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18:00
To Civil War
if we have Foo.js an Bar.js and we export it from Util.js , and you only import Util.Foo do you still load Util.Bar ?
I would think so
if in node, using imports at the top of the files, yes.
probably always yes.
aren't imports hoisted tho...
er, yea, probably
18:15
Can someone please tell me exactly what node does?
Node does whatever node wishes to do, which is, whatever you tell it to
executes javascript
kinda like how python executes python
oh. That's it?
so basically, it's javascript without a browser?
Webservers are one thing that node can do
18:17
Thanks for clearing that up. I thought it was some kind of library
hmm.. so unused code paths still get lexed and parsed...
Gulp runs in node, too
node comes with some libraries that browsers don't have, like for filesystem access.
so there is a "node api"
There's also node-webkit, which combines both
node-webkit is dead, long live electron
18:19
!!google electron.js
To change the subject, I have a question about making a game with JS.
i would think so.. theres no lazy loading..
fuck
For what platform?
I'm having it check if keys are pressed every tick, and executing something if they are.
Hang on I'll let you finish
what could be the reason why inputElement.focus() is not working?
am I doing something stupid?
It must be in the document, I would guess
and not a hidden input, or read only, or disabled
@tereško does it work if you set a tabindex to the target element?
might not work for file inputs either
18:22
no, it's a dynamically created input (type=text)
fiddle pls
sure ... gimme a minute
Minute's up
so that's why js libraries are either hundred kb's long or you choose what you want..
Use Haskell :-D
18:24
what happened to the haskell chatroom @JanDvorak
unless this is the browser we are talking about, why are you caring if a few .js files get loaded and their code not used during some specific task?
@catgocat It commited suicide out of sheer boredom
predictable
@catgocat long time no see.
18:25
@Luggage yes, school-busy
Bah, I'm employed now.
great!!
Front-end dev + a bit of C# + a blog proofreader
nice combo, I'm heading for c# this summer
thought to give it a shot
18:28
bang
You missed. Now @Luggage has initiative.
/me lobs a pizza
you have to click "leave preview" to even see first input gaining focus (well .. it's the second, because of insertBefore())
So, what are you trying to focus and when?
18:30
waaaita a moment
Perhaps it doesn't work because frames?
I cant reproduce the issue actually :(
fuck
That's ... an obstacle
@JanDvorak it's worse - now the original sopt actually begun working
18:31
perfect.
what the actual fuck
@copy ah dammit. brainpo
Heisenbug?
@Luggage it's the opposite of "perfect", when bugs vanishes, while you were making an example
Schrodinger's Bug
18:33
didnt weigh in the dependencies there.... we might be loading hundreds of unused js every time we node..
I dont even had an opportunity to change enything
you opened the box and found a dead bug.
@cswl How often do you even node bro?
@cswl also known as just running any non-trivial code with dependences.
18:34
> a heisenbug is a software bug that seems to disappear or alter its behavior when one attempts to study it
@Luggage done
@tereško amazing splash screen
after multiple refreshes and re-builds it was still there
successfully configuring eslint to do what you want feels like winning an editor/os flame-war
18:35
the big first letter on that pages was annoying. backward E all obscured.
that's a pretty plant cage.
plant cage / sitting area / pond pump sun protector
@tereško only if you have to use JS or anything related to webdev
@AwalGarg read the article
... then reexamine your life choices
nah. I configured eslint. I am gonna celebrate
(I read it ages ago. don't wanna read again)
@JanDvorak good c# book?
18:39
@catgocat I'm not
@JanDvorak it's a play on the heisenberg uncertainty principle, which says that observing an experiment changes its result. The analogy is, when you debug, the bug becomes invisible
I know...
you asked. sorry
You misunderstood
he asked if it was one or not, not the meaning of that word
18:41
I was asking if that bug was one
@littlepootis I posted the thread to HN like an hour ago. 100 points already.
hackernews
heisennews
They only hold original content if you don't read them
@AwalGarg lol
@doug65536 what? No
18:44
you a physicist? gimme a break
I know momentum position etc
I doubt he has a break himself to lend you one
dude is a total break-less weirdo
what's the opposite/counteraction for "to prepare"?
