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20:00
wtf humans
you're pathetic
@KendallFrey you see the oculus news
for Kickstarter backers?
no
I'm not one
@Frondor use tags, or npm, or whatever
mofos get a free headset!
@tymeJV Yeah because they are in the for loop but after the loop newLi is <li>Array</li>
20:01
is it important
a FREE HEADSET
Kind of important depending how you look at it
@Loktar That's how kickstarter usually works
eff? blackbeard's routing isn't even working right now... I didn't change it... something is weird
@KendallFrey no no no
for a dev kit
@Loktar yea but they paid $300 already
20:01
is this all backers?
No guys yeesh
what's the minimum
KS backers already got a headset years ago
no it's just the ones that ordered the dev kit
@Poteito -- well yeah - you declare var newLi each loop... declare it outside the loop and append
20:02
3 years ago
so... a bonus
They were always promised some gift once the consumer vs was ready
no one knew what it was
so they're really nice to their backers. anything else?
their gift, is a free no strings attached Consumer Version headset for being early supporters
@KendallFrey well, it means the ecosystem is automatically that much larger
most of those people are streamers and dev's
20:03
@Loktar did you see Drowning Pool released a new song?
@Failsafe I wouldnt say all 17,000 or so are :p
@tymeJV If I do so it writes all the array content in 1 li tag
@Loktar oh i suppose that's not a bad thing
@KendallFrey in case you were thinking about the vive
Not 17k, about 9.5k
20:03
@Loktar I wasn't, why
@Poteito you want to have a new variable every time, the same name as the old variable, but you don't want to overwrite the variable?
@SterlingArcher Drowning Pool's new single: Let The Students Hit The Floor?
you know how this programming thing works right?
:P
@Failsafe ok 9,522 :p
20:04
If you want 4 individual li elements - create an array outside the loop, create your li element, then push to the array each iteration
!!youtube drowning pool by the blood
@rlemon Yes like when you use innerHTML
@Failsafe they still aren't mostly streamers or devs, enthusiasts is a better word
innerHTML is terrible :D
20:04
@SterlingArcher p.sure listening to them puts you on a watchlist
@Loktar yea i guess
@KendallFrey ah a lot of people are
sounds like you're trying to force an antipattern to work
they are "Team Valve"
which is silly imo
no
gaben christ
20:05
ew, source isn't responsive at all.
@rlemon But do you understand what I want to achieve ? :P
Maybe I should add a css lib
I did not hear that yet @SterlingArcher ty
Hey guys. Just wondering, how do you differentiate bool properties and bool functions?
I tend to call them isSomething but it can get confusing.
@Poteito you want an array of li elements with that text content
20:06
@Loktar welcome
@SterlingArcher start with bootstrap and add a theme, then ignore it until the end
I was thinking pure.css
@KendallFrey which Video card did you go with?
it will give you enough design/responsive to get work done and look ok, then you can do the detailed design later
good enough for the rift at least right?
20:07
@rlemon Yeah and then to append that array to my target destination
n^0 = ∞
@Loktar of course
good
@Poteito well you can't append arrays of nodes to the DOM
GTX 970 I decided
20:07
you can use a documentFragment to do that
god dangit @KendallFrey :p
I don't really need more
@Loktar what?
yeah but the 970 lacks DX12 support
should have went AMD, 390 silly!
Well, shit. My router was broken because of a stupid else clause that I put in
haha kind of joking, 970 is still a fine card :p
20:08
I already told you, I wasn't looking at AMD
Why?
You never told me that iirc
Ok to be serious the 970 will choke above 1080 in many games and lacks DX12 support and is more $$ than the 390
it was a poor decision
AMD is notorious for driver issues
@Shmiddty AMD < 2005
AMD is generally the less popular brand
and I wanted stability
user1596138
@Loktar what? It supports DX12
20:09
@KendallFrey this round has been changing
user1596138
Says Nvidia
@Jhawins there is DX12 support, much of it emulated
user1596138
Oh
user1596138
What's the diff
20:10
hardware is faster than software
I hope I can get CUDA to work on this PC
my laptop had unknown issues with it
@rlemon Btw why is innerHTML terrible ?
@Poteito it's not. It's just very often misused
@Shmiddty Can you make an example ?
user1596138
GTX 1000 ftw lol
20:11
of what?
