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02:00
@SterlingArcher I wouldn't say a degree "means shit"
i'd agree
implied in that is that many of us learned by just having interest enough to fiddle or attempt a project
shit isnt as complicated as degrees
I learned it by helping other learn, reading, and doing.
@BenjaminGruenbaum you know I use pretty definitive terms 😛 don't read too hard into that one
02:01
I got introduced at school, I learned from my own stuff
I can see where a degree could help, just not when doing web/ui
yea, school can really show you around the landscape
or teach you wrong practices :D
@BenjaminGruenbaum depends on which degree you are talking about
in terms of general programming, it could definitely help
most people just tend to ignore the important parts
yea, a lot of that, but if someone came out of school with a good grasp of data structures and algorithms but just learned shitty JS habits.. that's ok
02:04
at my company, we say "Programming you can learn, attitude is harder."
... in dutch it sounds better actually
very true
Also, failure helped more than anything else. When I failed the lessons stuck that much harder. I while back got an interview once where the guys were complete dicks, noses up their ass so high. Started asking me some very difficult questions about space and time complexity. I learned that shit inside out after they ended the interview 15min in.
we have this dude on our team who can program, but he is so incompetent in his ideas
eg he is making a small app and is using a json flat file as the db. but he is just using a C# filereader filewriter to utilise it
why not use redis or something else that is so simple to use? 'it's too much overhead'
space and time... we could discuss that topic forever
@hsimah Those guys are awesome on so many levels.
02:07
define "can program"
it compiles
he can write code, well enough to fool the HR people into hiring him
psh, HR people
@Luggage hmm, if he didn't mention C#, I'd have doubt your statement too
he can follow direction, but if you let him do anything on his own he seems to take delight in doing things in the worst way possible and never learns from his mistakes
02:08
ah, one of those
and he is a 'senior' dev and earns more than I do
which really pisses me off :P
I am a "junior" dev and I earn more than some "senior" devs
i suppose they feel the same as you
if youre good at your job you deserve appropriate remuneration. if you get paid more because you are older, that is wrong.
By the way I am not really motivated by money. money is not motivation enough to learn this stuff.
if you feel like you deserve more, ask other people how much they'd give you to work for them
@Rick money is actually one of the bigger motivations
02:11
im not motivated by money much either. it irks me that i do my job, and 1/3 of this guy's job and he is getting more than I am.
the sooner you realize that, the more you will value it's concept
I am enjoying my current project so I am not actively looking to leave. But it is going to be done in a month and a half, so I will probably look around for a different job
1. it's hard for some third party to really "rank" devs perfectly
2. salary can be highly based on when you were hired, how badly they needed someone, the "feels" they got from the interview.
3. Once you realize later that one dev is a little better, you can't go back and start paying the bad one lower without risk them leaving.
I get paid more than enough to survive at the moment, so I want to work on projects/teams I want to work on, rather than need to work on
I have the tendency to build those projects
if there are projects I dont like, I start calling them legacy projects
02:13
I think Luggage is right, some things are time and place.
they are thinning out
@Rick well, they are right, but that wont stop you from mentioning that you feel underpayed
Also you can leave and find another gig, there is a shortage of these skills. You won't have a hard time getting more money
in some companies it can be hard to give large raises. You can hire a new dev at any amount you want, but giving an existing dev a raise to that level is denied based on an arbitrary max raise. Then good people have no choice but to change jobs to cash in on the experience they gained
where does the max raise come from?
corporate penny pinching
02:17
@Luggage but in most industries real raises happen when you switch jobs, not when you wait for a raise.
you dont even have to actually switch
I'm not talking about the employee waiting but a manger being unable to issue a raise to bring someone up to the same level as the rest of the team
I've seen it. Had to argue that "it's been years, this person gained skill and is as productive as everyone else"
yeah at my last job it was common to go get a 6 month contract elsewhere and come back on a 10k raise
"sorry, we only do max 2%"
you can say, "look, they want to pay me 60k a year while you give me 40k, if that doesnt change, I'd really consider switching"
02:19
yea, sometimes the employewe needs to come with another offer to get what they want.
