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17:00
doesn't say why he killed them
✋ howgh
o/
@Zirak hey, no worries. we got it sorted.
@Mosho Yeah, the 'reason' I mentioned is based on pure rumor and conjecture.
but I think a kid who flunked university and lies to their overbearing parents then hiring people to kill them is a little more.... exotic
17:03
Any ideas?
your question is weird.
i.e. I don't understand it
please send me a non-wednesday related meme
okay, this is weird. I was trying to solve this latex2png.com/output//… but couldn't find out any actual solution to it, it stays indeterministic even if I rationalise the terms...
or is the problem wrong :/
that is not a very good meme
17:07
@rlemon nah it's easy :D... an example, you press a button, and then a prompt is open to download a PDF file... something similar happens but with a JSON file, as this mean nothing to the user, I want to catch this file and read it
that meme is disturbing. thanks
You guys are probably better in english than I am: how would you call a function that is used to "start/stop" something? I could do like: startstopTheData(dataid, start_bool)
so you just want to know if a file contents is valid json?
or if the file has a .json extension?
@paul23 toggle
toggle also seems to indicate it "always changes" (so shouldn't have a second argument) right?
no
you can force a toggle direction
17:09
kinda
What does this function really do?
I mean, it kinda does. yes you are right, but it isn't uncommon for a force argument in toggle.
@Luggage start/stop a runner that keeps (a part of) two databases in sync.
Well I'll go for toggle: it's not like it actually matter much anyways
guys, should we change the room name before Oracle decides to try and take it down ?
17:11
@Mosho thanks, but I don't know who is triggering the request, this logic needs to be independent from the origin, only catching responses
did they buy JavaScript or something?
they trademarked it
JavaScript, not just Java?
Is java even a trademark?
17:12
most likely
from 1995? I'm not too worried.
the reddit post is someone who got a takedown notice from them recently.
If terms are "too well known" they typically can't be trademarked anymore though. I believe C(++) can't be trademarked.
@KESO it doesn't require you to know anything
@rlemon tbf: I find that really weird, everyone knows "what runs on the internet is javascript", so I wonder how much they can enforce people to call it ecmascript.
17:15
it's enforced when they make examples of a few people and word gets out that you could be sued by a bunch of lawyers who do this day to day
what you say about "too well known" might be true, but when you have Apple doing it to you because Oracle asked, how do you fight back without it costing you a pile of money?
@Mosho Okay, but how could it help me? onBeforeRequest is meant to that, before request, and I'm expecting the response, I don't see how this event can help me
room topic changed to JavaScript ™: Topic: JavaScript, ECMAScript. Read this: javascriptroom.github.io/rules. Before asking inform yourself on the XY problem goo.gl/taIqf | devdocs.io Documentation™ Helps. Room meta discussions: github.com/JavaScriptRoom/culture. How to format code in chat: sopython.com/wiki/… [ecmascript] [ecmascript-6] [javascript] [nodejs] [oracle]
@Luggage and that's how it is enforced.
@Zirak 10/10
17:16
@rlemon got you covered
nice
I think @Cereal posted this earlier and it got ignored
@KESO the response is the file
I saw something about a trademark this morning
9 hours ago, by Ben Fortune
http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=2416017&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType‌​=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch
ahh, Ben
17:16
Ben posted it first, iirc
danke
yea, all these cool cats get mixed up in my memory
:p np
Okay @Mosho, I will take a deep look, thanks
I am not a cool cat fyi
and I never confuse you :P
17:18
I just wish something like onResponse :D
i am more of a lukewarm lizard
@KESO you also have onReponseStarted and onCompleted
but you can't cancel the request, naturally
By just ignoring it? - If I created something and I'd get a takedown notice like *that* I'd just ignore it; I doubt it will hold in court, and what can they gain anyways when going to court? They (oracle/whoever) will lose face by making it a public court case; and if they lose the case too they have to repay all expenses made (also my expenses to defend myself).

If they win I'll have to change the naming, but what can they really claim?

So in the end, going to court would be a lose-lose for oracle, so they wouldn't do it anyways; which means one can ignore it.
@Mosho that exist?, can't find info
17:21
@paul23 well if you decide to go to court, expect them to draw it out until you go broke and just concede
that's how the big companies win
@paul23 You can't tell apple to not take down you app if they are doing so. You can't just refuse and say "no, I'll leave it up, thanks".