My last nvidia was a ti4200
great card
Of when it's misused
user1596138
I've owned 2 computers. One with a pentium 4 and my current one lol
Look at that... a 290x on par with a 980ti in DX12
a 290x cost like $330..
user1596138
20:13
Why the perf gains on AMD and losses on nvidia?
user1596138
That doesn't make sense
980ti.... $650 or so
user1596138
I'd just keep DX11 lmao
AMD playing the long con, I see
@Jhawins because of DX12 like I said software emulation
20:13
@Jhawins What?
It's not a choice rofl
user1596138
Sure is choice lol
user1596138
On plenty of games
Well I guess some games let you run a specific dx version
my point is it's crazy to fanboy really, if a card is good get it
DX12 opens it up even more so with asynchronous compute
a few games offer a choice of DX version when they start up
usually AAA titles that released just after a new OS
user1596138
20:14
That's astounding to me. Why would the newest version of DX be performing worse on the same cards?
@ssube yeah but DX12 is a game changer
it's not common, though
@Jhawins because the cards don't fully support it
@Loktar How many dx12 games are out there again?
@Loktar sure it is. 10 was just as big an overhaul.
so was 9, and 6, and 4...
20:15
Are there games running dx12 ?
user1596138
Because of hardware limitations?
user1596138
Or drivers.
@ssube eh DX12 is quite a bit different
DirectX, DirectX never changes...
check out things like asynchronous compute
20:15
@Loktar every 2-3 versions there's a bunch of big changes
that's their release schedule
its very similar to mantle/vulcan
(Mantle also an AMD tech)
user1596138
What engine was being used too
user1596138
Ugh so much text in this article lol
@Poteito because (imo) HTML strings have no place in JavaScript
@Jhawins its the same on 3dmark 12 even
3dmark shows amd with huge gains over nvidia with dx12
20:17
engine doesn't really matter, unless bethesda touched it :P
granted this is because the 9xx gen is getting older
@Poteito anyways, I re-wrote your code for you. it does use unsupported shit so you'll have to pick it apart and re-write it yourself.
I'm sure Nvidia will do better with the next series
function addList(parent, content) {
  let targets = [...document.querySelectorAll(`[name=${parent}]`)];
	let df = document.createDocumentFragment();
	content.forEach(textContent=>{
  	let node = document.createElement('li');
		node.textContent = textContent;
		df.appendChild(node);
  });
	targets.forEach(node=>node.appendChild(df.cloneNode(true)));
}
user1596138
And the AMD shit is already benefiting from some of the things Pascal is bringing
user1596138
20:17
Nvidia is just behind in the game right now
Let's say I have an image gallery system with upload and delete feature. now coming to alternatives for the data transport. After every upload operation request sent from the frontend, the backend sends updated data JSON to frontend and then in callback response of POST request the $scope is updated
AMD is using HBM already
user1596138
Ig. Not that I would have a damn clue!
@rlemon Thx man :)
on the furys
user1596138
20:18
Yea that one
Method - 2 refresh the whole $scope again in callback section
which one shall I choose
should*
@Poteito now you can figure out what this does and learn some new es6 stuff at the same time!
win/win
the 970 also has that 3.5 issue which in 1080 you wont hit
but above 1080 (like maybe with the rift...) you have a chance of envoking
@rlemon I might be to retarded to learn that on my own
user1596138
I don't even get to bitch about my card. Cause it is running the temperature throttle the whole time so Idk what it's actually capable of
20:19
I always find it funny though when people like you guys support Nvidia, because Nvidia is closed and evil as hell
whereas AMD is open and does a ton for the FOSS community
have you seen me supporting nvidia?
@Poteito won't know until you try
@FlorianMargaine sorry didn't mean to generalize, I just mean programmers who often hate Windows/MS for the same reasons :p
user1596138
Psh show me a nice AMD gaming laptop lol
@rlemon Well I struggle a lot in programming, any ways thx again
user1596138
20:20
That's the only reason I have it.
