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5:00 PM
@rlemon He looks so much better on my body
 
@FlorianMargaine Show me ((a + b) * (c + d)) / (d - c) without operator overloading.
 
@RUJordan Where were you!?
 
Yay meetings
 
@RUJordan u saw that ?
what robert lemon did ?
:-( i feel i am ugly :-( my face sucks :-(
 
user1596138
I wish my work computer could also be my home computer.
 
5:05 PM
@Jhawins ;D
 
@Jhawnis they just sent me the letter. Mailed and dated for the seventh of this month.
 
@dystroy , @FlorianMargaine is it possible to route a request to some distant server adding a header to it ?
 
user1596138
"Hey boss, can I take this $1,200 iMac home at night"
 
this is what my HOD told me :P
@Jhawins sure can !
or you can always ssh it
 
user1596138
Works for me!
 
user1596138
5:06 PM
@AbhishekHingnikar I do. It's just not enough sometimes.
 
@Jhawins ssh -X -c ?
i mean it has to have a display server right ?
even if it doesnt there is teamviewer :P
 
user1596138
Especially since I don't have a mac at home, and I work on a mac. Lots of differences.
 
user1596138
Too slow.
 
user1596138
Waaaaaayyy too
 
user1596138
slow
 
5:07 PM
@Jhawins seriously ?
 
@AbhishekHingnikar Of course it's possible. If you want an easy way to do it, I don't have it without googling.
 
Hey man, I thought we looked great. That's our Fusion Dance result.
Bask in our glory,
 
@dystroy no :P i googled didn't find anything like that
he was talking about some sort of router server he said its useless to proxy when you actually just need to relay the request to some other server ... and he wasn't suggesting redirect.
now since he is a pro at networking, I took his words a lil bit seriously
 
user1596138
Plus I have two systems here also. So it's like juggling between 3.
 
user1596138
I don't even own the one at home. I'm one of the only web developers without a computer I think.
 
5:13 PM
0
Q: Javascript slider module and extending it further

keviniusi created this module, and i'm wondering if i did a good job. How would an experienced javascript developer improve this simple slider module further? Like, let's say that you want to use this module on 3 sliders on the same page. This is the module var sliderTest = (function(){ /*::::::::...

 
@AbhishekHingnikar hm, that's basically what a proxy does...
 
@FlorianMargaine proxy pipes
right ?
 
yeah
@BartekBanachewicz what are you talking about?
 
@FlorianMargaine how you would write that w/o overloading assuming a,b,c,d are user objects.
 
Goin to trivia at a bar with my co-workers tonight. Should be fun, despite my trivia level is that of a 4th grader.
 
5:21 PM
why would you apply + on 2 objects and know what it means?
 
@FlorianMargaine if you create, say, Imaginary type and those objects are instances of it, it's a well-defined operation
so why would you not do that?
 
(defmethod + ((i (eql 'Imaginary)))
   ())
 
that's not JS AFAIR
 
no, that's lisp, where + is not an operator but a function
anyway, for simple cases it's indeed an elegant solution
 
@FlorianMargaine and how is that related to Javascript, pardon me?
 
5:23 PM
but in most cases, cases are not simple
 
24 mins ago, by Florian Margaine
operator overloading is a stupid idea anyway
you seem to be contradicting yourself
 
operator overloading in a loosely typed language ? That would add to the nightmare that is already operator overloading...
 
I haven't seen operator overloading used correctly to be convinced that it's useful
 
@FlorianMargaine I thought you've just agreed with me on the case above
59 secs ago, by Florian Margaine
anyway, for simple cases it's indeed an elegant solution
 
but I don't know any simple case where it'd actually be useful
 
5:24 PM
Excuse me, but I am confused.
@FlorianMargaine what about the equation I wrote?
 
"but in most cases, cases are not simple"
 
Well in haskell every function consisting only of symbols is an operator :v
 
@BartekBanachewicz show me the code for operator overloading + how you use it, and the code without operator overloading
aaand I'm leaving.
 
@FlorianMargaine Should I write the equations behind my equation for imaginary numbers?
 
I don't know, I don't write maths at work :|
if you write maths, just go with haskell tbh
 
5:26 PM
@FlorianMargaine what if I am using Js but I happen to be needing to use something better than builtin numbers?
 
and in haskell, anything is possible. Except writing real-world code.
 
@FlorianMargaine what
 
@BartekBanachewicz you can enhance Number.prototype
I said I was leaving!
 
@FlorianMargaine will that allow me to have more object types acting as different numerical types?
 
@BartekBanachewicz If you're trying to do heavy mathematics, perhaps javascript isn't the right language.
 
5:28 PM
I'm listening the "drama" episode of this developers life right now, the first part is about JavaScript and the semicolon usage, it's so funny, enjoy: thisdeveloperslife.com/post/2-0-9-drama
 
@Retsam adding vectors isn't heavy mathematics by any means. Nor is using constrained or infite number types.
well maybe infinite would be, actually
 
What's so wrong with vector1.add(vector2), then?
 
anyway I wanted to overload something like >> for my monad now, and I can't so that's kinda sad.
@Retsam (vector1 + vector2) * matrix1 * matrix2 * matrix3
good luck with keeping it readable
and that's really a simple case.
and I'm not even started on generics.
 
