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22:00
Anyone have any pointers on how I might approach benchmarking react against a view library that I authored that has a similar-ish API?
@rlemon remember what I told you about this song haunting me?
@KamilSolecki rlemon is afk: youtube.com/watch?v=igNVdlXhKcI
nooo
@ndugger vue developers: just compare the library sizes
@ndugger 0xC4D18720
I don't get your joke
22:02
it's a legal pointer address
@ndugger i bet there are benchmarks they used to compare fiber vs previous versions
how similar of an api? can you run react tests against it?
by similar, I mean that each component has a render method, and it's JSX compatible
but that's about it
Hi everyone
Can someone recommend me an alternative to the MEAN stack? I am looking for an alternative statically-typed language, and something besides Java, Python, JavaScript, Ruby, and C#. Any takers?
22:05
there are a million
also pretty sure ruby isn't statically typed
C# backend. react/mobx front end communicating over graphql
@VermillionAzure TypeScript?
if all you want is a language, Go and Rust are interesting
Dart
with postgres database
22:06
Not C# though. I'm not sure if I want to tie myself to ASP.NET if it's going to be open source
not suitable for stacks of any kind
.NET Core
@KendallFrey I'm considering it right now.
@ndugger Is Dart actually stable though?
@VermillionAzure What's wrong with OSS?
don't use ASP or ASP.net then
22:06
Dart is dead
open sourceing of asp.net was a good thing, but you don't even need asp.net at all
you can host graphql in c# without.
but anywho...
@Luggage that's a pretty cool list
@KendallFrey C# is not as great for OSS yet because it's not all out there, and pushing things upstream has been problematic according to some internets
I am great at listing things.
@VermillionAzure "pushing things upstream?" "some internets?"
22:08
I am seriously considering C#
i'd worry more about the 3rd party OSS code you use IN c# than c# itself.
@Luggage I hereby announce you Luggage The Great
do you plan on contributing patches back to C#?
I'm also thinking Rust...?
otherwise I wouldn't worry about the upstream
@VermillionAzure are you writing embedded code or drivers?
omfg I just realized something
do you want an ORM? The availability of those can choose a language for you
Or, rather, my languages right now are going to be Rust, C#, and TypeScript. If I'm looking for speed and quickness of prototyping and development, I should go with TS right?
(if ORM is good/bad is another conversation)
22:09
if anything, Go makes more sense
@KamilSolecki you sharted silently an hour ago?
hereby is pronounced as here-by and not her-e-be
@ssube What does Go have over TypeScript?
@VermillionAzure it compiles to native
and it makes perfect sense
wow I'm stupid for not realizing that ealier
22:10
so, FCC voted to ban it in the end?
@VermillionAzure C# is pretty easy as well, it has a well-established workflow and toolset that handles all the faff for you
well, old news apparently
i assume. did they?
@ssube Oh wow
looks like it
22:10
I thought Go was VM-based
it was already a done deal.
BREAKING: FCC commissioners vote 3-2 decision to repeal Obama-era Internet protections #NetNeutrality https://t.co/ldReqQMWjG
wait, so the bill to kill net neutrality went through in US?
legal battles ahead
it wan't a bill. the fcc had complete power
they voted internally
22:12
oh
that's old
It's gonna go to court, and States are going to regulate, locally, since papa government can't be trusted to do the right thing
@towc and lemme guess, they don't need an absolute majority to pass
that tweet was ~5hrs ago btw
22:13
But anyways: Go vs. TypeScript?
@VermillionAzure they do different things
TypeGo
GoScript
@towc Do they?
@VermillionAzure nah, just messing with you. They do the exact same thing and there's no practical difference in them whatsoever
22:14
GypeSo.
that right there is sarcasm
So if I understand correctly...
is this for client or server? Go is a valid option for one of theose.
Go has a better concurrency story with goroutines, channels, which are implementation of Communicating Sequential Processes (CSP) which has strong theoretical background...?
@VermillionAzure they don't even compete
22:15
TypeScript is a valid option for both but more for front end
@VermillionAzure they're equally good at concurrency and async
that bad?
I personally like my typescript full stack
@ssube What happened to Node.js callback hell? Did they solve that with new ECMASscript async/await?
in short, yes
22:16
Also, if we're strapped to Node, that means I'll have to use JIT over AOT compilation with TypeScript -> JS -> V8 right?