@Loktar you'd be sadder if you saw their code
@Jhawins what do you need gaming for
programming is funnier than games
user1596138
Umm for games, sir.
they're actually helping the FOSS community tremendously by not releasing their code
cause it's real bad
(or, yknow, was years ago)
@Jhawins an m300 series would be fine
@ssube haha
user1596138
20:21
But where
but come on guys Vulcan will save us
and its because of AMD :p
user1596138
There's not a nice gaming laptop chassis filled with AMD hardware that I found
so would DX10 and OGL4 and DX9 and OGL3 and DX6 and...
@Loktar .\\//
none of them are as drastic as people claim
20:22
I can't believe this works $('ul li:not(:nth-child(1)):not(:nth-child(2))')
I find it odd that people get mad at companies for being closed source; like guys... come on... I mean, I open source all of my personal projects, but it's my right to not if I don't want to.
@ssube man.. you should run teh benchmarks
in fact, there's a 90% chance that by the time you start using NewAPI, your card has been emulating OldAPI into NewAPI for 3-4 years
seeing it is drastic
3dmark 10 shows such a difference with mantle and dx12 vs 11 it is really crazy
20:23
I'm just not excited cause I've seen it before, a few times now
the changes are good, but it's just another incremental update
user1596138
lol I don't know a whole lot on the subject but @Loktar is right. The difference is drastic.
You see TONS of charts like that
showing it's magnitudes better it is crazy
that's draw calls, not pixels out the pipe
I have never been excited for a DX vs before haha
20:24
we had the same difference when switching from immediate mode to buffers
like, it's gonna be good
heh what else has allowed you to combine any GPU?
some of it's been a long time coming
You can throw in any nvidia and AMD gpu and it just works
idk man, the new stuff is really exciting
sorry I'm fanboying about new tech :p
I'm equally excited for Vulcan
definitely good times ahead
I felt the same way when DX10/11 came out
hell, even 9 was a big improvement over 8
yeah 9 was pretty great
but you didn't see these kind of benchmarks
20:26
the big huge changes came between 6-9 and OGL1-3, this stuff is small in comparison
Hello!
I had an idea but I'm really failing to implement it
@Loktar folks didn't benchmark much back then
but you did see similar metrics
@ssube I beg to differ... as an owner of 3dmark99...
especially immediate to VBO, it was huge
I used to benchmark my voodoo3's
20:27
Vulkan*
for vertex-heavy apps, you were seeing 50-1000x perf
then batching came and that went up again
@Shmiddty shit you're right. I'm excited about a Startrek race it seems :p
How can I zoom in and use only part of the canvas... let's say, a quarter of it, or 1/16 of it, so I can increase the performance while being ok with pixellish graphics?
programmable pipelines were and for the next decade will be the biggest improvement in graphics
life before shaders was a bitch
@AlexMitan you can use css sizing to stretch the visible canvas
20:28
Is that a thing I can do? I feel like rendering pixels per se is what takes a bunch of performance away, and I'm fine with pixelation as long as it's crisp
ok, but will it keep my coordonates okay?
you can also have two canvases, and copy part of the image data from one to the other
@AlexMitan the canvas doesn't know it's been changed
but blitting from the full canvas to a viewport could be faster
certainly easier to control (probably not faster)
Ok, how do I do that? What's blitting?
copy rect
user1596138
@ssube Folks didn't benchmark much when?? Didn't they overclock, benchmark, melt, buy hardware, repeat?
20:30
Ok, but the canvas is still rendering, is it really faster?
I feel like I could, instead of rendering 1000 pixels, only render 250
@AlexMitan copy pixels is super fast
Is that how it can work?
Stretching it with CSS will "probably" be faster
it's obviously the most fastest to render only what you need
20:30
but if you have the whole thing ready, copying a rect is fast
manipulating the image data directly is generally the fastest approach, or drawImage from one canvas to the others context
I like this PureCss.io
Very clean classes
@SterlingArcher \o/
did I show you pure?
I've been using it for years
You did :D
\o/
20:31
I would personally use drawImage as well
I want to keep the libs tiny. Bootstrap is a bit cloggy for what I need
@ssube I need to render everything per frame in a game..
@AlexMitan what kind of game?
Should I just switch to phaser or something?
@AlexMitan here is an old example
20:32
you probably want culling, which you can do yourself pretty easily
but a scenegraph would help
Check out the size of the rendered canvas (takes a second to load)
I'm mostly just playing around with developing, making some basic algorithms, here's what I have for now
then look at the implementation there
that code is seriously old.. like 2009. But as you see no perf hit
20:33
use bounds culling and a quadtree when that eventually fails you
@rlemon do I want my "node_modules" tracked in git?