//(vector1 + vector2) * matrix1 * matrix2 * matrix3
vector1.add(vector2).multiply(matrix1).multiply(matrix2).multiply(matrix3)
 
so readable
oh wait not at all.
 
5:31 PM
Exactly as readable as yours, if you read the comment, not the code.
Or is commenting code for readability "cheating"?
 
@Retsam of course it is
you can justify any terrible code by commenting it
good code doesn't need comments.
 
In fact, mine is more readable in a sense because I know exactly what is going on. I'm calling functions on objects.
 
if the code is not readable change it to be readable, not comment it
@Retsam I know exactly what is going on when I overload operators too
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yeah, but does anyone else who looks at your code? No, they have to dig through other files to figure out whether that's something you did or a built in feature.
 
@Retsam wait, what?
how is that different from using a function really
"they have to dig through the files to find that function"
operators are syntactic sugar for functions
and if you think they are anything more, you are wrong.
 
5:35 PM
If I do x + y, it's not clear if that's using a built-in operator or something custom.
I don't know languages that have built-in .add functions, so x.add(y) is obviously something custom.
 
@Retsam Also I don't have to, say, "dig through files" to understand (+) <$> [1..10] <*> [1..10]
@Retsam and you should not be concerned by it. You should be concerned that a function is adding x and y
 
It doesn't really concern me. I really don't think (x + y) syntax is a million times better than x.add(y)
Sure, the first is nice; but I don't spend my time going into language chat rooms to rag on their language just cause it doesn't have it. That'd just be a silly waste of time.
 
@Retsam I was hoping to see some reasonable alternative here
apparently you have none.
 
facepalm
Have a good day.
 
8 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
anyway I wanted to overload something like >> for my monad now, and I can't so that's kinda sad.
 
5:38 PM
this room is sometimes more interesting than is necessary
 
4 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
operators are syntactic sugar for functions
That seems like a reasonable solution to me, maybe you should try taking that advise.
 
I will have to, obviously :(
 
@BartekBanachewicz Many languages, including many recent ones, don't have operator overloading, because it brings problems along with solutions. Operator overloading is just a detail in practice and it makes the language complex. Even many Rust users think including that was a bad idea.
 
@dystroy it doesn't make language complex
and if you think it does, I'd like some backing on that
 
And, once again, having operator overloading in a loosely typed language seems very very wrong regarding readability.
 
5:41 PM
+ is overloaded already, in case you forgot
 
Operator overloading is super useful.
 
@dystroy that's not a backing by any means
that's a random rant
 
No, it's just convenient
 
We have that in ES7
 
5:42 PM
@dystroy I love operator overloading in Ruby
 
@BartekBanachewicz A rant ? Please look at what that page is...
 
@dystroy exactly
 
@dystroy You try writing code that crunches numbers without them - it's a real pain to read.
@BartekBanachewicz how did writing gui with haskell go :P?
 
@dystroy I saw what that page is. Doesn't change a thing about it being an individual opinion.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You don't usually write big formulas in your program, the formulas are usually part of the data
 
5:43 PM
@dystroy what
 
@dystroy what?
 
just look at WebGL or something maybe
or look at anything, while we're at it.
 
or just any number-crunching stuff
 
@dystroy I just don't think you have written code that'd benefit from operator overloading. It's not usually the stuff you do in web coding.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I was working on harvest for the past few hours. I miss monads here :(
so I'm implementing something resembling State monad to make my units smarter with ease
 
5:44 PM
@BartekBanachewicz That's the most retarded thing I've heard today. Why would you ""miss"" monads?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well... I usually make applications which apply complex models to arrays of numbers (sometimes gigabites) to survey and optimize plant process...
 
You don't need a state monad, just use state. Stick a variable those are mutable.
 
It's just I don't mix the model as code...
 
@dystroy what
 
@dystroy So you wrote a parser :P?
@dystroy What is the "formula" coded in?
 
5:45 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I've discovered I can make it in something that resembles a tree hierarchically
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You usually have to deal with many parsers, you don't compute a wavelet like a bahesian network or a neural network
 
well I'll show you the code after I'm done with it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You don't need it though. You're solving a problem that doesn't exist in JavaScript -_-
 
user1596138
Why can't I buy a dirt cheap laptop with no OS on it?
 
@dystroy well, what if you do?
 
5:46 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'm too used to thinking functionally :/
 
user1596138
You would think removing $400+ in software would drop the price.
 