It's kinda their system.
with enough money and legal mumbojumbo you can draw a case like that out for years
@rlemon There's public defense for small companies right? Where the state will protect companies of less than 20 employers.
costing both sides enormous sums of money
oracle doesn't give a shit about that. they know they have more than you
@rlemon state protection.
17:23
@paul23 I don't even see what the problem is?
they'll get litigations where they want.
I shall not be using you as my lawyer. No offense.
how is oracle not in the right if they own the trademark?
can't the trademark become invalid because the name is so ubiquitous?
and it's valid, of course
17:24
Sorry @Mosho, this is for add-ons... not what I'm looking for
I seem to recall that happened in the past.
The state (at least the netherlands) provides always a lawyer if you (as a person or a small company) can't afford one. Since everyone has the right on equal defense, it's (here) part of the constitution. And has ever been since napoleon.
yeah, might be invalid
@rlemon like kleenex, xerox, band-aid
many food products
@paul23 yes but oracle would have litigations in like a small town in texas.
17:24
and those were more legit trademarks than JavaScript (from my perspective in 2018)
you don't get to choose the court, they're the ones making the claim.
it's all a legal game. and large companies have lawyers who are very good at it
I worked at a company that dealt with this in 2008
@rlemon uh, I apparently don't understand the US legal system. Because over here (in the netherlands) the ones who make the claim also dont' get to choose.
it was a shit show (and we lost)
the claim was that CMS was trademarked
which CMS? there are so many.
The state has decided what court specializes in what kind of cases: so that cases never take too long.
17:26
@paul23 do you know what litigations are?
anybody think that making a buffer from a string just to get the number of bytes the string contains is a terrible idea ?
@Luggage any CMS which deals with both content, and management.
it was total bs. like trademarking email.
@rlemon So a content management system which deals with both content and management?
@Zirak yup
@rlemon yes, but how can they choose where to go? - That's kind of alien here.
17:27
@paul23 This was an american company, having another american company take down an app citing, specifically, american legal codes. So.. in THIS case, what Netherlands does has no bearing. Even if it's better.
if they take legal action in X location, that's likely where it will be decided.
@Rooster you have functions on the string for that
but even if the trademark isn't defensible
it's still there
!!> "💩".length
@rlemon 2
17:28
and it's within oracle's right to try and enforce it
noice.
@Luggage Yes, but I believe you also have some form of protection by always being given a pro-deo advocate?
in criminal court
not sure about trademark claims
@Zirak such as? I dont see an obviously named one on the string prototype
@Rooster .length
17:29
* 2 for bytes
thats not necessarily reflective of bytes
yes it is.
see Kendalls answer
what about utf8 characters that are multibyte
they count those
(opinion): If oracle goes after this app they must go after all. And youtube vidoes, everything.
17:29
1 min ago, by rlemon
!!> "💩".length
@Luggage I think they'll hit a few. get the word out that they're enforcing this. hope everyone else gets scared and starts using js or ecmascript
@Rooster javascript strings are utf-16
@Rooster Do you want to know the actual memory size in bytes, or the size when encoded in a specific encoding?
@Luggage Actual (this I know) international trademark is only valid if try to uphold it. If you don't uphold it always (where possible) a trademark becomes invalid.
@Luggage and google
ohh Oracle vs Google round .. I don't even remember now.
17:31
@KendallFrey actual memory size in bytes
then length * 2 is for you
Whats up with this though:
JS stores in UTF-16 as mosho pointed out
'Text ♥'.length = 6
there are 6 characters there
17:32
let foo = Buffer.from('Text ♥');
foo.length =8
what's the question?
oh
I'm guessing that's a different encoding
@jaekwon @chefhja In the 90s, Sun’s lawyers ran wild looking for “Java” tm trouble, even harassing a man whose name was Javanco and who ran a site with domain name “http://javanco.com” just because the domain started with j-a-v-a. I recall that he prevailed.
lol what the fuck..
how does it count skin tone modifiers and such?