@tereško procrastinate?
half-joking and half-trying-to-give-a-valid-answer: "to devastate"
@tereško unprepare
18:47
I need to "un-prepare" a widget
it exists
reverse? revert?
destroy
it wouldnt get destroyed
uninit?
18:48
what could you possibly be doing to "prepare" something
What exactly is happening there?
does it undo the preparation? then revert is correct
something wrong with initialize?
@AwalGarg yeah, that's what I will be going with
soft reset?
18:48
making up bs terminology is counterproductive
but fun
had to make-up "transactionable" once
crud-compliant
the guy that reads your code next month is your friend, not your enemy
@doug65536 you are one of those people who code only because it is "a job"
right?
18:50
now
@tereško not at all
I am a big believer in making it as easy as possible for someone to understand code, that's all
I have no freaking idea what I've just named
and therefore I like to stick to standard terminology, and I advise it
@doug65536 sure .. what is the standard terminology for taking an input text and then replacing it with colored items? And what is the standard terminology for undoing it?
languages work because we all agree on which symbols mean what. if we start making things up, it defeats that
18:52
colourize / decolourize?
Since a while I have started to believe that the only bs things are statements which generically dismiss a methodology/practice/whatever. For every generic "don't do this", we have enough of valid exceptions that repeating that "don't do this", specially to non-newbies, gets not only boring but irritating.
@doug65536 u r a smrt gui
@tereško map is the term for taking N inputs and producing N outputs
@doug65536 but that doesn't mean that we halt making more symbols
mapNamesToColors ?
yeah forget the 27 years of experience, just go with the flow, right?
@AwalGarg make a case for eval and doc.write
@JanDvorak eval: detecting syntax support, compiling special functions for perf. doc.write: testing, making documents intended to be printed with window.print.
I can see an eval with generated strings, but doc.write? Never!
How does either use case justify doc.write?
You prepare printed versions with media queries
@doug65536 do you really think that "trust me, because I told you on the internet, that I have X years of experience" works here?
18:58
you think I care what some jerk in an SO chat room thinks? lol
and with testing you have plenty of options, ranging from console.log (best) to document.body.html += (still better than doc.write)
@JanDvorak that's not what I meant with "printed versions". I meant documents whose content is dynamically generated. media queries don't generate content.
I can hardly stand SO anymore
@AwalGarg never leave variables undeclared.
@JanDvorak you don't always have console.log
18:58
@AwalGarg wat
@doug65536 cry me a fucking river
if it isn't a moron downvoting a correct answer it is a self proclaimed internet expert making others feel bad about themselves
@doug65536 wat
I hereby proclaim that I am an expert on Javascript.
19:00
oh so no packages for es6 modules, since they are static.. you'd have to import everything in the main entry point... so that's why new apis are all import 'xxx/yyy/zzz'
@Luggage hmm, good one. that's actually not even allowed in strict mode anyways so I don't care :P
I have downvoted three answers today. I proclaim myself a moron.
@JanDvorak as in, until recently doc.write was valid in stackoverflow snippets. what if they hadn't added the console support?
cases like that
innerHtml +=
19:01
@JanDvorak explain how is that better than doc.write (when executed on document.body)
@JanDvorak maybe we should compare downvote-to-upvote rates ?
@AwalGarg can be used within events
@tereško I mostly downvote
!!stats 499214
@Luggage Jan Dvorak (http://stackoverflow.com/users/499214/jan-dvorak) has 18112 reputation, earned 0 rep today, asked 0 questions, gave 520 answers, for a q:a ratio of H̸̡̪̯ͨ͊̽̅̾̎Ȩ̬̩̾͛ͪ̈́̀́͘ ̶̧̨̱̹̭̯ͧ̾ͬC̷̙̲̝͖ͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝͍M̲̖͊̒ͪͩͬ̚̚͜Ȇ̴̟̟͙̞ͩ͌͝S̨̥̫͎̭ͯ̿̔̀ͅ.
avg. rep/post: 34.83. Badges: 7g 35s 58b
lol, so skill scales in proportion to how much time you donate to ad funded sites?
19:03
wat?
