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1:00 PM
I'm already planning to PR cap to update the message
I wonder if it would be worth changing it to use the room topic, rather than a separate message
 
that would be really annoying
unless we changed the room topic appropriately
but maybe a bit unnecessary
 
The topic is appropriate, isn't it?
 
I don't think it would be annoying, new people don't come that often.
 
it will look like some cheap bot, I think
 
isn't it?
 
1:03 PM
ouch
 
Given how people often talk to Cap as if it's not a bot, I think that'd actually be helpful. lol
 
Cap was born when Zirak was lonely on Christmas Eve and wanted someone to play hangman with.
If that's not "cheap bot" idk what is
 
The whole "people don't realize Cap is a bot" joke got old
 
I mean, as well, if you're in the game of making it more 'friendly', people always seem to take offense when Cap deletes a unformatted code, simply because they don't realize its a bot.
 
maybe not exactly the room topic. Something like this: "Welcome to Room 17! Please have a look at the room topic before interacting with the people in it: <topic>"
 
1:04 PM
It's been more than one occasion when someone comes in, posts unformatted code, and then goes "uhm this is bullshit, give me more than a second, jerks"
 
that reminds me
!!hangman
 
@towc That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
 
And then the room topic directs you to the room 17 website
 
@towc So, basically what I was thinking of
 
And the room 17 website directs you to GitHub
 
@KendallFrey I can agree to this
 
I think this is a great game of indirection
 
My concern is just people ignoring it, it's so damn easy..
 
@hilli_micha We need to force them to read it!
 
just make cap post everything in caps
 
1:06 PM
@Ikari that's for this language, not JS: npmjs.com/package/capslockscript
 
@hilli_micha If people don't read the rules, I think we have a right to kick/whatever them when they break them
 
@towc lmao
 
@towc Sexy
@KendallFrey That is so unrealistic. Who reads rules before doing anything?
 
like everytime I receive something, the first thing I do is throw the manual around the corner of the room
 
I think someone posted that package here some time ago
 
1:09 PM
pretty sure the concept of "read the rules or be ready for the consequences" is common enough that most people should be familiar with it.
 
oh, first time was in 2013
Jan 26 '13 at 18:45, by SomeKittens
https://npmjs.org/package/capslockscript
 
@KendallFrey That is definitely correct. But that is ultimately more of a liability thing than actually preventing people from doing the wrong thing
 
How else can we prevent people?
inb4
I guess we could gallery but I kind of don't like that
 
A thought I did have was, what if Cap deleted your messages until you did an "!!agree" command? But that seems really harsh and opens the door for spam, unless you put in a counter that just outright kicks someone if they don't comply.
But still, that's a terrible solution I feel.
 
I wasn't aware that I will have to provide constructive feedback
 
1:13 PM
Is there any way for requests in gallery to confirm that they read the rules, like with a password or something?
 
@towc I'm disappointed the deprecation notice isn't in all caps.
 
what if we do what Lounge does, a separate room for questions, and the main one as lounge for js
 
I think our best path for now is to wait and let things calm down for a week - and then follow up with concrete proposals for improving the user's first experience.
> you were not supposed to use this
Don't tell me what to do ur not my dad
 
@KendallFrey That just sounds a lot like "Hey, you can't agree to the EULA unless you've scrolled it all the way to the bottom!"
 
@OliverSalzburg We're not here to find a good solution, we're here to find the best solution
 
1:14 PM
:D
 
@OliverSalzburg yeah except ignoring eulas doesn't result in vamps and trolls
 
Hah!
They are still trolls, but they usually paid for your shit, so you deal with them all nice like
 
@OliverSalzburg The trick I've found to work best (in not too long EULAs) is to put the "agree" link around 75% of the way down, inline
 
@KendallFrey In the Android gallery, the rules have a line I have read and understood the rules or similar in the rule set and new user should say that as the first line when they join the room otherwise they are told to go back and read the rules.
 
If someone wants to pay for that I'm happy to donate mine
 
1:16 PM
@Ikari That came up in the GitHub repo (One on-topic room for JS and one for off-topic), it didn't seem to garner much favor thus far.
 
Then at the bottom add something like "read the whole thing to learn how to proceed, it's not that long!"
 
@SurajRao not elegant, but...
 
@MadaraUchiha Shit like that just frustrates users and leads to additional "I can't install your shit" tickets for the support team
 
@hilli_micha oh... :B
 
@OliverSalzburg We're not selling a product.
 
