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00:05
> oh, you're trolling
00:28
good morning, ladies and gentlemen :)
morning @Tavo
It's already late
good morning Tavo.. that being 1:30am here in the UK :)
@KamilSolecki,staying late again?
00:28
Heyo, @Tavo ;)
@Tavo yeah, I should head to sleep soon
hey @Loktar
@George, it's always morning when someone joins the channel, it's always evening when someone leaves ;)
jesus christ this
I want to use the data-* attributes for a HTML element and pass a JSON object through this, but it needs to be a string, would JSON.stringify make sense for this does anyone have any idea?
@George oh yeah. Yep. I definitely read that here today. Wow, yep lol.
and use JSON.parse(element.dataset.someJSON)
@DavidKamer in this chat?
@George I think you just use the parse method and concecate strings in your object
@George yeah, I do believe so... Yep... No 🐘 here
00:40
i feel so stupid because I was just making a string like: "someAction_someElementId anotherAction_arg0_arg1" etc. then having to parse this manually, rather than just using JSON.
I just want iterable objects that retain their keys...
01:06
what do you mean?
we have maps
Hello guys
I need a bit help regarding the creation of Firebase schema for my Ionic app
The app has a chat feature
Can anyone please tell me how the schema should look like?
How can I save the order of the messages?
and most importantly, how it will recognize the members of the chat? (User 1 and User 2)
and extract all the messages from the schema to render those out on the screen
@George either convert twice or do it manually one time lol. This situation doesn't need a map
Any help please?
sorry I haven't worked with Firebase schema, maybe you could read the documentation.
hey have y'all seen the I/O keynote?
01:19
I did
have you seen Duplex? I'm blown away
But at the end, I've to develop it on my own
really open that link, I couldn't believe my eyes
it's linked to a specific moment, just like an important 15 seconds
@forresthopkinsa "Mm-mmm" lol
I loved that part <3
totally. I've never seen a computer VOCALLY pass a Turing Test
01:24
Ai AI AI AI AI AI
that's all I hear about lately
for good reason
this is nutes
nuts* lol
I wonder if it's like VR in the 90's or if it's really AI's time
still watching the video though 😛 not meaning anything negative though just saying like man even television commercials all I hear about is AI I feel like heh
or maybe I just perk up when it's mentioned
holy f cking sheet that Duplex, @forresthopkinsa I see what you mean... :|
I know right
@Loktar that video totally changed my response to whether it's AI's time
I'm so happy
google are so cool
01:26
Dang that colorize is badass
hah that's nutty
hnggg I need the copy paste from the real world
@Loktar AI doesn't exist
it just sells better than machine learning
as a buzzword
that's the real problem with "AI"
ehhhhh debatable
not debatable
user1596138
01:34
Agree
general AI is decades away
Fair point
if at all possible
well if you define AI as consciousness then sure
def a buzzword right now though
01:35
if you define "intelligence" as "ability to learn" then yeah, definitely debatable
user1596138
Who would define intelligence that way tho
although yes it is a buzzword
uhhhh everyone using the buzzword lmao
I'd totally accept that as a valid definition of intelligence
user1596138
We;ve had AI for decades ig
it's debatable, but there's no denying that people using the buzzword are trying to invoke those kinds of emotions
01:37
im pretty sure we will sleep walk into a general AI world without realizing it because of our concept of general AI.
I mean, if there are lots of specialized AI which is networked together, y know what I mean?
@Mosho decades isn't really that far in the future if you think about it..
not compared to a human lifespan
but pretty long compared to technological development
at least in the past 60 years
Next year we'll have a fully functional generally intelligent AI with human level capacity to learn but at a faster rate.
also, me hoping it'll somewhat happen during our lifetimes :P
I mean, general AI is kind of the asymptote
How long has the human species existed?
01:42
the singularity and all that
Like in our most current form?
