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21:00
@K.Gkinis gulp makes fewer temp files than grunt. That's the big difference. Both work with npm, neither replace it.
@towc no way, neither of those is right.
enlighten me
@towc wouldn't there be even more to learn because some of the old tech fell out of use? starting to learn things now, you don't have to learn the tech that didn't catch on.
@ssube yes, but people use npm to run scripts, that do the same thing as grunt/gulp
@towc name the "branches" of tech graphics
@K.Gkinis many people use npm to run grunt or gulp
@NathanJones understanding why some things were worse than others is definitely helpful, and certainly interesting
21:02
@ssube So you think that I should not worry too much about it and go with whatever?
@ssube maybe you learn the logics behind animations, or just something like webgl, or you understand machine code to draw a pixel on a screen and the quirknesses of that. Now it's extremely rare that someone knows all 3 of them
or like how webgl is compiled to machine code
webgl is compiled to php
@K.Gkinis you need a package manager, which npm is good at. You need a build script, which grunt or gulp both do.
@ndugger obviously, sorry
@towc those aren't different things, though
21:02
@ssube tyvm!
@ssube I'm decent at logics behind animations for example, but I don't understand jack shit about the rest. There are some people really good with openGL but don't quite understand a lot of other principles, and there are even people who know really well how to manipulate pixels at machine code level, but not at higher levels
@towc there's no difference between knowing how an animation is made of vertexes which OpenGL draws through the driver functions and how JS handles objects and GC. It's all just a thin layer of abstraction.
If you're anything like good at what you do, you know most of the layers through that, especially in graphics where they're so similar.
still, it seems impossible for anyone to know all of that and be considered to really know graphics, while it wasn't the case back then
An animation is set a set of matrices applied to a vertex buffer, a vertex buffer is passed to the driver, the driver does stuff, etc
Graphics isn't complicated.
I used to have a short series of talks that explained almost everything there is, not sure where they went
@ssube would you be able to do what the guys at scene.org do in the way they do it?
probably not, right?
well, either in the way they do it or more efficiently
21:06
not as well
I have played around with the demo libraries and written graphics stuff in ASM before
for me what happens behind the grid of pixels the canvas gives me is just like a black box
once you're at the driver call level, everything actually behaves the same way
it's all geometry with a shader to a texture, every single piece of it
ooook
@towc the simple version you'll see in browsers is roughly: en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cg_Programming/…
TIL why the sky is blue but clouds are white
21:13
but once you realize that the "screen" is just a rectangle (4 vertexes) projected to fill the screen with a texture (and shader) applied, you can start applying multi-pass effects and working with offline effects
and there are so many things I want to learn anyway 0.o Graphics is definitely one of them but uuuuuurghhhhh too many things
the "canvas" isn't real, it's just a rectangle
Blah, can't get a signal worth a damn -_-
I think I'll just try to be a normal teen interested in teeny stuff for now
Stupid secure building
21:16
@SterlingArcher so if you give a damn you receive more than a signal? That sounds awesome :D
It's a real shame I can't give anything
I'm hollow on the inside
@towc you can enjoy crazy graphics demos and normal stuff like sex and drinking.
signal < damn → signal = x * damn, 0 < x < 1 → damn = x * signal, x > 1
you just go to raves :D
there's a reason for my madness
Dude he's like 13 ._.
user1596138
21:18
He's 17 now
user1596138
Aren't you @towc?
16*
user1596138
Close enough
Man I hope that's not your policy on women
you know it is
user1596138
21:19
I would've gone to a rave at 16 if I had the chance. But I was lame asf. My little sister was getting in trouble for doing drugs and going to parties before I had even had a beer...
If they're old enough to climb up into a truck, they're old enough for @jhawins
2
!!urban rave
@towc [Rave](http://rave.urbanup.com/158201) 1) n. any gathering of people centered around listening to and dancing to electronic music, as played by a set of live djs. Originated in 1989 in the UK as underground, often illegal gatherings in abandoned warehouses. Often characterized by the positive, psychedelic atmosphere, influnced often (but not always) by drugs and casual sex.