1:17 PM
You're selling the ability to talk to me, I'm the greatest, you should be charging premium for that.
 
@MadaraUchiha Oh, in the room rules realm
 
room rules realm, room rules realm, room rules realm
 
@OliverSalzburg My mouth hurts now, thanks.
 
1:17 PM
oh, in the room rules realm 🎶
 
I don't like to boast, but I do think I had just won an internet for that perfect gif :D
 
uhm, no, you post the cat picture I like so much, then we'll talk.
 
@hilli_micha Which one is that?
 
grumpy cat?
 
This?
 
1:19 PM
Yes. That one. Thanks.
That picture makes me unreasonably happy.
 
Pa, the tic
 
Madara, are you following My hero Academia this season?
 
@Ikari I haven't followed My Hero Academia in any season
 
oh, lmao, might've confused you for someone else
my bad ^^'
 
Maybe @KamilSolecki
 
1:31 PM
hello Everyone ! do you know, how to define a parameter funcion only for a numbers? if I have: function example(str, num) and I just use Number() to define a 'num' parameter just for a number Values it does not work. and if I give a values to the two parameters like this: ("string", "string".length) it will return the length of second parameter. Want I want is that the second parameter in this case : ("string", "string".length) return false because it is not a number.
 
typeof num === "number"
 
function example(str, num) {
  if(typeof num !== 'number') return false;
}
or something
 
So it returns undefined if it's a number? How wreckless!
 
@OliverSalzburg better wreckless than reckless
 
It meets the requirements exactly!
 
1:34 PM
@KendallFrey I thought the w was silent
 
@OliviaP. You should try TypeScript
@OliverSalzburg it is
 
Many thanks!
 
This code I'm refactoring right now is so fucking old 8(
 
@KendallFrey I'm a beginner in JS that's why i prefer to used just js for now :-)
 
@OliviaP. TS is "just JS" but with static typing, which is basically the solution to your problem
 
I'm not saying you should switch to TS right away, but check it out
 
Want to see if variable is number? Use TypeScript!
Change everything!
 
@KendallFrey I will see this now thank you!
 
@MadaraUchiha I don't get it
So the big announcement is "We keep doing things like we always did them"?
Like, I can't see any announcement of any change. It's just "We have rules to cover this already"
So how does that relate back to the situation at hand with people trying to force their way into a room inappropriately?
 
I believe they took the side of the room owners
 
1:45 PM
So, we have someone who doesn't show a good-faith effort to join the room, is kicked because of it and then loudly complains about it on social media and we get a post that tells us what can result in the closure of a chat room
 
@Cereal Only in that particular instance, perhaps
 
@OliverSalzburg nope
 
\w+@\w+\.\w+ <- that that enough of a validation of an email?

I don't really care if it's an email, I jsut don't want someone typing 0128371923y1293h and hitting submit
 
use . not \w
My goto is .*@.*\..*
 
That makes @@@.@ valid
Which I guess is fine
 
1:51 PM
@Cereal That's actually not correct at all
a@a is a valid email address
 
yours makes kendall.frey@blah.blo incorrect
 
Ah, I see. This is why I ask questions
 
inb4 someone complains a huge wall of text I'll remove this in a sec
 
Apparently, we use /^[a-z0-9!#$%&'*+\/=?^_{|}~.-]+@[a-z0-9]([a-z0-9-]*[a-z0-9])?(\.[a-z0-9]([a-z0‌​-9-]*[a-z0-9])?)*$/i`
 
My rule of thumb is to filter out 90%+ of problems quickly with a regex, the rest will be handled by the email failing to send
You basically have to allow for emails failing to go to the right place, so there's no point trying to handle that all twice
 
1:53 PM
Also, make sure to use the same regex throughout the entire stack :D
 
Also, be sure to do the validation in one place so you don't need to copy the regex multiple places around your stack
 
omg, wtf, the chat started showing me random zalgo text when I pasted that regexp :O
 
Right. Check it in you UI, then don't check it in your API
 
@Ikari looool
 
 
1:55 PM
I know that feature :)
 
+1
 
@Ikari It's a reference to tony the pony
 
<[^>]+>
whee
 
Actually wondering how it look with the dark theme <[^>]+>
 
@MadaraUchiha that's jon skeet's sidekick puppet
 
1:57 PM
Not amazingly tbh
 
You could always make a PR
oh wonderful
I tried to start running the test suite before I left for a meeting, came back, and nothing ran
now I get to wait for it
god dammit, it's broken
 
that's what she said
 
I don't like tim post; I'm allowed to say that, right?
 
yells behind Nick, Omae wa Mou Shindeiru
 
@ndugger How could you say such things you need to learn to hold hands and get along
 
2:07 PM
did I just hear hand holding?
 