"our most current form" is incredibly relative
Our lifetimes have literally seen the most advancement times a million
user1596138
Idk J-sus had a pretty crazy time
Well, I have the most recent maternal and paternal haplogroup and that came in around 10,000 years ago
01:44
jeeeeEESUUSS
our most current form would be about 100,000 years
user1596138
We can't even walk on water yet
Google Assistant prob can
@Jhawins shun the non-believer!
that's FLYING, not WALKING
01:45
we can fly USING WATER
I'm definitely pro-jesus, but he couldn't fly, let alone with water from what I remember in Sunday school
what will civilization look like in 10,000 years?
yeah wtf what kind of Messiah can't fLY
from what I read jesus didn't even lift
01:46
@George I think the theory that our heads will be tiny is probably the closest imho
he uhh like, lifted some guy through a ceiling, or at least his pals did
what like our brains will have everything taken over by machines so we no longer need our own?
pretty sure we would be part of the Borg collective then
People rely more and more on society and brains are getting smaller in relation to that
user1596138
@DavidKamer He could ascend
I think our smartphones are part of our brains now
id be pretty fucked without one
01:48
@Jhawins with water cannons?
Hopefully one of you watches super store. I'm astounded by how small this girl's head is:
I've seen a couple episodes
It doesn't look as bad as I remember, but she has a really small head compared to what was average like 40 years ago
head looks fine to me
and then you have things like Zika
any1 have any idea how to interpolate a local variable of a pug template into a script. block ?
01:52
That, over time with how immunities work by partially incorporating the viruses dna (imo) will cause smaller heads...
e.g.
- pugVar = "hi"
script.
var myVar = #{pugVar}
???
actually, not imo, dogs are proven to share human dna through viral infections
@DavidKamer but we still need intelligence to operate in society, I mean we are programmers right?
@George theory is... AI's will take that over and then we'll just go back into a type of dark ages with 0 advancement... or worse we would have AI overlords that were creative.
Creative AI on league with someone like Ernest Hemingway or even a more creative version of Steve Jobs would be tremendously scary as it would be repeatable.
i think humans are the only threat and that AI is only beneficial if it was not for humans and those using it
01:57
depends on what motivation it's designed with
but ig the humans are still behind that too so
@George I would agree to some extent. I would prefer a system of law based on AI judgment of crimes. Judges have way to much power to be human.
eh, fundamental forces and processes that are out of our control will emerge, for 1 thing we cannot tell if a video is real or computer generated, we could have inifinitely long movies/sitcoms etc. but im pretty sure the natural laws which emerge would be ultimately beneficial
laws which emerge which are independent of human and AI intelligence, fundamental physical realities, like gravity.
@George I posted a question about this, indirectly. I was trying to use python to figure out and prove an equation for the theoretical maximum of combinations of pixels on an LCD screen to prove that everything we consume electronically is finite.
judgement is a social/human construct and is subjective anyway
until you introduce motion
02:01
@George not if words have definitions and those definitions are locked in place when the law is written. That's 90% of law.
@forresthopkinsa true, buuttt
@DavidKamer there is an algorithm which can make any combination of pixels, including the ones which describe the algorithm itself
Tupper's self-referential formula is a formula that visually represents itself when graphed at a specific location in the (x, y) plane. == History == The formula was defined by Jeff Tupper and appears as an example in Tupper's 2001 SIGGRAPH paper on reliable two-dimensional computer graphing algorithms. This paper discusses methods related to the GrafEq formula-graphing program developed by Tupper. Although the formula is called "self-referential", Tupper did not name it as such. == Formula == The formula is an inequality defined as: 1 ...
you can use the more calculable combinations to figure out when vectors of motion will begin to repeat based on the saturation of repeats
not sure what you mean
It would be way easier to explain with a graph, but I'll give it another shot
02:03
the vast majority of imagery is pure noise, you could argue 100% of it is noise, but it depends what you define as signal.
Ok, so to understand where I'm coming from let me get a baseline on where I started with this
the thing is, an image could be generated by an algorithm but appear to have meaning in it, e.g. a picture of your dog, but from the perspective of the creator (image generator), it is just as much noise as any other image.
at a certain point, an image will have to repeat pixel for pixel if everything is done on only 1080p (although this would be unlikely to happen as resolution advances)
correct?
only us and our brains apply meaning
that's my point, meaning doesn't matter in what I'm figuring out
02:06
ok so you're saying an image can be > 1080 pixels wide?
still confused
Ok, starting over lol
please do :)
Given a down scalable image that can be converted to 1080 and still retain meaning (so meaning does matter in the sense that there has to be an observer for anything to matter) will you have a finite number of possible snapshots?
about as much as you have a finite number of possible combinations of atoms
there are a finite number of pixels on a 1080p screen yes, and therefore finite number of combinations of those pixels yes
02:09
@forresthopkinsa but how much content is created per minute on average from all content creation sources including youtube, tv, movies, netflix and, yes, even porn?
you're saying that you could already have a copy of every image that will ever be produced
Ok, given the rate at which human kind produces content (i guess including software, websites etc) when will everything be repeated snapshots?
thats what the library of babel images is @forresthopkinsa babelia.libraryofbabel.info/slideshow.html
right
aaaand uhh the number of combinations of pixels is so unbelievably huge that we are nowhere near even understanding the scale at which we'd have to produce content to use up every possible image
David, that doesn't make sense. You can have an infinite amount of numbers between 0 and 1.
