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12:25 AM
@KevinB lol
James can’t read your mind
 
 
1 hour later…
1:42 AM
Hi
const CONSTANT_OBJ = { range : 5}
undefined
Object.getOwnPropertyDescriptor(CONSTANT_OBJ,"range")
Object { value: 5, writable: true, enumerable: true, configurable: true }

Why writable is true since its constant, I was expecting it to be false
 
2:15 AM
@Sadiq It’s a bug. It will only display false if you set it to false. Besides, you can always assure that a constant variable cannot be changed.
 
@ParkingMaster Ahan
Oh may be its not a bug!
coz I'm accessing the property 'range' of a const object, 'CONSTANT_OBJ' which can be changed
 
 
4 hours later…
6:10 AM
@Sadiq const means that you cannot reassign the variable. Not that the object you assign to it is immutable.
 
 
5 hours later…
11:15 AM
@ParkingMaster it's not a bug...
const-declared variables prevent reassignment, they do not do anything to the values, nothing at all
sigh, could've taken a look at the message above, sorry, @VLAZ, that got my blood boiling
 
"Oh, Oleg, you look so hot!"
"Thanks for the compliment!"
"No, I mean your blood is literally boiling in your veins. Do you...need a doctor or something?"
3
 
@VLAZ I need more people at least trying to read the spec...
 
But that takes effort...
 
...yeah. That said, I kind of understand this particular misconception if one comes to ECMAScript from a saner language ^^".
I have a plea to everyone: please, please, read the ECMAScript Language Specification spec at least once. It will set you for life.
3
 
11:38 AM
TL;DR, I will ask chat.stackoverflow.com instead when I wonder why my function cannot be invoked when it is undefined
 
is there a "not" missing somewhere there? ^^"
 
there is a "not" there in the cannot
there is also a sort of "not" in the "Too Long, Didn't Read"
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine on that note, the latest ones are probably bordering on too big. I've never done it. However, I've read the ES1 (PDF link) spec which is tiny. Probably takes 30-60 minutes to go through. Large parts can be skipped, like there are a lot of lists, for example, And it's a decent introduction in not only JS but some other concepts. It's also hella outdated by this point but still interesting.
If you need something more up to date but with reasonable scope, I suggest ES5.1 or ES6. ES6 being more relevant obviously, but ES5 is still a decent look "under the hood".
All the specs after ES6 are building on top of it, so you don't really need to read the whole of ES7 then ES8, etc. You can find all specs here. The oldest ones are PDF only but the others have PDF and web versions.
 
I thought reading specs is only interesting if you are planning on building your own compiler or IDE
 
@VLAZ sorry, I just linked to the latest revision - yeah, 5.1 or 6.0 are both great entry points.
@Wietlol no, far from it! Reading it finally makes you understand the language as opposed to just stumbling through it. It cover data types, scope, algorithms, their complexity, common caveats, and much, much more.
 
11:47 AM
exactly, as a developer, I don't care how the language works, I just care about what I need to do to achieve what I want
as a developer of a compiler for said language, I have to find out how it is supposed to work
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ to each their own.
 
its like in C#, I dont care how structs work, using classes is much easier
or how unsafe works
etc
in JS, I dont care how classes work, because interfaces and object literals can basically do everything I want
 
what do "classes" have to do with the discussion on whether the spec must be read?
 
reading the specs, you have to go through every single feature of a language
while as developer, you only care about what you need to use
(although for the classes and interfaces, that is more TS related than JS related)
 
@Wietlol Yeah...and on that note, TS really needs some specs. For I don't know how long, features are just described in essentially release notes. Which 1. dramatically lowers visibility 2. doesn't even properly explain how to use them, even if you do manage to find the correct thing.
 
12:15 PM
oh yea, every language needs specs, but for the developer that uses said language, a usage guide would probably be more helpful
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine basically what I meant, when I say something in the DOM is wrong from what it should be, I call it a bug.
 
@VLAZ it... certainly does. Although the dev blog notes and the wiki are so detailed it doesn't really matter to me personally, but I imagine less dedicated devs getting lost. In fact, on the project I am currently working, I regularly end up explaining some highly obscure shit that the compiler sometimes throws at us
@ParkingMaster 1). There is no DOM involved. 2). It functions exactly as it should function.
did you know that DOM doesn't even need ECMAScript to back it up? It just happens that is the most common occurrence.
like, literally, there is no broken functionality or DOM-related stuff in what you called a bug. Nada. Zero.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine lol, I know but I still call it a bug for some reason
 
@ParkingMaster if you want to be taken seriously, please, avoid term misuse... Sorry if that sounds harsh, it's a genuine advice.
 
12:31 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine doesn’t sound harsh, I’ve only been programming for 3 years so I am still kinda new. I’ll take your advice :)
 
@ParkingMaster just as a precaution :) I know I might sound downright snobbish at times
but I do hold very strong opinions on what it means to be a programmer. Part of which is reading the specs of everything you work with and using the terms as they are defined strictly. We are not in the Arts department :)
< said a person whose formal education is philosophy >
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine 😂
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Oh, a bullshit artist! Did you bullshit last week?
 
@VLAZ yes :) I am a hegelianist, after all
 
@VLAZ I wonder if that was Oleg in the video
 
 
9 hours later…
9:48 PM
starting June 5th, 2023 (on Monday), many moderators and curators (me included) are going on an indefinite strike in protest of the recent actions by Stack Exchange, Inc. I cordially invite anyone interested in joining us to sign the open letter and / or participate in the discussion.
5
 
10:06 PM
 
10:54 PM
@Feeds love how I am in between two different oceans
 

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