for kicks
Chat is certainly not a priority but it's a maintained part of the system
 
one wonders how we survived over 8 years without any of this..
 
while they might not really care for chat I believe they do realize that a lot of off site problems are solved here
 
Not documentation - just a message stating what the rules CONTRIBUTING guidelines are, that people are expected to lurk, that calling out content is file but be willing to discuss it respectfully, etc
 
There's already a banner thing when you're not logged in, something similar could be displayed over first-time joiners
 
7:29 PM
@Loktar SO was less popular :P
 
@Zirak right, exactly
@Loktar to be fair the room was not friendly when I joined, I didn't mind that because being welcoming wasn't on my "stuff to look for in a chat" list.
 
@Zirak that's a great idea
 
eh, i don't think going to meta and complaining "get off my lawn" would go over too well.
 
@Loktar have we really? since I've been here, this has been at least annual. It might be speeding up
 
@Loktar I think it was Shog who showed us an activity chart and we were spiking
 
7:30 PM
@real_ate @StackOverflow I'm so sorry you had this experience. I used to be an active member of this community (JS chat mod) but I don't use #stackoverflow often now. Mostly because of you just experienced - the hostility which is called "their culture". I hate SO for what it have become. cc: @MateiCopot
you mean this? when was he ever an RO
 
@Zirak thats exactly what I was thinking, with contents editable by room owners
 
@Zirak I reposted it in GH
 
and someone who hasnt' been in a chatroom in over a year and a half really has a lot to say
 
@rlemon Who the fuck is that
 
@rlemon Mitzy?
 
7:30 PM
and this topic in particular would certainly have a lot of people agreeing that it doesn't belong, even if we feel it isn't problematic.
 
@rlemon heh... yeah I don't remember that person every being an RO
 
some guy who says he was an RO here, I remember the user, don't think he was ever RO
 
@rlemon Did I say he was an RO? Also, he was an RO, I'm pretty sure
oh, he said he was an RO
again, I think he was
 
@towc Do you remember his nick? Can you link to his profile? I don't have the faintest recollection of him
 
yeah neither do I..
and I'm one of the oldest members here... In age and length of time on the chat hur hur
 
7:31 PM
lmao
 
Loke and I have been RO for like 5 years+
 
yes, I recall the user
he did used to chat here, but not often, and I never remember him being an RO
 
I do think we could have responded to it better, for example, asking why or how it isn't welcoming and what we do about it rather than getting defensive
 
@rlemon yeah We've been here 7 and 8 years respectively iirc
 
7:32 PM
@rlemon ditto
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum J'accuse
 
ofc it was @BenjaminGruenbaum
 
lmao, I totally forgot that
 
😋
 
heh interesting....
 
benji the giver and taker
 
so he was RO for a handful of months 4 and a half years ago
so relevant.
 
I talked to him directly 9 times.
 
We can totally shame him on twitter with the shit he posted here, I'd like to avoid that but he wasn't too subtle
Not that I think we should, but I don't appreciate people taking cheap shots at us
 
7:34 PM
yea I'm not participating back on Twitter, but I think it's 100% fair game that we can point out the problems and posts considering they're talking about us
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum for amazing trolling for the past, we have to vote to either (1) dis-owner you (2) mod you
 
joining in on twitter will just make things worse
nothing else can happen there
 
@rlemon yeah same I've chose not to approach it on Twitter, yet.
 
there's no barrier with twitter
 
Nothing good ever came out of twitter
4
 
7:35 PM
you can't defend yourself
 
idk looking at my interactions with Miszy they don't seem like they were bad or anything though.
 
@Zirak which is why I don't have twitter, so toxic
 
wonder what they disliked in particular about the chat?
 
@KevinB and it's designed so you can't complete a thought
you can't explain yourself, so the next person has to get angry
 
@KevinB I've come to the conclusion that this chat gets way too many trolls and entitled fucks to try to figure out which ones are the bad guys, and which ones are the people who don't know how to behave
 
7:35 PM
vs facebook, where you wax poetic about yourself, and they have to approve of you
 
if you expect to feel welcome, don't act like a dick
 
@towc There are no good guys
 
one gives you the up, one brings you back down
 
@Loktar here's the aglorithm for what he did 1) find a bandwagon 2) get on said bandwagon. He's organizing meetups/conferences - guess that's why
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum bleh 😒 that's unfortunate
 
7:36 PM
@towc that's an interesting conclusion
 
You know, we help a lot of people here
 
btw, I actually like the guy
I mean, not sure after today
but he seemed reasonable
 
eh I mean it's easy to take cheap shots anyway
 
he taught me a lot of things and was kinda patient
 
lots of people want to see this place burn down (the chat, even this room in particular).
 
