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20:00
Oh 17, you so silly.
17 ?
room #
i was thinking at Android 17 :|
we identify as #18 now
My mind is wrong atm.
20:01
how dare you identify me as a number. I'm clearly not alphanumeric you bastard.
triggered
The chat conversation links are broken.
how dare you identify as triggered
I'm actually a Danish pastry
@rlemon Can I lick your frosting off
20:02
@taco yes
@rlemon Are you the elusive illegal danish?
@MadaraUchiha chat conversations are broken. The routes are dead, or something.
Not sure what I expect you to do about it
@Cerbrus he's a trans-muslim danish
@Cerbrus he's a system made up of a sober dutchmen and a bottle of whiskey
Users that didn't get the joke: +2
20:03
I've finally propositioned somebody on the Internet the day Trump gets 1,237 delegates. Coincidence?
and by sober dutchman I mean a drunk
@taco I don't get the correlation
@ssube You mean russians?
@taco it was obviously a sign from great Xenu
Make America Pastry Again
20:05
@KarelG yes
@Cerbrus oh god no
trans-exual
on a side note, we have the worst bakeries. Trump needs to fix that
trainsexual
Selling cake with frosting does not make you a bakery
20:06
@ndugger it's probably a thing on tumblr
@tereško Don't google it
not even gonna
Trump got enough votes now if the news is right
@taco it makes you a grocery store
@KarelG that's actually not how USA primaries work, you for delegates, which then go to a convention and "vote on your behalf"
20:07
people sell "gourmet cupcakes" here. Throw some bacon on a cupcake and its suddenly gourmet
@KarelG to potentially compete in the final round, yes.
but the party can decide to not support him and use an other candidate?
yes
Ah, so Clinton can loose votes too?
nothing that's happened so far is binding
20:08
but then he can run independent
super delegates only pledged their votes.
final round for what? to be nominated as the republican candidate for the presidency?
they can switch
it's a popular selection for now, to ideally pick two potentials
the only binding part is the general election and the electoral college votes in Nov
that's not so democratic if you ask me
@KarelG no, each of the delegated can choose what to vote for (in most case after first round, but for some states - even in the first round)
20:09
or whenever that happens
@KarelG I agree.
@rlemon s/pledged/pinky-swear
@KarelG look up what a caucus is
And that country dares to claim to use democracy in other regions
@KarelG oil
20:10
for party nomination (dems at least) they still get everyone in a big room and whoever can yell louder wins
@KarelG ^
i recall the memes in imgur :P
we're an oilocracy, that's why our candidates are so slimy
who is our leader?
all I know is Trudeau is stirring some shit up -- which is nice because Canadian politics are boring
@KarelG "Idiocracy" was a documentary film
20:11
@ssube inverted totalitarianism is how some are calling it
CHULTLU IS OUR LEADER
^ Supreme Leader
@rlemon I already used the other thing
then you fail.
20:14
Having a weird behaviour with promise. I return a promise and then .spread it but I get a TypeError: blablabla(...).spread is not a function. However, I can .then it and the value that's returned is an array?????
Any insights?
must the content of spread not be an array?
@BadgerCat beautiful
Neat, weekly email digests
20:15
@ReX357 Promise.prototype.spread is not standard, you're probably not working with the implementation you expect
@BadgerCat I excpeted you to use the photoshopped versions
I like how you put the attractive pictures on the right and the poorly-framed ones on the left
Here's the weird thing... I can use .spread in other places in the same module with no issue!
ssube called me attractive :D
@ReX357 then you probably don't have a promise
20:16
ton.yeung I understand that. That's why I'm saying it's weird that I can call .then on it and get an array returned in the value but .spread is not there
@SterlingArcher you three took much better pictures than us three
the pictures on the right are slightly turning to the left
@SterlingArcher you have a face that is valuable enough for being a face model. I'm a straight man, but it has to be said that you have a nice and beautiful face.