@dystroy Right, but somewhere there is a parser that can handle types and that's the same thing as operator overloading..
 
user1596138
But all they have are shitty 11" and netbooks.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You are :) That's better than most people who come with an OOP mindset though :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz Replying "what" to everything people say that you disagree with is a kind of obnoxous habit
3
 
5:47 PM
@Retsam "sigh" is more annoying ^^
 
@Retsam or I completely don't understand, as in "It's just I don't mix the model as code..."
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yes, but the sequence of operation is abstracted or part of the data, you don't go with lots of x+ y +z * (omega) in your code, you have to separate the layers. The description of the computation you do is part of the data as soon as you do anything big
 
anyway, time to get my behavioral tree running
 
@BartekBanachewicz Saying something like "can you clarify what you mean by that" might communicate that better.
Or even "I don't understand"
But you've said it about... 5-6 times in the past half-hour often on statements that were completely clear in meaning.
 
@dystroy yeah and shaders are data too, so what. They still have operator overloading
 
5:48 PM
@dystroy Right, first of all I don't agree that data and code are different. I'm not even talking LISP or REBOL where they're the same. In languages like C# a lambda expression is just a tree. You can store that, etc.
 
49 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
@FlorianMargaine what
 
@dystroy and second of all - you have something much stronger than operator overloading. You have a whole domain specific language.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't see how it's a disagreement.
 
If you ever did numbers in Java you'd cry my cry here :)
 
of course DSL source is data, that's the whole point
 
user1596138
5:49 PM
I was wrong. You can.
 
@Retsam I say "what" to comments I don't understand, not to comments I disagree with
 
@dystroy I'm not saying that's a disagreement. I'm saying that you have a stronger notion than operator overloading for your number crunching and you're ruling out a much weaker one that's very useful.
 
IOW you're a hypocrite, @dystroy.
oh me an my extrovertism.
 
^ great level of debate and constructive discussion -_-'
 
^
 
5:51 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Please try to read the critics, you behave way too much as a kid. I tried not to comment on that but you go too far too often
 
@BartekBanachewicz "extrovertism"?
 
That's not extrovertism - that's just being rude.
 
In your words:
@BartekBanachewicz what
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I kind of lost it after he said that he has no idea what he is talking about
not directly, though.
vOv
 
@BartekBanachewicz This is not the C++ room. We don't have discussion at this level here usually :P
We actually talk about things instead of calling what the other person is saying crap. It's less "monkeys masterbating and throwing shit at each other" and more "people talking" :P
 
5:52 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum and you don't have the courage to tell people they don't have any idea what they are talking about which we do.
@BenjaminGruenbaum We just require a resonable level of discussion.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Why the heck do you assume your opinion is more valid than his or that you know better? Are you just interested to show some sort of e-superiority here? That's not something we do here either.
 
whilst when lurking here I've seen people saying random shit noone bats an eye to way too often
 
Internet Courage is hard to come by these days.
 
Hear him out..
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't say it's useful. I say it's very useful for a small domain. It's very cool when you do matrix or vector operations but 1) you have to go farther as soon as it goes more complex or abstract 2) it adds a big burden to the language (I never implemented operator overloading, just looked at some discussions among rust or go language designers) 3) it may the code harder to follow in some ways as what is done might not be obvious (just like macros)
 
5:54 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Oh come on it's not about superiority
 
@BartekBanachewicz He is telling you that he is doing number crunching and he still doesn't support operator overloading, worst case you learn something or gain another perspective.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum didn't you just prove him wrong or something?
also DSLs and doing numbers in the same language are still different and you still do the second thing
 
@dystroy in Ruby operators are just functions of their left arguments
 
@dystroy C++ does it pretty horribly with not enough invariants. Try Scala :) It does operator overloading in a sensible way (just functions). ES7 does it solidly too.
 
And Lua is a dynamic language and does them right.
 
5:55 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Try to stop seeing discussions as a way to find who's superior.. that's not a goal here
 
The word "prove" should almost never be used in internet arguments.
 
@dystroy I'm not trying to be superior by any stretch. I am just trying to filter out things that are blatantly incorrect
@dystroy like that
 
@BartekBanachewicz No, I talked about my experience on the topic. I think I'm right here but if I didn't think I might be learning something I wouldn't participate in the discussion.
 
Well this isn't fun
 
@BartekBanachewicz When we see someone argue something wrong we tell them to "live up to their words" here. This is why you're writing GUI in Haskell :P
 
5:57 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum so far FRP looks rather pleasant vOv
 
What does vOv mean? O.o
 
!!/urban v0v
 
@dystroy v0v Text talk for shrugging shoulders. If you drop this on somebody, the conversation is pretty much over. It means "I'm right, whatever" or "I dunno, whatever." What the Kanye shrug is to body language, this is to text
 
Got some code to show? The only FRP code I've seen was beautiful but you needed a PhD to understand it
 
@BartekBanachewicz Good luck with it :P I'm sure all the projects and libraries are very mature, the community is awesome and mutating state passed through parameters is a lot nicer than actually having.. you know - state.
 
5:58 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum there's State monad y'know
nothing passed through parameters.
 
@BartekBanachewicz You don't say :P
 
The text talk shrugging is being used in an improper context, because nothing about it said "this convo is over" >=(
 
@FlorianMargaine take a look at Elm
@RUJordan then again, UD isn't the oracle on emoticons, I guess.
 

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