7:37 PM
any reason he directly mentioned you though?
 
to ensure the message gets here?
 
Don't remember who linked that, but this conversation really made me sad. Is that how people perceive technical conversation?
 
@Loktar just one more edit :D
here we go :D
 
added one more just for you <3
 
@KamilSolecki that's what I contacted him about. He said I was part of the problem
 
7:38 PM
@Loktar Who? Aside from the serious bad trolls, when did we earn enemies?
 
@Zirak it's how a certain group does, yes :?
 
@towc You're certainly part of a problem
 
@Zirak im not sure she even is a coder after reading that lol
 
> The words "exactly" and especially "clearly" are warning signs in this context.
 
@Zirak I can't argue against that
 
7:38 PM
Oh fuck off
 
people with 100k rep are the problem /s
 
@Zirak I imagine many entitled users who have came asked questions or spammed the room and not received help.
> Those guys suck
 
@Zirak a? one?
 
I just love the red pills which have been flowing freely, I must say.
 
7:39 PM
We can name the room something esoteric
 
@KamilSolecki But we do know she's an ethical vegan
 
wish @tereško was paying attention and chatting about the subject at hand
 
Or rename to ECMAScript so less noobs came
+ then oracle can't sue us
 
@BenFortune obviously you aren't familiar with exactly what agression is
 
7:40 PM
I'm sure he's aware, probably just too busy for us.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, something people will either never use or never seek help with. Like Haskell.
 
@Loktar don't make it worse
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum let's
 
we don't need to call in trolls to counter their trolls
 
@Loktar you mean "intersectional veganism" ?
 
7:40 PM
@ssube I live for it
 
@tereško lmao wtf?
I hadn't heard of this
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum why did they warn about suing in the first place? Do you have a link?
 
> It's warning signs for the user's deteriorating will to answer questions
 
@Loktar oh, you innocent soul
 
@tereško Don't see him that way, he watches BBC
You know what that means
 
7:41 PM
@Zirak ohhh you....
 
@KamilSolecki that's just because they have a copyright of JavaScript - they're not actually suing anyone over it
 
I miss connorspiracy
 
That was the greatest night in chat, ever
 
7:42 PM
new user banner is a great idea though @Zirak @BenjaminGruenbaum +1
 
@Zirak oh snap, I had no idea he enjoys this type of videos
 
maybe you all should ping the mods and rename the channel to ecmascript
 
so, I open incognito mode on chrome, notice I'm logged in to twitter, so I log out, and it logs me out on regular chrome as well
welp
 
they want welcoming? how about we Android it again and lock the room for invite only.
 
I think we should
 
7:42 PM
that'll be welcoming
 
just to spite them
 
and also set it as the default tag for the synonyms
 
@rlemon it might be time for that
we are popular enough
 
^
 
like, this room isn't even about javascript anymore. Maybe we should embrace that
 
7:43 PM
and attached to a low-rep tag
 
Thats not a terrible idea, even temporarily
 
@towc maybe they store login in localstorage
 
"The Ecma Boyz" (yes, bad gender ratio)
 
@towc no, this room is about javascript.
we just have other common interests
 
We should become the JavaScript Lounge
 
7:44 PM
right, I mean during the week you see TS questions or JS discussions happening in addition to side convos all the time.
 
@rlemon One of which is, apparently, blatant prostitution
 
@Zirak news articles about dating services, but...
potato potato
 
@rlemon ok, I should have said "specifically"
 
still
 
my suggestion is to get @MadaraUchiha to sign off on setting up as the default/overriding synonym for
 
7:44 PM
@ssube Potato? I hardly even, err, yeah
 
heh remember there was that ecmascript room for a bit?
 
and I wasn't invited >:(
 
@Loktar Greg's troll room?
 
Safari sucks
 
@Loktar lol remember when it died?
 
7:45 PM
LOL I do remember
 
member
 
I still chuckle to this day
 
I got an invite link, I was cool
 
all of stackoverflow starting to call it "ecmascript" might actually get noticed by the fucks at Oracle
 
@towc do you want to kick anybody having a discussion that doesnt concern javascript and stop talking about any other thing really? At least thats what I take out from your message
3
we aint help robots
 
7:46 PM
@KamilSolecki gosh no
I was saying the opposite
 
then @towc would never be able to discuss things!
 
