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17:00
well, they're doing search engine placement right at least
that or github is
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i can't actually pull it up for some reason
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@Raynos you're getting it all mixed up lol
i don't want the ASI stuff
twitter.github.com/bootstrap just hangs for me
ah now it loads
user1385191
I think I'd get really, really angry if I worked at Twitter
17:04
@MattMcDonald <trollface />
user1385191
comma-first, jQuery everywhere, semicolon avoidance
@MattMcDonald please work for twitter, you need to fix their code
twitter always breaks ._.
someone needs to fix dem bugs
user1385191
one thing that really bothers me with these "hip" JS programmers is the use of this EVERYWHERE
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"Designed for everyone, everywhere"
...modest.
@MattMcDonald the use of this everywhere is a good thing
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17:05
tell them to stay away from python
You either use this or closures to store state between functions
or curried self
user1385191
I prefer avoiding this when possible
function () {
  var closureState;

  function b() {
    use closureState
  }
}

vs

function () {
  var closureState

  b(closureState);
}

function b(self) {
  use self
}

vs

function () {
  var closureState;

  b.call(closureState)
}

function b() {
  use this
}
GGG
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"built on LESS..." does that mean i need all the ruby garbage to run it
@GGG less runs on node
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17:07
ah nice
user1385191
"bootstrap-typeahead.js" has 91 occurrences of this over 251 lines
Basically using this, i presume you use curried in self instead python style?
less also runs client-side
user1385191
lol I just pass objects around
17:08
yeah
I use f.call(state, args...) instead of f(call, args...)
Especially since it's easier to do with callbacks
user1385191
I guess that's why I get call and apply confused
user1385191
...because I never use them
fs.readFile(data, function () {
  callback.apply(this, [state].concat(argumetns));
});
array or not array
that's the question
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argumittens
17:10
@MattMcDonald how do you solve currying state in when your passing your callbacks to other functions?
user1385191
I don't
Do you use closures instead?
Or do you not keep state across a series of asynchronous callbacks?
user1385191
callback(node);
user1385191
that's as complex as it ever gets
what about ajax
function (node) {
  // how to pass node to callback?
  xhr.onreadystatechange = callback;
}
user1385191
17:18
why would you need to pass a node to an XHR handler?
because you want to to do node.innerHTML = xhr.textContent
user1385191
lol
xhr.onreadystatechange = callback(node)
user1385191
that gets called immediately
user1385191
so it's a no-go
user1385191
17:25
more from twitter:
user1385191
$(function () {
    $('body').on('focus.typeahead.data-api', '[data-provide="typeahead"]', function (e) {
      var $this = $(this)
      if ($this.data('typeahead')) return
      e.preventDefault()
      $this.typeahead($this.data())
    })
  })
user1385191
I could probably get hired if I showed up wearing a beanie and carrying a macbook pro
@MattMcDonald do it
Anyone understand category theory?
which context?
Maths
More specifically left adjoints
17:27
Too difficult
oh :)
burning Ubuntu's cd...
partition resized...
I need to get an ethernet cable out.
@FlorianMargaine , why are you installing linux ?
@tereško: for awesome
basically.
17:43
i fail to see that WM as anything special
I've tried it on a VM, and I fell in love with it
well, keep failing :p
I just find it extremely productive :)
I usually have a lot of windows open (as a lot of people do, I guess), and awesome is just awesome at handling all of those
also
>> No mouse needed: everything can be performed with keyboard;
This just totally rocks :)
The mouse is a waste of time.
right ...
anyone here have some familiarity with Knockout?
@FlorianMargaine If I ever move back to Linux, I'll give that a shot.
@DavidManske , once had it .. it was bundled with concussion
@FlorianMargaine , this all kinda begs the question : why ubuntu
17:48
@tereško: any distrib would do. Ubuntu just looks like the best at handling all my drivers
now , that's FUD
I'll simplify my example, I have a div this is data-bind="click doWork" and then I have anchor events under that that are clickable
the anchor tags are firing off the doWork
I don't want to use my time fixing things... done that already a few years ago. It was fun, I learned a lot, but I just want to get my stuff done and get over it now :)
@DavidManske: knockout requires you to define logic in the HTML?
more just bindings in html
ok :)
what's not working then?
17:53
just some random question for the room: what github-repos would you guys recommend to have a look at, if I want to polish up my js-understanding?
echoes @GNi33
@GNi33: ever tried reading jQuery source code?
Do it. You'll laugh.
@FlorianMargaine I will? :D
Or cry.
hey, that'd make a nice quote
"Ever tried reading jQuery source code? Do it. You'll laugh. Or cry."
that'd make a tweet for @Raynos :p
what's so bad about it anyways?
it likes to go around its ass to get to its elbow
@cHao said it pretty well.
gotta go.