I don't like BoltClock, he keeps spamming the portal with low-effort flashes.
wait..
 
@BoltClock kumbaya?
 
@Ikari I've literally never seen anyone hold hands like that IRL
 
I threw out my back :(
 
wat?
 
2:12 PM
@KendallFrey Like what?
 
@SterlingArcher Play two days of video games and call me in the morning
 
@BoltClock palms facing outward toward each other, hands at chest level
 
that is quite common in animu
 
@Ikari I'd really rather you didn't, no offense.
 
@Luggage ooh ooh I have flaky skin what's my prescription?
 
2:14 PM
oh.... okay
 
@KendallFrey same thing
 
yaaaay
 
@Luggage that's what I need. I had to sleep on an incline last night and it helped drastically. I was in major pain around 2-4am before I got to sleep D:
 
Some opiates may also help, but I can't prescribe those.
 
The Python environmental protection agency wants to seal it in a cement chamber, with pictoral messages to future civilizations warning them about the danger of using sudo to install random Python packages.
3
 
2:19 PM
^ this hits way too close to home
 
I like writing Python
even though I write very little of it
but I hate running Python programs
 
I love the ? between pip and easy_install
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum same
 
In JS, NPM is often criticised but we've effectively (after the bower fiasco) have a single registry and multiple good clients
 
Meta is so heartbreaking to read now. Everybody is tiptoeing because they're scared of this PC backlash :(
 
2:26 PM
I don't know, a couple of people have made some interesting Meta posts.
 
I for one am glad that people are discussing at least. Even if not all of the discussion is constructive, and even if a select few remain vocally stubborn
And even if people are proposing stuff that's really far out like the [affirm-me] tag
I'd hate to see meta keeping completely quiet about it
 
I do think the signal-to-noise ratio for these type of discussions is way off
It's been that way for as long as I can remember
 
I don't think it's that bad
 
@SterlingArcher This (in part, and not out of fear of the backlash, but out of fear of being dragged into a very public very long discussion) is why I haven't responded on any meta or any other public channel so far.
 
twitter is where public hangings happen now
 
2:31 PM
I'm looking at stackoverflow.com/questions/32000865/… What is actually the most efficient way to merge two Sets?
 
define "efficient"
 
I like the generator approach, but thought I'd ask
For large Sets, just be warned that this iterates the content of both Sets twice, once to create a temporary array containing the union of the two sets, then passes that temporary array to the Set constructor where it is iterated again to create the new Set. — jfriend00 Aug 14 '15 at 3:10
 
@OliverSalzburg new Set([...set1, ...set2]) is the cleanest for sure
 
@KendallFrey Efficient, in that I don't iterate over the set twice as mentioned in that comment
 
If you don't mind mutating, you can iterate over one set and insert into the other
 
2:33 PM
@OliverSalzburg I'm not sure that's actually a problem. Explanation incoming...
 
@BoltClock there-in lies the problem. What about the people that don't give a crap about being "nice" in their responses? Like, April Wensil (pardon the potential misspelling of her last name) goes through SO and blasts to her large twitter followerbase that the use of "clearly" or "exactly" is unwelcoming. I don't care about that. Where does that leave me?
 
It's not about ABCDEF vs ABCDEFABCDEF, it's about ABCDEFabcdef vs AaBbCcDdEeFf
 
Are people like me (I'm nice guy, people love me) being pushed out of SO?
Say the word and I'll leave the site, and contribute elsewhere, but I'm tired of the same meta talk repeated once or twice a month with no action taken on it
It's a limbo of "what's going to happen" only to see a SE blog post calling us terrible people
 
@SterlingArcher at the very least there is now a lot more stuff you can start to close new meta Qs as duplicates of
 
function mergeSetsMutative<T>(set1: Set<T>, set2: Set<T>) {
  const smallerSet = set1.size < set2.size ? set1 : set2;
  const largerSet = set1.size < set2.size ? set2 : set1;

  for (const element of smallerSet) {
    largerSet.add(element);
  }

  return largerSet;
}
 
2:35 PM
So unless the actual act of iteration is the bottleneck, I think separating reading and writing steps is generally ok
 
@TylerH haha!
 