And the Node package ecosystem... is it really that good? I've been using Meteor recently, and I do not like the fragmentation
that doesn't matter
lol
I thought you were serious for a while
ok, last person left at 23:16 today :D
this might turn out to be quieter than I thought
@towc did they kiss you good night?
like, a lot quieter
which is kinda sad
@ssube I am very serious. I want a stable ecosystem, and I've heard a lot of problems with the way Node and NPM do things
e.g. leftpad fiasco
22:17
@KamilSolecki all of them. 50€ each
meh, no more so than any other tool with a central repository
> I've been using Meteor recently
I feel kind of lonely actually
but yeah, if you think meteor is fragmented, lol
@ShrekOverflow I was forced to use Meteor for my class
22:18
meteor is easy mode
and my immediate reply to that is to want to go camping
and absolute shit
npm is fine in my experience, and you can always get fancy with local caches and such once you grow into that.
and also dead
@ssube :)
22:18
I don't like Meteor at all
Its exactly what a meteor is supposed to be
@VermillionAzure what's the problem you're trying to solve?
> Also, if we're strapped to Node, that means I'll have to use JIT over AOT compilation with TypeScript -> JS -> V8 right?
You'll use JIT in node regardless
honestly, I can barely get anything done if I don't have a problem to solve
TypeScript isn't doing any magic
22:19
@ShrekOverflow half the options are compiled or interpreted languages...
s/solve/create/
that you'd expect from say a C/C++ compiler
// is there a js-idiomatic way to get the position which
// insertVal should be inserted into?
const arr = [1,2,3,5];
const insertVal = 4;
arr.splice(/*insertionIndex*/, 0, insertVal);
findIndex()?
@NathanJones inserted into to get what result?
22:19
TIL splice takes 3 arguments
@towc I want to build a social networking service for my university to foster innovation. I want to build the backend in a stable language that is not Node and not JavaScript, as I don't like the way the Node ecosystem works. I am looking towards using Angular or React for front-end as well, and the UI framework is still up for grabs, if I do use one
and at the end the JS you'll use will execute in JIT Compiler :P
cause it's probably findIndex
@ssube are we saying the same thing?
14 mins ago, by VermillionAzure
Can someone recommend me an alternative to the MEAN stack? I am looking for an alternative statically-typed language, and something besides Java, Python, JavaScript, Ruby, and C#. Any takers?
Go and Rust have been discussed since
22:20
oh I was talking about node specifically
oops! i forgot to mention i want the end result to be [1,2,3,4,5]
I value static types in my language because they allow me to not have to write tests. And I'm not sure about Rust since it's too young right now...
!!> let foo = 4; [1, 2, 3, 5].findIndex(v => v > foo)
@Luggage 3
G if you are that staggered just go use Java :P
22:20
@VermillionAzure tough titties: TS is almost directly JS, and the main solutions you can find for JS on the backend all have Node
stablest eco system ever :D
@towc Exactly. I was willing to use TypeScript because it has wide support for the Node ecosystem's packages, and because it has static types to remove the wonkiness of JS.
Wonkiness of JS hmm
well, type-checking. not exactly static types.
But, I'm also valuing Go because it's backed by a large professional following and has a good concurrency and performance story
22:21
but sure.
Personally speaking, I have been programming for a while
the last reason I choose is performance, Java is insanely faster than Python
@VermillionAzure wat
@ssube Type errors are compile-time errors, not runtime
@VermillionAzure that is just.. totally off
> types ... allow me to not have to write tests
is 100% false
22:23
@VermillionAzure wat
110%$ even
> Rust since it's too young right now...
@ssube Well duh. But less tests, I would guess
trump has tweeted more truth
@VermillionAzure NO!
@VermillionAzure how so
22:23
So - TypeScript or Go?
cfml
use Java
the only thing types have to do with tests is give them a chance to run
@VermillionAzure Coke or Kinley?
22:24
@Zirak I'll have Coca Cola, please
@Zirak where do you find kinley?
@VermillionAzure AK 47 or M16?
@ssube in a tonic store.