@Luggage sounds like those are the company rules
I never really heard of it
also... 2%?
i just made 2% up, but for years they were being really stingy
my contract states that my salary will be having a raise with each year of my study
here annual salaries generally go up by inflation
1.5-3% depending on the year
unless you get a promotion
given that, I pass the year, I get a raise which is a linear increase so hard to define by percentages, but it still gives me a nice ~10% increase
02:21
developers (that don't suck) get more valuable every year in a way that some other jobs don't (as much)
Either way, my apartment raises the rent every year. Their slogan is market rate. These companies are not your friend. market rate changes based on demand. These companies would fire you in a blink of an eye if they could. I had to work for these skills and if they want to keep them they should pay fair market price for them. That's the way I view it.
@hsimah i dont think inflation should be a discussion actually
afaik, we are discussing the salaries based on how much your employer wants you to be there
@Rick I try to take a balance of loyalty and self interest. I give plenty of notice and try to pick a job I can stay at for a while, but be ready to move on if things aren't working out for me.
guys if I use es6 and babel or typescript to write my js code then it will support in every browser or not ???
every common browser supports javascript
02:26
@AlishaSharma yes. you may need various polyfills for some features but you can make it work
(apart from users disabling it occasionally)
babel and typescript can (with the right settings) support older browsers. How old? If you don't need IE9+, you are probably fine. IE11+ definately
even older, but you might not get ALL es6 features
but it depends on which features you want to use to find out what the earliest version of each browser is that supported it
02:29
I try to balance learning and environment. As soon as the environment gets toxic or I stop learning then I realize at that point I am cannibalizing on my future.
you won't get proxies with IE
Or Reflect
or fun
and the shims that are available suck
@huncyrus @Wietlol @Luggage so what would be your final suggestion for me to write supportive code in old browser ??
proxies are awesome as watchers.
oreo running on my nexus 5!
02:33
ow iDunno, I havent written a JS application in years
@William congrats
@AlishaSharma typescript. if you don;t like that, babel
flow is the way to go
:)
wrong answer
babel vs typescript??
if your going to learn typescript might as well learn go. just my humble opinion :)
02:36
except typescript is a flavor of javascript and fits his needs ot run on a browser
@Rick why not both?
they do very different things
Someone: Should I get the station wagon or the truck?
Rick: I like planes!
if you already know javascript typescript just seems like wasted effort.
j/k :)
typescript is an especially good linter for javascript (and the hints it needs to be effective)
02:38
learn powershell
learn llvm ir
I am sure it is but I spent the effort to learn the quirkiness js just to have it be managed by another language seems like double work.
I think you dramatically over-estimate the difference between JS and TS
then dont spend that effort
the runtime, the APIs, are all the same
02:40
people say they are very similar. and if it's that simple than I really don't need to learn it.
All JS is valid TS (though, with the highly suggested strict modes, it needs some more type info, and starts looking different)
You DO need to learn it's type system to maek the most of it. So you are half right
whi does my life hate itself?
you rarely need to learn any tool, but they can make your life easier and your code better
that's not always interesting to folks, though :)
but I think it's worth it. And other noobs on the team can just benefit in plain JS with the extra hints and "intellisense" that TS provides
I feel like golang is no better than node. But there seems to be demand for it. So I am learning it.
02:42
sounds like fun, but unrelated to JS in that it doesn't run in a browser
they're both in quite high demand
(I am ignoring WASM)
Go is a lot of fun, but not in the same way as TS.
weeeeee
It's much more blunt and imperative, not so inferred and shape/contract based
02:43
I just asked a girl on tinder if her name (Char) was short for Charmander and I have never been unmatched so quickly in my life
is that a pokemon?
yeah, but not a shitty one
Go is fun... more like not fun. I hate types. I want to focus on patterns and less on types.
learn haskell.
ah, you're looking for Java
you can define the patterns in XML and never write a bit of code or a single type
02:45
well, we took that VERY different directions
java is nothing but types. I hate java most of all.