@KendallFrey I thought the point of the comment was, that I first have runtime to create the new array, then I have additional runtime to iterate over the entire new array to construct the set and that might not be ideal in terms of spent runtime
 
Making even less friends here :D
Here's a challenge: How about you own up to your inclusivity pledge and offer moderators and ROs of highish-traffic rooms courses in non-aggressive communication and community moderation? (that's a thing). We're all volunteering our time and effort and it would be a nice "thank you" while actually promoting a cultural shift towards inclusivity. It's not expensive, it'd be a good thing for inclusivity overall™ and it'd go a long way to show you care. — Benjamin Gruenbaum 11 secs ago
 
@MadaraUchiha That approach might actually be perfect for my use case
 
I'd love to be better at communication
 
2:37 PM
So what about that new Set(function*() { yield* set1; yield* set2; }());?
 
@KendallFrey install ssh
 
@Luggage shush
 
I've never heard of that package.
 
@OliverSalzburg Why is that any better than an array?
 
@KendallFrey I don't know if it is. I don't think I've ever used generators
So I'm entirely dependent on your expertise here
 
2:39 PM
@SterlingArcher The best part is that meta hasn't even gotten to that specific issue yet
 
I'm gonna guess that yield* xs; is basically for (const x of sx) yield x;?
@OliverSalzburg My what? lol
@BoltClock Are they actually going to?
 
I'll just use @MadaraUchiha's approach. It's easy to understand for everyone involved and it gets the job done
 
@KendallFrey If not, this is me jinxing it
 
@BoltClock well I'm upset. We have no direction from the mods... "you can cuss" You can't say that" and now I'm not sure if Tim Post's meta.se post is a threat to shut us down if we don't basically just stop cussing and off topic nature.
 
I'm pretty sure cussing in general is still allowed
as long as it's not super vulgar
 
2:41 PM
That's the problem it's super fucking unclear and we're probably on the verge of a Lounge Pt 2
 
Read the CoC
 
Was laughing at that breaking the rules of twitter?
 
@OliverSalzburg the only safe thing to do would be to check v8 and then run with -trace--deopt. are you looking for the fastest or cleanest?
 
2:42 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Fastest
 
Everything that works with iterators works by first converting those iterators to arrays most of the time.
 
@SterlingArcher Given that we're not on twitter...
 
What do your sets contain @OliverSalzburg ?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum blarg
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Objects
 
2:43 PM
room topic changed to JavaScript: Topic: JavaScript, ECMAScript. No swearing, this is now a Christian Stack Overflow chatroom. [ecmascript] [ecmascript-6] [javascript] [nodejs]
 
As in class instances
A Set was chosen for semantics, not functionality
I guess...
 
[jesuscypt]
 
@OliverSalzburg well, I don't want to give you a shitty answer - can I get a vague idea of what these objects represent or does the use case consider them opaque?
 
@BoltClock I'm not Christian.
 
@BoltClock so.. are other religions welcome or not...
 
2:45 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum They are security-related policies that control permissions of the actor in the current context. Does that help?
 
!!RIOT
 
@Luggage the silicon valley gig is excellent.
 
╯°□°)╯┻━┻
 
@OliverSalzburg yes, definitely. The reason they're in a set and not an array is duplication or just since you want to communicate that there are no duplicates?
 
2:46 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum The latter
 
How often is the set queried compared to the # of times it's created? Is it modified once and queried often?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It's usually constructed once, extended (by the function we're discussing) zero or more times, and then iterated over usually once during validation
So not much happening
But it happens for every request
 
@OliverSalzburg Ah, interesting. Are the rules specific or relatively general?
 
I'm very happy with Tim's post about self-moderation. I just hope that the willingness to guide us if we step out of line is there, and not just drop a hammer once we do fall out of line (let's be real, it happens, and it's going to happen again)
 
The first trick I know for this is to create a bit map with flags for every rule type that applies and then querying those rules individually (by knowing where to look later) if applicable. That's what similar mechanisms that the kernel uses for asynchronous querying mechanisms (like select)
@SterlingArcher I think that's what I was trying to stir up in my answer, even if I wasn't too nice.
 