2) v. to dance in a style characteristic of dancers at raves, synonymous with fluid, liquid
user1596138
!!> 21 / 2 + 7
21:19
@jhawins 17.5
!!> 24 / 7 + 2
@SterlingArcher 5.428571428571429
user1596138
If they are 17 and a half they are old enough for Jhawins.
user1596138
@SterlingArcher You did the pedo version
2
@SterlingArcher doooood
21:20
Lurn u sum maths, nerd
Once you're 21, you realize it's not worth dating 18-20 because you can't take them anywhere
user1596138
@SterlingArcher That's a sad statement :/
user1596138
That means your life revolves around alcohol..
More or less yeah
@SterlingArcher you can always sneak them in places
user1596138
21:22
lmao
user1596138
I am averaging about a beer a month.
ugh have you met any 18 years olds these days?
I am averaging about a beer an hour
user1596138
Tasha is 18 and she's cool asf
@phenomnomnominal they're so annoying
user1596138
21:23
But yeah 99.999% of 18 year olds are not someone I want to hang with..
Fresh adults who think they're hot shit
@phenomnomnominal not a huge fan, yeah
user1596138
They bitch about hilarious problems
Bitch, don't talk to me until you have a company matched 401kthxbai
my work doesn't match, but it's not like I'm going to live to retirement anyway
21:25
Dibs on your 401k
Put me in your will and I will send you off viking style with your squid hats
user1596138
> My wife like to...... Not follow what the fuck the GPS says to do
nah, I'm leaving a small chunk of that to an ex (or a few) and have a lawyer show up and tell them that I left them because I know I had [reason for dying] and my last wish was that they had the money
user1596138
lol hearing conversations in the hall
21:26
really fuck with them
> And the last item on Jordan's will is his prized Falcon, Ron Jeremy.
> Oh fuck, he had a Falcon? Shit we lsot the falcon
I don't know how to react to that
@SterlingArcher maybe. My roommate can probably also take care of that.
Just let it wash over you. You'll know.
@SterlingArcher the R. Kelly method of learning
21:28
oh my god
maybe you never find out, but that's realistic, having a cliffhanga like that
CLIFFHANGAAAAA
My will will be a self-destructing letter to @rlemon asking him to delete my browser history.
@SterlingArcher Incognito, yo
yarly
Nono, for the last year of my life, there will be no incognito
21:33
go on
I'm talking lights on, blinds open browser history.
anybody in here ever use fixed-data-table for react?
Nay, sorry
mk
@KendallFrey cause clouds are made of sugar, you stoopid
21:34
There are a few react folks here, I think
k, hopefully somebody will bite
cells aren't showing up
they're there... just not visible
@Neoares sweet
do you know what's making them not visible?
Anything on the element inspection?
Is there CSS or something?
Bad HTML not rendering?
something about backface-visibility
never heard of that property
21:36
if the html is in the dom, that kinda pushes the problem from react to css, unless react is incorrectly (or unexpectedly) adding some particular class
if I remove the css it's fine, but I'm just using the default css from cdnjs
well, not fine... it's ugly, but it's there (if I remove the css)
Weird, it's not tied to a css file in the element inspector -- it's just inline on the div
huh... if I set the width to an explicit value rather than a percentage... I see the fields
the absolute position is what's causing it to not display... the visibility doesn't seem to affect it.
21:38
ah, hmm
It's experimental, I don't even think my browser renders it
trying something...
the parent is relative with overflow hidden
looks like it doesn't like percent widths
which is not perfect...
CSS is a tricky mistress
21:40
you'd think...
as popular as this thing is, they'd target responsive design
like, first thing
I must be missing something
heh
!!> Object.is(0, -0);
@SterlingArcher false
So, I get this, but I still don't get this
21:48
+0 !== -0
How can positive and negative zero be different
0x80000000 !== 0x00000000
floats are sign, exponent, mantissa (or s, m, e). The exponent and mantissa can both be 0 (0^0) with either sign.
So while they both == 0, because of that -, it's a different bit?
21:51
the highest bit is the number's sign, for floats and ints (on little-endian systems, iirc)
Ah, so that's literally the only difference between the 2?
just that bit being set or not, yeah
wow
So at a triple === level, it's just checking to see if the bitwise values are the same?