I think those stats prove Jan spends more time giving than taking.
funny, most real devs I know don't spend one second on these sites. I'm a bleeding heart though
Hi! If anyone uses wiredep and bootstrap-sass-official and bower, maybe you can help with missing links to bootstrap files in bower:css and bower:js?
for some reason that completely eludes me, I want to help people
'real dev' is pretty relative. I know shitty devs that barely know of SO, some 'good but not awesome' ones that get a lot of help on SO and a few 'good' devs that contribute
Ohh, I see what you are saying. Yea.. I don't know proportions, but I think the really good ones usually like helping with interesting questions.
people stuck in high-school prove-how-cool-I-am mentality
19:06
keyword intersting.
@doug65536 nice Scotsman there
@JanDvorak resetting innerHTML will remove those events, so it's not like it has no warts.
@tereško yeah? I doubt you know what that means. what one true thing did I mention
stop fighting here please. take it to another room. kthnx
19:07
@AwalGarg appendAdjancedHtml or whatever it's called
I can't even tell what this 'fight' is about..
@AwalGarg pissing people off helps with my digestion
@JanDvorak yeah that is indeed a good method. the signature is kinda ugly due to the first param but whatever
but anyways, dynamic window content is still a good point (for now, anyways. template tags solve it better but I won't argue against myself :P)
@Luggage that is a strawman argument. you are twisting what I said into a criticism of jan
it wasn't an argument, it was an observation which I caveated.
19:15
wow that systemd post is going like crazy. HN apparently has lots of opinions on systemd
I have no opinions on systemd, yet. I'm very much a user, there.
I'd like a community driven fork of systemd (a fork of iojs level, not someone's personal fork). It is a good project but the core dev team behaves like assholes to everyone else and take decisions solely to irritate people.
solely to irritate you.
oh come on. you know linux devs are famous for being total assholes. let's be real here
nah. systemd is one single project in the linux world to receive so much hatred from the community. lennart has an image worse than linus, which is saying something.
19:24
linus is exactly the kind of guy you don't want working for you. completely toxic, killing any passion that devs have left
the attitude usually is, if you are not good, go to hell. yeah, that makes sense, they have to be good already to get help
downvote for not being good?
it shows code, explains what happens, what was expected, etc.
or he should be an english expert to avoid downvotes
oh I get it. you have to be a js expert already to post questions
So, let's see.
Personal background is not useful for the question
Multiple questions per post
no proofreading
greetings don't belong to SO questions
Uses jQuery without loading it = brain fart question
aka typo
or just a total newb, which I have more tolerance for that someone that SHOULD know better.
Plus the other three things Blex pointed out
I wish downvotes were advertised more politely. For a guy new to not only programming but to the "forum" itself, getting downvotes and "negative reputation" associated with it would be very off-putting.
one should verify tokens in app.js (express server) or verify them in respective route
:l
Please Suggest
It is discouraging and infuriating indeed.
19:38
@AwalGarg Do you explain your downvotes?
I don't downvote questions if I think my downvote needs an explanation. I simply comment stating what's wrong. There might have been some exceptions in the past but atleast now I don't.
O(n)
Like I just did
19:40
I disapprove of withholding moderation for the fear of breaking someone's heart by a downvote
0
Q: Rename multer based on POST params NodeJS

user2251234I am uploading an image using multer in NodeJS. I am also renaming the image using diskStorage as such. var limits = { fileSize: 3 * 1024 * 1024 }; var storage = multer.diskStorage({ destination: function (req, file, cb) { cb(null, './public/uploads/') }, ...

typical meta crew guy
Jan you must accept the fact that there are many newcomers
me for instance
Newcomers must accept the fact we have standards here.
I look at folks here with starry eyses
eyes*
and I try to improve as much I can
19:42
@GandalftheWhite you were pointing out mistakes int he code, which wouldn't be proper to downvote anyway.
Token should be checked in app.js or specific route!
downvoting is for ambiguous or bad questions
I haven't downvoted @Luggage
I usually take followup comments
and then I provide exact rectification
I have even tried helping people on chat
but not always
when I am in good mood, I do that.
@Luggage or those that are "not useful". Read the hover tooltip.
I got no time for hovering.
19:44
Read the hover tooltip and stop coddling help vampires.
Can I have the word from you guys now
You should welcome questions that can help others, not just anything that is answerable.
Token verification in express.js server or specific routes
The word is given..
19:45
@GandalftheWhite I would say "wat" but you have asked a more detailed question twice already. Stop it. We've heard you.