2:50 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Both, I guess :D We have a sort of addressing scheme for every resource in our system and you can author a policy to target any resource, group of resources or "children" of resources. You can also add conditions and tie the policy to certain actions
The policies are not user-authored though. They are just an abstraction we use internally to express permissions more generically
 
@OliverSalzburg what's being queried? The permissions of a single resource?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum You've been too nice and self-flagellating up to that point, to be honest, but I see it was a method and you really just wanted to defuse the situation ASAP. Your reply to Tim Post was on-point imo
 
BTW If you can avoid optimizing it I'd just do new Set([one.entries(), other.entries()]) and optimize when that's slow. I trust you know not to prematurely optimize - so I didn't mention this before but I realized there are other people reading.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yes, basically. From all policies we have, we construct a graph that lays out every resource you have access to. When we query access to a resource, we find the node in the graph that is responsible for this resource, evaluate the policies at that node and determine the result
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah, I'm aware. I am currently in an optimization phase so to speak. This "merging" part is not super critical, but I found it interesting
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum so we have those guidelines to work with. How do we focus this into our room?
 
2:54 PM
@hilli_micha first - thanks. I don't think I was self flagettating at all, I didn't say anything was our fault at any part. I generally believe in defusing situations and having discussions calmly.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That would make a set of iterators
You didn't spread
 
@MadaraUchiha right, my bad
 
Kicking quickly only led to the fiasco in the first place, however the topic was prostitution and then later midget porn..
 
23 mins ago, by Madara Uchiha
@OliverSalzburg new Set([...set1, ...set2]) is the cleanest for sure
 
@OliverSalzburg I wonder if it'd just be faster to query multiple sets or a list of sets - since it's only constructed and queried for a short while it might be easier to create a facade over sets like a CompositeSet or something like that - or avoid ES sets altogether and communicate the interface with types (assuming TypeScirpt)
 
2:55 PM
It's like a rock and a hardplace, and I know that if we take the safe route of "just don't talk about obviously sensitive stuff" people here will be pissed.
 
@SterlingArcher at least for a while
@MadaraUchiha we never disagreed
 
:/
 
No, it can't be a bandaid we either need to have the surgery or it's going to kill us
 
@SterlingArcher meh, I mean it's really not the place to talk about obviously sensitive stuff
we already veer away from political and religious topics for the same reason
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Now, that would definitely call for proper analysis first :D I didn't want to get that deep into it
 
2:56 PM
Which is fine! We just need to make that decision, and stick to it
 
@SterlingArcher midget porn? I don't recall that
 
TRIGGERED
 
I mean I'm a super open dude, love to talk about everything and hate any censorship, but this place, well it's not the place for those talks I suppose.
 
And it will mean alienating a couple friends who disagree
 
@SterlingArcher no you must be welcoming at all costs /s
 
2:57 PM
yeah, there are other places we can chat about shenanigans if we want as well
@KendallFrey lmao
 
It's gotta be one of these: go to another place all together, make this room gallery, or just stop all sensitive topics
 
yeah what about not being welcoming to the unwelcome head explodes
 
I'm willing to make that concession, and it sounds like we need a vote
 
@Ikari I disagree.
I think there's a balance to be found.
It's just not very easy to find it.
 
Unless I'm so far behind on github that there is already a vote on off-topic nature?
 
2:58 PM
@Loktar some classical philosophers say that tolerant societies must remain intolerant of intolerance in order to remain tolerant societies
I disagree, personally
 
I think there will be those who contribute less over time
 
@OliverSalzburg it's entirely possible it'll be fastest to just make the facade, I just checked and V8 doesn't do this for you - it's actually an easy optimization to make on their side afaict
 
@SterlingArcher There was a suggestion to make the room a gallery, I vetoed it for... reasons.
 
I just think we need to reel back on stuff like (removed)
 
@TylerH yeah it's just who determines what is tolerant?
 
2:59 PM
@MadaraUchiha You didn't veto it, you said so - but what actually happened is that you objected to it. We just like you enough to not pursue it if you feel so strongly about it.
 
@Loktar the people with the biggest sticks
 
aye
 
This room is a resource people at work use and work isn't the best place for unfettered philosophy about sensitive subjects.
 
^
 
@TylerH I'm surprised a Philosoraptor image macro doesn't already exist addressing that
I've paraded that flag a few times now
 

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