02:12
So once those snapshots are inevitable duplicates, when will, say 10 second (any arbitrary number would work the same), begin to repeat?
yea im just saying it doesnt make sense that everyhting will be repeat snapshots
@George How can a screen render an infinite difference if it has a predictable repeatable result?
the universe will cease to exist before we get to that point lol
@forresthopkinsa Easy to assume, but not proven
fair enough
02:13
it cant render an infinite amount we already decided there is a finite combination of pixels.
that's why I want to have python help me prove it lol
all you have to do is some maths no need for python
@George exactly, but can any idea (visuals only) by expressed through an lcd?
python is the best calculator
and it depends whether you take into account color, or different wavelngths, or just black and white
ok fair point
idea is different from just rgb pixels!!!!
02:14
@forresthopkinsa thanks. Someone else told me the same thing, and I was like yeah, so you want me to not use python when I'm a dev? lol
so lets just work through it now..
you have 1920×1080 screen, thats 2073600 pixels....
I think rgb might have lead us down an incorrect way of looking at before when I posted. RGB is a programmer/dev way to figure color, from what I gather each pixel is either red, green or blue, not 0 to 255 of each
I think it is just times 3 of that number
for color factoring in
@DavidKamer eh? normally every pixel has 3 or 4 channels
in most image formats anyway
02:16
inb4 it time itself 3 times
@DavidKamer I think you are worrying about the granularity of pixels being too small, but I believe information can exist independent of its physical manifestation. take a mathematical circle, you can plot it onto a screen and it wont be a perfect circle, but internally, mathematically, a vector circle is perfect.
its like platos world of perfect geometry
each pixel is a lot more than rgb. Say you have a 16-bit monitor
so 2073600^3 might be correct?
that's 65000 colors per pixel
@George are you one of the people that believes that numbers exist independent of the universe?
02:17
so (that number)^16
you want to figure out the combinations, and colour is a different combination, so you need colour, otherwise you just have black and white images.
@KendallFrey I don't really think that makes sense, I'm just pointing out the difference between vector and bitmap graphics
user1596138
My chair shipped a week before massdrop said
@George yeah, but that is besides the problem in this situation
oh, not into philosophy? :(
user1596138
Don't gotta work from crap chair
02:19
according to Wikipedia: "As of 2018 24-bit color depth is used by virtually every computer and phone display and the vast majority of image storage formats."
@DavidKamer why? combinations in relation to what? what we can perceive is important
so you need it to the 24th power @DavidKamer
sorry sorry, I mean your number ^2^24
@forresthopkinsa well, 2^24 to be precise
@KendallFrey I reckon there is a place and time where mathematics doesn't exist, just not in this universe.
02:20
@forresthopkinsa now riddle me this, can every thing produced on 24-bit color be translated accurately for consumption to a 16-bit color scheme or would it degrade to the point of changing the entire picture?
16-bit is "high color"
it's used in old monitors and cheap small screens
@George A "place" and "time" outside of spacetime? sure :P
soo yeah I mean I guess you could work with that
@DavidKamer It can be very close, but not quite perfect
well i have to use words, I was considering leaving them blank
02:21
but the problem is that the only REASON you could work with that is that humans are incredibly good at recognizing certain patterns
There is a and where doesn't exist.
in that it would be a meaningless concept
There are sets of axioms that do not produce numbers
However, there are sets of axioms that do produce numbers, therefore numbers exist
@DavidKamer From my experience I'd say it depends more on the monitor and viewer than the actual bytes.
@forresthopkinsa right, but here is the best part. we can take what ever is the best human's can discern the difference between and figure out all possibilities on that. That is the only thing that really matters if you are looking at human perceivable pattern repetition.
02:24
well in that case you can introduce all SORTS of shortcuts
@George @KendallFrey Are you ready for a mind blower?