Well, I had a look at some parts of it, some functions looked a little weird (and redundant)...
but back to my question? are there any good suggestions?
Actually, taking a look at some of @Raynos's code might not be a bad idea.
I feel like his style has evolved significantly over the past 6 months, so it might not be consistent.
But there's some good concepts there, at least.
@RyanKinal , do you recall when @Raynos was one of biggest jQuery fans in the channel ?
18:07
lol. no, actually
it was less then year ago
user1385191
I do :)
I may have blocked it from my memory. He was kind of a super-noob-troll back then.
Oct 26 '10 at 13:19, by Raynos
I've been using jquery ajax & ASP.NET webmethods for client-server communication. With an ASP backend are there any other options that don't involve full postbacks (but keep jquery)?
18:14
@RyanKinal we should massively star-up that message and stain @Raynos 's name
Question: who do you think is the most experienced JS developer here?
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lol this title is killing me: stackoverflow.com/questions/9485044/…
@FlorianMargaine definitely me~
I'm gonna go with Loktar
hm. Never seen him :/
user1385191
user1385191
YES!
But (no joke), maybe me. I've been writing JS for around 15 years. That isn't to say I'm the best JS dev. But I've probably been doing it for longer than most.
@MattMcDonald awesome
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@RyanKinal i'm pretty sure i've seen you pull a few noob moments... or maybe i'm mixing you up
18:17
@RyanKinal So, your GitHub-Page is worth a look too, I guess? :)
@GGG Like I said, I'm not the best, but I've been doing it for a long time.
@GNi33 Not really. I don't have a ton of JS up there. It's mostly PHP.
user1385191
I guess that's why Mozilla wants SVG
user1385191
that demo's in SVG
GGG
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that's cool
they've had svg since like ff3 haven't they
@RyanKinal: what's this makepage plugin? Entirely JS DOM page?
18:19
JavaScript development has evolved a lot over the past 15 years. Believe me.
@FlorianMargaine lol, it's for t3h tr0llz
But yes
yeah, no real use I guess :p
oh, actually...
the header, nav etc objects look nice
Don't you even dare
Use that plugin, and there will be murders
lol :')
you'd advise me extJs for full JS app? :p
Mar 21 '11 at 16:15, by Raynos
Stop being a snob and going "Can't use jQuery, use RAW js/dom manipulation instead"
3
18:22
(seriously speaking though, I'd definitely go for Backbone.js. I heard only good from it)
@tereško that's a gem.
lol @tereško!
Apr 3 '11 at 5:38, by Raynos
@MattMcDonald do you think you can use raw js instead of jQuery without performance loss?
18:23
.. just saying
there should be a SO chat quotes' site ;o)
@MattMcDonald I have to wonder if they chose the demo as a worst-case scenario, or if it's kind of a "middle of the road" case.
Also, I kind of want Collusion as a Chrome add-on. Because I don't use FF on a daily basis.
user1385191
it's middle of the road
user1385191
as someone who tracks cookies on a per-cookie basis, it's definitely "normal"
user1385191
the fun part is clicking a hacker news link and being inundated with 3-6 cookies
18:26
lol
user1385191
or in twitter's case, the same half-dozen cookies 40x
any reason why SVG is better than canvas for this kind of case?
user1385191
SVG is vector
user1385191
canvas is raster/pixel
18:27
one scales , other does not scale
it doesn't answer my question :p
user1385191
SVG is more friendly for flexible layouts
user1385191
...because it scales
I know that, but collusion is meant to scale?
well
and performance wise, is any better?
s/scale/zoom
18:29
Also, canvas isn't a W3C recommendation yet?
(Not that people care about standards where Cool Stuff (TM) is concerned)
HTML5 isnt W3C recommendation yet
Well, yes. That's what I meant, by extrapolation.
Alrigher guys
I have a question about something
Is it possible to make something, so when you hover over, lets say a button, it will display a little message above it
Like on imgur
when you hover over "computer"
18:30
@HarryBeasant: it is possible.
it's called the title attribute in HTML for anchor elements
Do you know if thats javascript based?
Oh i see
user1385191
@FlorianMargaine the title attribute is global
How to i go about adding this?
@MattMcDonald: oh, didn't know that :)
user1385191
<a href="./" title="A link called desire">A link</a>
18:31
@HarryBeasant: <div title="Stuff that appears when you hover">Stuff</div>
@HarryBeasant pure CSS way: jsbin.com/iwitis/edit#html,live
(not necessarily recommended because the css + selector isn't supported by all IE, but still nice that you don't need JS)
bah
@ThomasShields: that's not pure css, that's entirely JS.
anyone familiar with zsh
cant get a answer in any other chat lol
user1385191
if you hide and nest the span, you can do p:hover span
18:33
and i dont want to ask teh question
Thanks guys!
@FlorianMargaine um, no its not.
user1385191
but p:hover gets you in trouble with IE anyways
Also, ive basically banned IE from my side
user1385191
</stupid>
18:33
It auto redirects to get chrome website
I'm sick of IE
user1385191
IE's sick of zealots like you too
2
lol
user1385191
I changed my dad's default browser to Opera from IE 8 and he got angry with me
user1385191
gestures like that anger users
user1385191
18:35
especially ones that can't upgrade/install browsers
way to alienate like 30+% of the population