@ssube At the store, mostly
22:24
@ShrekOverflow those are equivalents, ya dingus
Sometimes in the garbage
That gives me no help
TS and Go are not equivalent
@VermillionAzure ask a reasonable question, then
@Zirak that leaks significant information about where you are from
Is Go a suitable language with good tooling for backend development?
22:25
@ssube Not Really
@VermillionAzure Well, we can't really help when you're asking us to help you choose between two very separate things without helping us help you
@ShrekOverflow meh
@VermillionAzure if you want it to be
@VermillionAzure Give it a shot, see if you like it
"suitable" and "good" are broad
Live your own life
22:26
AK has greater penetration, while M16 has a better effective range
@VermillionAzure Even Java is a suitable language with good tooling for backend development if you want it to be
well, i assume you could write a backend in either TS or Go, right? They are 'equivalent' in that way...?
M16 also has a greater ROF
So if you were given the choice, what language would you choose? And why?
both
22:26
@KamilSolecki depends which game
for all the reasons
we use ar-15's here.
@VermillionAzure What should I eat, a stick broccoli or some cabbage?
for all legal and illegal purposes
the honda civic of guns
@Luggage Please explain what is with americans and ARs. Every one I've met personally has one at home
22:27
AK 47 is like Toyota Truck of Guns or Java of Programming languages
Were you traumatised by broccoli as a child? Do cabbages not grow in your area?
the m-16 is just the namebrand vietnam-era ar-15, isn't it?
You guys are ridiculous
@VermillionAzure you're the one asking apple-orange questions
If I were to ask the question of using C++ vs. Rust there are a lot of reasons to choose one over the other under certain situations
22:28
they're both fruit, but that's it
wait, yo can get AR w/o license
right?
@VermillionAzure thats a lot more suitable comparision
@VermillionAzure under certain situations
@KamilSolecki I common gun. lots of parts. related to something used buy the military (which lessens the price and increases the appeal). The same reasons people like Jeeps or Hummers
That's progress right there
22:29
@VermillionAzure basically it depends on what you are trying to do
"make a social network" is not specific
everyone has an ar-15 the same reason everyone has a cr-10, the same reason everyone has a Mustang or an iPhone
Youtube, Twitter and Facebook are social network
I want to build a website that has support for group creation, accounts, and membership
what performance or architecture problems have you run into with your current language?
22:29
Fun fact, Facebook is still written in PHP iirc
I will build it using MVC or MVVC
they built a custom way to run PHP :P
@ssube Meteor is a terrible system that has a ridiculous startup time
@ShrekOverflow if you mean HHVM, it doesn't even support PHP anymore
22:30
It's heavy-handed approach seems ridiculously proprietary, and Galaxy is not helping my perception that it's open and good for the future
so they finally moved from PHP ?
@ssube didn't follow on that
@KamilSolecki you need an ID. and a clean criminal record. no warrants, etc
they've been moving some things to Hack for a while
HHVM dropped PHP when 7 came out
22:30
fascinating
C++ doesn't have a nice and modern web development framework that I can see using, and C is the same way
You sure about that?
Like absolutely sure?
@VermillionAzure and a pair of blog posts detailing its death
"I want to make a social network and meteor sucks" is no more helpful than just the first half
you need to figure out what your question is
@Luggage I see.
Nevermind
I'll come back after I try both
Speaking of guns, I laughed my ass of when I heard that my neighbor would run & shoot a tear gas gun while chasing a robber.
@ShrekOverflow why would you use that over Go?
@KamilSolecki and 'training' which is bullshit. We should have moire training.
@KamilSolecki oh boy
22:33
yeah gun training should be a thing
@ssube I would never even compare C++ and GO :P
I am neither qualified
but again, common sense should be a thing too
nor into that kinda stuff
and its not really
prolly I'll do research
see what others are using either for
22:33
@ShrekOverflow you're a reserach guy?
then make a decision, in past I have ended up writing Native Modules for Node.JS when C++ was absolutely needed
Go and Rust are just C++ made safer in one way or another
I am an Ogre
it's simple to operate one safely, but people need time to get those behaviors muscle-memoried in. They they should be told about storage, laws, etc, since they don't always read on their onw.
right now you watch a short video and off you go
@ShrekOverflow How was it?