I mean where would you rant :P
 
btw @jAndy I wanted to thank you, I sometimes tell people about how you tried to troll me with one of your nice links around 5 years ago and the repercussions of that
 
I can't imagine he would want that lol
 
we should make it very clear this room isn't only for javascript
 
7:46 PM
@towc No JavaScript?
 
how can Safaris rendering engine be so slow concerning css, transitions etc. compared to chrome
 
@towc its in the rules
 
we found each other because javascript, but it's perfectly fine for us to discuss other stuff
 
@towc it is clear that there will be off topic discussion if anyone clicks the links that are presented in the room description or on their first message
 
we are literally discussing now how to get this to people more directly
 
7:46 PM
@Zirak you're welcome buddy
 
and people shouldn't be offended by the fact we're not discussing javascript
 
eh, no, this room is only for javascript. it's just that, it's Also a chat room, with people in it, who talk about stuff.
 
this has all already been setup
 
@jAndy safari is the IE6 of the web now..
 
@towc "So how did you two meet?" "javascript"
 
7:47 PM
I hate it as well.
 
@jAndy 2.9
 
@towc communism shouldnt be a thing
same type of logic
 
wait wut
 
@Zirak I mean that's how @Jhawins got a job!
 
how did we get to this
 
7:47 PM
I still can't get it, it's both webkit for gods sake
 
@Loktar That's how @copy and @BadgerCat almost invited me to the Bahamas but then changed their mind :(
 
I still remember early convos with @towc and him saying he would write a working shooter in canvas in a day
er in an hour...
but! He did do it within a few hours
so long ago...
 
@Zirak dude Im buying tickets we going to bahamas
 
@Zirak hah
 
I mean, I was an unintentional troll
 
7:48 PM
@towc meh, you at least for real tried :p
 
or rather, someone with his head up his ass
 
and you've came craaazy far since then on the technical side
 
but there will be people like that always
@towc you cannot automagically expect people to think alike. It doesnt work like that in the real world
 
writing things in X hours is always fun
some of my best code has come from doing that
 
I actually don't see any reason why the combined GREATNESS and MINDPOWER of the room regulars was unable to create some "awesome web project" to make us all LIVE on the Bahamas
 
7:49 PM
I once wrote a bug in seconds. checkmate room
 
@KamilSolecki which is why things should be made clearer for them
my suggestion was to change the room title
if that wasn't clear
 
@ssube ie forcing yourself to make it on time?
 
that's where I was going with that
 
idk it's just sad when people see a few messages and then label the room based on that..
there is so much activity here.
 
I don't like to brag, but I wrote a really good bug yesterday. I still haven't found it.
 
7:49 PM
LOTS of people have been helped for sure, and it's been fun helping people too.
 
My bugs write themselves
 
@towc sure, but that started the discussion in the first place, we were discussing how :P
 
@KamilSolecki well, don't pick on me then
 
@KamilSolecki more like "I'm going to write X this weekend" and then stopping come sunday night
 
@Loktar it's even sadder when they've been framed inappropriately and the bias and unwelcome they complain about is not ironically used to attack the community .
 
7:50 PM
oh
 
I get way more working code written than if I take a year of thinking about it every weekend
 
does it actually work
wow
im surprised
Ill try
 
@jAndy That time was spent 3d printing, playing Terraria or Rimworld, or randomly complaining
 
it's the idea behind a hackathon
 
@CapricaSix remind me to write stuff this year
 
7:50 PM
...and... losing games
 
come up with an idea, flesh it out a little bit, and then just slam out a bunch of code
 
@jAndy you've lost many a THE GAME here for sure.
 
1 message moved to Trash can
 
:42316645 that's not terribly funny
 
7:51 PM
@towc this is not a time
 
damnit. ok
 
image what kind of company and/or projects we could have created and accomplished within the last, let's say, 5 years, if we would have started the stackoverflow-js-room-inc.
sigh
 
@jAndy exactly 0
 
:P
 
we would've spent the entire time debating how to set them up on github
 
7:51 PM
@jAndy imagine how buff we all could have gotten as well
 
@jAndy Imagine the lawsuits
 
Lol
 
and writing and editing and logoing a readme
 
er wait.. you did nm :p
 
@jAndy WITH THAT NAME?!
 