@KendallFrey but what about multi-verse and universes beyond our comprehension?
sure
@George read the book I linked, if you want to know more
02:25
why do we use a 10 digit number system and why do we have 60 minutes and 60 seconds and 24 hours. All of these things make no actual mathematical sense from a pure math perspective, correct?
no thanks im not that interested in that area
nb4 that was a dissapointing mind blower
I think Hawking left an unfinished thesis on limiting the number of parallel universes?
@DavidKamer so what, why do you drive on right side of road while us in Uk drive on the left ?
@DavidKamer not entirely
02:25
so, it would be pretty dumb not to notice that our numbers are based on the number of fingers we happen to have
we literally view the truth of the universe based on how many fingers we have rather than something like pi
60 and 24 are highly factorizable numbers, so they're pretty useful for things that frequently get divided up
10 digit is base 10, but computers use base 2, binary... blah blah. and 60 for time is actually quite logical but im not gonna go into it blah blah
@KendallFrey I'm still waiting for someone to start using the centiminute
wot Kendall sed
I freaking hate seconds
02:27
@DavidKamer idk, I view pi as more important, whereas 10 is just a tool
@DavidKamer Except time? And timezones?
@Sheepy Timezones are arbitrary segments
just divide one day by 100
or 10
Also, lots of cultures developed non-decimal number systems
North korea used to be like 3 hours behind south korea xD
or 2^4
02:29
i prefer decimal system too
Even English still has vestiges of base 12 and base 20 numbers, in the form of dozen and score
but u in USA have still metric everything haha
@George I think it was just 30 minutes
Switzerland and France, who both have french speakers say 70 different
nah... it was at least 3 hrs. 30 minute maybe somewhere like myanmar but im not sure
02:29
@DavidKamer not if you consider hours
@George source?
French say 60-ten in french and Swiss say sepenty or seventy
it's like they're a different people or something
oh sorry youre righ
t
but I'm still on the fact that 10 is a horrible number to use for a base in math based on the fact that time math is completely f***ed by it, trig is, and even binary to some extent
02:32
sorry i meant to say imperial
It's like if we based every computer language off of Fortran instead of C
@DavidKamer the main problem is that it's not factorizable
it would work, and you would have to do a bunch of mental hoolihoops, but is it worth it?
12 is a good base, as is 60
binary is quite simple but a bit verbose
@DavidKamer Timezones are based on hours, which are based on 12.
02:33
but that's because we're stupid monkeys who are still trying to use our ten fingers to prove what is factorable
i think we should adopt base 7
also, timezones should be abolished
we can only keep 7 things in our head at 1 time or thereabouts
@DavidKamer no, number theory has nothing to do with what base you choose
@Sheepy yep, so just do 25 hours or something and divide the globe into 25 timezones.
02:34
@DavidKamer no, no timezones
only UTC
no DST either
user1596138
No times
@KendallFrey lol, says the guys how did well enough with base 10 to get into ivy's?
user1596138
Always now
nb4 walking dead
@DavidKamer It's been tried. Multiple times. Swatch Internet Time, for example. If you haven't used them that says how successful these attempts are.
02:35
@DavidKamer I'm not sure what your point is here
but yeah... When you're a hammer...
There are even handwatchs made to show these times.
@Sheepy like I said, we are stupid monkeys when it comes down to it
speak for yourself
I'm a clever dog
@Sheepy I'm tempted to learn that
02:37
@KendallFrey my point is we'd be using an 8 base system if we had 8 fingers and it would be just as horrible to do math with and that is why everyone hates math because we still count with our fingers and kids should probably never learn how to count the way they do
And I'm an ovis aries.
did you know that we emit every single colour, and it just depends on the relative motion to the observer
what colour they see
Did you know that our body is mostly empty. Hell, the Earth is mostly empty spaces.
@DavidKamer 1) Not necessarily. As I already mentioned, there are plenty of non-decimal number systems around the world. 2) 8 is better than 10. It's more factorizable, and it maps better to binary, which is perhaps the most fundamental base.
define empty
02:39
Lol that "go back to Quebec" line during the strike in Archer reaaaallly made me lose it hard
@KendallFrey so we pretty much agree
That answer sounds like not?
@George not exactly. Something that's red only emits red, but the wavelength can get shifted.
Not sure why but I need to ping @SterlingArcher about it
I don't think we are arguing. I just think that kids shouldn't learn how to count and I'll admit that is radical.