@KarelG dude, it's the 2000s, you don't need to preface things with "no homo" anymore
the whole gender thing was so 1999
that's why i am saying that
20:18
ton.yeung: This is on node and I'm using bluebird and .spread is definitely there as I am using it in other places in the same file.
there is directly "homo" when a man compliments other man.
idgaf :)
@ReX357 something must be returning a promise that isn't using bluebird's implementation
Filip Dupanovic: I just had the same lightbulb go off in my head
@BadgerCat but who's that at most upper left pic ?
his mustache is from 19th century. Nice retro touch
20:20
lemon
@FilipDupanović
is that rlemon? No
@ReX357 you have to be careful when using non-standard promise instance methods
@FilipDupanović you can always wrap the promise in a real/bluebird promise
20:21
> No soup for you!
badPromise.then(result => Promise.resolve(result)).bluebirdMethodsYay
yeah, best do it explicitly somewhere
@BadgerCat but if you compare it to rlemon's current avatar? :|
@rlemon confirm it's you? ^
Could I switch all the promises in my file to bluebird promises like so: var Promise = require('bluebird');
20:26
@ReX357 that will only switch Promise in that module to bluebird :(
other libraries will still pick up the system promise variable
@ndugger Did you find out if that chick you were talking to went back to her boyfriend?
@BadgerCat somewhat
@ssube: global.Promise = require('bluebird'); ? 😂
@ReX357 something along those lines as the first command in the program
I don't know what I accidentally scp'd but this is not stopping :/
20:31
@rlemon ps -Af | grep scp
huh? looks like a blob store :D
from some other tab, see what args it ended up with
@FilipDupanović ohhh maybe
mongo?
also I know I forgot to omit node_modules :/ fuck this entire thing was a fail
none of those have paths, so they're in the working dir
pretty sure it was node_modules
none of those files are top level
20:33
mongo? I don't think so, they're only a few bytes
or maybe .git
I basically forgot to not upload a bunch of things :D
@rlemon Are you breaking out the welder this weekend?
@Megaplex Don't know, don't care.
20:35
that's actually part of why we package software before pushing it anywhere
@Megaplex mask is supposed to come tomorrow
then yes
it's hard to upload/install the wrong files when you have to ask for certain files and put them in an RPM
@ssube normally I do as well. this was a quick and dirty job
I regret everything
abort it then ? :P
I did
rsync has exclude options
@Josiah Awww how cute! the tire is pregnant!
20:41
@rlemon it also does file lists, which are great
that's for trying to climb the pedestrian road!
@rlemon what have you done
and more importantly how
@KendallFrey The inside of the tire is separating, causing that to happen.
I haven't seen a joke ruined so brutally in a long time.
Friend had that happen to his car. This guy looks like he probably added more air to accentuate it.
20:44
so I may have just created an account for jesus in our jira so I could assign something to him...
@ssube Jesus saves, Satan tests on production?
@Megaplex but if you leave the tire to rest, it will release a pus of cadmium and nitrogen and go back to normal
i would stab it
(i know the consequences ofc)
@Megaplex Jesus saves, Satan uses incremental backups.
@KendallFrey Jesus saves, Satan uses differential volume snapshots
20:47
@ssube I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
@Megaplex why?
snapshots are the best backups
@KendallFrey the last one. nice
@ssube Wrong ping, you come in before I could respond to Kendall's.
user1596138
@rlemon lol holy shit
20:53
@Josiah omg, that is an old entry.
@Megaplex you can edit your message (if you know that functionality)
@KarelG The edit time ran out before I could.
@SterlingArcher 😂 👌
Is performance likely to go down if I use Node.js with MySQL, as opposed to MongoDB?
21:04
@SvetanDimoff no
by the time you care about DB performance, you'll have more compelling reasons to choose one or the other
I love javascript, at the same time I believe my browser game will have a well defined schema
I don't need document oriented
if your data doesn't have a schema, you're probably doing something wrong elsewhere
It will have a well defined schema
Hence the MySQL consideration
if you're setting up a SQL database, I would suggest Postgres instead of MySQL
it's faster out of the box and much better about following the spec
mariadb is good, but actual mysql is pretty janky
Why is it so popular then?
21:08
it was the default database on linux for a while and oracle has marketed it heavily
@SterlingArcher The good news is the next morning they can have scrambled eggs if they don't like them hard boiled.