Well they can suck my left nut
obviously you don't do this for a living.
Correct
Congratulations, @HarryBeasant. You have just failed at web development.
lmfao
better to give a small 100% width div at teh top of the page that says "hey upgrade"
pos:absolute
A toaster could run more web applications than IE
oh, really?
rather than alienating users
user1385191
I get the "have you ever worked at [...]?" retort all the time when I tell people scripting with the DOM isn't exactly difficult
18:36
@MattMcDonald , btw , in my experience the simple users like opera , because they can now understand "bookmarks" .. which is how they use the speed-dial
@Mike: really?
user1385191
@tereško yeah, that's the weird part; Opera is amazingly simple
or redirect them to rick-roll video
user1385191
mouse gestures are awesome
@HarryBeasant you'd be surprised how many of the "problems" IE has are caused by incompetent developers.
3
18:37
@MattMcDonald , not sure , i use only 3-4 of them
If i were to try and fix my site for use in IE
It would take me several years
@ThomasShields that should be starrred more. :P
@HarryBeasant: which is why we're saying you're a bad developer :-)
@HarryBeasant link to your site? Betcha i get it to work in IE7+ (6 for kicks) by tommorow.
"close tab" , "back" , "forward" and in rare occasion - "new tab"
that's all the gestures i know
If you want to view it in IE, i'd have to remove the redirection code
Give me a sec
i'll remove it myself.
</hacking>
fucking browser snobs. i swear.
Removed
And okay.
18:40
well
that's what I call ugly :3
rofl
absolute positionning your footer :p
lol
i wont comment on this code
The code is a bomb
I know that
18:41
a bomb waiting to go off
@FlorianMargaine , no, just not understanding HOW to use absolute positioned footer
It has gone off
haha
several times
go get bootstrap
solve problems
18:41
lol
IE8 it looks a mess
ie7 not bad
best suggestion for ppl that dnot have time to dickaround with cbc
What do you want me to do with the footer?
kill it with fire
lmfao
is javascript chat the only fcking chat thats active in all of stackexchange? ffs
18:43
@HarryBeasant it doesn't even look right in IE9. sheesh.
it is
i know it doesn't
HELP ME!!!
lmao
@HarryBeasant step 1: do not use <center>
rm -rf ./
rofl
use w3c validator
thatll fix 3/4 of the problems
yeah, fix all the HTML/CSS validation errors.
user1385191
18:44
PS: using width 100%; is very dumb in many cases
user1385191
especially in a case where you're just using a plain div
and why is that Matt
@Mike , i think more authentic version is :
> When in doubt: set it on fire
user1385191
...because divs default to width: 100%;
user1385191
18:45
...and <p> tags, and so on and so forth
ah
alrighty
So, it's not really dumb, it's just redundant
@HarryBeasant please. 414 CSS errors? REALLY?!? jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/…
emm .. setting width: 100% on divs is actually really dumb
at least use a separate style sheet for IE, not those stupid * hacks
18:45
i learned something today
because it breaks the default expected behavior
okay okay
let me get started
Ah, right. Padding and border will have an adverse effect.
well what do i replace it with
@HarryBeasant use bootstrap if you're lazy.
18:48
what is bootstrap!!
lol
user1385191
@RyanKinal ...which is why defaults are king when styling for the IE box model
link me to this ... bootstrap
18:49
yes , and i kinda suspect that it might bread behavior of floated elements to , @RyanKinal
html5/css3 framework that is cross browser, cross device compliant
user1385191
oh cool
user1385191
it even has a slogan that's just as fraudulent as jQuery's
user1385191
> Designed for everyone, everywhere.
if you need a framework for html5/css3 , you should hire a real developer
18:49
what do i do with these files?
user1385191
(except if your browser isn't bleeding edge)
user1385191
(or if you disable something)
@tereško It won't break it, but it will cause a floated element to take up the full width of its parent. Which kind of defeates the purpose of the float.
GGG
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but it looks exactly the same everywhere, and degrades gracefully!
thus , breaks the expected behavior
18:51
Unless you expect that behavior
What do i do with the bootstrap files?
read
I don't know why you would, but it's possible. Maybe you need a particular item to take up the full width, but it also needs a class that has float applied to it. I don't know. But it's conceivable.
so these files are basically css styling that works in all browsers
si
and some nifty neato js stuff thrown in there
probably bloated
but /shrug
user1385191
18:54
@HarryBeasant ...which is fallacious as CSS isn't implemented in all browsers
What
Should i use it or not?!
css isn't implemented in all browsers...
css1.0 is
css2.1 kinda is too
i mean how much of the user base are you trying to appeal to
user1385191
18:56
ok .. well.. there is no css for links or lynx browsers , but they are more like a "last ditch efforts to fix the server" not a serious web browsers
user1385191
heh yep
user1385191
wow that brings back memories
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does it?
i remember being hesitant to switch to windows 95 from windows 3.11
haha
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18:59
but i don't remember any browsers looking like this

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