22:35
@ShrekOverflow I thought I might have to do that, but now I'm thinking gRPC will suffice
It was fun, until I created a memory leak than debugged nodejs with valgrind and now i have a pet dragon.
My favorite radio station has a program on friday, where a guy always talks about one bank heist that happend last week in the US
Things people do
people still rob banks?
@ssube I know, back than GO was very new
a new one each week?
22:36
why bother?
I am excited that I'm gonna write applications in Rust
this winter :)
@ssube well one because the cashier is obliged to give you the money
I'm excited for Rust as well
some of them actually made it
the money at hand
22:37
and are yet to be found
suprisingly
the risk:reward is terrible, you might get a few grand, but response times are lower
they won't open the vault, that only happens on TV.
obviously
even if you shoot a few people to let them know you are serious?
if you have any clue what you're doing, robbing a bank seems like a terrible idea
@ssube disregard my last comment I confused gRPC and assumed its rust way of calling C stuff acryonm. Thanks a ton this looks gorgeous, just woe :o I didn't know this existed. My life has been a lie.
22:38
@Luggage they usually have a safeguard, like nobody knows the code or it only opens at X time
or once the silent alarm is tripped, the door locks
that's why you only rob it a little and case the joint the first time
Is it a bad idea to load my javascript asynchronously on all pages except for like a checkout page?
ah, yes, the rob-the-same-bank-three-times strategy
My fav one was from a few weeks ago, where a 80+ lady came to the bank and demanded insert a funny little sum of money because she thought the bank "robbed" her last week by giving her too few out of the ATM
problem was
she was escaping with a help of a walker.
she managed to rob them while on the walker, but couldn't get away?
lol
what a badass
i'll open that in incognito mode
@KamilSolecki the comments are grotesque
it's actually spelled youtube
they set the bar for comments
Youtube comments can be nice
fox news are just out of the world
22:43
citation needed
Just a sec
not actually lol
I'm just saying youtube comments are pretty bad
@ssube lol no doubt, I read a ton of comments on Space videos when I feel that I am stupid.
#makeflatgreatagain
ugh
so now it's printing just fine. I wonder if it was a bad spot in the filament...
22:46
so, I've spent the past night (and part of this evening) moping the floors of the place
and now I discover they have a vacuum
so very towc
those don't do the same thing
@ssube >Looks like Granny Clump from The Nutty Professor.
you have to sweep or vacuum first, then mop
I dont wanna know what Nutty Professor is
he was mopping the carpet
22:47
oh, I thought moping was the same as sweeping
but moping is with water?
@KamilSolecki unfortunately, Eddie Murphy
so I meant sweeping
22:48
sweeping and vacuuming are similar
mop is this thing that you soak with water
no, there's a mattress/couch full of dust that I'd like to start using
if you mop without sweeping, the dirt will just stick to the floor and stuff
I can't put it vertically because of reasons
oh cool, won my first RX race in iRacing
22:49
so I'm currently hammering it with a sweeping tool
jfc
broom
Speaking of games, I'm slowly climbing the ranks in Tekken 7
apparently
man is this game challenging
22:49
how do you not know what a broom is?
should I be doing sommething else?
@ssube I knew the word, it just never came to mind when I moved here to think about what I was doing
@KamilSolecki Try Shadow Ninja 3
You might like it
I've played it
its nice
but Tekken has at least 10x more in depth stuff than I originally thought it would
I'll feel satisfied if I ever reach the top 10% of players
😃 there's a 3d printed robot arm in the room with the vacuum cleaner
@Luggage towc snuck into your house somehow. Get out, leave fire.
22:56
Btw I've recently came back to my SO chat api project
doing a rewrite cause im not satisfied on how things started to look
not my house. i don't vacuum
I've separated the scraper from the API entirely, since I want to keep the api fully api-like
that sounds good, ingest is often its own thing
you might want to save all the old messages and batch ingest them from HTML later
As soon as the scraper is finished (which I'm hoping to be tomorrow or this weekend) im getting back on getting the api done
scraper is here now
But, one thing Im considering and cannot decide which direction I should go with this
this place has so much hardware stuff in it
might not look it, but those shelves are super high
22:59
my basement in a year :(
I'm going to want to not only support daily scrapes of the last day of transcript, but also have it be able to do scraping of stuff on demand
now, question is

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