F#. It still has types, but like JS, you can kinda write code ignoring that
F# is interesting, I might have to learn it one day
after Lisp, before Rust
if everything was written in js there would be peace on earth
I only fiddled with it, but I liked it. It was fun playing with functional programming
js is pretty flawed. I love it, but.. it's not the IDEAL language
02:47
it seems like a nice blend of FP with .Net's extravagantly powerful stdlib
that stdlib is why powershell keeps being useful even though I hate some of it's syntax and semantics
i wonder if the cross platform one will take off
lol, wtf
I think the next major evolution in programming will probably come after go. Maybe a version of js the dumps the baggage and goes multi-threaded with some intuitive type based system.
It shall be known as "Unicorn"
python keeps popping up everywhere I look.
02:58
I'm sure SO is compiling a graph of the most popular statements from each language
then they'll run a survey to pick the best syntax for it
I can't get notification dots to work in oreo....
@ssube It's fairly expressive and powerful but I don't like the syntax as well as, say, Haskell.
compiling for .NET is super nice though
they had to make some compromises to stay within .Net?
Yeah I would imagine so
i think it's just OCAML syntax or similar
i think there was some relation
> F# is member of the ML language family and originated as a .NET Framework implementation of a core of the programming language OCaml, Wikipedia
03:03
@hilli_micha Got a new sensor. Got it working with a diode, still homes with the sensor near the middle of the board though.
03:28
If you have the following string: "/a/b/first/one.js, /a/b/second/two.js, /a/b/third/three.html" and you want to select the last path (/a/b/third/three.html), how would you do so with regex? I tried /a/b/(.*?)\.html but that just selects the entire line
@ShrekOverflow Our services now work with RS256 access_tokens! I can use the mod-header chrome extension to manually set the authorisation header and the backend calls all work flawlessly
now we just need to update the frontend to get the new tokens
03:49
Morning
04:07
morning
posted on February 23, 2018 by Myles Borins

This is a special release to fix potentially Semver-Major regression that was released in v9.6.0 Notable Changes events: events.usingDomains being set to false by default was removed in 9.6.0 which was a change in behavior compares to 9.5.0. This behavior change has been reverted and the events object now has usingDomains preset to false, which is the behavior in 9.x prior to 9.6.0 (Myles Bor

Slow down, nodejs. I’m still on 6.11
04:29
^
my node.js is behind, my lucee si behind,
so any 3d printing specialists around. I want to 3rd print an iphone case? is this a terrible idea?
user2620028
04:47
@William @loktar @rlemon would be the people you want i believe
@William get some TPU
or flexible filament
works well from what I've seen
user2620028
now if only you could figure out how to 3d print some car interior stuff for me
that would be crazy expensive
@Loktar would it be realistic for me to print a front clear plastic cover or buy 1? I'm trying to make a case that goes over top of the apple battery case
eh 3d printing clear stuff doesn't work out super well
most is a bit cloudy regardless
I wonder how case makers do it. Obviously not with a 3d printer then lol
04:57
?
user2620028
05:11
@William moulding
05:23
Guys i am using typescript to convert es6 to js so I am facing this error :- on Argument of type 'NodeListOf<Element>' is not assignable to parameter of type 'string'. (method) NodeSelector.querySelectorAll<Element>(selectors: string): NodeListOf<Element> (+2 overloads) while using document.querySelectorAll()
how can I solve this?
05:58
06:09
Is it just me or this person sounds like they have a death wish 😃 ?