Ekn
Ekn
I recently saw this one: rethinkdb.com
I'm assuming they started Maria and Postgre out of fear Oracle might start charging for MySQL
21:09
most of the problems are also it being more lax than the spec requires (meaning your software won't work on other SQL databases and will run into consistency/performance problems), so noobs liked it for that
@SvetanDimoff Maria started because MySQL is kinda shitty
Postgres is a totally different DB, intended to be more strict, with the trade-off that it's also faster
Postgres also has a JSON store now which acts like Mongo with a schema
and is faster than Mongo at the same task
however, Postgres is much harder to shard and cluster than Mongo
but it is about a million times more performance in high-concurrency workloads
We're planning on building a browser game. Still haven't decided between MEAN and LAMP. I've heard positive stuff about Postgre as well
But I need to make sure it scales as well as Mongo
mongo barely scales
rough-to-the-point-of-meaningless-numbers, we've got ~2TB of data in mongo and it chokes around 1800 q/s. We have slightly less than that in MySQL and it chokes around 15k q/s. We've got much less than that in Cassandra and it chokes around 20k q/s.
those are just numbers, though
21:13
my postgres for our build tools, no tuning/right out of the box, can push a few hundred q/s with a ~20GB dataset
everything is just numbers
@FilipDupanović everything is just numbers
well, what I meant to say is that really depends on how your data is organized and what your querying for
it's organized poorly
the moral of the story, though, is that mongo is easy to cluster but doesn't actually scale well, even for small datasets (<1TB)
in some cases, MongoDB can be really good; in at least what I've seen, it's pretty good when your accessing data that's paged in memory
21:15
I understand it all depends on what you're building, but FB, Tumblr and many super popular online games like Forge of Empire and FarmVille run the LAMP stack. Uber, eBay, LinkedIn, New York Times on the other hand run Node.js
Can't decide
our MySQL schema is complicated enough that the engineers actually had us sent them the database (sans data) because they thought it was imposible to do that
it just depends on your needs
but it's still faster than mongo
@FilipDupanović that's not really the case
mongo is good when you have a lot of unstructured reads (on random fields) and very few writes
that's the only time it's performant, but Cassandra and friends still outperform it by 10x or better
mongo's write locking is broad and aggressive, which causes some fairly severe problems
Also, my game is likely to have unusually low read/write ration of circa 3:1. Is Mongo better for this specifically?
their map/reduce locks use a temp table, the locking for which can lock your entire cluster for minutes
21:17
and schema updates, let's not forget MongoDB keeps a schema
@SvetanDimoff how much data do you expect to have (megabytes, gigabytes, TB)?
But you said speed is my last concern
@SvetanDimoff yes and no. It will be a while until you have to really start caring about it, but mongo has a much lower absolute maximum than the others.
With Cassandra (and other massive, sharded databases) and SQL, you can improve your queries and indexes and make them faster.
it will choke if you read through the entire collection, because then it starts hitting the disk and performances poop
21:19
Let's say my initial database management system of choice should handle up to 40K people's requests. Can't comment on data volume numbers as of now. Wouldn't async requests handling be the right approach here?
You can't do either with mongo, in a meaningful way.
@SvetanDimoff everything is async
if you don't read outside what's paged in memory, it's pretty decent
If I go PHP, it's not
I meant thread based
unless all 40k will be hitting it at once, any of them will work
@FilipDupanović again, not the case.
I might need event based
21:20
One single thread can lock an entire mongo cluster.
@FilipDupanović that goes for every database, mongo just suffers from it worse, because the data files aren't as structured.
@SvetanDimoff if you need to store complex data, look into blog.codeship.com/unleash-the-power-of-storing-json-in-postgres. IF you want broad reporting, Cassandra and friends. Otherwise, any SQL database will do the trick.
Which one would you go for for a browser-based game, likely to have to scale fast and handle thousands of concurrent requests?
21:22
I would stay away from mongo, especially if you have a schema in mind already. It really won't gain you anything.
Think FarmVille
It will have a schema
anything can handle thousands of requests, that's not large-scale
what OS/cloud are you on?
yeah, just throw postgres on a few boxes
mysql/mariadb will work just as well, it will just encourage you to write sketchy code
Okay. So, it's a good idea to hook up NodeJS with Postgre?