@JanDvorak in case you are not trolling, but actually stating your opinions: sorry but behavior like yours is what causes many people to be needlessly upset and you can hear cries of people on other communities about how Stackoverflow over-moderated. You need to chill.
I downvote, for things like false information, arguing with suggestions, dismissing everything because they they have a PhD in what isn't causing the problem, and totally asinine code like str.( true ? replace(/c/, '') : doNothing() )
Well...see this kinda' response is not easy for new fellas
I downvote based on the asker's race, gender and creed. (not really, of course)
in the beginning such responses were discouraging for me as well
but then again
I gotta do what I gotta do
Cheers!
19:47
@AwalGarg Sorry, but behavior like yours is what causes SO to be fillled with selfish questions that help nobody, people who embrace crap because it's not as crappy as some other crap, people helping clueless programmers get salary for someone else's work, and people rewarding anytthnig that's ttechnically correct.
for rep.
don't recruiters recognize rep whores though? I assume rep whores are out to look good for getting jobs
I would rather hear a thousand help vampires cry than one programmer that's actually worth their salary.
44 mins ago, by Eugene
Hi! If anyone uses wiredep and bootstrap-sass-official and bower, maybe you can help with missing links to bootstrap files in bower:css and bower:js?
@JanDvorak so your problem is not with the questions but rep-whores answering bad questions. so downvote answers on bad questions instead?
19:49
@doug65536 "we can give them food because in the ideal world they wouldn't find a diner table anywas"
@AwalGarg Do you know what closing is for?
@JanDvorak to prevent that behavior, yes. but what you are missing is that it also has an effect on the OP of the question - simply because of the way it is advertised. It comes off really rude.
@AwalGarg Plus it would be confusing: "nobody told me its' a bad qusetion. Why are you punishing me for provinding technically correct information?"
@AwalGarg If you are offended by a nameless arrow pressing down on your ego, then please gtfo off SO
@JanDvorak "nobody told me it's a bad question. Why are you punishing me for asking a simple question?"
I gotta poop. I hope this is over when I am done.
@AwalGarg No, I'm punishing them for not doing their research.
19:52
I am so glad I started with computers so long ago. I doubt I could handle people constantly crushing my passion, like SO users do to beginners
You know, googling and such. Reading the documentation for the library you're using.
@JanDvorak I am not, but some people do. Instead of helping them improve, you are actively discouraging them from even trying to improve.
@doug65536 WE'RE NOT CRUSHING PASSION, WE'RE CRUSHING LAZINESS
yes, some of it is that
I agree, we need to keep the crap level under control. but a lot of it is just attacks
user1596138
@rlemon You must have bought a monster lol
19:53
@AwalGarg Do you think answering crap will encourage anyone to ask better questions?
user1596138
@rlemon you sure it doesn't have a switch?
@JanDvorak no. But commenting what's wrong with their question and telling them how to ask better questions would.
downvotes, as they stand, are rude to not one but many many newbies.
imagine what would happen if they disabled all the review queues and closing. lol
Sure, go ahead. But if you can't do that, downvote anyways.
hint: it would become yahoo answers
19:55
ninja'd
@JanDvorak that's literally what I stated above and you said that's "withholding moderation" which you "disapprove" :P
@AwalGarg Not downvoting = withholding moderation. Don't not moderate.
if everyone here has to be a kick ass dev, why not make a beginner stack overflow. where you arent hated for not being an expert
Because that would be Y/A 2.0
Make a site for lazy devs and only lazy devs will be visitng the place
you can see it in some questions right? They know that they will be yelled at and downvoted etc, and they are all apologetic.
19:57
@JanDvorak your moderation is bad and you should feel bad :)
@doug65536 We wouldn't be yelling at them if they bothered to do basic research
If their questions are still not useful, so be it.
to them, it would be so easy for an expert to tell them what is wrong. Some people are stuck for a long time, and they need to work on their troubleshooting skills. They are at a total loss, they have no idea what to try, because they don't know how it works right down to the machine like real devs
I can understand that
Sure, but SO questions are to be kept. You can try your luck on the chat if your question doesn't deserve any more than 15 seconds of fame
@doug65536 I agree. All I am saying is that a little positive attitude and help can improve them as a developer, and a little negative attitude can discourage them and not help them at all.
we're all right, to a degree. we need less crap, and we need less attacks on well meaning beginners
20:01
@awal I'm asking you again: do you have the time to type personalised motivationals for 50 people / day?
you can't take every one of the beginner aside and teach them how to google and read docs. there are too many
and as someone that learned programming before i even had internet access, I have little sympathy. It's a lot easier today.