@david :COOL: "D
Decided to ask a question about windows phone before the site is closed windowsphone.stackexchange.com/questions/16630/…
@William Yes it does
it has the same thing as the windows 10
user2620028
06:30
@William yes, the notification numbers are typically located in the live tiles and few apps take advantage of them
hey guys who knows es6??
does es6 support proxies
yep @AlishaSharma
@ShrekOverflow there was a discussion about that before. Apparently there were people that does not lock their door. Or do not have issue with having them open. Seems totally weird from my PoV
These are college kids
sharing a house
I have used a dorm too back as student
06:43
I really don't get why would you do that in the US :D
I still lock it. More, it is stated in the rules that you have to lock the second door
first entrance door does not have locks. It is for post delivery to enter letters in the boxes or to ring someone from the building
counter-intuitive but I think it's safer to leave your door open
lol @ ndugger's image
yes but the line i've referenced does not have a body ... ?
is it even valid ?
(or am i missing something fundemental)
or does TS do union of declerations ?
@ShrekOverflow ?
I would ask this on the typescript repo
but basically how i Understand is
that its declared twice and defined once
mostly to help people who write
code that uses it
again as you can see
I am not an academic programmer
@ShrekOverflow mmmm
seems like method declaration list so that you can see which functions are being exported on first sight
happy rebecca black day
tinyurl..:)
function tap(observer: number): number;
function tap(observer: string): number;

function tap<T>(stringOrNumber:T) {
    return 4;
}

tap('Kappa');
tap(1);
tap<Function>(() => { }); /// SHTAP, YE SHALL NAWT !
I would really like some help on this, https://stackoveflow.com/questions/4545790/..., been stuck on this for like an eternity
3
umm........ magic
07:47
fio
hhh flow
people are bored...
:)
… is not the same as ...
copy the right one T_T
what are you, a windows user?
@ShrekOverflow kinda yeah, and kinda not :P
07:50
sniper eyes :P
well i don't even know how youd type that on windows :D
i use win
> In Windows it's alt+0133 on the numberpad.
…
…
07:51
…
On mac its Opt + ; (whoever chose this over Opt + . must be trolling)
…
you can do every ascii code
…
I know @RoyiNamir (you are a power user ;P) that comment was for Siatama
the ... vs … threw it off
It is safe to upgrade npm now
is a database engine smart enough to know to reverse the join of two tables assuming it is an inner join if it thinks it is more efficient reversing it?
07:53
someone asked a really interesting question a week ago : does a.toString exactly like `${a}` ?
I don't know if this is something that regularly gets optimized or what
@ShrekOverflow okay… will post that message once again when the room is kinda more active
:P
@Neil sure. it can do whatever he thinks would be better. Not to mention that I've met a wierd situation like : select *...... where 1=2 or exists( long time query)
and still - it took a long time
the optimizer can do whatever it wants
There are some query hint though that you can disable and make it calculate it as you wanted
(option recompile in sql server)
PSA: Don't open Siatama's posts, its friday my dudes.
=.=
y u do dis ;-;
07:57
the best - look at the exeuction plan
@RoyiNamir so it really depends on the engine I suppose
yes. ( also on statistics). Every sql engine has a statistics engine which needs to be looked at.
a.toString() doesn't work like ${a}
@Neil Look at a question i've asked : dba.stackexchange.com/questions/41343/…
@ShrekOverflow Tnx btw
NP :)
happy to help!
@SaitamaSama 2.9
08:00
huh?
08:17
@RoyiNamir that's interesting. I would have thought it would use short circuit logic to evaluate it
I'm dealing with tables with literally hundreds of millions of records recently and I'm often having to deal with optimization issues
(I didn't make the tables fyi)
o/
09:24
@SaitamaSama tell me you own that domain
Its safe to upgrade npm now, just don't explicitely install 5.7.0
5
what happens with node 5.7.0?
@Neoares Check the stars
you have been here yesterday neoares
10:00
[class^="ratio"], [class*="ratio"] { ... }
thanks, designer
now I can't create classes which contains the word "ratio"
like integration
I have set a rule here, if you want to select with *=, be sure that it is for un-usual names
like voo-doo
why the fuck would you even use that selector
@KarelG by rule you mean yell to the coworkers?
i am team lead :P
@BenFortune I don't know, ask the designer
I guess for radio-buttons, and shit like that
and the funny thing is the style that it contains is super aggressive
height: 0;
overflow: hidden;
position: relative;
10:03
with !important ?