Yeah, looks like Buffer.from converts to UTF-8
@Rooster Buffers by default are utf8
17:34
@Luggage I think that's just one code point
They count literal bytes, too
@jaekwon @chefhja Here is an oldie but goodie, I told it at @finjsio New York the other year: What does ORACLE stand for? One Rich @$$hole Called Larry Ellison <rimshot>
lol
@Rooster If you want the equivalent in browserland js, new TextEncoder('utf8').encode('whatever')
I wonder what would happen to Jakarta if Oracle got their hands on nuclear weapons
Gives you a Uint8Array
Lets you play with the bytes a bit
17:36
na, this is for a node thing
hmm
why is ♥ 1 byte in utf-16 and 3 bytes in utf-8
well, I guess it can happen
2 bytes in utf-16
I see 1 byte
!!> '♥'.length
@Mosho 1
every code point is 2 bytes in utf-16
17:36
s/1 byte/dead people/
It can't be 1 byte in utf-16. Also, js is not utf-16
right
js is a programming language
not a string
or a standard
of course it's not utf-16
Don't you tell it what it can and can't be
17:37
alright, Im with you on the one character equals 2 bytes
syntax is a social construct
thanks for clearing up my confusion folks :)
did you just assume my encoding?
@Rooster or more
@KendallFrey Aren't some code points 4 bytes?
17:38
damnit.....
Or is that some weird derivative?
so can string.length * 2 reliably be used then ?
@Rooster Why are you asking anyway? This should never matter.
I miss ASCII
@Zirak Some characters are made up of multiple code points
17:38
ASCII is alive and well
@Luggage I don't, I can't write in ASCII
I miss EBCDIC
but every code point is 16 bits in UTF-16
I'm adding some monitoring to a node app that communicates over a socket
man
I have so many things to do
17:39
just want to track bytes sent / received
so I think I'll just sit here and play games
@Rooster Then track bytes, not strings
thats what I'ma trying to do
@Rooster You might want to receive input as a buffer/uint8array anyway, then
@Rooster That's not what the question indicates
17:40
It was a XY all along!
Im receiving a string so I need to get bytes from string. (is my current direction)
you aren't receiving a string from a socket
WebSocket
@Rooster But that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the number of bytes actually transferred
e.g. gzip
requests can be gzipped, right?
17:41
well that also throws a spanner in the works
@Mosho come party in the streets with me
they usually are
if you put that in the handshake that you are going to use gzip encodded strings, then yes
ohh, websockets. i am thinking of http
17:42
> It has been tested on OSX and Linux.
@Zirak I worked hard to get off the streets
y no windows? ;-;
i think pcap is probably lower level than (s)he's looking for.
@FlorianMargaine I tried Doom Emacs. Then I quit.
@Luggage did you just assume Xe's gender as a binary one?
17:43
Roosters are male
@Luggage I don't think anyone in the world knows what they're really looking for
i think what I'm really looking for is just the number of bytes of the actual payload
which is just a json string
reference: xe
yea, yea.. pronouns.
xe is just a made up word
17:44
All words are made up
2
(:
(:)
I hate you
:(
{:}
17:44
):(
/\(:|{}|:)/\
@Rooster it's a string in UTF-8
:(){ :|: & };:
what is?
>:)(:<
17:45
@Rooster then you should maybe just stick to characters
I think there is a difference between trying not to assume "he" and going full SJW and I wish it didn't have to be that every time.
@Luggage it's pat
@Luggage that doesn't look bad, but it depends entirely on what they mean by "startup culture."
characters * 2 ?
fun fact: ())( is a palindrome
17:46
if it means "no triplicate forms," sign me up
@Rooster no, just characters
don't bother pretending to track bytes unless you actually track bytes
@ssube right. it can mean people actually give a shit, or that people are unpaid for infinite hours
yep
I like a balance of some new tools, some evening hours
I like a balance of equal weight distribution
hmm, thats a fair point
17:47
I like a balance of good turn-in and rear stability
lol stability. with all this snow coming down and freezing, I feel like I'm in a jeep.
except a perpetually almost-stuck one :P
@KendallFrey might I ask just for clarity what you would consider, "Actually tracking bytes" ?
does the heat and radio still work?
yeah, it hasn't gone full jeep yet
Then it sounds more like a stationary BMW than a snow-bound Jeep.
17:49
@SterlingArcher When are we jammin?
@Zirak SterlingArcher is afk: training
trainin for the jammin
@Rooster Counting the actual bytes being transferred, rather than calculating based on non-binary data
hmm. ok thanks.
17:55
@rlemon SterlingArcher is afk: training
wtf everyone is training?
@rlemon
ok, no
why did you ping me for that?
because..
pancakes?

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