@SterlingArcher hell no
makes your repo huge
@SterlingArcher noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
And that is just using drawImage @AlexMitan
@SterlingArcher no
20:33
fuck
How do I fix this then?
gitignore
then commit again
echo "node_modules" > .gitignore
I did, but I don't think I did it right
.gitignore
node_modules
npm-debug.log
git add --all . && git commit -m "Removing node modules."
you might have to delete it with git rm
is --all and -A the same?
20:34
since it's already tracked and now invisible
@rlemon yes
@Loktar What is the code supposed to be doing?
wait, your gitignore is ignoring your gitignore file?
@AlexMitan it caches the rotation of a sprite
@ndugger metanoir
20:35
a while back realtime rotation with canvas was slow
metanoir?
so it makes a GIANT image of all the rotations
I thought that was how I had to begin the gitignore file
meta ignore
then just draws the portions it needs (in the 2nd link)
20:36
metanore
metanoir
@SterlingArcher nope
okay, can I see it in action somewhere?
@ssube metablack
Why is it that bathroom stalls and their walls are never located in a good position? It's like universal. Always have a gap off the wall, they're always too high off the ground, they're never tall enough, gaps in the door, etc.
again really old code, 2009 or 10 :p
user1596138
@Loktar lol all of the zombies just sorta become one entity
@Jhawins yea no collisions or anything
that was when I was just starting out with canvas
just seeing how far I could push it
user1596138
20:37
2009?
user1596138
I was like 15
yeah around then
I was 23
user1596138
I was probably busy shovling llama shit and not programming yet lol
@Jhawins 2010 actually
wait shit.. maybe it was 2009
20:38
Fixed it, thanks guys :)
there is a game I was making in 2010 after the zombie thing
my first canvas project :p
Hah, ok, sweet, but it runs a bit slow for me, the first one, the rottest
heh back when I could only test in FF and resources were scarce
user1596138
Somebody remake Moon Patrol but make it awesome
@AlexMitan oh that is due to the generation of the sprite the code is crazy old and could be improved
bleh I need a job doing canvas stuff, I enjoy it
never get to use it professionally
20:40
Games?
Nothing like a clean repo
eh, I don't have the math background
user1596138
@Loktar Let's talk to the business about becoming one of those random appstore game studios
There is not much use for canvas besides multimedia
plus I think making games professionally would kill some of the fun of making games :P
20:41
TIL im horrible with git and server configs
@KarelG yea that's the main issue haha
like games / videos / image slideshows ...
need a job making demos all day, that would be the life
Haha, I have a job using canvas :)
What can you make games in using JS then?
20:41
simulation
@Loktar +1
I know @rlemon and @towc would agree
@SterlingArcher you didn't know it yesterday?
@Jhawins that's my current money making plan
@AlexMitan you can totally use canvas, or webgl
user1596138
20:42
lol @Loktar you me and Alex all just walk out together and start a game studio. Except I won't belong because I can't get myself to focus on that ever
@FlorianMargaine touche
haha @Jhawins
@AlexMitan check for CodeSpells on steam. It uses Js
then we walk back poor! :p
finishing up the concept for a game that will be fun on browsers and have a spot or two for micropayments on mobile
20:42
there are quite a few games on steam using JS now
honestly, I think half of us could make a lot of money consulting.
or look for unreal engine using asm.js
user1596138
@Loktar And ask or higher salaries lol
too bad consulting makes me drink.
throw it out, get some free money
20:42
lots of Nodewebkit games
@Jhawins And me because I'm a total noob and I'm ripping off Ringrunner's control scheme
user1596138
Hey it's Alex ^
@rlemon and drinking makes you..?
user1596138
Hahahaha
@SterlingArcher gassy
20:43
@AlexMitan pretty much any game you see online which is not flash (=modern) is done in JS. Find one and pick it apart ;)
That's an already-made game :P
But it's on my wishlist still
@towc Ok, but what support or etc can I use? I heard Phaser's good
i'm just saying that you can make games in js
@towc eh to be fair Flash games in general seem to be of a higher quality
@AlexMitan there's a ton
@KarelG you could always make games in js
20:44
@AlexMitan I'd reccomend you don't use any libraries in the beginning ;)
DOM games were a thing
DHTML FTW!