Or rather adventurous ?
21:26
oh, for sure. You can make it super easy to use any SQL database by grabbing Knex
it will gloss over most of the small differences between DBs, so if it works on Postgres, it will probably work everywhere else
just remember that mysql will let you get away with stuff that is technically against the SQL spec, so test against Postgres or something more strict
I don't want hidden errors, that's for sure
also Knex will handle connection pooling for you, which is great
Notable companies that use Postgre?
21:28
most companies don't talk about what DB they use, though
@SvetanDimoff it doesn't matter; the protocols clients use have first-class support in Node.js and client implementations have been around long enough
@SvetanDimoff with either postgres or mysql, you can pay for enterprise support
you can also do that with mongo, but their response is typically "um, we never tested that feature, try not using it and writing your own"
also, bear in mind that alongside your database, you may want a fast key-value store
I have worked with Mongo, only on pet projects, though. No idea of it's behaviour on the enterprise scale
something like redis or memcached to hold sessions and the like
@SvetanDimoff it's garbage :,D
Have you ever been involved in a project where they used a hybrid?
I hear this is possible as well
Mongo/Relational
21:31
that's what we use here at work
@SvetanDimoff yes, there's lots of things you can mix
Percona MySQL for older relational stuff, Mongo for most of our data, moving to a Cassandra/Postgres hybrid
hmm, your on AWS, there's also DynamoDB if it can fit with your model
mongo has been nothing but problems
our data is pretty structured, so it fits in Postgres well for writes and Cassandra for later reporting
I don't know how to handle queries with Dynamo. What are the benefits? That it was designed especially for their cloud?
21:34
the stuff I personally manage (our build tools) run on one single tiny little postgres database (4 cores, 16 gigs)
it only has a few 10s of GB of data and I haven't done anything to tune it
@SvetanDimoff it's kind of like IndexedDB, I think
@SvetanDimoff the cloud databases are massively (100TB of data) scalable.
they're also crazy expensive
@BadgerCat What is the difference between let's say "usted es un hombre" and "ustedes son hombre"?
Cassandra is the structured equivalent and is kind of a pain to set up, but can scale indefinitely and handle 8-10k q/s/node
21:36
But Dynamo is NoSQL, still. And I do have a schema
so you just keep adding more nodes and you can scale forever
I'm getting slighty confused with that stuff, looks just like different style, but is it wrong in some forms to use one over the other?
@jAndy Sie ist ein Mann / Sie sind Männer
postgres is easy to set up and will last you a while
@SvetanDimoff NoSQL does not imply schemaless
21:37
@BadgerCat Google übersetzt beides als "Sie sind ein Mann"
and the second one should be hombres
Google sux?
ustedes son hombre is wrong, should be hombres
ustedes son hombres = Sie sind Männer, no?
21:37
@FilipDupanović Okay, provided a schema, why would I even consider NoSQL then?
but "ustedes son hombre" = "Sie sind ein Mann"
or is that wrong
Yeah, that's what I meant
Sie as in singular formal you
@SvetanDimoff SQL implies you have a relational data model... a collection of finite well-ordered lists
I was just wondering if that is exactly the same and can be used in any form anywhere or if there is a true difference
@FilipDupanović In an online browser game, I don't see anything breaking a well established model and schema. Nothing surprising on the run, really
21:39
NoSQL implies... that you do not have a collection of well-ordered lists and suddenly your world shatters
@jAndy it's just like in German but usted is singular and ustedes plural
I'm just crinching about forms.... vosotros, nosotros, usted, ustedes, etc. etc. pp and the different grammatics on following word endings on each
but I'm getting there!
How are you learning? Duolingo?
@SvetanDimoff can you get access to expert talent?
Ekn
Ekn
vosotros.. that's something I never hear here in sudamerica
21:46
@FilipDupanović Nope
@Ekn right
Ekn
Ekn
is it common outside?
I heard it a lot in Spain
Ekn
Ekn
ustedes would be more common I guess
right, there possible
@Ekn omg let's be besties
Ekn
Ekn
21:56
err, how does that work? :p
@BadgerCat yes! it's really great I think, good concept

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