7:52 PM
I remember pre transformation @jAndy!!!
 
hey, I might need to make a company soon for taxes and stuff
 
@ssube 18 months deciding a style guide
 
I can call it room17
 
and then we can all jump on the train
 
7:52 PM
@rlemon 2 tabs or I'm out
 
gross, 4 space
 
@towc enjoy paperwork
 
I'll make it head right off a cliff
 
1 space*
 
yea @Loktar we would have our office on the Bahamas I was given drill instructions every day for fitness and food every day for all employees
 
7:52 PM
@ssube You'd start doing it in TS, and I'd do it in real burly JS, we'd hate each other soooo muuuch
 
I vote for 17 space indentation
 
if( condition)
{
 
exercising with jAndy on the beach
 
@jAndy haha
 
I heckin love me some paperwork. Stayed till 18:30 on friday due to closing off the month
 
7:53 PM
@KamilSolecki I heard it's not too bad in slovakia. I'll have to spend hours once a year figuring out taxes, but hey
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum in solidarity
 
@rlemon That caused physical pain
 
if ( condition )
{
 
actually yes, can we rename the room to "Room 17" effective immediately?
 
@towc once a month*
 
7:53 PM
if( condition ) {
 
@KamilSolecki maybe it's different in slovakia?
 
as a more serious trademark question, should we change the github org name?
 
I don't know why everyone hates the no space after if, but I enjoy it
 
or do you do something small-ish once a month, and biggish once a year?
 
7:53 PM
well yes
 
also you have employees and stuff. I'd just use it as a proxy for contracting as a dev
 
We can forbid arrow functions and destructuring
 
@rlemon I got tired of the extra spacing after years of C
 
@Zirak noice
 
7:54 PM
iF(cOnDiTiOn) {
 
lol that deprecation message
> You were not supposed to use this
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Exactly two statements per line. No more, no less.
 
@towc if you wanted to make people slightly uncomfortable, you could call it "room jailbait"
 
jabaited
 
7:55 PM
@tereško weren't you an owner here at one point?
 
after careful consideration, I'm rejecting both of your suggestions.
 
I swear you were..
 
@Loktar I have not been a "regular" for many years now, besides, I am one of those degenerate php developers
 
@Zirak can we require copyright at the top of every file?
 
7:55 PM
I have found the most amazing thing in the whole world
and its spicy paprikas filled with goat cheese
 
@Loktar he was
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Top of every file? At the top of every function
 
I have a store that makes them and its just sooooo goood
 
@Zirak make it a decorator
@tm
function foo() {
 
why not end of every line? The contents of a function might be used out of context
 
7:56 PM
@tereško You were there when I joined the php room for the first time, my first times in chat
 
ok I thought so, now just thinking of older owners since apparently I've forgotten some..
 
@KamilSolecki paprikas?
 
peppers
 
paprika is smoked+ground bell pepper here
 
then yes, peppers
 
7:57 PM
@KamilSolecki I'm eating stuffed peppers with paprika cream cheese
 
ah, ok
 
@Zirak that must have been an .. emm .. scarring experience
 
@BenFortune YES THATS IT
 
I make red bell peppers, full of cous cous, lamb, and goat cheese
 
7:57 PM
speaking of spices, I picked up some bulk cayenne at the bulk barn. shit had me sneezing for like 3 days
 
@tereško Made me the smiley face I am today
 
although mine have different kind of cheese
but its literally the best thing
 
You were mad at me when I said I learned things from the Zend Certification Guide
Good times
 
@rlemon well don't sniff your shit then alright?
 
const foo = () => {;;;//copyright zirak @ 2018
;;console.log(1);;;;;;//copyright zirak @ 2018
};;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;//copyright zirak @ 2018
 
7:57 PM
@Zirak your avatar reminds me of a rave sticker on my monitor
 
how do people cook with cayenne pepper? it's like nose assault
 
I think I figured out how to JS
 
@ssube aaww
 
271
Q: Does Stack Exchange really want to conflate newbies with women/people of color?

Nicol BolasThe Stack Overflow Isn’t Very Welcoming blog post says: Too many people experience Stack Overflow as a hostile or elitist place, especially newer coders, women, people of color, and others in marginalized groups. There have been accusations of elitism against SO since time immemorial. Basic...

 
@towc beautiful
 
7:58 PM
 
@rlemon have you ever boiled vinegar
 
I got one of those stickers the first year I went
 
I've boiled vinegar, never drank it
 
in miniature, your avatar is really close
 
shit
 
7:58 PM
@tereško sshhh, it's ok
 
@rlemon it produces a throatchoking vapor
 
I was trying to insert a doctor who gif
 
makes me cough so hard everytime
 
with "I'm so sorry"
 
but the best spicy sauces that are asian like are vinegar based
 
7:59 PM
yeah clicking the image worked fine
 
@KamilSolecki you can also pickle things in a few minutes by boiling the vinegar
 
@KamilSolecki not to be confused with throatchoking vap0r, which is entirely different
 
it's good for things that would break down if you pickled them overnight
 

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