@towc stop using ";)"
@towc using a scenegraph to make a game is just responsible
user1596138
@towc Picking apart obfuscated JS in game portals sounds soooooo fun....
20:44
seriously
DHTML lemmings
well ... if you compare it with canvas ... canvas is superior
@FlorianMargaine ;)
not using a scenegraph when building an actual game is a pretty poor choice
and if you compare 2d canvas with webgl, webgl is FAR superior
20:44
^
GameDevTycoon is a web-based game too
you don't want to handle all the rotation and bounds math by yourself
it's a) a pain and b) a waste of time
@JacqueGoupil fun to hack as well
@Jhawins fair enough...
that's like writing your own canvas
user1596138
20:45
@towc NO libraries? Because you should do everything yourself? This is terrible advice buddy.
@Jhawins to understand how Canvas API works? I agree with him
If you want to make a game use an engine, if you want to make an engine go vanilla :p
first few demos should be vanilla
@Loktar exactly
@Jhawins He means while you're learning
20:45
@rlemon not everone needs to know how an engine works to get a sweet paintjob on their car
@Loktar nope, but everyone should know enough to change their oil or fix a flat
@towc write something with some scale, more than just a demo, while rolling your own graph and then see if you agree with that advice again
because now we have bunch of noobs running around, squirting their jquery juices all over my brand new shoes, and they don't know how to clean up after themselves
I never find an engine that suits my taste so I end up never making games - because I never finish the engine x)
@Jhawins I think that if you're trying to learn how to make canvas games it's better to see what's it about from the beginning so you're not scared of it later
user1596138
20:46
@rlemon Canvas API = changing a cam shaft, not changing oil
Look how succesful vlambeer.com is
@rlemon you should know how canvas works, but still use an engine. There's a lot of complexity.
they use gamemaker
@ssube yea I'm not saying don't
user1596138
@towc Eh, I bet a lot get scared off because they tried it that way
20:46
I have this as I've linked it before, decent as a first step right
I don't know how to change my oil, and I feel bad about it
I just said I agree, the first few demos should be vanilla
@towc that's not the case at all
get a basic understanding
@ssube I would agree. But @AlexMitan probably won't want to make anything much bigger than a demo any soon
20:47
Wasteland Kings, Super Crate Box, LUFTRAUSERS all game maker, no need to learn any lower apis, because they want to make games
write a few very basic demos in raw canvas, then move to an engine
ok fine I'm a horrible person :P
don't listen to my advice @AlexMitan
@ssube which is exactly what I said originally :D
@towc no, you just haven't suffered through writing something that big yet
I love the control scheme of Ringrunner and Starship Rubicon
I wrote the turnTo script to use for both the AI and the player drone
basically knowing whether to turn left or right towards a point
20:48
I would love to make a game with js
@towc lies, listen to all the advice! :P
I am, I am
@rlemon yes
maybe I could try matterjs and just integrate it here, I can't even imagine how to handle rotating colliding objects
if I was disagreeing with you, it was only accidental, while enthusiastically disagreeing with towc
20:49
@AlexMitan ok, my advice would be to start by learning very basic canvas
@AlexMitan and if you dont care to learn about how collisions ect. actually work, and just want it to work, use a game engine :p
@AlexMitan that's what the engine is for
user1596138
I suck at canvas. The only thing I have still that I made is this codepen.io/Jhawins/pen/wBoerb everything else was just fiddling around which got boring fast.
user1596138
And that used Kinetic.js to abstract 100% of the canvas bits
@ssube but I agree with @towc to an extent. He may mean "never", but I read it as "not out of the gate"
20:50
having tried to write an engine and gotten up through the math, cameras, and collisions: use a damn engine
@towc I'd say I'm decent at it, right?
not cockily great, but I get it
@AlexMitan show me something of yours :)
Are sprites out? Games need to be done with cavas?
use it, love it, embrace it
@Waxi you use sprites on the canvas :p
20:50
@rlemon I do agree you should make a few simple graphics demos first, like a turtle running across the screen or a bouncing ball, then implement them in a graph
@Waxi yeah, you just blit sprites onto the canvas
codepen.io/RUJordan/pen/pLGDq only canvas that I've ever did lol
canvas is the new backbuffer
@ssube pretty much, fortunately it does back buffering for you automatically
no worry about flickering!