😱
no
I mean it hides the shit out
lol yea
it took me a couple of minutes to realize
should have followed my rule
I was like "wtf my elements are not appearing in the screen!! >:("
10:04
ratio-hidden or something
@KarelG be my lead <3
oh wait, the designer doesn't work for us
lol
be his leader
you can overrule him then
it was outsourced
@KarelG I don't know what will happen to the whole project if I change that rule
the CSS rule
10:05
ask him for the reason
or her
or it
idk who was he
or she
or it
only the boss knows
asked the CTO, told me to find where the fuck is that selector being applied
any suggestions? ._.
since I'm using react, going page by page and running a querySelector won't be 100% guaranteed
you can use the search tool in your IDE
then apply regex
Hi all :-)
Could you please help me for React bug ?
yeah, I was also thinking about regex
class=".*ratio.*
10:13
yeah, or className, since it's JSX
0
Q: How to call validation for both onChange and onSubmit in React ?

MuhammedCurren Looking for solution to validate the form on both onChange and onSubmit instead of showing invalid on page load and doesn't check the DOM in onSubmit. Current onSubmit function which checking state value rather than DOM of input onSubmit = event => { event.preventDefault(); co...

just add | to it
Here is my issue in javascript validation. please any one help me to fix
Looking for solution for about 2 days now unfortunately As a beginner I couldn't fix yet
@KarelG also, what if className={{JS object}}
that, plus that I'm a regexp noob
quick maths
you can reduce your search to files that only loads that CSS stylesheet with that rule
10:20
yeah, that'd be better
I ended up with this shit
className ?=('|"|\{\{) ?.*ratio.* ?('|"|\}\})
shittiest regexp you've ever seen
how do you add optional space in regex?
/s?
\s?
accurate
thanks :D
Hi
How can I remove any character from regex? /[~!#$%^&*()|+\-=?;'"<>\r\n\{\}[]\]/gi`
with javascript
I can't remove it manually
put the cursor after the character, then press backspace
you need to clarify more.
10:27
@Neoares Thank you for this reply, I didn't know :D
no problem, I'm here to help :P
you want to modify an existing regex from an api or another function ?
@KarelG I have this regex pattern, /[~!#$%^&*()|+\-=?;'"<>\r\n\{\}[]]/gi
I need to remove \` or \"` based on condition
I guess you can treat it as if it was a string, then construct a new regex?
10:29
[^a-zA-Z0-9]
@Neoares this seems good idea
yeah I'm also surprised
:D
lol
lemne try it, if this doesn't work I'll get back to you soon
!!> atob(btoa("asd"))
@Neoares "asd"
10:38
question, if you have an sql database, and you have a clear property that is supposed to be unique by definition, would you still make a special column for the primary key?
what do you mean by "primary key"
an ID?
I'd always create an ID primary key
unique columns are just to avoid duplicates
it's like defining NOT NULL" or something
but if you want to have foreign keys, better to have just an integer
so, I'd have
[Id] INTEGER PRIMARY KEY IDENTITY(1,1),
[Name] VARCHAR(100) UNIQUE NOT NULL
like that?
I have a table which is exactly like that
CREATE TABLE public.integration_type
(
    id integer NOT NULL DEFAULT nextval('integration_type_id_seq'::regclass),
    name character varying COLLATE pg_catalog."default" NOT NULL,
    CONSTRAINT integration_type_pkey PRIMARY KEY (id),
    CONSTRAINT integration_type_name_key UNIQUE (name)
)
it's better to use IDs for foreign keys
well, there wouldnt even be that many foreign keys according to the current design... or any future changes
I don't know.. I just add IDs to everything
you can ask in SQL chat, you'll get a lot of opinions
@hilli_micha man I had the exact same thoughts

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