I expect the IEEE standard for floats says they aren't equal
but typically yes, it's just a 32-bit or 64-bit register comparison
that's why comparison with some wiggle room is so important
Never knew that. Kewl stuff
21:57
fun fact: one IEEE floating-point number greater than another will also be greater when interpreted as a two's complement integer, i.e. comparison is preserved
which I imagine was done so they could reuse the comparisons on the chip
equality is the same way, no?
not quite
0 = -0
by definition
is that the only exception?
also, NaN != NaN
screw Nan
0x7FC00000 ain't never made me cookies
21:59
Funner fact: there is more than one representation of NaN
computers are so fucked up
plus that whole subnormal thing that just tanks performance
you guys know how to load external css in tampermonkey or greasemonkey?
Trying this but doesn't seem to work
22:17
are the CSS files in the same script bundle thingy or separate?
!!afk Murder
@ssube it's a local file, separate.
@shriek you went through the whole @ resource thing they discuss?
@ssube I think I'm going to see Korn, Rob Zombie and In This Moment soon
That should be a crazy good concert
@SterlingArcher are you taking a time machine?!
:P
22:22
@SterlingArcher :(
Yeah. Network tab doesn't show that file being requested.
@SterlingArcher and to think I used to love you.
@Loktar nooooo :( I would give anything to see old Korn live
Still checking.
hah yea
22:23
I'm mainly going for Rob Zombie and ITM
@SterlingArcher well, you're giving your dignity to see them, either way
luckily you don't have a high school to shoot up
Do you not like Robby Z?
omg
Jesus, did you actually just call him Robby Z?
22:23
YES I DID KIWI
I mean, Rob Zombie and ITM are better than Disturbed and Drowning Pool, which are better than Korn and Hollywood Undead, I guess
but like, it's comparing lead paint to toxic waste
I may lick a lot of stupid shit, but I'll never touch those.
And here I thought I loved you
It's like comparing a shit I did yesterday to a shit I did a week ago.
They're the toxic waste left in the bottom of the barrel after Godzilla got to the edible stuff.
but congrats on going to a show :P
How can you not like Disturbed and Drowning Pool omg!?
Next you're going to say you hate Static-X and Tool as well
22:26
they're all about hating things by yourself and killing everybody around you
I hate all of those bands
I hate plenty of tech stuff, but when it comes to shows, I'm all about the love and unity
I don't know the bands, but i like the music
@ssube although this is just naive
everybody loves tool
22:27
@Shane incorrect.
@phenomnomnominal their lyrics suggest otherwise
I listened to all of those bands back when I was a creepy kid, wearing cargo pants and not cutting my hair
so did I
now I want to go to shows were I can hug people
The only band I hate with every fiber in my body is Coal Chamber
I'm more into house these days, not a fan of lyrics in general
22:28
I don't hate those bands, they're just scary and not fun
@ssube the friendliest pits are always at the angriest bands
I don't think tool is scary, I think some of their fans are
@phenomnomnominal or, yknow, the shows I go to
Except Lamb of God. If you don't fight, you die
@ssube get into the rave scene maybe? :P
22:28
where it's not a pit, just all the people jumping together
@nderscore do you even go here?
that's like half of what I talk about on any given day
punk shows are more fun than metal shows any day
@ssube I'm all about idling and randomly jumping into conversations with no context
The only punk show I'd go to is 2006 AFI
so, not a punk show?
@nderscore I went to a rave this weekend where I met this girl with purple hair and a full sleeve in line, she bought me a shot and we danced for a while until she spun me around and I got lost, then I went out to the balcony and compared piercings with some topless folks, then went back in and danced for like 3 hours straight, and woke up the next day sore in the calves and covered in paint.
the parts in between are kind of blurry
22:31
Sounds like a good roll :P
har
was her name molly?
nah, real person
been too long for me, probably not in the cards anymore... sigh
I don't do drugs â„¢
and you shouldn'tâ„¢
22:32
I've grown to dislike any live music event that doesn't involve sitting.
but if anybody is ever in the Twin Cities, hit me up and we'll go to a rave
what is drugs
if anybody's ever in toronto, hit me up and we can change some diapers and listen to screaming
If anyone's ever in NZ, don't hit me up.