02:40
@DavidKamer Wait, why not?
@KendallFrey I still disagree, we emit red aswell as every single colour
you see red if you are static relative to them
If you mean "we" as people, yes, I'm light-skinned so I emit a lot of every visible wavelength
But a red laser for example will only emit red
i meant something like your tshirt
the red becomes green or blue by the doppler shift, for example
@KendallFrey because, counting is just finding a way to be shortsighted and if people thing math is about counting, they are basically as useful as a bad calculator.
02:43
and every sound we make is every single pitch
I think kids should learn basic programming logic before counting..
It's not, but counting teaches concepts such as the number line, which is useful for understanding lots of higher-level concepts
teach the number line like:
@George not every sound, but some sounds yes
__________________________________
>                                =                                       <
02:44
huh
wow lol, that line is supposed to go all the way across lol
it is all dependent on the relative motion to the sound or light waves, but the emitter is emptting every single version
No, it's not
something that emits every colour appears white
and then show them a bunch of smaller than graphs along that graph with the same symbols
and boom, you have a genius 2 year old
a laser emits only one colour, but what colour that is depends on your motion
02:45
only if you are static relative to the white light.
@KendallFrey what if this white thing is moving towards or away from you very very fast?
actually... you're right
@George no, doppler-shifted white light is still white light
if it emits EVERY colour
@KendallFrey or reflects
then yeah... it will still be white.. huh, never thought about that
02:46
it won't still be white
It sure will
it would
doppler effect still applies
@KendallFrey maybe your e-motion with mood rings
yeah it does, but it's still white
02:46
and you can vibrate longitudinally which will change the colour too
@George yep, but as one end of the visible spectrum shifts out, the other end shifts in
@George light can't, only laterally
colour only depends on wavelength afaik
and a few minor optical illusions, but those aren't significant here
@KendallFrey I don't think I was taught how the theory of relativity effects light wavelength. I mean I learned how it effects length.. but they never exactly said if it applied on that level and used examples that made me thing was macroscopic (which it probably isn't)
yes electromagnetic waves are not longitudina, but if you motion relative to them has vibrations longitudinally say from -0.95c to 0.9999999c
@DavidKamer yeah length contraction and doppler shift are different
also you can get shift through things other than doppler
notably through a gravity well
curvature of spacetime :)
02:51
posted on May 09, 2018 by Myles Borins

Notable Changes console: make console.table() use colored inspect (TSUYUSATO Kitsune) #20510 fs: move fs/promises to fs.promises (cjihrig) #20504 http: added aborted property to request (Robert Nagy) #20094 n-api: initialize a module via a special symbol (Gabriel Schulhof) #20161 src: add public API to expose the main V8 Platform (Allen Yonghuang Wang) #20447 Commits [7293c58d51] -

light always goes in straight lines, spacetime is the thing which bends
@KendallFrey I have a recurring night mare where there is an alien planet that is circling a black hole and they are advanced and know they are going to die... it gets worse
and light always travels at c
@DavidKamer oh god
they then use a machine that explodes the heads of all their young...
but for a reason
02:52
@George *in a vacuum
@DavidKamer have you considered writing fiction?
even not in a vacuum, the light travels at c, you can measure a slower speed inwater or glass etc. but thats because it is bouncing around but still moving at c
no, the bouncing around is a common misconception/misexplanation
they are using a machine to create a simulation in their brains because if they don't give them a chance to live, they will technically be killing them prematurely because they base life on lifespan
if it actually was bouncing around, it wouldn't always come out in the same direction
02:54
but the dream is just a blue chick holding one baby after another up to a machine and it's head blows up. It's really f***ed up lol
if they don't get all of them, they're religion says they'll suffer as child for eternity in the singularity of the black hole
yes but i have to use words
I wrote a finctional book before
i know its more cmplicated
its getting absorbed and remitted and refracted etc etc. so
xD
:)
@DavidKamer man that is some fucked up shit
i know...
02:56
David you could write some SyFy novel
It came to me as a recurring dream and the story came second. I kept waking up like "why is she so frantically killing those little guys"
SyFy horror
Then I noticed the lighting on the planet, it was an incredibly real dream btw
like dusk constantly but still day time and a black hole in the sky that was booth tiny but like everywhere
civilizations last bastion could be around black holes
when all the stars have died
and black holes are the only remaining source of energy
then like a month later I was like, oh shit, it's their religion lol

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