@Luggage There are also a lot more options today.
We have the opposite problem today.
@JanDvorak with some good enough automated tooling at my hand, sure. close vote reasons are already pretty good. just need to improve the way it comes off to the OP.
20:02
ok, also true
great, this argument drew the attention of the cops
don't tell him anything.
@AwalGarg If you have any wording improvements for any of the 9 CV cans, meta's the place to go
@Luggage I disagree. I think there is at least 3x more wrong information out there now
I started in the 80's, when you were starved for new computer stuff
yea.. we need to be able to vote-close bad blog posts with wrong info
@Luggage that would be nice lol
@Luggage Don't worry, these aren't the kind of cops that lure you into the middle of a big city, drug you up and tell you to walk home.
20:04
Okay. This argument is still on. Good.
sounds like a date.
What we really need is a partisan attack on the w3schools HQ. The rest is moot.
@JanDvorak IMHO, the main issue is downvotes. I don't think suggesting "making downvotes more polite" is gonna end up supportive on meta because of the crowd's attitude of "burn all the things"
Are you suggesting an automated popup for the first time someone gets an upside down chinese hat?
that could be an improvement, sure, if you actually label them upside down chinese hats.
20:07
@AwalGarg SO was not designed to be noob friendly.
It was designed to be expert friendly.
Originally, this was a place where experts can ask, and other experts can answer
That ... might get things worse, actually, because you're pointing out "hey, there's that special someone who doesn't like everything you say"
The medium-noobs are naturally attracted.
an exchange, for experts?
@MadaraUchiha apparently so
inb4 hyphen site
20:08
@Luggage lol
I saw one where they guy claimed, array split doesn't work, because alert(str.split(',')) says A,B. I posted answer saying it is because converting an array to a string implicitly joins it. got downvoted
@littlepootis did you install POTC ?
also (yet another crazy as hell mod liquidfirestudios.com/projects/age-of-star-wars for a game that wasn't so good before the mod for others)
@doug65536 Happens. Not a reason to cancel all downvotes.
@JanDvorak see now that's what I am referring to meta's general attitude. They take a simple feature-request and try to bend it in a way that it looks bad, resisting the change. Instead of that "special someone", you could have "the community members suggest that you fix $issue in your question to get better help", but noooooo! why have nice things when we can be rude to everyone!
@AwalGarg wat
20:11
and ignorance as well
The problem with that is that people would have to explain their downvotes
wait, now that's a problem?
An unexplained downvote is still a useful signal
you lose some of that if you require mandatory explanation
Sure, it sucks that everyone that doesn't bother taking a few minutes before asking a question can't get, in return for nothing, someone else's time to hold their hand and make them feel welcome before downvoting a bad question.
3
but that's life.
So why downvote? how is that helping at all?
20:13
It teaches the quality filter
that's the 'curating'.
people need to put a focus on upvotes, not downvotes
It drives the autoban system
no, close votes are there for that
20:13
no u >:( awal is right
we've all seen good, long, perfectly formatted answers that clearly work, selected as answer, and 0 upvotes
accept awal as your hero and have the most fantastic day of your life
and now I must have some cookies, coke, and go to bed
Not all crap is closable. If you can change that, sure...
@doug65536 that's normal human behavior. They downvote things they don't like and happily run off with good answers and never bother upvoting.
happens everywhere
and stop feeding egos by upvoting one line questions with 4500 upvotes already
20:15
What if I need something to stroke, what to choose instead of my ego?
(don't answer)
get a cat?
A cat.
damn, beat me
Good answer
downvoted.
20:17
G2G. Got punished by cops for crying in public, so I need to sleep.
er.. ok
That's the short version, at least
long version sounds interesting though :)
cops are insane
20:42
just scrolled thru imgur and ended on a gallery of wallpapers. 1000+ images: imgur.com/gallery/MaPad
what the fuck
@KarelG those are for tiny screens
:(

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