If anyone's in NYC, hit me up and we'll play N64.
22:36
If anyone's ever in the UK, tough luck mate
gtfo of VA
Canada, eh
@SterlingArcher - facebook.github.io/fixed-data-table/example-flexgrow.html I knew they had to cover fluid widths
not that you've been stewing over this or anything, but I found it pretty weird
@MadaraUchiha book him in linkedin.com/pulse/…
cc @Shog9 ^ dude writing tips on how to trick StackOverflow
22:57
Nginx configuration is just absurd
So I am building a web application which handles a lot of REST API calls. I'm looking at either an Angular/Polymer/MVC design pattern or a React/Flux/Flux design pattern. It feels that the Flux design pattern is more effective when developing for applications with a lot of network activity. Anyone care to spare their thoughts on this?
@copy I prefer it to Apache :/
Though you should totally check out caddyserver.com
> Serve The Web Like It's 2016
Yeah, no
Bullshit detector 8.5/10
> Caddy supports HTTP/2, IPv6, Markdown, WebSockets, FastCGI, templates and more, right out of the box.
... markdown?
23:01
@FlorianMargaine It's a weird one, but yes
crl
crl
@copy ah I'm not alone then
reddit.com/r/shittyrobots is my new favourite thing
@JosephMCasey I don't think either is necessarily better at handling a lot of api calls, but flux wins out imo as the structure of your app gets more and more complicated
But if you're building something that needs to handle a lot of connections, look into using Phoenix on the backend
@JosephMCasey GraphQL can help with complex entity relationships as well
Angular/Polymer/MVC Haven't seen that design pattern yet.
23:08
I think he just means mvc frameworks in general
And isn't super familiar with polymer
@Loktar MMVVCC is great. you should try it in your next project.
lol
@Meredith I guess that makes sense
I would love to use Polymer in production actually.
@NathanJones What's that, like 2210?
crl
crl
more like last century tho
can i get some recommendations on a good place to host software design/architecture docs?
can a github wiki work?
23:27
@Loktar +1
@phenomnomnominal 2180*
@copy wonderful
Now i can play my favorite games in browser!
user3119231
o/
@copy slow much :P
23:35
@phenomnomnominal a realistic rapresentation of a product by microsoft, a firm promise
"We shall bring you shitty software that works really really slowly and causes headaches to developers for the rest of eternity" - Bill Gate, probably high
@phenomnomnominal Blame JavaScript
crl
crl
@copy on chrome some problems with 2 mouse pointers
@crl were you even born in 1998?
@crl press "lock mouse"
@copy wow super nice
user3119231
23:38
at least css sucks because you can't do a "class" in a "class" to prevent complete selection.
what a time to be alive. I can run Windows 98 on my smartphone.
When Web Assembly gets released I'll write a jit
@copy tried XP ?
@copy can you run multiple VMs in a single window? or is there a way to have some sort of networking?
@FlorianMargaine Yeah
@Abhishrek Yeah, needs some hardware I haven't implemented yet
23:46
@copy yes to which? :)
@FlorianMargaine Both
@copy how smokes dude!
@copy networking is only within a single window though, right?
and can't access outside?
do you have some api to define physical networking of the VMs?
@FlorianMargaine No, it can access the outside
user986408
23:48
i'm using gulp-angular from yeoman, gulp is automatically injecting my bower dependencies and thus injecting moment.js but i need it to inject moment-with-locales.js - any ideas how to change that without manually adding a second clone of moment?
@FlorianMargaine A proxy using websockets
I mean, browsers don't have a TCP api
@copy ah, so you have to install something locally
fair enough
I could see applications if you could define physical networking between multiple VMs in a single browser window
pretty sure it's a huge undertake though, don't bother with it.
@FlorianMargaine It's actually relatively easy
I'll build a demo of that some time
user986408
23:52
turns out changing the main file in the bower.js works.
Basically take this, both of them should have an event for when the OS writes to the network and connect that to the other instance

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