Ahh ok!
and having to implement your own backbuffer haha
20:51
wow
2012
user1596138
@SterlingArcher Haha nice
if we're at showing off our canvas projects: margaine.com/Snake
/me blits to backbuffer, waits for all the things, blits to main canvas
my first canvas was boob rain
but that isn't online anymore :(
20:52
well shit there are many of mine
ruined that entire project for me
and the one I'm working on now grapplehero.com
actually started again over Christmas break almost done, yay.
wrote vector math, culling, scene graphs, got as far as occlusion culling and a working octree with LOD
"now"
20:53
@ssube well, you had to do it in C++
ohh really?
but jesus christ engine code is ugly
lol @ everyone sharing their projects
finally?
yeah
20:53
good stuff
@FlorianMargaine yeah, that was before JS
the kids have been bothering me
I can't wait to see it
@towc I don't mean to spam, but this is the third time I posted this, sorry :)
Jacob beat the lite vs finally
and was like dad finish it omg
20:53
been what? 2.5-3 years in the making?
@ssube JS existed 4 years ago
@FlorianMargaine did not
the cyan light bulb is basically "working on trigonometry". I tried my best to make it work as little as possible on calculating angles
so when it's heading straight for the mouse, most of the time it's trying not to do trig
@towc Rainbow tunnel is dope.
20:54
I identify with that part of the code a lot -_-
Neon Hexagon is my favs of @towc
That one is so damn cool
anything 3d on a 2d canvas impresses me
mostly because 3d math hurts my brain
@rlemon +1
20:55
Thats my fav of mine
user1596138
@AlexMitan hmm it's more like mouse orbiter
based it on this, i.imgur.com/9uGXXpb.gif
@Jhawins it purposefully has a turn speed
for the jsbin compo
20:56
@Loktar Yeah that one is way better...awesome, neon hex and rough seas.
@rlemon I still, to this day, don't fully understand the model-view-projection matrix business
@rlemon dude I love that one haha
that's after implementing it multiple times in more than one language
It purposefully has a limited turn angle to use as a stat in a game potentially
I'm gonna add some AI of slowing down as it approached the destination
I ought to make more demos it's fun
@rlemon I haven't seen you make many lately either
20:56
Where does webgl fall in the stack, if at all?
@towc still pumps them out like a madman though
@Waxi on the client?
@Loktar been busy with the house
haven't done much programming outside of work
yeah understandable, same here minus the house part
and the stuff I am doing is mostly node
I'm all up in the node yo
user1596138
20:57
Hey @AlexMitan have you heard of requestAnimationFrame?
I've just been doing react stuff for the past year it seems
@phenomnomnominal Ok better question, WebGL vs Canvas?
which is actually quite fun, but not as fancy
@Jhawins I have, but it burns up my processor more than manual 30 fps apparently
and I have a decent one
20:58
@Waxi WebGL is a Canvas context
and here are some pretty simple canvas engines I wrote (with unfinished content, but whatevz):
http://www.towc.eu/game/portal-2d/
http://www.towc.eu/game/portal-2d/editor.html
http://www.towc.eu/game/pimag/
http://www.towc.eu/game/

Really lame old ones: http://www.copot.eu/matei/games/
@phenomnomnominal hah that is pretty cool
Yeah, the question should be WebGL or 2d canvas
@Loktar it was some gif originally
user1596138
20:58
@AlexMitan Ah. Well it will likely be doing 60fps, so if your code stalls trying to run 60 yeah you'll have problems.
@rlemon Ah ok, now I see!
I'm worried that javascript and canvas take way too much performance to be practical :(
@AlexMitan plenty of games run at 30fps
I don't know if that's true
@rlemon heard you like 3d on 2d :D
Seen this yet? http://codepen.io/towc/pen/pgEYjy
20:59
it's called vsync
haha master race problems... since i only have 144hz monitors and didn't implement delta timing for the js13k my game ran slow for everyone
I had to fix it fast
it was running at 144fps for me :p
if they can't hit 60 or better, they fall back to 30
towc is showing off.

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